David Haye: The Great Black Hype

[sport historian]

I've seen both fights, Schmeling in the first bout was all game, he fought toe-to-toe with Louis and outlasted him, destroying him the 12th round.

The 2nd bout is clearly a throw away, Schmeling was clearly bothered by the Nazi propaganda of Aryan supremacy, and did Louis, not to mention all of America (and the Jews) a favor. There's no way a great fighter like him would expose his temple so easily, unless he had some sort of guilty conscience.

Schmeling was around 33 and past his prime. Louis was 24, at his physical best. Schmeling probably knew he couldn't do it again.

 

[white is right]

I tend to not believe conspiracy theories, but this ko was unusually brutal. Only the Dempsey ko was similar in the history of boxing and Dempsey's estranged manager told Sports Illustrated on his death bed about the "loaded gloves". Doc Kearns stated that Dempsey was oblivious to the loaded gloves. Also you asked about how the other camp didn't notice the loaded gloves. When Antonio Margarito fought Miguel Cotto the Cotto camp never noticed anything unusual about Margarito's gloves. Yet most boxing people now feel that Margarito used loaded gloves in their fight after was caught trying to use loaded gloves against Shane Mosley.

 

[sport historian]

I tend to not believe conspiracy theories, but this ko was unusually brutal. Only the Dempsey ko was similar in the history of boxing and Dempsey's estranged manager told Sports Illustrated on his death bed about the "loaded gloves". Doc Kearns stated that Dempsey was oblivious to the loaded gloves. Also you asked about how the other camp didn't notice the loaded gloves. When Antonio Margarito fought Miguel Cotto the Cotto camp never noticed anything unusual about Margarito's gloves. Yet most boxing people now feel that Margarito used loaded gloves in their fight after was caught trying to use loaded gloves against Shane Mosley.

Kearns (never known for his honesty) made that claim in a Sport Illustrated article. Dempsey sued and SI had to make a retraction. Some people tried to duplicate what Kearns alleged had been done to Dempsey's gloves and found it impossible. Dempsey would have broken his own hands. See Randy Roberts' 1979 book, "Jack Dempsey: The Manassa Mauler."

Seven months after knocking out Schmeling, Joe Louis met Light Heavyweight Champion John Henry Lewis (a black man) and beat him as brutally as he had Schmeling. It lasted 25 seconds longer than the Schmeling bout.

 

[Charles Martel]

Seven months after knocking out Schmeling, Joe Louis met Light Heavyweight Champion John Henry Lewis (a black man) and beat him as brutally as he had Schmeling. It lasted 25 seconds longer than the Schmeling bout.

Why, do you believe it should have taken longer with a black man? Black men are NOT better or tougher boxers. It used to SEEM that way because the most athletic American men rarely chose boxing while blacks often did.

What was wrong with Schmeling that night was having a motivated and in top shape Joe Louis in the ring with him. Schmeling was a notorious slow starter and Louis jumped on him.

That's what people who are Joe Louis fans will tell us.

But I suspect there is more to it that that.

Well, what?

I don't know - it happened long before I was born. But given 1) the way Schmeling dominated the first fight, 2) the fact that Schmeling had a good chin, 3) there was no one there to inspect Louis' gloves, and 4) the fact that Louis wasn't the superman you make him out to be if you examine his career more closely, then we have GOOD REASON TO SUSPECT that the gloves may indeed have been loaded.

You are coming across as quite an admirer of Joe Louis.

Edited by: Parody

 

[sport historian]

Seven months after knocking out Schmeling, Joe Louis met Light Heavyweight Champion John Henry Lewis (a black man) and beat him as brutally as he had Schmeling. It lasted 25 seconds longer than the Schmeling bout.

Why, do you believe it should have taken longer with a black man? Black men are NOT better or tougher boxers. It used to SEEM that way because the most athletic American men rarely chose boxing while blacks often did.

What was wrong with Schmeling that night was having a motivated and in top shape Joe Louis in the ring with him. Schmeling was a notorious slow starter and Louis jumped on him.

That's what people who are Joe Louis fans will tell us.

But I suspect there is more to it that that.

Well, what?

I don't know - it happened long before I was born. But given 1) the way Schmeling dominated the first fight, 2) the fact that Schmeling had a good chin, 3) there was no one there to inspect Louis' gloves, and 4) the fact that Louis wasn't the superman you make him out to be if you examine his career more closely, then we have GOOD REASON TO SUSPECT that the gloves may indeed have been loaded.

You are coming across as quite an admirer of Joe Louis.

Schmeling was KO'd 4 times (Max Diekmann in 1924, Larry Gains in 1925, Gypsy Daniels in 1928, and Max Baer in 1933) before 1938. Ever see the film of the 1933 Baer-Schmeling bout? Edited by: sport historian

 

[FootballDad]

So, is this thread now going to be renamed "Joe Louis, the great black horseshoe-gloved hype", or "Jewish managers, the great (fill in derogatory term) hype", or Max Scmeling, the great victim/conspirator/lackey (take your pick) hype"?

