NFL Week 3

[backrow]

Chris Cooley with his first career carry, he's become a h-back/fullback now. he also had a nice catch on the first series, while Davis alligator armed a catch over the middle on a third down...

is Doughty injured or did their leading tackler somehow got relegated? He's not inactive...

Sean Lee with a nice tackle for a loss on the 3rd and short goal

 

[Don Wassall]

Doughty backs up Laron Landry, who was injured the first two games but is playing tonight.

 

[Pie]

Sean Lee is a lot of fun to watch. Just got a tackle for a loss and deflected a pass on the next play(nearly an int). He's a really fast thinker on top of being a good athlete, there's zero lag time between a runner choosing a lane, or the ball being thrown and him reacting to it. He has more tackles than anyone else on the team because by the time the affletes figure out whats going on and decide to move he's already on the way.

 

[Pie]

And Sean Lee with the pick

 

[backrow]

Doughty backs up Laron Landry, who was injured the first two games but is playing tonight.

i just thought he would jump over to free safety since Landry is back. i thought wrong.

so far, a pretty boring game from our point of view.

EDIT i seemed to have missed Lee's interception!

Ryan Kerrigan with a sack + forced fumble!

 

[Don Wassall]

Kerrigan has had three straight big games as a rookie. Lee is a beast like Angerer, at least the announcers are giving him some recognition unlike Angerer who was ignored.

 

[Jack Lambert]

Romo's playing through the pain of his injury tonight, and being a true warrior out there, and yet he's getting no help from his WRs. John Gruden just mentioned Romo's WRs don't know the Cowboy's offense. Don't you get paid millions of dollars to know your team's offense?

 

[Pie]

Romo's playing through the pain of his injury tonight, and being a true warrior out there, and yet he's getting no help from his WRs. John Gruden just mentioned Romo's WRs don't know the Cowboy's offense. Don't you get paid millions of dollars to know your team's offense?

I feel bad for Jason Witten, too. He's getting double teamed since none of those receivers have a clue and aren't even threats to line up on the right side of the field, much less catch a ball. Witten could be having a monster game, but is stuck having a merely decent one so far(6-60).

That Martellus Bennett is a total waste of space and pass attempts. Can't block, can't run, can't catch, can't line up, and no hustle.

 

[backrow]

this doesn't count as a sack for Kerrigan?

 

[Deadlift]

Don...I think there will be another wave of black quoatabacks like we saw in 1999. The spread in college has made it alot easier to play the position and it seems 30-40% of programs start a black QB unfortunately. Hopefully Newton cools off once teams get enough tape on him, but this is a copy cat league. DWFs are hyping guys like Griffin, Boyd, Logan Thomas and EJ Manuel. I do not think they will be successful but that doesn't mean that won't get more than their fair share of chances. I do however think there are enough talented white QBs coming up through the college ranks to fend off this next wave.

The reemergence (if you want to call it that) of white skill position players has been encouraging. Things have gotten better in the past 5 or so years. White TEs are again in abundance and showing their play making prowess.

You make some great points. Unless Matt Barkley and Landry Jones enter the Draft early, it appears that very few White QBs will even be in this draft. Andrew Luck, Case Keenum and Nick Foles (a huge bust this season). Brandon Weeden is hurt by being 28 and Ryan Tannehill is too raw to QB in the NFL.

On the black front, Robert Griffin and Russell Wilson will be force-fed into the NFL. However, that's not necessarily going to be the case with Tahj Boyd, Logan Thomas, E.J. Manuel, B.J. Daniels, Robert Bolden, Jacory Harris, Geno Smith, Chris Relf and Morgan Newton. NOTE: Logan Thomas is unproven, and will be facing tougher competition soon.--

 

[Deadlift]

Would have been nice to see Shanahan start out 3-0 to contrast with McNabb's 0-3...

 

[Leonardfan]

Deadlift...I don't think Wilson will be force fed into the NFL, he does not have the size to play the position. He is probably 5'10. I do agree on Robert Griffin though. What really bothers me in college is when USC gets the 2nd and third rated pro style (white qbs) to both commit. I wish one would leave and go elsewhere.

 

[Leonardfan]

At least the offensive explosion of the first two weeks seems to have slowed some in week 3 with defensive coordinators getting game tape on qbs and players getting into "game shape". Hopefully Newton's performance continues to decline throughout the season.

