NFL Week 12
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Santana Moss and Pierre Garcon are above average NFL receivers. What is your explanation for Griffin doing well in his rookie season? Does it have anything to do with talent or is it attributable only to some bigunreal-type conspiracy whereby Griffin isn't actually making accurate throws but rather some secret laser weapon up in space is guiding his throws to receivers.
whiteathlete33
Hall of Famer
Funny, not long ago everyone, including you, was saying Garcon is terrible. Now he's an above average receiver. Why is he doing so well? I don't know. From his numbers you'd have to say he's the best rookie quarterback ever!
My qualifier was "for the NFL" Garcon is an above average receiver. Way to avoid my question about Griffin. If you "don't know," then talent is ruled out, correct? It can only be a conspiracy of some kind then.
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whiteathlete33
Hall of Famer
I certainly don't believe any of Bigunreal's nonsense. I would have to say he's talented but for him to put up the best numbers of any rookie qb in NFL history is too much. Santana Moss doesn't even start anymore. Josh Morgan is below average and I say the same about Garcon who probably has the worst hands in the league. On top of that, he's doing all this with a rookie running back who runs a 4.67 40. Any white back would be the laughing stock of the league with that type of speed and the guy is only 219lbs, not a true powerback.
I don't know how to answer the question. I have never posted anything about conspiracies or fixes. I just can't buy that he's playing this well.
Well, you post every week that you don't believe Griffin is doing what he's doing, so there must be an explanation involved other than that he's talented.
Why not focus more on all the White players who are doing well instead of fixating on Griffin? Newton was the "best rookie QB ever last year" and look at him now. To me it's a symptom of "bigunrealitis" -- constant negativity, constant implying that only some kind of ominous conspiracy can account for what a player is doing if a White one is underperforming to our hopes and a black one is overperforming.
This is a site to cheer on White athletes. It also has a serious purpose. There's room for negativity and light-heartedness, but let's keep our eyes on the agenda and not succumb to bigunrealitis. Not picking on you WA33, sorry if it seems that way but I'm tired of reading the same cynical and ultra-negative stuff from numerous posters.
Why not focus more on all the White players who are doing well instead of fixating on Griffin? Newton was the "best rookie QB ever last year" and look at him now. To me it's a symptom of "bigunrealitis" -- constant negativity, constant implying that only some kind of ominous conspiracy can account for what a player is doing if a White one is underperforming to our hopes and a black one is overperforming.
This is a site to cheer on White athletes. It also has a serious purpose. There's room for negativity and light-heartedness, but let's keep our eyes on the agenda and not succumb to bigunrealitis. Not picking on you WA33, sorry if it seems that way but I'm tired of reading the same cynical and ultra-negative stuff from numerous posters.
sport historian
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"I just don't know how to answer the question. I have never posted anything about conspiracies or fixes. I just can't buy that he's playing this well."
Just what do you mean?
whiteathlete33
Hall of Famer
Sorry .I have called Bigunreal out on his nonsense as well. I do try to focus on the positives, but the white rb situation has taken a step backwards this year. We shouldn't have to wait another 20 years for a white rb to crack 1,000 yards when there are several(Leonard, Hillis, Woodhead, and Gerhart) that are more than capable right now.
The one thing I'm excited about is Hartline finally getting that elusive thousand yard season. As long as he doesn't suffer an injury, it's a given. We could have potentially had ssven whites crack 1,000 receiving yards on the year. Amendola, Decker, Gronkowski, Witten, Hartline,Nelson and Welker. Welker is a lock. Hartline and Witten should be as well.That would have been a record amount. Unfortunately, injuries will prevent that from happening.
Wes Woodhead
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Griffen isnt just "talented" hes the most talented rookie QB of all time. We need to admit that to maintain credibility. None of our kinsmen have ever been as good as the mighty RG3 in their rookie season. Just imagine if he had some good WRs like Welker, Decker, Nelson, Hartline, or Amendola. WOW would he have some numbers then!
Hey sports historian, you seem to know more about football than the rest of us combined. Plus you see things through a pure lens of unbiased, and righteous clearness. Have you EVER seen anybody like this guy in all your decades of studying the sport with total objectivity?
Hey sports historian, you seem to know more about football than the rest of us combined. Plus you see things through a pure lens of unbiased, and righteous clearness. Have you EVER seen anybody like this guy in all your decades of studying the sport with total objectivity?
Whiteathlete33, I'm sorry you have inadvertently been lumped in with me, when you believe my posts are nonsense.
Prior to last season, no rookie QB had ever done the things Scam did. And now we have an even more magical black quarterback in RGIII. His stats are phenomenal for any QB, let alone a rookie. You can ridicule it all you want with mainstream media like derisive references to laser beams, but RGIII's performance is so out of the ordinary for any rookie QB that it does defy rational explanation.