Now back to the topic at hand, what did this have to do with everyone's favorite fraud, David Haye?

 

[Colonel_Reb]

I was thinking there was some late breaking news regarding Haye on this thread, until I started reading it.

 

[space hillbilly]

Seven months after knocking out Schmeling, Joe Louis met Light Heavyweight Champion John Henry Lewis (a black man) and beat him as brutally as he had Schmeling. It lasted 25 seconds longer than the Schmeling bout.

Why, do you believe it should have taken longer with a black man? Black men are NOT better or tougher boxers. It used to SEEM that way because the most athletic American men rarely chose boxing while blacks often did.

What was wrong with Schmeling that night was having a motivated and in top shape Joe Louis in the ring with him. Schmeling was a notorious slow starter and Louis jumped on him.

That's what people who are Joe Louis fans will tell us.

But I suspect there is more to it that that.

Well, what?

I don't know - it happened long before I was born. But given 1) the way Schmeling dominated the first fight, 2) the fact that Schmeling had a good chin, 3) there was no one there to inspect Louis' gloves, and 4) the fact that Louis wasn't the superman you make him out to be if you examine his career more closely, then we have GOOD REASON TO SUSPECT that the gloves may indeed have been loaded.

You are coming across as quite an admirer of Joe Louis.

Schmeling was KO'd 4 times (Max Diekmann in 1924, Larry Gains in 1925, Gypsy Daniels in 1928, and Max Baer in 1933) before 1938. Ever see the film of the 1933 Baer-Schmeling bout?

Ive seen the fight many times, Schmeling cut Baer's face up like hamburger! It was nothing like the Louis fight. And BTW, way do you only post in the boxing forum when you can start an argument with anyone that has a deffrent view on boxing than the "Status quo" of the MSM??

 

[ww]

I've seen both fights, Schmeling in the first bout was all
game, he fought toe-to-toe with Louis and outlasted him, destroying him
the 12th round.



The 2nd bout is clearly a throw away, Schmeling was clearly bothered
by the Nazi propaganda of Aryan supremacy, and did Louis, not to
mention all of America (and the Jews) a favor. There's no way a great
fighter like him would expose his temple so easily, unless he had some
sort of guilty conscience.

Gimme a break. This is the straight out
politically corrected party line. And what does "Aryan superiority"
really have to do with who can win a boxing match anyway? Put a
mountain gorilla in the ring and he'll kick ass. Does that mean
gorillas are superior to Aryans? This is just all the bs they feed to
the people. Schmeling had a Jewish manager and freakin trained at a
Jewish resort in the Catskills, and half the "Nazi" leadership were
Jewish background themselves! Edited by: ww

 

[ww]

Well, where is it?

What would you like, signed and notarized affidavits from FD Roosevelt and Governor Lehman? The boxing fixers don't leave paper trails, you know. Check out the videos of these two fights on Youtube and notice the difference in the effect of Louis' punches in both. In the second fight every single punch was devastating. Punches hurt much more when you've inserted a horse shoe into your mitt.This should be a separate thread.

Schmeling's handlers examined Louis' gloves before the fight and vice versa.

What "handlers"? He was all alone. They wouldn't let Joe Jacobs in the stadium, and his corner man didn't show up. Schmeling was there in his locker all alone. Nobody examined Louis' gloves.

 

[ww]

So, is this thread now going to be renamed "Joe Louis, the great black horseshoe-gloved hype", or "Jewish managers, the great (fill in derogatory term) hype", or Max Scmeling, the great victim/conspirator/lackey (take your pick) hype"?
<div></div>
<div>Now back to the topic at hand, what did this have to do with everyone's favorite fraud, David Haye?</div>

Maybe the mod can separate this thread into two threads.

 

[space hillbilly]

Hayehas gottensostupid that even his fans are starting to make fun of him! now he wants to fight Vitali! at first it was Wald, then Vitali, then Wald, then Vitali, its just gotten stupid!!!

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&amp;id=34751

 

[space hillbilly]

Hayehas gottensostupid that even his fans are starting to make fun of him! now he wants to fight Vitali! at first it was Wald, then Vitali, then Wald, then Vitali, its just gotten stupid!!!

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&amp;id=34751

The funny thing about this is Haye pulled out of the fight with Waldimir because he said
they would not have the time to promote the fight. now he's saying that just 9 weeks is ok!
this guy is a joke, and the Klitschkos need to just move on....

 

[whiteathlete33]

Has there been a bigger loser ever in the heavyweight division. Haye can say what he wants but the Klitschko's have never ducked anyone. Why would they now and especially someone who has no credibility at heavyweight? I could see if Haye beat some big names in the division but he didn't even beat Valuev.

 

[space hillbilly]

Has there been a bigger loser ever in the heavyweight division. Haye can say what he wants but the Klitschko's have never ducked anyone. Why would they now and especially someone who has no credibility at heavyweight? I could see if Haye beat some big names in the division but he didn't even beat Valuev.

