Christophe Lemaitre "White Lightning" 9.92 and 19.80!
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Thanks, you're awesome !
the argie
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wind +2.3
Yeah, awful curve. Watched the replay. He almost crossed the line into the lane outside his. He just can't control his centrifugal momentum yet. He needs to learn that.
Finishing straight, though--INCREDIBLE. He makes everyone else look like they're walking.
Well, this is about the same time Bolt ran yesterday, and Bolt runs a good curve. Christophe will get better with practice and defeat Bolt next year.
Finishing straight, though--INCREDIBLE. He makes everyone else look like they're walking.
Well, this is about the same time Bolt ran yesterday, and Bolt runs a good curve. Christophe will get better with practice and defeat Bolt next year.
white lightning
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Another stellar time. Too bad about the wind!:cry: It's just amazing how much bad luck both Christophe and Ramil have had with the wind this year. At least he got the new 100 national record. Someone please post a video so we can discuss this race in detial. Thanks.
By the way. I'm having trouble changing the title of this thread to the number 9.92! I'm sure it's because of the new board. I will get it fixed or else ask Don what is going on.
By the way. I'm having trouble changing the title of this thread to the number 9.92! I'm sure it's because of the new board. I will get it fixed or else ask Don what is going on.
here is the Vid. One interesting thing that is said: on the first 100m, the wind was coming from face. Another athlete talked of a "wall of wind". So even if he had the wind in his back on the last 100, it has slowed down him (plus the very bad curve)
[video=youtube;HZlD62N4sDQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZlD62N4sDQ[/video]
[video=youtube;HZlD62N4sDQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZlD62N4sDQ[/video]
white is right
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Yes it looks like he is having a slingshot effect from not being able to control his speed hitting the turn. I can't really tell if it was as bad as the Euro 200 final where he almost slowed down by veering into the other competitors lane. What is scary about his 200 at the moment is that it is so raw yet he is in the mix to at win a bronze in a month. If he had the technique of a Mennea or Quarrie I would say he would win a bronze and be in the mix to win silver behind Bolt.
white lightning
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I just watched the 200 race again. I still feel that he will probably always be a better 100 meters sprinter than in the 200. He is very tall and Christophe always struggles with the curve for the majority of his races. He will get alot better but I don't know if he will ever be able to hug the inside of the line like he needs to in order to cut those precious hundreths of seconds of his time. I do see him running sub 20's consistantly but I honestly can't see him even getting any where michael johnsons old record of 19.32 let alone Bolts record. He can still be a medal threat at that distance though. Especially this year if he can handle the rounds.
Once this kid gets his drive phase worked out, he will start to run in the 9.80's range. By 2016, I see him dipping down into the 9.60's to 9.70's range. It is possible for him to get Bolts world record of 9.58 but it is still far too early to talk about that. He needs to first work on getting some things fixed. As you guys know, his top end speed is off the charts. Just wait till we see a stronger sprinter who can explode out of the blocks. Only then will we see a guy that can challenge any sprinter on earth. I can't wait to see him get there. I also hope some other white sprinters will be motivated in the near future to step up their game along with the little kids who are just starting out. We have not to seen the "Lemaitre Effect" too much yet. Give it time! If Pickering doesn't race in London on August 5th, maybe Christophe should take his spot to go against Powell one last time before the world champs. It would be a great final tuneup but additional training and rest might be more important at the moment.
Once this kid gets his drive phase worked out, he will start to run in the 9.80's range. By 2016, I see him dipping down into the 9.60's to 9.70's range. It is possible for him to get Bolts world record of 9.58 but it is still far too early to talk about that. He needs to first work on getting some things fixed. As you guys know, his top end speed is off the charts. Just wait till we see a stronger sprinter who can explode out of the blocks. Only then will we see a guy that can challenge any sprinter on earth. I can't wait to see him get there. I also hope some other white sprinters will be motivated in the near future to step up their game along with the little kids who are just starting out. We have not to seen the "Lemaitre Effect" too much yet. Give it time! If Pickering doesn't race in London on August 5th, maybe Christophe should take his spot to go against Powell one last time before the world champs. It would be a great final tuneup but additional training and rest might be more important at the moment.
Colonel_Reb
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I'm just now seeing CL's new personal and French record race! Awesome to see him knocking 3/100ths off in that race! Y'all may be right in that he might go below 9.90 before the end of the year. White Lightning is flying! :biggrin1:
Soccer&track
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I have to agree with WL here, I think he could very well snatch a world record in 3-4 years. He's only 21 and he hasn't reached anywhere near his full strength. I think we are all salivating so much because he has done things that "caste" believers thought couldn't be done. If a few more white sprinters go sub 10, I don't think we will all be watching so closely with our microscopes lol. Watching his races is unbelievable! I have an untrained eye, but it seems to me no one can pull him the last half of any race. The other top sprinters know his start is weak, but they also know it won't be weak for too much longer. In 3-4 years I think he will be ridiculously fast. I think he and his coach are being smart about not racing too much and just letting him grow and get better gradually. FWIW, I myself think he currently more than capable of running a mid 9.8x!