As was noted, his skill position players are awful. He has no real supporting cast. Shanahan is far removed from any offensive brilliance. If his system is so great, why didn't it work for Grossman or Beck? The success of RGIII and Scam contradict everything we thought we knew about overhyped black quarterbacks.
Until last season, it was easy to criticize virtually every black QB; they all had far from impressive stats, and their weaknesses were obvious. Now, we have a black quarterback who is practically turnover free as a rookie. That just never happens. Peyton threw almost 30 interceptions in his ground breaking rookie season. Luck has looked great, but is on target for 20 or more interceptions.
Of course, plenty of black players in the NFL legitimately belong there and can play. I don't think anyone here disputes that (although there are plenty of blacks who don't think any "white boy" belongs in the NFL). If RGIII's unprecedented success is legitimate, I salute him and acknowledge the fact he is superior to every other rookie QB that has come before him.
I'm surprised that questioning the astounding brilliance of the most overhyped black quarterback of all time is seen as controversial here. If we can't express these thoughts here, where could we?
Prior to last season, no rookie QB had ever done the things Scam did. And now we have an even more magical black quarterback in RGIII. His stats are phenomenal for any QB, let alone a rookie. You can ridicule it all you want with mainstream media like derisive references to laser beams, but RGIII's performance is so out of the ordinary for any rookie QB that it does defy rational explanation.
As was noted, his skill position players are awful. He has no real supporting cast. Shanahan is far removed from any offensive brilliance. If his system is so great, why didn't it work for Grossman or Beck? The success of RGIII and Scam contradict everything we thought we knew about overhyped black quarterbacks.
Until last season, it was easy to criticize virtually every black QB; they all had far from impressive stats, and their weaknesses were obvious. Now, we have a black quarterback who is practically turnover free as a rookie. That just never happens. Peyton threw almost 30 interceptions in his ground breaking rookie season. Luck has looked great, but is on target for 20 or more interceptions.
Of course, plenty of black players in the NFL legitimately belong there and can play. I don't think anyone here disputes that (although there are plenty of blacks who don't think any "white boy" belongs in the NFL). If RGIII's unprecedented success is legitimate, I salute him and acknowledge the fact he is superior to every other rookie QB that has come before him.
I'm surprised that questioning the astounding brilliance of the most overhyped black quarterback of all time is seen as controversial here. If we can't express these thoughts here, where could we?
whiteathlete33
Hall of Famer
Bigunreal, you were a great poster for years on this site. I don't know what happened to you. I sure hope you go back to your old ways as the Bigunreal we all enjoyed but it seems unlikely.
Tom Iron
Mentor
Gentlemen, No need to get into aguments about these black players. As I keep saying, at some point they'll do whatever it is they're going to do to louse themselves up. The only unknown factor is just what it is they'll do, or not do. I've been observing these people for years and it's only a matter of time with 98% of them. Yes, every so often you see a black guy like London Fletcher come along, but that doesn't in any way disprove the known stereotype of blacks. It's just the exception to the rule.
Tom Iron...
Tom Iron...
Of course we all agree that Griffin's overhyped. But his stats are what they are. He's the QB of a 5-6 team. What is your "conspiracy theory"? That Griffin's passes are secretly guided by GPS or some other technology controlled from Roger Goodell's office as Griffin is incapable of throwing the ball accurately otherwise? Please answer.
And btw, why is last year's version of Griffin who was so "astoundingly brilliant," Cam Newton, struggling so much this year? Did they turn off the high-tech guidance systems that helped him last season?
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bearclaw500
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One thing I have noticed about RG III, is that he never throws the ball away. When flushed out of the pocket he will sprint to the sidelines and run out of bounds, even if it means taking a 1-2 yard loss, and sometimes a sack. Daunte Culpepper was infamous for this as well. Completion percentage is a big part of the "quarterback rating" and I do think some players actually adjust their game to it. I noticed Matt Schaub get flushed out of the pocket against Detroit 4-5 times and he just chucked the ball out of bounds. If he had run out of bounds for a 2 yard loss, instead of throwing the ball away, he would have a much higher quarterback rating. That does not get factored in. Griffin is talented no doubt, and you cannot deny a QB's total yards and TD's, but I think this completion percentage stuff is overated.
foobar75
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Bigunreal, I find that even though you raise controversial topics and ask the questions, you tend to be very short on answers. I'd love to hear your theory on why RGIII is having this sort of success, and maybe we can debate that.
Do you believe defenses around the league (who are majority black) see one of their own and play less hard in hopes of seeing him do well? How do they coordinate it? Do they secretly get together someplace (minus the few White teammates they have) before the game and then hash out a plan to take it easy on RGIII and his receivers?
