Christophe Lemaitre "White Lightning" 9.92 and 19.80!

[white lightning]

He has went from a 10.56 and 21.27 in 2000 to what he is doing now. I'm sorry but it just doesn't add up. I like the guy as far as his personality but it's plain as day to me that he is cheating. Marion Jones like countless other swore she was clean. I even read her book where she went on and on about how people shouldn't do steroids. What a hypocrite. Same with Tim Montgomery and Justin Gatlin. The US has had a history going back to Carl Lewis and even before hand.

You don't go from a 10.56 to running in the 9.70's - 9.80's range. It just doesn't happen. That is why when we talk about Craig, we say he can peak around a 9.95 - 9.99. Realistic Goals. Imagine if Craig starts running Tyson Gay times. People would say no way in hell. I like Tyson Gay but I'm 99% sure he is on peds. Testing doesn't matter these days. They know how to beat the testers and the stars are always protected. Gay is one of the top 3 fastest men in the world. No way the US lets him get caught. He is the only guy who can challenge the other ped kids from Jamaica. Sorry but the truth hurts. Here is Tyson Gay and his progression going back to 2000.

http://www.usatf.org/athletes/bios/Gay_tyson.aspEdited by: white lightning

 

[white lightning]

Oh and I forgot to add. Lemaitre as a teenager with bad form blows Gay out of the water. Imagine when he gets his body mechanics right. He is faster at this age than Gay, Powell and Bolt were! His potential is incredible. So if you compare him to Gay, Powell or Bolt, he should progress better than them except for one factor. The PED Factor. I don't want to see Christophe have to go down that path. He is so good that he doesn't have to. He is doing it the right way!Edited by: white lightning

 

[white lightning]

The articles keep coming about his extraordinary speed for his age. Amazing sprinter! Here is the link.


http://translate.google.com/translate?tl=en&sourceid=ie8-activity&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sports.fr%2Fcmc%2Fathletisme%2F200932%2Flemaitre-apprend-vite_238617.htmlEdited by: white lightning

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

You could be right, but it could be possible Gay was a late bloomer. What year did he get real serious with track?

In H.S in 2000- he was 17 and then turned 18 in the summer on August 9th- he was 17 and 18 years old when he ran 10.56 & 21.27. At 18 & 19- he ran 10.46 and 21.23. The year he was 19 & 20 Gay ran 10.27 & 20.88. When he was 20 & 21- he ran 10.01w and 20.31w. When he was 21 & 22- he ran 10.06 and 20.07 (better in the 200 and maybe a little better in the 100 since it was wind legal). The next year- he was still in college and ran a 10.08 and 19.93 (a very elite time). He then started running his really elite 100 meter times once he went full-time pro.

This is somewhat suspicious do to it being later in age than most- but it is a steady improvement. We could also say the same about Guliyev's progression being suspicious due to it's "suddenness". Lemaitre has improved less suddenly than Guliyev and his improvement has been more natural starting at a very young age- I agree the sky is the limit for him.

 

[white lightning]

If Gay were white, he would have never got a chance to stay in those events. He also got extremley muscular within a short period of time. He probably would have only been a 10.00 sprinter at best without some help i.m.o. You just don't see guys running a 19.58 200 in the first deuce of the year. Think about it. Your very intelligent and I respect your opinion but the times are unbelivable. Look at Ronald Pognon, Kim Collins, and Jason Gardner. These guys are natural i.m.o. I know sprinting and I've seen too much ped use run rampant over the years.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

i don't know as much about the history or technical aspects of track as White Lightning and some of our other posters, but i do know a couple of things relevant to Tyson Gay (since he ran for the University of Arkansas while i was there).

1) to use Tough's words, Tyson Gay "went full-time pro" before he ever left Arkansas, as both he and teammate Wallace Spearmon caused the Razorbacks to forfeit a couple of National Championships because they were being paid to run by "friends."

2) if these two blacks knowingly cheat, why do you think they wouldn't cheat a bit more? they certainly aren't upstanding pillars of virtue.