 

[Highlander]

You make some great points. Unless Matt Barkley and Landry Jones enter the Draft early, it appears that very few White QBs will even be in this draft. Andrew Luck, Case Keenum and Nick Foles (a huge bust this season). Brandon Weeden is hurt by being 28 and Ryan Tannehill is too raw to QB in the NFL.

Don't forget Kellen Moore and hopefully Dan Persa returns soon and has a great second half of the season.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

I was just checking the "info spin" on Yahooligan.WhiteRivalsSports.com: The Sport Exchange is already plugging Ridley to get most of the carries- mentioning his strong pre-season (Woodhead had one too) and a 9 carry game where he averaged over 6 YPC. They called Woodhead and Lawfirm "ineffective". Woodhead is locked into the Kevin Faulk role. If anything, Ridley should cut into Lawfirm's playing time, as he is more of a bigger powerback, if he continues to outperform Lawfirm. Let's hope for a fair outcome here.

Rotowire combined the statistics of Lawfirm and Woodhead when stating their "ineffectiveness" this past game. That's not really fair b/c Lawfirm averaged 1.8 YPC last game and Woodhead almost doubled his average at 3.5. Still, this was possibly the worst game of Woodhead's career, but it is just 1 GAME!

Hardesty had a pretty good game, seeing extensive action in the NFL for the first time against the Dolphins. Of note: Woodhead and Lawfirm both averaged 4.9 YPC week one against what looks like a below average Dolphin D. Hardesty averaged 4.8. Hardesty is at 3.9 YPC on the season. Hardesty also had Pashos back for this game did he not? This ONE GAME in no way proves that Hardesty is better than beastly fan favourite Peyton Hillis (it would be ridiculous to start anything more than a 2/3 to 1/3 carry split and even that is overboard a bit IMO), but I fear Shurmur might turn out to be the white Hatie Smith.

Some media outlets mentioning that Hillis is overworked etc. when he is averaging 3.4 YPC "IN JUST 2 GAMES" with some offensive struggles for the Browns early on. Meanwhile high paid, or media/ DWF darling starters- Rashard Mendenhall, Jahvid Best, Frank Gore and Chris Johnson are ALL averaging 3 YPC or less. Marshawn Lynch is averaging 3.1 YPC, Shonn Greene is averaging 3.3, Matt Forte is averaging 3.4. Willis McGahee, who has been pushed into a starting role in Denver due to Knoshow's injury, is also averaging less than 3 YPC.

Are fans really too stupid to notice how much harsher the media treats white athletes? Unfortunately I think most are, but more are waking up!

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

I'm glad you guys mentioned the whining of James Jones. The proof of this was that Gruden mentioned that he was pushing to get on the field. He stated that someone was going to lose out with all the play makers the Packers have.

Jones should keep his mouth shut, because the best two outside WRs on the team are Jennings and Nelson who are neck and neck. Also Randall Cobb looks like a very intriguing and elusive slot prospect. Driver has some gas left in the tank, but he isn't as good as Jennings or Nelson at this point either.

The Packers should have kept Swain over overpaying for Jones for the sake of team chemistry!

 

[foobar75]

I agree with the previous points made by Don and ES, among others. Yes, there's good progress relatively speaking in the WR and non-existent RB numbers compared to the 90s. At a minimum, these numbers should hold steady and not decline. Ideally, we'd like to see them go higher, even if it's by a small margin each year.

But then, there's another problem facing the white skill players that needs to be tackled, and I'm not sure how that will happen. It seems that such a player who puts up numbers that are too good for more than 1-2 games will immediately draw the voices of discontent from within his own teammates. It happend to Collie last year after back-to-back spectacular games against HOU and DEN, and when Reggie Wayne made his displeasure known, Collie's targets promptly went down, he was then moved to the slot upon Garcon's return, and suffered a couple concussions which prematurely ended what could've been a superb year. The same thing is happening to Jordy Nelson this year after just one game.

It seems that coaches want to keep the racial harmony in check within the locker room and not upset the black players too much, so if a White WR or RB has too good a game or two, his production will immediately be scaled back instead of doing the common sense thing and continuing to feed the hot hand. The only player I can think of who appears to have transcended all of this is Wes Welker. And Hillis sort of got that last year, however this season has not gotten off to the best start, and I'm sure we'll all be monitoring that one closely.