Or, are they under orders from the league office to do so? How does the order get relayed to the team without someone blowing the whistle? Is it Goddell -> Head Coach -> Defensive Coordinator, and then the DC will find a way to only tell the black players what to do, since the Whites may not want to be in on the plan? In this particular case, everything would have to be perfectly coordinated, and numerous people have to agree to participate week in/week out.
When you think about the "possibilities", it quickly becomes clear how illogical and irrational this entire matter is.
I prefer to go with the line of reasoning known as Occam's Razor, ie the simplest explanation is often the correct one. In this particular case, RGIII is a good, talented player who is having a good rookie year, his team has a losing record and will not make the playoffs, and we should best wait for years #2 and beyond before judging his staying power and long term prospects at the position.
[Edit: Oops I inadvertently edited this post when I meant to quote it. Nothing in the original post was changed. DW]
Do you believe defenses around the league (who are majority black) see one of their own and play less hard in hopes of seeing him do well? How do they coordinate it? Do they secretly get together someplace (minus the few White teammates they have) before the game and then hash out a plan to take it easy on RGIII and his receivers?
Or, are they under orders from the league office to do so? How does the order get relayed to the team without someone blowing the whistle? Is it Goddell -> Head Coach -> Defensive Coordinator, and then the DC will find a way to only tell the black players what to do, since the Whites may not want to be in on the plan? In this particular case, everything would have to be perfectly coordinated, and numerous people have to agree to participate week in/week out.
When you think about the "possibilities", it quickly becomes clear how illogical and irrational this entire matter is.
I prefer to go with the line of reasoning known as Occam's Razor, ie the simplest explanation is often the correct one. In this particular case, RGIII is a good, talented player who is having a good rookie year, his team has a losing record and will not make the playoffs, and we should best wait for years #2 and beyond before judging his staying power and long term prospects at the position.
[Edit: Oops I inadvertently edited this post when I meant to quote it. Nothing in the original post was changed. DW]
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It was a black defensive player who hit Griffin hard enough that he suffered a mild concussion. It's mostly black players constantly hitting Michael Vick, who loves to whine about it.
I don't see any less effort by defenses when playing against black quarterbacks, which helps, among other factors, to explain the striking lack of success of black QBs.
Bigunreal never has anything to say when Newton has bad games, when Vick's career tanks, or when any black player or black team has a bad game. In fact, he never has anything positive to say about anything. His "conspiracy theory" buffoonery is reserved for when a White player has a bad game or a black QB has a good game. Why aren't black QBs winning most Super Bowls? Bigunreal's "conspiracy theory" is selective paranoia and buffoonery that undermines what we are supposed to be discussing and documenting here, namely the Caste System.
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I've seen plenty of QBs with a 5-6 record.
Jack Lambert
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I agree with you guys. Griffin has talent, and he can hit his wide open WRs on a lot of plays, and can make some hard throws too, and is just having a good rookie campaign. The difference is he's hyped up more than say Matt Schaub or Andrew Luck, so every good play he makes is magnified (what most people have been saying.) Despite what people may say, he's not the best rookie QB ever, and there is no mass effort by the league to blow games to make Griffin look better; if that were the case, than I'm assuming the Redskins would have better than a 5-6 record.
GiovaniMarcon
Mentor
I'm not going to say RGIII is untalented, but I believe that he had greatness thrust upon him rather than creating greatness because he's great.
What I mean is, he gets his chances and also media support and thus conditions are created where in he looks like a worldbeater.
There are certain quarterbacks or players in other positions who simply had an aura of greatness even when they were still young. Brady, Manning, Montana, Marino, etc—they all had that. They were ice cold, cool operators.
In a way I think players such as Manning, Brady, and to a lesser extent youngsters like Luck are throwbacks, in that they seem less fazed by the ridiculous nature of the NFL game today.
If people want to say RGIII is an all-time great before he's even really done anything (and they don't want to accept that a lot of the NFL today is just silly compared to the purer, man's game it was until maybe the mid to late 1980s), then how come they don't want to recognize the K-Brothers as all-time greats in boxing?
Oh, it's because boxing is watered down and there's so much less talent now, and everyone is hyped like they're somebody, when they're really nobody, if they faced real contenders from the 60s-70s-80s, they'd get their a$ses handed to them, etc...
—Yeah, totally unlike the NFL, right?
Or maybe RGIII is actually good (I'll say myself that honestly, Adrian Petersen is GREAT) but media politics paint him better than he is.
Let's say Andrew Luck had exactly RGIII's stats this year. The media would say he's so-so, but not that he's great. They'd focus more on his team's lousy record and that he's not that good a leader and that he takes safe throws.
Look at him from one angle, he's a star, from another, a trainwreck. The media doesn't look at RGIII's trainwreck.
I for one don't mind if he succeeds so long as he has actual ability.
Honestly, I preferred the NBA of the 1980s even if it was actually Blacker than today's NBA, because most athletes back then actually played as a team and most of the stars seemed like legit talents rather than spoiled hype-jobs.
