White_Savage said:
Gohan:
Neolithic peoples in Europe piled great rocks on top of each other, but no one compares them to Rome. You also have yet to explain why virulently anti-racist historians like Jared Diamond have written long tracts of excuses for why development in Africa and other places lagged so far behind that of Eurasia. (See: Guns, Germs, and Steel.) Why do they not simply site African civilization, if it compares as favorably with Eurasia as you claim?
Come to think of it, modern Haiti and Zimbabwe are alot more advanced in some technological ways than ancient Mali or even ancient Athens-but I don't think even an ancient Athenian slave would prefer living in their cultural clime. Los Angeles, New Orleans, Haiti, Rwanda, South Africa, Somalia...there is a pattern here. (Notice how L.A. DIDN'T go up in flames when O.J. was found innocent of brutally murdering 1 White and 1 Jew, the noticable paucity of looting in various White communities hit by Katrina. For a further example, take Ireland, whose people were oppressed evey bit as much by the British as any group of Africans. Yet today, less than a century after gaining their independence, the Republic of Ireland is a more or less respectable modern state...that can feed itself and everything. Compare this to Liberia, South Africa, etc. Even the "Troubles" in North Ireland are a tame game compared to Rwanda, Zimbabwe, Somalia, South Africa.)
You can offer zero evidence that intelligence is not largely genetic. The American public school system is as close to the experiment in equal oppurtunity as the world has ever yet devised. Every year, thousands of students are run through the mill, getting the same basic curriculum. Blacks invariably fare the worst. Hispanics, surely a group that has faced racial discrimination, and Indians, the most abused racial group in this country's history, fare better than Blacks. Asians, also one of the historically most abused minorities, average BETTER than American Whites.
Your ideas on inter-racial intermarriage are also profoundly misguided. Obviously you haven't heard the old Somali saying "God made Black men, and God made White men, but the Devil made half-breeds". True, done upon occasion, it may produce interesting hybrids, though such children will always be caught between two worlds, the very energy of disparate racial memories threatening to pull them apart.
Done en masse however, it destroys the very well-spring of vaunted diversity. Black people are the least numerous major race on Earth, if I remember correctly. If most Blacks begin to marry aliens, instead of marrying Blacks and having Black children, than your race will soon cease to exist. All that will be left are some White, Hispanic, or Asian people who have a little black in them a few generations back, just as so many White Americans carry a token amount of blood from now vanished Indian tribes.
(Fortunately for Blacks, your homeland in Africa does not seem like it will be over-run by faster-breeding non-Blacks anytime soon. The same cannot be said for any of the lands traditionally occupied by Whites. Come to think of it, no one ever cries foul when Indian or other indigenous tribes, or even the Jews, raise concern about genetic assimulation. Only when Whites do it is it considered "evil racism.)
And quit being so coy and dodging the issue. If anyone of us tried to argue that black dominance of track events were purely the product of social forces, you, as a black, would laugh. Yet you relentlessly argue that the greatest strength of Whites-their creativity and culture over the centuries, is not a special trait of our nature, that any loin-cloth wearing savage the world over could accomplish the same things, if only he had forcibly integrated schools and we could get rid of all this invisible racism you blather about.
You can mince words all you want, but to imagine a race that has all the physical gifts of the Blacks combined with all the mental gifts of the Whites is to imagine a Supreme race by any reasonable standard of superiority or inferiority. But, 'taint nessecarily so McGee, in fact there is not one shred of evidence for the Black average I.Q. being on a par with the average White or Asian I.Q., and tons of evidence against it.
No matter how subtly you or other Blacks put it, Total Black Supremacism is what YOU'RE pushing. Whereas I and my fellow forumites only claim Whites are superior in certain, albeit very societally important, traits.
"You can offer zero evidence that intelligence is not largely genetic. The American public school system is as close to the experiment in equal oppurtunity as the world has ever yet devised. Every year, thousands of students are run through the mill, getting the same basic curriculum. Blacks invariably fare the worst. Hispanics, surely a group that has faced racial discrimination, and Indians, the most abused racial group in this country's history, fare better than Blacks. Asians, also one of the historically most abused minorities, average BETTER than American Whites."
Actually,not all schools are the same.As a matter of fact,inner city schools,where blacks are most likely to attend, are known to be underfunded.Teachers there do not get paid as much as they do in suburban schools,such as the one I go to.However,if you were to put a black kid in to a suburban school from an early age,there is nothing that says his or her grades could be perfectly acceptable and equal to or surpassing that of whites.Since the schools attended by the majority of African american children are not very good,their grades are sure to be low.
Oh,and yes i am aware that part of the reason these schools are not very good may be due to black american cultural aspects.But you cannot ignore the fact that they are underfunded.
I do not see how you managed to get the Native American(i assume thats what you meant when you referred to Indians) statistics.There arent very many of them left,certainly not enough to make a reliable stat sheet out of.
As for hispanics,according to what I learned,and have seen,they tend to do about equally on par with blacks.As for asians,the explaination is simple:Their culture emphasizes academics,and their parents are rather hard on them when they bring home any grade lower than a 90.This would naturally lead to much higher academic standards.I have seen this first hand,as I have many asian friends.
"Neolithic peoples in Europe piled great rocks on top of each other, but no one compares them to Rome. You also have yet to explain why virulently anti-racist historians like Jared Diamond have written long tracts of excuses for why development in Africa and other places lagged so far behind that of Eurasia. (See: Guns, Germs, and Steel.) Why do they not simply site African civilization, if it compares as favorably with Eurasia as you claim?"
That is one mans theory.I have already proven in previous posts that black civilizations at that time actually were on par with those of the northern europeans at that time.While they may not have exactly been quite as imperial as ancient rome or greece,they still were respectable areas in their own right.I am not trying to say they were better.I am simply trying to say they were there and they had some good aspects to them.
