NFL Combine

[dwid]

southerland ran a 4.7
and tyrell sutton ran a 4.7
apparently southerland wouldve been fast enough to run the ball in the big 10

oh yeah and sutton is 5'9 190 pounds
southerland is 6'0 and 240 poundsEdited by: dwid

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

Of course 4.55 or 4.63 is alright for a RB and he is the best RB in THIS class. But you know as well as me that this time is similar to jacob hester last year and noboby is going to call moreno a tweener

Good point. It's too bad Hester doesn't have a slimmer build like Moreno so they won't make him a primary blocker. But then again he might not have an NFL career at all if that was the case; unless he dropped a tenth or more off his 40 time. Hester's a great HB. He doesn't have the agility of a guy like Moreno, but he has equal burst and more power, never fumbles and is very versatile as a pass catcher and pass blocker.

I wonder if a Rex Burkhead comparison would work to Moreno. Rex is one of the most agile guys I've ever seen (similar agility wise to McGuffie too), but probably won't test out much better at the Combine than Moreno. You could also compare Rex to a bigger Brian Westbrook or a Wes Welker playing RB.

Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins

 

[Gi-15]

here are this years big back 40's

Beanie Wells : 4.57, 4.54
Shonn Greene : 4.65, 4.63
Rashad Jennings : 4.49, 4.62

I'll be waiting for the tweener talks. Looks like those guys will be waiting 2 years behind established stars in the 3rd RB / 2 FB role. Oh wait a second...

 

[dwid]

Of course 4.55 or 4.63 is alright for a RB and he is the best RB in THIS class. But you know as well as me that this time is similar to jacob hester last year and noboby is going to call moreno a tweener

Good point. It's too bad Hester doesn't have a slimmer build like Moreno so they won't make him block. But then again he might not have an NFL career at all if that was the case; unless he dropped a tenth or more off his 40 time. Hester's a great HB. He doesn't have the agility of a guy like Moreno, but he has equal burst and more power, never fumbles and is very versatile as a pass catcher and blocker.

I wonder if a Rex Burkhead comparison would work for Moreno. Rex is one of the most agile guys I've ever seen (similar agility wise to McGuffie too), but probably won't test out much better at the Combine than Moreno. You could also compare Rex to a bigger Brian Westbrook or a Wes Welker playing RB.

Hester and Moreno have pretty similiar builds

http://pbrown16.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/uga-moreno.jpg

[url]http://www.lsutaf.org/images/tigerland_news/article_photos/l arge/333049528470b8904a37fc.jpg [/url]

Hester has a decent amount of agility and definetly more power, good vision. Hester did was about 20 pounds heavier than Moreno is so that could have affected his speed drills.
Edited by: dwid

 

[Gi-15]

a lot of Hester's weight is in his "bubble" (lower body)
I agree that they have a similar upper body

 

[dwid]

Yeah Hester has incredible leg strength, probably most where he gets all the power from and why he is a stronger more powerful runner than Moreno. but i guess that power can be used against him to block, except nobody is asking the powerbacks that ran above 4.5 in this draft to block.Edited by: dwid

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

So we got a 4.56 for Wells if you round 4.555 up. We've got a 4.64 for Greene and a 4.56 for Jennings. The unofficial times are often a little faster too; so this might get a little worse. Expect a 4.61 average or so for Moreno (identical to Hester) and a 4.58 (identical to Hillis) or so for Wells; the two top backs. Tailback Brian Leonard blew these guys away with a 4.49/4.52 40 yard; oh I forgot he's a FB.

 

[dwid]

If Shonn Greene is getting a decent amount of carries next year i will be pist. Hester is definetly more athletic than him and a better prospect at HB. While doing the Andy Brodell highlights I saw great blocking for Greene and very good blocking for him downfield by the receivers. I feel i could make a legit argument that Iowa had some of the best runblocking linemen in the nation. Not to take anything away from Greene he is good, but a 4.7 guy could've gotten similiar stats at Iowa if he had good vision.