3) when an athlete goes pro, they don't suddenly start their real training. University of Arkansas track and field is recognized for being one of THE elite track programs in the world, and it has one of the fastest indoor tracks, as well as one of the best outdoor tracks in the USA. despite these factors assisting him, Gay hit a plateua early on in his career. his personal best 100-meter time was 10.06 (still very fast whether he was on PEDs or not, no doubt) in 2004, but his best time actually got slower for the next year ... then, out of nowhere he shaves off more than 2-tenths of a second in a single season! then, he plateaued again ... before shaving off nearly another tenth of a second in one year. the same thing happened with his 200 meter times, plateaus then HUGE improvements.

after running seriously for that many years, you don't get that pattern without some "enhancing" of nature.

and finally,

4) we post on here all the time about White high school runners who blaze the 100 meter track in the 10.5-10.6 range, yet none of them get offered scholarships to run track, much less threaten to break the world record... many don't even get scholarships to play football. so i'll not be bowing down to worship the Gay.

i'll keep my eye out for some White kids who i can support without bending over backward to ignore the evidence.

 

[albinosprint]

great post Jimmy!

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

1. I'm sure Gay had good training at Arkansas, but he also had to take classes and probably had more social events on his agenda while in college than now, so he may have had a little less time for Herculean training regiments.

2. They may have been pressured by someone to take money and done it due to their family being very poor. It's breaking the rules, but I would say it's quite different than PED use cheating. I am 95% confident that Spearmon is clean. He looks quite natural and by people's accounts- he's obsessed with his personal health...You might be right that being 60% confident that Gay doesn't use "any kind" of PEDs is high, but I will not "convict" him as a PED user without more evidence.

On #4 JC, I 100% agree. Hunter Furr actually ran a 10.46 as a Junior in H.S. That's a whole tenth of a second faster a year earlier than Gay (although I don't know when Gay started running H.S track). But somehow not only is Hunter not going to try turning pro in track, he's happy adding 30 lbs. (and losing some of his freakish speed) to become a battering ram fullback for Butcher "the white athlete" Davis. This is despite him being a very productive tailback. I couldn't find his junior and senior stats (I heard he did great though), but he ran for 1842 on 8.5 YPC as only a sophomore before he transferred to Mt. Tabor. This ridiculous scenario makes absolutely zero sense.

BTW JC, I just enjoy playing devil's advocate sometimes. Cheers.

Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins

 

[StarWars]

Great post Jimmy Chitwood. Regarding TJR's assertion that it is feasable that the best black can be slightly better than the best white and not be on PED's, I think that is very possible. Just not Tyson Gay. He opened his season with a 19.58 second 200 meter... Not to mention his progression is unreal. Gay ran a 10.6 100 at the age that Craig Pickering could run 10.22, and Lemaitre could run 10.26. If you made track amateur, you would see that whites and blacks are the fastest people, and fairly on par with eachother. Is a clean sub 10 possible? I think so, but only if you have a stride that is 3 meters long. The more I watch Craig run 10.20's and Lemaitre pull off better times effortlessly, it becomes apparent that the 100m is meant for very tall people, and the 60 is made for anybody. In a clean world, Lemaitre and Bolt would be neck and neck.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

One of the things that amazes me is how DWFs always say "yeah, blacks are more athletic, just look at the 100 meters." But what does this have to do with the NFL?

The top marks for "30" yard rushes from scrimmage in a season in the NFL are DeAngelo Williams-8, Jim Brown- 7, Gale Sayers and a couple others had 6, Mr. Swivel Barry Sanders never had more than 5. So really it's 10-25 yard burst, short shuttle, 3 cone and broad jump measurements that are more important. Whites measure up fine in all 4 of these areas and probably surpass blacks in the 3-cone and short shuttle when you look at Pro Days and the limited white pool from combine invites.

Even over 40 yards we see black RBs in the NFL who play and run in the 4.6s and even occasional low 4.7s (and just look at the 2009 combine times). I compared the top black speed position prospects to the whites of similar size- only comparing combine to combine and Pro Day to Pro Day times and same position to same position. If I recall my results- the blacks were .04 or .05 seconds faster. This is about "a half foot" apart over that distance.