"Come to think of it, modern Haiti and Zimbabwe are alot more advanced in some technological ways than ancient Mali or even ancient Athens-but I don't think even an ancient Athenian slave would prefer living in their cultural clime. Los Angeles, New Orleans, Haiti, Rwanda, South Africa, Somalia...there is a pattern here. (Notice how L.A. DIDN'T go up in flames when O.J. was found innocent of brutally murdering 1 White and 1 Jew, the noticable paucity of looting in various White communities hit by Katrina. For a further example, take Ireland, whose people were oppressed evey bit as much by the British as any group of Africans. Yet today, less than a century after gaining their independence, the Republic of Ireland is a more or less respectable modern state...that can feed itself and everything. Compare this to Liberia, South Africa, etc. Even the "Troubles" in North Ireland are a tame game compared to Rwanda, Zimbabwe, Somalia, South Africa.)"
The countries you outline are in the state that they are due to oppressive regimes established by people after the countries gained their independence.Rulers such as Charles Taylor in liberia stole millions of dollars worth of money from the economy.This is all due to the chaos that ensued after these countries gained freedom.Naturally,people struggled to find the right way and which direction to take.They have so far only had independence for about 35 years or so,and are still trying to find the right direction in which to go.
In other words,the chaos that has raged on for 4 decades in africa is a direct result of having new freedoms.Eventually,these countries will stabilize,and move forward.But it will take time.Places such as Nigeria,a country which has seen many bloody battles,now have new leaders determined to end this cycle of fighting.There is even a peacekeeping alliance in west africa now,which was responsible for ending much of the chaos in Liberia.
"True, done upon occasion, it may produce interesting hybrids, though such children will always be caught between two worlds, the very energy of disparate racial memories threatening to pull them apart."
If we try to eliminate all this racial hatred and move toward a time of racial peace,those kids wont have as much to worry about.
"Done en masse however, it destroys the very well-spring of vaunted diversity. Black people are the least numerous major race on Earth, if I remember correctly. If most Blacks begin to marry aliens, instead of marrying Blacks and having Black children, than your race will soon cease to exist. All that will be left are some White, Hispanic, or Asian people who have a little black in them a few generations back, just as so many White Americans carry a token amount of blood from now vanished Indian tribes."
The way you phrase this,one would think that I was saying that only blacks should marry people from another race.In fact,you are missing the picture.I am saying that EVERYONE could intermarry,not just blacks.Hispanics could intermarry with blacks;asians could intermarry with hispanics,etc.
A world in which there are more mixed race marriages cannot be any worse than a world in which separate races constantly bicker with one another.
"(Come to think of it, no one ever cries foul when Indian or other indigenous tribes, or even the Jews, raise concern about genetic assimulation. Only when Whites do it is it considered "evil racism.)"
This is due to the stigma that has risen due to history.Whites wiped out the indians;whites tried to wipe out the jews;whites enslaved blacks,etc.Due to this stigma from the past,people are naturally more likely to assume racism from whites,and will judge them more harshly,especially in a world which is actually attempting to move away from such historical events.
I am not saying it is a good thing,I am simply trying to present a reason for it's occurence.
"And quit being so coy and dodging the issue. If anyone of us tried to argue that black dominance of track events were purely the product of social forces, you, as a black, would laugh. Yet you relentlessly argue that the greatest strength of Whites-their creativity and culture over the centuries, is not a special trait of our nature, that any loin-cloth wearing savage the world over could accomplish the same things, if only he had forcibly integrated schools and we could get rid of all this invisible racism you blather about."
I was not attempting to dodge any issue.As a matter of fact,I have respnded to just about every post in this thread.
Second,you seem very hostile,and you need not be,because I have been nothing but respectful towards you throughout this debate,and I will continue to be.That "loin-cloth wearing savage"
comment was also rude and completely unnecessary.
Third,black dominance on the track may actually be partially cultural:blacks on the whole do not have it quite as good economically as whites do.From the minute they are born,they are surrounded by a grim environment,in which athletics seems to be the only way out.often times,due to the schools that they attend,their only chance for college is in athletics.This could be another reason why blacks have done so well in sports.
On the other hand,however,blacks do not swim very well.This could easily be associated to the fact that there are not many swimming pools located in the areas that they inhabit.
The winter olympics is almost 100 percent white.This could be because most blacks do not have the monetary means to participate in such events as skiing,and certainly not hockey,which is a very expensive hobby.
Also,europeans tend to dominate these event because in places like Norway,the people practically live on skies and other snow equipment.Needless to say,most asian and african peoples do not participate in the activity.
In other words,your theory that african american sports advantages could be socially related is not that far fetched.And no,I am not laughing.
"You can mince words all you want, but to imagine a race that has all the physical gifts of the Blacks combined with all the mental gifts of the Whites is to imagine a Supreme race by any reasonable standard of superiority or inferiority. But, 'taint nessecarily so McGee, in fact there is not one shred of evidence for the Black average I.Q. being on a par with the average White or Asian I.Q., and tons of evidence against it."
Evidence which I have already covered in previous posts.
"No matter how subtly you or other Blacks put it, Total Black Supremacism is what YOU'RE pushing. Whereas I and my fellow forumites only claim Whites are superior in certain, albeit very societally important, traits."
I will say it one more time:I DO NOT SUPPORT RACIAL SUPREMACY,BLACK OR WHITE.
I am not trying to push for black supremacism,and I do not even see how you get that correlation.I am simply trying to disprove your age old white supremacist theory,the same one which has been stated all throughout history:that blacks are not intelligent,and that they are not capable of creating civilization.
As you can see,I have already provided many facts as well as a sizeable amount of information that backs up my logic.