So, in summary, I'd like to see the next step, where if a White RB or WR has more than 1 good game, he continues to get support from his teammates and coaches the same way black players get it. No one would ever cut back Adrian Peterson or Andre Johnson's touches, why should Hillis or Jordy be any different? Baby steps, I guess.

 

[bigunreal]

I Found the following curious, semi-conspiracy theory on a mainstream web site:

http://www.faniq.com/blog/Hillis-sickness-causes-suspicion-in-Cleveland-camp-Blog-40234

I have my own suspicions about this, which probably doesn't surprise people here. The whole "strep throat" thing seems odd, and frankly I don't buy the story they're selling. What's even more incredible is the fact that the fantasy web sites are saying Hillis "should" be ready to play in week 4. Is there any rational reason on earth why there should be a microcosm of doubt about this? Or are we going to be treated to the spectre of a pro athlete missing TWO games because of a minor illness that shuts down the average elementary school student for a couple of days?

I would love to hear some strong words of support for Hillis from Shurmur. I want to hear something like "Peyton is our starter and workhorse- we really need him back." Instead, the only thing I've heard is that they're "hopeful" he will be ready in week 4 and, of course, how happy they were with Hardesty's performance.

 

[Riddlewire]

Don't forget Kellen Moore and hopefully Dan Persa returns soon and has a great second half of the season.

Chandler Harnish will be in the draft and should be one of the top five QBs taken. If we're to take NFL teams at their word, he should be #2. He possesses the combination of all the attributes they look for. He's an experienced winner, he has a strong arm, he's accurate, he's acceptably tall (an advantage over Moore), he's an incredibly talented runner, and he plays in a mostly pro-style offense.
Kirk Cousins will also be in the draft and NFL teams have historically been fond of Michigan State players.
Collaros will most likely be a free agent signee, unless he has a monster season (and he's actually looking very good so far).
Before Hoke bolted for Michigan, it appeared that Ryan Lindley would be considered a lock for the top five QBs taken. Very experienced, tall, not mistake-prone, pro-style offense. No clue where his season is going to end up now.
Austin Davis at Southern Miss has had a draft-worthy career. He has a good TD:Int ratio, a strong arm, excellent mobility, and is having a great senior season (with the exception of a strange hiccup at Marshall).
Ryan Mallett was victimized by a massive smear campaign last year (most rumors suggest it was conducted by Gabbert's draft team) and I expect the same thing to happen this year to Stephen Garcia. However, in Garcia's case, I'm not sure you actually have to put much effort into a smear campaign. He actually DOES have serious character concerns. But he's been relatively successful, he's a big body with good athleticism, and he has those 9 years of college experience under his belt (seriously, this guy has been at SCar since tear-away jerseys were popular).


Yes, the black quarterbacks will be artificially inflated in the draft. Griffin is the NFL's "dream" player. He won't go over Luck, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if he went second. I said weeks ago that Wilson might go #1. That was contingent upon Luck having a down year, which I don't think will happen now. But a top three of Luck-Griffin-Wilson seems highly possible.
Geno Smith will likley turn his one year in Holgorsen's offense into a big payday. The NFL loves those West Virginia black quarterbacks, even if they suck once they get to the league.
I have no idea about Relf. If the NFL is indeed trying to transform itself into a "running spread" league, then he would be a top candidate for them. He's not particularly good at anything, but he's very hard to tackle. That wouldn't seem to be enough to put him in the top ten QBs, though.
Surprisingly, the one black quarterback I would consider worth drafting isn't actually getting much attention. Probably because he's not much of a runner. Dominique Davis of East Carolina had a great 2010 season and is on the same path this year. However, he was one of the QBs I featured in my Voodoo Mathematics thread, so I have to concede that he actually piles up statistics against inferior competition.


Overall I think the white QB draft class is better than most people realize (don't forget the FCS QBs). And the black QB draft class is too top heavy, with just a couple of top picks and a bunch of garbage underneath.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

Well, I notice Rotowire took down the blurb with combined stats of Lawfirm and Woodhead from the Bill's game. From looking around the web it still seems like media outlets are being harder on Hillis and Woodhead than their black peers.