In track in 50 meters- whites have the 4th and 10th best times all time and Manfred Kokot's white record time is only 0.05 seconds off the world record-Morne Nagel is 0.06 off the record. Over 60 meters Morne Nagel is 19th all time. But to play devil's advocate, he'd be 15th if you throw out the 3 convicted cheaters times and assume that the 4th cheater- Dwain Chambers- who was reinstated before he ran his 6.42 this year, is still cheating. Nagel is only 0.09 seconds off the record. Even over 100 meters only 69 men have run a wind legal FAT sub 10 and only 19 men have run a sub 9.9 (a 9.89 is only 0.11 seconds faster than the white record or about a meter apart at the finish.)

So Maximus now=Arizona State, what are your thoughts on this post?

Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins

 

[DegradationParadox]

Why does Spearmon have blue eyes? Is he half white?</span>

 

[albinosprint]

is Spearmon half white? No, but there is definitely a ***** in the wood pile!

 

[albinosprint]

? I can't type H o n k y ?

 

[FastEuro]

I am 99% convinced Tyson Gay is not on any PED's...Speed and Strength are peaked between the ages of 25 -30, pending training and injury free. Gay had a very slow progression. He developed late. I am a good example. Not a sprinter but I remember clearly in High school, I ran the 40 yard dash as a sophomore in 5.7 seconds at a body-weight of 150 pounds (tall skinny and slow). As a senior, my weight increased to 165, I did only calisthenics to get in shape, and my 40 dropped to 4.9. Out of high school and starting to lift weights, I gained 15 pounds, increased my power tremendously (Naturally) and dropped my 40 to a legit 4.6 (played some college DIV 3). No PED's, just hard work and training. We all develop differently.<div>
</div><div>PS: Lemaitre is the real deal. He is very special to sprinting. Race aside, this kid is raw and built for speed. Once he builds a strong body and explosive power (which he completely lacks, as well as refining his form) - look out! ...Guliyev is right behind him and will be a top 200 meters sprinter (very similar in style to Michael Johnson) Short quicks steps and turnover.</div>

 

[white is right]

Look at issues of T+F News. Gay was on a few covers as a Razor Back. He was much much slimmer across the shoulders. Yes he doesn't have to take classes now. But he probably really didn't take real classes anyway. The plateauing and sudden dropping is usually a sign of a sticking point in training. Gatlin was a low 10.0X collegian too. We know he took roids to be a 9.7X sprinter. Only the most biased of negroidphiles would argue otherwise....

 

[swampfox]

From my perspective the most exasperating thing about PED's in the sprints is how it taints perspective most of all.Let me try to explain my thoughts. I believe it is quite in the realm of human possibilty 9.69 in the 100m(I don't know about running a 9.69 while skipping the final 15 yards,but I'll save that for later).However I think this would be on the outer edge of human accomplishment,Much like Beamon's Mexico City long jump breaking the world record by 22 inches when for the most part we crept along stretching the long jump by 1/2 inch margins,and after his jump the rest of world class competition stayed at the pre-Beamon level and the very best inched along by tiny increments over that previous level. It's extremely compelling to me that a 27'6" or less long jump at a major competition will probably get you a medal or very possibly win the event for you.Man was doing this 40 or 45 years ago. It is possible that these amazing 9.7 and 9.8 times can be produced, but it stretches plausibilty that they happen so often among so many(I admit it is not that "many" but it is far more that once a decade or even a generation),on top[ of the fact that the times are always dropping. It causes one to lose historical perspective, and when that is lost, the accomplishments of previous athletes is even more greatly diminished.We are in an age when it is accepted that athletic feats are a particular race's domain,and when we can not bring up past accmplishments by White athlete's because they look so paltry compared with todays accomplishments,we lose one angle to our argument that we are capable of athletic equality,even though it's been proven in the past. I apologize for the length of this post.