The league can blow air into someone only so long before their own inability causes them to deflate and come back down to earth.
I believe in Caste Football's cause because to me it's obvious that whatever White players there are, are there not because they got puffed up (White players almost NEVER are), but because they've risen on their own.
What I mean is, he gets his chances and also media support and thus conditions are created where in he looks like a worldbeater.
There are certain quarterbacks or players in other positions who simply had an aura of greatness even when they were still young. Brady, Manning, Montana, Marino, etc—they all had that. They were ice cold, cool operators.
In a way I think players such as Manning, Brady, and to a lesser extent youngsters like Luck are throwbacks, in that they seem less fazed by the ridiculous nature of the NFL game today.
If people want to say RGIII is an all-time great before he's even really done anything (and they don't want to accept that a lot of the NFL today is just silly compared to the purer, man's game it was until maybe the mid to late 1980s), then how come they don't want to recognize the K-Brothers as all-time greats in boxing?
Oh, it's because boxing is watered down and there's so much less talent now, and everyone is hyped like they're somebody, when they're really nobody, if they faced real contenders from the 60s-70s-80s, they'd get their a$ses handed to them, etc...
—Yeah, totally unlike the NFL, right?
Or maybe RGIII is actually good (I'll say myself that honestly, Adrian Petersen is GREAT) but media politics paint him better than he is.
Let's say Andrew Luck had exactly RGIII's stats this year. The media would say he's so-so, but not that he's great. They'd focus more on his team's lousy record and that he's not that good a leader and that he takes safe throws.
Look at him from one angle, he's a star, from another, a trainwreck. The media doesn't look at RGIII's trainwreck.
I for one don't mind if he succeeds so long as he has actual ability.
Honestly, I preferred the NBA of the 1980s even if it was actually Blacker than today's NBA, because most athletes back then actually played as a team and most of the stars seemed like legit talents rather than spoiled hype-jobs.
The league can blow air into someone only so long before their own inability causes them to deflate and come back down to earth.
I believe in Caste Football's cause because to me it's obvious that whatever White players there are, are there not because they got puffed up (White players almost NEVER are), but because they've risen on their own.
white is right
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In gambling selective memory is when a gambler remembers big bizarre losses but forgets wins of the same manner. Or you could explain unreals paranoia as something similar to Ahab and the big whale....
white is right
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ROFLMAO.....
NDfootball06
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I wouldn't I'd say Griffin is the best rookie quarterback of all time, I think that's Andrew Luck. To me, lack of turnovers doesn't mean you're a great quarterback, it's that you're not taking chances. You guys know that Lucks average yards per completion is the highest in the league (at least a couple of weeks ago it was), and Griffin is near the bottom. I don't know why the media always say Cam Newton has prototypical NFL quarterback talent. To me, Luck is the most talented rookie QB ever. His grasp of the offense, how he reads defenses, studies game film, his size, speed, and arm strength, etc. Griffin is very talented, but I don't think he can evolve into what Luck is.
white defensive back
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I think it will not bode well for white quarterbacks 20 years from now if Robert Griffin III plays in a rain storm and gets wet or Shanahan feeds him after midnight as then we will have to deal with 6 or more over hyped black quarterbacks in the coming decades. :eyebrows:
Riddlewire
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I don't know why everyone is giving this any thought.
Once Shanahan runs out of "new" college plays to introduce into the Redskins offense, WD40 will come crashing back to Earth. The same thing happened to sCam.
Right now, Washington is running a bunch of Briles-meets-RichRod plays. With new ones showing up every week. There are only so many of those, though. By the end of the season, opposing defensive staffs will have all that stuff on film. They'll chew through it during the offseason and the Redskins will have trouble moving the ball next year. By then, the sports media will have a shiny new toy to play with (Smiff). And the process will start all over again.
Once Shanahan runs out of "new" college plays to introduce into the Redskins offense, WD40 will come crashing back to Earth. The same thing happened to sCam.
Right now, Washington is running a bunch of Briles-meets-RichRod plays. With new ones showing up every week. There are only so many of those, though. By the end of the season, opposing defensive staffs will have all that stuff on film. They'll chew through it during the offseason and the Redskins will have trouble moving the ball next year. By then, the sports media will have a shiny new toy to play with (Smiff). And the process will start all over again.
Leonardfan
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I agree with this assessment completely. Griffin has been pretty good but his one pass to Garcon was completely behind him and Garcon made a good catch and the other deep pass the WR was wide open. These busted coverages won't be around next season. Coordinators will adjust accordingly.
Unfortunatley it looks like its not going to be a wave of black quarterbacks every few years. Their is going to probably be one picked in the first round every year moving forward. The position is well on its way to becoming darker and black quarterbacks will get chance after chance to prove themseleves unlike their white counterparts.
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