And i think Hillis would rank right up there with the top 3 prospects.Edited by: dwid

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

Of course 4.55 or 4.63 is alright for a RB and he is the best RB in THIS class. But you know as well as me that this time is similar to jacob hester last year and noboby is going to call moreno a tweener

Good point. It's too bad Hester doesn't have a slimmer build like Moreno so they won't make him block. But then again he might not have an NFL career at all if that was the case; unless he dropped a tenth or more off his 40 time. Hester's a great HB. He doesn't have the agility of a guy like Moreno, but he has equal burst and more power, never fumbles and is very versatile as a pass catcher and blocker.

I wonder if a Rex Burkhead comparison would work for Moreno. Rex is one of the most agile guys I've ever seen (similar agility wise to McGuffie too), but probably won't test out much better at the Combine than Moreno. You could also compare Rex to a bigger Brian Westbrook or a Wes Welker playing RB.

Hester and Moreno have pretty similiar builds

http://pbrown16.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/uga-moreno.jpg

[url]http://www.lsutaf.org/images/tigerland_news/article_photos/l arge/333049528470b8904a37fc.jpg [/url]

Hester has a decent amount of agility and definetly more power, good vision. Hester did was about 20 pounds heavier than Moreno is so that could have affected his speed drills.

Hester's agility is certainly as good or better than at least 1/3 of the guys that are 1st and 2nd team NFL RBs. For a powerful NFL tailback Hester is somewhere in the middle of the pack for agility for guys who get PT actually. It's his burst and power that really set him apart as well as his reliable ball security; plus he's a good pass catcher.

Hillis seems a bit more agile than Hester to me, but doesn't have quite the ten yard burst. Hillis needs to lose 15 lbs. to make a statement.

Edited to add: Actually both Hillis and Hester, I think, are better than Leonard as tailback prospects, despite less top-end speed. If you were going to compare Leonard to Hillis; close in agility, Leonard better top-end speed. But Hillis has much better vision, better power and equal burst and just seems like more of a player.Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins

 

[dwid]

Of course 4.55 or 4.63 is alright for a RB and he is the best RB in THIS class. But you know as well as me that this time is similar to jacob hester last year and noboby is going to call moreno a tweener

Good point. It's too bad Hester doesn't have a slimmer build like Moreno so they won't make him block. But then again he might not have an NFL career at all if that was the case; unless he dropped a tenth or more off his 40 time. Hester's a great HB. He doesn't have the agility of a guy like Moreno, but he has equal burst and more power, never fumbles and is very versatile as a pass catcher and blocker.

I wonder if a Rex Burkhead comparison would work for Moreno. Rex is one of the most agile guys I've ever seen (similar agility wise to McGuffie too), but probably won't test out much better at the Combine than Moreno. You could also compare Rex to a bigger Brian Westbrook or a Wes Welker playing RB.

Hester and Moreno have pretty similiar builds

http://pbrown16.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/uga-moreno.jpg

[url]http://www.lsutaf.org/images/tigerland_news/article_photos/l arge/333049528470b8904a37fc.jpg [/url]

Hester has a decent amount of agility and definetly more power, good vision. Hester did was about 20 pounds heavier than Moreno is so that could have affected his speed drills.

Hester's agility is certainly as good or better than at least 1/3 of the guys that are 1st or 2nd team NFL RBs. For a powerful NFL tailback Hester is somewhere in the middle of the pack for agility for guys who get PT actually. It's his burst and power that really set him apart as well as his reliable ball security; plus he's a good pass catcher.

Hillis seems a bit more agile than Hester to me, but doesn't have quite the ten yard burst. Hillis needs to lose 15 lbs. to make a statement.

Edited to add: Actually both Hillis and Hester, I think, are better than Leonard as tailback prospects, despite less top-end speed. If you were going to compare Leonard to Hillis; close in agility, Leonard better top-end speed. But Hillis has much better vision, better power and equal burst and just seems like more of a player.

Not impressed with Hillis's 10 yard burst? I thought he had great intial burst, he's patient waits for a hole and explodes right through it (that sounds dirty haha). Just go back and look at that touchdown run against Atlanta. He definetly has more agility than Hester but thats not to say Hester isnt agile, i think Hillis has more agility than alot of backs playing, which is impressive when you look at his size. Remember that catch where he tippy toes on the sidelines to get the first down. Very light on his feet for such a big power runner.
I am not that familiar with Leonard and have only seen a few highlights so i cant really analyze him.Edited by: dwid

 

[Gi-15]

Here are the official top 10 RB 40.

that's a slow year.