 

[white lightning]

Great post. We need to move this discussion to the steroids thread if we want to continue. We are ruining the thread created for Lemaitre. I love to debate and we can continue this if you guys want. I stand by my assertion that Gay is on peds. Spearmon is probably clean but I can't say for sure. No way on Gay.

Back to the main man of the moment. Christophe Lemaitre and his coach have decided to run the 100 this Friday instead. Great news. They can always run a couple of 200 races later this summer. He needs to be ready for the 100 and another p.b. wouldn't hurt. So this Friday, get ready for a sub 10 my friends. I feel it coming!

 

[white lightning]

Here is a list of a few of the world class sprinters/gold medal winners/worlds fastest men and their personal best times in the 100 at 19 years of age.

Asafa Powell: aged 19 ran a PB of 10.12 (1.3 m/s).
Tyson Gay: aged 19 ran a PB of 10.27 (0.7m/s).
Usain Bolt: aged 21 ran a PB of 10.03 (0.7m/s).
Maurice Greene: aged 19 ran a PB of 10.43
Bruny Surin aged: 19 ran a PB of 10.62
Christophe Lemaitre: aged 19 ran a PB of 10.04 (0.2m/s)

 

[StarWars]

I am very pleased that he chose to do the 100. I have read on some other forums that it is a fast track with favorable winds. I'm going to cross my fingers. If he keeps up his progression then he should do it. Let's hope he wasn't lying about not focusing on times, because I don't want him to tighten up.

 

[white lightning]

Good news and bad news. The good news is that Lemaitre ran today and he did not get hurt despite running both the 100 & 200 meters. He won both races. The bad news is that he had his worst start of the year. He only ran a 10.20 with -0.1 wind. His 200 race was also a very ordinary 20.73 seconds but it was ran into a -1.1 wind! So nothing special although they are not bad times either. His last three 100 meters races are now a 10.17, 10.04 and 10.20 all with little or no wind. Christophe was very dissapointed in his time. This will be his last race. He will not race on Friday. He needs to rest and get ready for running the rounds at Berlin. I'm still confident that he will do good in Berlin. A finals berth is all that I want along with maybe a sub 10 as well. Good luck Christophe!Edited by: white lightning

 

[waterbed]

&lt;span ="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px; "&gt;Why does Spearmon have blue eyes? Is he half white?&lt;/span&gt;

I don't think one of his parents is really white but I think he got white admixture from both parents what is called multi generation admixture.it is even possible that an african american with 2 african american parents have less black in him (like 40% black, spearmon could be that)) then an biracial with a african american farther or so that is 90% sub saharan african ancestry and a white mother with no black admixture(like majority white americans).

Like one in three white people have blue eyes and "blacks"with them are nearly always from the american continent or live in europe with parents from american continent like duch antilles.

white american have

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

From my perspective the most exasperating thing about PED's in the sprints is how it taints perspective most of all.Let me try to explain my thoughts. I believe it is quite in the realm of human possibilty 9.69 in the 100m(I don't know about running a 9.69 while skipping the final 15 yards,but I'll save that for later).However I think this would be on the outer edge of human accomplishment,Much like Beamon's Mexico City long jump breaking the world record by 22 inches when for the most part we crept along stretching the long jump by 1/2 inch margins,and after his jump the rest of world class competition stayed at the pre-Beamon level and the very best inched along by tiny increments over that previous level. It's extremely compelling to me that a 27'6" or less long jump at a major competition will probably get you a medal or very possibly win the event for you.Man was doing this 40 or 45 years ago. It is possible that these amazing 9.7 and 9.8 times can be produced, but it stretches plausibilty that they happen so often among so many(I admit it is not that "many" but it is far more that once a decade or even a generation),on top[ of the fact that the times are always dropping. It causes one to lose historical perspective, and when that is lost, the accomplishments of previous athletes is even more greatly diminished.We are in an age when it is accepted that athletic feats are a particular race's domain,and when we can not bring up past accmplishments by White athlete's because they look so paltry compared with todays accomplishments,we lose one angle to our argument that we are capable of athletic equality,even though it's been proven in the past. I apologize for the length of this post.