As far as black quarterbacks, I agree with RW that Russell Wilson will be force fed as a QB into the NFL even though he's very undersized, but it will probably be in round 2 or 3- not round one. Of course there is a possibility he could have a Flutie like impact- we'll have to see how this pans out. Robert Griffin could go in the 1st round and E.J Manuel will probably go in the mid rounds. Denard Robinson was listed as a WR by NFLdraftscout. He's extremely fast, quick and elusive. I think Taylor Martinez might be best utilized as a RB or WR at the next level too- as he has similar freak athletic ability to Robinson.

 

[dwid]

I was just checking the "info spin" on Yahooligan.WhiteRivalsSports.com: The Sport Exchange is already plugging Ridley to get most of the carries- mentioning his strong pre-season (Woodhead had one too) and a 9 carry game where he averaged over 6 YPC. They called Woodhead and Lawfirm "ineffective". Woodhead is locked into the Kevin Faulk role. If anything, Ridley should cut into Lawfirm's playing time, as he is more of a bigger powerback, if he continues to outperform Lawfirm. Let's hope for a fair outcome here.

Rotowire combined the statistics of Lawfirm and Woodhead when stating their "ineffectiveness" this past game. That's not really fair b/c Lawfirm averaged 1.8 YPC last game and Woodhead almost doubled his average at 3.5. Still, this was possibly the worst game of Woodhead's career, but it is just 1 GAME!

Well, I think they are working too much on the passing game and neglecting the running game, the blocking hasn't been that good and the run plays haven't been that creative besides one or two in the first game, so a bigger back like Ridley is able to break a few more tackles and have a little more success. I can't say that I blame them, they haven't been able to commit to the run, they have had to throw for around 400 yards 3 or 4 tds just to stay in games. Another thing to remember is the Bills were probably poed that Woodhead carved them up every time he got the ball last year, so probably more focused on stopping him, there was a play where an afflete body slammed him into the ground.

Woodhead hasn't had many receptions either, but what they seem to be doing is stretching teams vertically waiting for them to try and stop them, instead of the short dink and dunking with the guys getting yac (at least from the game I watched last Sunday). The msm keeps mentioning the pass that bounced out of his hands for an interception, it was way out of his reach and he barely got his hands on it. If it were an afflete they would've said it was Brady's fault but since its a White guy its "you gotta catch those".

They haven't been able to slow down Gronkowski and Welker, and both have been used more on vertical routes than horizontal. Id imagine as the season goes on teams will put extra men deep to defend these kinds of plays at all costs, which will open up the underneath stuff, the short passes and running.

But the positive way to look at this is that this time last year Woodhead had 42 yards, right now he is at 143 yards from scrimmage, which he didn't get until the 5th game against the Ravens. Granted his ypc is down but it is still above 4 ypc, a few big plays could knock it up to 5. He had 4 games last year where he averaged 3 ypc or less and still came out with a 5.6 ypc.

Of course Ridley would eat into Lawfirm's carries. The only thing he has been effective on is play action sucking defenders up close to the los, but Brady was able to chuck it deep even when they stopped respecting the run. One thing I didn't get was that Lawfirm was used more on snaps that Woodhead usually gets (shotgun), and Woodhead was getting runs that Lawfirm usually gets. Not sure what Bellicheck was trying to accomplish there, Woodhead has shown he can run out of any formation but Lawfirm hasn't been effective out of shotgun.

As far as Hardesty, like I posted before, he wasn't facing 8 in the box like Hillis was the past few games and had some nice creases to run through. Not every play of course but it was more holes to run through than what Hillis had in the first two games combined. Hopefully the line can continue this improvement when he gets back.

 

[FootballDad]

The Patriot's problem certainly is NOT their offense, it's their afflete-infested defense. For every good play by Ninkovich or Fletcher, there are a dozen screw-ups by the abysmal secondary and the wheezing Fatso Brothers, Wilfork and Haynesworth.