I think there's some desperation starting to overtake Haye now,its becomeing clear he dosen't want to fight Chagaev, thats why he didn't want to fight Waldimir in July. the WBA will force Haye's mandatory before then.

 

[space hillbilly]

Haye is afraid of a guy Waldimir beat from piller-to-post for nine rounds, I believe David will get stripped by the WBA before he fights Chagaev...

 

[j41181]

The Queen of Excuses, and no... he doesn't deserve to dictate any terms against the K brothers. He'd better get his balls straight if he wants to retire gracefully, 'cause he's nothing but a disgrace.

 

[Charles Martel]

I think there's some desperation starting to overtake Haye now,  its becomeing clear he dosen't want to fight Chagaev, thats why he didn't want to fight Waldimir in July.  the WBA will force Haye's mandatory before then.
<div> </div>

He's finding it uncomfortable being a heavyweight titleholder, because he never really earned it and doesn't belong there. He's afraid to step in the ring with a top ten opponent because he knows he'd lose.

Perhaps for his next opponent he'll choose an old boxer who never was any good like age 39 Audley Harrison, or a shot old fighter who once was good like Roy Jones or Antonio Tarver.

 

[whiteathlete33]

I would have loved to see Haye fight Ibragimov. Sultan would give Haye fits with his hand speed and because he's a southpaw.

The thing I find ridiculous about Haye is the fact that the first fight with Vitali was all set to take place in England. Vitali agreed to have the fight in Haye's backyard until he pulled out with a supposed back injury. Obviously the Klitschko's aren't the ones making ridiculous demands if they agreed to fight in England. Remember this, no other opponents of the Klitschko's had any problems getting fights with them. It's only this clown.

 

[space hillbilly]

I think there's some desperation starting to overtake Haye now,its becomeing clear he dosen't want to fight Chagaev, thats why he didn't want to fight Waldimir in July. the WBA will force Haye's mandatory before then.

He's finding it uncomfortable being a heavyweight titleholder, because he never really earned it and doesn't belong there. He's afraid to step in the ring with a top ten opponent because he knows he'd lose.

Perhaps for his next opponent he'll choose an old boxer who never was any good like age 39 Audley Harrison, or a shot old fighter who once was good like Roy Jones or Antonio Tarver.

I can't see the WBA not forceing Haye to face his mandatory,
juat because Chagaev can't fight in England, there's more countries than England!
like Germanyor even the US.Edited by: lost

 

[space hillbilly]

This is getting really funny! The Klitschkos are simply forceing Haye to fight a legitimate top ten fighter, Haye has nowhere to go, if he can get out of the Chagaev fightPovetkin is next in line.
both Chagaev or Povetkin will knock Haye kicking, Haye bet everything, rolled the dice, and lost..
Here's what Boente had to say about David fighting Vitali in May!

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&amp;id=34769

 

[iamasadlittleboy]

http://hubpages.com/hub/David-Haye-and-the-WBA-Heavyweight-rankings

Makes me think he'll probably face Hasim Rahman, a man boxing fans have nicknamed Hasbeen Rahman. Shot, old, safe opponent that makes sense to Haye and his Sky paymasters.

 

[referendum]

For what its worth, two sources I saw on the net mentioned a possible Chagaev Haye matchup in late May, assuming the medical issues with Chagaev are dealt with, a big if of course, and assuming Haye doesn't try to chicken out of it. In my fantasy world, the winner of Chagaev Haye would fight either Wlad or Vitali in late summer, and the other brother would fight Adamek around the same time.

 

[Charles Martel]

For what its worth, two sources I saw on the net mentioned a possible Chagaev Haye matchup in late May, assuming the medical issues with Chagaev are dealt with, a big if of course, and assuming Haye doesn't try to chicken out of it. In my fantasy world, the winner of Chagaev Haye would fight either Wlad or Vitali in late summer, and the other brother would fight Adamek around the same time.

Chagaev is free to fight in Germany but not in the UK. It may go to purse bid.

The people who run the WBA are lazy. They should be pushing for this and other fights, but they always let things slide.

I think the Klitschkos should forget about Haye and his paper title. It should be Wlad's anyway, since he beat Chagaev.

 

[space hillbilly]

For what its worth, two sources I saw on the net mentioned a possible Chagaev Haye matchup in late May, assuming the medical issues with Chagaev are dealt with, a big if of course, and assuming Haye doesn't try to chicken out of it. In my fantasy world, the winner of Chagaev Haye would fight either Wlad or Vitali in late summer, and the other brother would fight Adamek around the same time.

Chagaev is free to fight in Germany but not in the UK. It may go to purse bid.

The people who run the WBA are lazy. They should be pushing for this and other fights, but they always let things slide.

I think the Klitschkos should forget about Haye and his paper title. It should be Wlad's anyway, since he beat Chagaev.

If it goes to a purse bid isn't that clear proof Haye is trying to
duck Chagaev? Haye didn't care to go to Germany and fight Valuev or to France for the Mormeck
fight, so if he is not scared of Chagaev wouldn't he want to fight him even if it's in Germany?