Don't worry about a long post if it it presents good evidence. I always try hard to convince stupid DWFs through evidence myself, so here we go again: Whites have proven we can compete in every sport when we are given a chance. DWFs thought blacks would dominate boxing forever. Now Eastern Euros have took over the heavy divisions and even white Americans have new found confidence. Whites have held 15-17 of the 20 belts from middleweight to Heavyweight all year.

Here's a look at the caste system in the NFL: Eric Weddle played some CB at Utah and has solid speed for an NFL "STARTER". He is at amongst the most elite of his NFL peers for his 10 yard dash though- 4th fastest 10 yard clip ever (1.43-0.03 seconds off the record). He has an impressive 6.78 3-cone and owns an impressive 4.12 short shuttle (an agility mark of 0.36 better than his 40 time). He held Calvin Johnson to one catch matched up man to man an entire game for Utah. Wes Welker was cut by San Diego and almost Miami. No one believed in him due to his white pigmentation, but he went on to make the Pro Bowl last season (imagine that-a Pro Bowler almost blacklisted from the league because of his lack of melanin). Kevin Curtis is hated in Phili when statistically- in 2007- he had the most yards for an Eagle since the late 80s by anyone other than Terrell Owens. Curtis has run a 4.28 hand-timed 40 and ran a 4.41 at the NFL combine. Luke Staley can run a 40 in the 4.4 range and win the Doak award this decade, but get screwed by the NFL. Jacob Hester can be the starting tailback for the BCS champions and post basically the same stats fellow LSU tailback Joseph Addai did as a senior. The Chargers went on to draft a guy with a very similar Powerback style (in Gartrell Johnson), but who is significantly less athletic. Gartrell also didn't lead his team to a national championship. In the NFL- Peyton Hillis was a record setting HB in H.S in Arkansas- was screwed in college and then went on to play like a Pro Bowl back in limited games as a starter in the NFL after almost going undrafted. When top white skill players actually "get a chance" they prove they're just as good as blacks.

So getting back to track- we will prove to be competitive again at 100 meters with Christophe Lemaitre and Ramil Guliyev. Best case scenario-these guys even have a shot at the medal stand at the Olympics. We have already proven we can be competitive at 200 meters in this era with Mr. Kenteris of Greece. We will win more medals in the coming years with young talent like Lemaitre, Guliyev, Hession and others. And just think- when American white H.S kids would run a mid to high 21 in H.S and would be moved up to 800 meters in Division I college. Now they are usually only moved up to 400 meters after seeing Jeremy Wariner win Gold and Silver the last two Olympics. Lemaitre and Guliyev are going to change the perception people have of whites at 100 and 200 meters- just like other white athletes have proven we can compete in other supposedly "black" sports! Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins

 

[swampfox]

Sorry to have gotten the thread off topic.Back to Lemaitre.I'm not terribly disappointed in his times this week.One of the things we're going to have to deal with for a while is the inconsistency that should come with youth.I don't even expect him to do outlandishly well in the Worlds.I would like to see it.I think he can perform well. He even has the ability to shock the sprinting world,and these things alone are enough to get me excited and look forward to the results. His abilities are obvious the speed the kid can generate are elite already.I don't wont to veer again,but one reason I still think highly of Pickering is he is still generating this speed. It is visible.If you were to put a radar gun on these guys they are clocking as high a velocity at some points of the race as the most elite medal conteders.It's a matter of getting your stuff together and putting together a good race.Lemaitre's stuff is not anywhere near close to together and he still has 3 World class times of late. He makes things interesting.

 

[FastEuro]

There should be no disappointment with his times as he won both races, meaning there was no competition to push him faster. Lemaitre ran 10.04 cause Guliyev was on his tail. Gay and Bolt will push Lemaitre to run faster; plus, he just turned 19 I believe 1-2 months ago, has hardly any muscle power and strength (confirmed by coach that he hates weights which he knows is a necessity as he gets older and body develops). The sky is the limit for this kid. He is built to run, more so than any other white sprinter ever.

 

[swampfox]

Make no mistake I am not dissapointed.I am nothing but impressed.