Peerman, Cedric4.45
Johnson, Ian4.46
Sheets, Kory4.47
Brown, Andre4.49
Brown, Donald4.51
Williams, Javarris4.52
Goodson, Mike4.54
Scott, Bernard4.56
Coffee, Glen4.58
Lucky, Marlon4.59
Wells, Beanie4.59

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

If Shonn Greene is getting a decent amount of carries next year i will be pist. Hester is definetly more athletic than him and a better prospect at HB. While doing the Andy Brodell highlights I saw great blocking for Greene and very good blocking for him downfield by the receivers. I feel i could make a legit argument that Iowa had some of the best runblocking linemen in the nation. Not to take anything away from Greene he is good, but a 4.7 guy could've gotten similar stats at Iowa if he had good vision.

And i think Hillis would rank right up there with the top 3 prospects.

That's a close call between Hester and Greene athletic wise. But Greene had ridiculous stats. I know Iowa's great blocking made him look much better, but still his stats were crazy good. I am just dreaming about what Wegher will do next year with most of the top blockers back (that is if they play him).

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

Wow, only 7 RBs under 4.55. That's a very slow year. But these guys will still be hailed as superstars. I am sure Draftdaddy.com will elude to something about this fact.

 

[dwid]

You have to remember Hester was splitting carries with keiland williams, Charles Scott, and one other back i forget who it was, but it wasnt too many carries and he still got over 1,000 yards in the SEC.Edited by: dwid

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

Of course 4.55 or 4.63 is alright for a RB and he is the best RB in THIS class. But you know as well as me that this time is similar to jacob hester last year and noboby is going to call moreno a tweener

Good point. It's too bad Hester doesn't have a slimmer build like Moreno so they won't make him block. But then again he might not have an NFL career at all if that was the case; unless he dropped a tenth or more off his 40 time. Hester's a great HB. He doesn't have the agility of a guy like Moreno, but he has equal burst and more power, never fumbles and is very versatile as a pass catcher and blocker.

I wonder if a Rex Burkhead comparison would work for Moreno. Rex is one of the most agile guys I've ever seen (similar agility wise to McGuffie too), but probably won't test out much better at the Combine than Moreno. You could also compare Rex to a bigger Brian Westbrook or a Wes Welker playing RB.

Hester and Moreno have pretty similiar builds

http://pbrown16.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/uga-moreno.jpg

[url]http://www.lsutaf.org/images/tigerland_news/article_photos/l arge/333049528470b8904a37fc.jpg [/url]

Hester has a decent amount of agility and definetly more power, good vision. Hester did was about 20 pounds heavier than Moreno is so that could have affected his speed drills.

Hester's agility is certainly as good or better than at least 1/3 of the guys that are 1st or 2nd team NFL RBs. For a powerful NFL tailback Hester is somewhere in the middle of the pack for agility for guys who get PT actually. It's his burst and power that really set him apart as well as his reliable ball security; plus he's a good pass catcher.

Hillis seems a bit more agile than Hester to me, but doesn't have quite the ten yard burst. Hillis needs to lose 15 lbs. to make a statement.

Edited to add: Actually both Hillis and Hester, I think, are better than Leonard as tailback prospects, despite less top-end speed. If you were going to compare Leonard to Hillis; close in agility, Leonard better top-end speed. But Hillis has much better vision, better power and equal burst and just seems like more of a player.

Not impressed with Hillis's 10 yard burst? I thought he had great intial burst, he's patient waits for a hole and explodes right through it (that sounds dirty haha). Just go back and look at that touchdown run against Atlanta. He definetly has more agility than Hester but thats not to say Hester isnt agile, i think Hillis has more agility than alot of backs playing, which is impressive when you look at his size. Remember that catch where he tippy toes on the sidelines to get the first down. Very light on his feet for such a big power runner.
I am not that familiar with Leonard and have only seen a few highlights so i cant really analyze him.