 

[Leonardfan]

Chandler Harnish will be in the draft and should be one of the top five QBs taken. If we're to take NFL teams at their word, he should be #2. He possesses the combination of all the attributes they look for. He's an experienced winner, he has a strong arm, he's accurate, he's acceptably tall (an advantage over Moore), he's an incredibly talented runner, and he plays in a mostly pro-style offense.
Kirk Cousins will also be in the draft and NFL teams have historically been fond of Michigan State players.
Collaros will most likely be a free agent signee, unless he has a monster season (and he's actually looking very good so far).
Before Hoke bolted for Michigan, it appeared that Ryan Lindley would be considered a lock for the top five QBs taken. Very experienced, tall, not mistake-prone, pro-style offense. No clue where his season is going to end up now.
Austin Davis at Southern Miss has had a draft-worthy career. He has a good TD:Int ratio, a strong arm, excellent mobility, and is having a great senior season (with the exception of a strange hiccup at Marshall).
Ryan Mallett was victimized by a massive smear campaign last year (most rumors suggest it was conducted by Gabbert's draft team) and I expect the same thing to happen this year to Stephen Garcia. However, in Garcia's case, I'm not sure you actually have to put much effort into a smear campaign. He actually DOES have serious character concerns. But he's been relatively successful, he's a big body with good athleticism, and he has those 9 years of college experience under his belt (seriously, this guy has been at SCar since tear-away jerseys were popular).


Yes, the black quarterbacks will be artificially inflated in the draft. Griffin is the NFL's "dream" player. He won't go over Luck, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if he went second. I said weeks ago that Wilson might go #1. That was contingent upon Luck having a down year, which I don't think will happen now. But a top three of Luck-Griffin-Wilson seems highly possible.
Geno Smith will likley turn his one year in Holgorsen's offense into a big payday. The NFL loves those West Virginia black quarterbacks, even if they suck once they get to the league.
I have no idea about Relf. If the NFL is indeed trying to transform itself into a "running spread" league, then he would be a top candidate for them. He's not particularly good at anything, but he's very hard to tackle. That wouldn't seem to be enough to put him in the top ten QBs, though.
Surprisingly, the one black quarterback I would consider worth drafting isn't actually getting much attention. Probably because he's not much of a runner. Dominique Davis of East Carolina had a great 2010 season and is on the same path this year. However, he was one of the QBs I featured in my Voodoo Mathematics thread, so I have to concede that he actually piles up statistics against inferior competition.


Overall I think the white QB draft class is better than most people realize (don't forget the FCS QBs). And the black QB draft class is too top heavy, with just a couple of top picks and a bunch of garbage underneath.

Riddle, glad you mentioned the FCS QBs. I think alot of very good QBs who are overlooked at the FBS level will go to these smaller schools and get quality reps and coaching. I came to this conclusion the year Flacco was drafted. Delaware has also produced pro prospects Pat Devlin and Andy Hall in the past 8 or so years.

I do have to disagree with Wilson though. I still think teams will drop him due to his size. He is not a "specimen" like DWFs fans like. I think Geno Smith is a product of the WVU offense just like Pat White and Jarret Brown. Neither of them panned out. Holgersen's offense has not produced a top flight QB during his time as OC anywhere in his career. Relf won't be drafted as a QB, he is garbage. He might be drafted later as a TE convert prospect.

Stephen Garcia is not a good QB, he has no shot at being drafted.

My QB rankings for the 2012 draft:
1. Andrew Luck 1st Round
2. Landry Jones 1st Round
3. Matt Barkley 1st Round
4. Nick Foles 2nd Round
5. Ryan Tannehill 3rd Round
6. Kirk Cousins 4th Round
7. Ryan Lindley 5th Round
8. Brandon Weeden 6th Round
9. Chandler Harnish 6th Round
10. Kellen Moore 6th Round
11. John Brantley 7th Round

Overall a pretty solid group. Like I said before I would prefer to have Barkley and Jones stay in school for another year. It always helps having good white talented QBs in every single drop so quoatabacks get devalued each year.

Ideally I would like guys like Landry Jones and Barkley to stay for their Senior years in 2012.

 

[Don Wassall]

Pittsburgh at Houston is a big Caste game for Week 4. It's an important one for the Texans to win as they need to win their division this year with the Colts down or else the conventional wisdom is that there will be big changes in coaching and personnel. Would be great to see Watt, Cushing and Barwin make some big plays against the Steelers and their awful sumo o-line.

 

[Pie]

Pittsburgh at Houston is a big Caste game for Week 4. It's an important one for the Texans to win as they need to win their division this year with the Colts down or else the conventional wisdom is that there will be big changes in coaching and personnel. Would be great to see Watt, Cushing and Barwin make some big plays against the Steelers and their awful sumo o-line.

I fear for Big Ben, I have a feeling that Houston is going to kill him.