Never said I wasn't impressed with Hillis's ten yard burst. It's still "at least" average compared to a typical "starting" tailback. But Hester had a 1.5 10 yard time which is in the top 1/4 or so of NFL starters; for his size it's freakishly good. Hester had the same 10 yard time as McFadden actually. Hillis IMO has slightly more natural ability as a runner than Hester if he can lose 15 lbs. or so. He looks a little more agile.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

You have to remember Hester was splitting carries with keiland williams, Charles Scott, and one other back i forget who it was, but it wasnt too many carries and he still got over 1,000 yards in the SEC.

Good point. LSU's offense was good which should have inflated a starters stats a bit, but it was Hester who was used most uncreatively out of the RBs by far from what I saw. They used Hester always in short yardage and up the gut, but usually didn't give him the carries on option plays or trick draw plays; they'd sneak it to the other backs to keep em guessing. Hester would have had a Gerhart, POSSIBLY even a Greene, type yards per carry if he was used better.Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins

 

[dwid]

Yeah, considering that, his 4.9 ypc is impressive. They tried to do that to him in San Diego, give him the ball in garbage time in an obvious running situation, and he still looked good. They did that to a White guy for the Eagles i think it was and he didnt look as good.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

Yeah that would be Eckel. He's not bad, but he's certainly no Hester. Hester looked great in the closing minutes of the Colts game when he just was there to run out the clock with LT out. The whole Colt's D was Mad geared to stop Hester and couldn't!

 

[Mike]

Ian Johnson being biracial aside, the fact that he had dropped to a 7th-round/FA type because of question about his speed shows you how little many of these "experts" know. Frankly I'm happy he put up the numbers he did; it makes the same guys who proliferate the continued inflation of 40 times look ridiculous.

Edit: Surprised nobody here has mentioned Jon Phillips. He had solid numbers overall and comes out of a program known for producing good tight ends. Stock way up in my mind. Edited by: Mike

 

[dwid]

these running back times are stunning the drunk white fans

"But it's clear that Wells isn't a track guy and didn't specifically train to run the forty like some other guys do. "

hahah, they all train to run the 40 and go to special camps because they know the 40 yard dash is an overrated subject. The dwf's dont know what to do now that all the top prospects really dont run these mythical sub 4.3 speeds

 

[dwid]

austin collie, brian hartline and nate swift all did well in the 60 yard shuttle and the 3 cone drill, all coming in the top. I dont know what these drills test specifically, some type of change of direction skill? and hartline did well in the 20 yard shuttle coming in 4thEdited by: dwid

 

[Gi-15]

these running back times are stunning the drunk white fans

"But it's clear that Wells isn't a track guy and didn't specifically train to run the forty like some other guys do. "

hahah, they all train to run the 40 and go to special camps because they know the 40 yard dash is an overrated subject. The dwf's dont know what to do now that all the top prospects really dont run these mythical sub 4.3 speeds

I've been checking out differents forums too, and it's amazing how running a good 40 isn't important for RBs now.

 

[dwid]

yeah its pretty sickening the same people who bashed me for wanting Jacob Hester or Peyton Hillis as a power runner for the Saints for when deuce was gone are now saying 4.59 and 4.6's are okay and good enough speed and still fast. I was laughed at last year by these people for mentioning these two players.

now its "Last time I checked these guys are football players, not track stars."

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

I know it's so ridiculous isn't it. Then these posters will just throw hip wiggle in there. There are many white players with hip-wiggle, but because there is no specific test for it the media will lie in their analysis and the fans will believe it.

More fans have to learn to break down game film and not just believe what that a$$ clown Tom Luginbill and other farce scouts say. I mean calling Sam McGuffie, Brandon Wegher, Rex Burkhead, Tyler Gaffney and Mike Trumpy "straight lined guys" "without the ability to make the second guy miss" is ridiculous. Fans should be able to read right through the lies by now by watching highlights on Youtube!

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

I guess technically the 3-cone and short-shuttle can test hip flexibility and your ability to make cuts and shift momentum. However, fans will never admit that the whites who do well in these drills; and whites generally do just as good if not better among the elite skill players in this drill out of H.S, have loose hips and quality agility.