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ToughJ.Riggins
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Wow, Christophe just beat the time of the one non black that ran a sub 10 (Patrick Johnson who is half Aboriginal and half Irish). This is great news! The second fastest race in the 100 meters are whites! And yes we are faster than east Africans too. I think this kid is capable of getting a bronze medal and has a longshot chance at silver in London if he can get his confidence and start ability up. A sub 9.8 might be possible in his future (9 one hundreths of a second faster (9.83) would have given him the world record as recently as the mid 90s)!
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Colonel_Reb
Hall of Famer
Tough, you mention the world record. That makes me think of another category that I think has been mentioned on CF before. That is the fastest non-PED 100M times or the real 100M world record. I wonder where CL's 9.92 ranks when we consider that he is running naturally? He's got to be in the top 5, right? Maybe someone with knowledge of track and who was/is likely PEDing help me out with this. I'm really curious to see where Christophe stands.
Braveheart
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I may be wrong but I think Lemaitre is tied for the 32nd fastest ever with 9.92. 6 of the faster times ahead of him are Jamaican (and recent), and a decent amount of the faster times are suspicious I imagine. Maurice Greene, Steve Mullings, Carl Lewis, and Justin Gatlin all have recorded PED infractions. But who knows, he could be top 10 clean if I had to guess.
white is right
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If he were doping the tell tale signs would be an increased vascular look with bulk and a freakish increase of endurance. He hasn't shown any signs of this yet. The upper end of the top times of all-time are littered with drug cheats and suspected drug cheats. Even times near the back of the sub ten all-time list have cheats, they are just from an earlier era when PED knowledge wasn't as good ie Carl Lewis and Leroy Burrell.
Colonel_Reb
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Braveheart, I was thinking CL would be in the top 10 "naturally aspirated" men in the 100M as far as times go, and maybe the top 5 as far as individuals go. He's quickly gaining ground on all the negroes who used "NOS" PEDs. Tis a wonderful thing to see!
ToughJ.Riggins
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Carl Lewis' infraction was taking a cough medicine with a stimulant in it- not steroids. He claims it was an honest mistake. I'd say that other than the Jamaicans- there is "little" cheating (as far as steroids) in the U.S and Europe right now. The Balco scandal took so much credibility away from track. Now there is MONTHLY RANDOM testing methods and back checking of blood viles and urine to take away records from the whole year of the drug test failure (when new detection science becomes available) and even more damaged reputations and even jail time as consequences. Gay's 9.69 was in perfectly ideal temperature with a +2.0 M/S. That is only .23 seconds faster than a raw 21 year old Christophe Lemaitre who still has not perfected his physique and drive phase.
What are you guys going to say when Lemaitre goes sub 9.8 which is very possible? Is it not possible for a man of another race to be 0.1 seconds (less than a blink of an eye) faster over 100 meters at a distance people of west African decent have traditionally done very well at? I do believe that there are some Jamaicans cheating now with how prevalent and prolific their sprinters are for such a small nation, especially with so many top 10- all time- times in the last few years (because of weak testing standards). However, not all the top guys right now are cheats! Some personalities have virtue and are very against cheating. Bolt seems like he has confidence in himself and is very health conscious. This is from some time I've spent looking into it. It is possible that even Bolt is clean and just that much of a freak anomoly.
I can't stand it when DWFs and black nationalists accuse Clay Matthews and Peyton Hillis of roiding b/c they are so dominant- big, strong, quick, agile with amazing finesse, burst and balance "and they are white".
I think Bolt being clean is not out of the question either. His top end speed is only so very slightly better than Lemaitre at this point, but his drive phase, weight training results, (and of course leg length/ stride length- due to genetics) all seem to be a little better at this point. As I said I think that some of the Jamaicans are probably cheating and the first names that come to mind from looking at their physiques are Powell and Carter!
If I was going to guess where Lemaitre ranks on the clean all time top 100 meter time list I'd say it would be around 20th (maybe about 15th at the highest). I'm not as much of a track expert as some of you, but I have looked at the history of track some in the last few years. I do believe (just as whites are a little stronger and we probably have slightly better eye hand coordination and ability to keep balance upon being impacted) that west Africans have slightly more of an affinity to produce elite runners from 10-350 meters. Whites are NOT superior to blacks in ALL facets of life. I don't believe God made it that way.
Sorry for the rant, but I prefer to enjoy Lemaitre's success as a debunker of stereotypes rather than focus on the negatives and accusations of others! Lemaitre is going to make some noise in T&F in the next 10 years. I don't want the haters accusing the white man of using PEDs just as some here are too quick to convict the great majority of black sprinters without enough proof.
What are you guys going to say when Lemaitre goes sub 9.8 which is very possible? Is it not possible for a man of another race to be 0.1 seconds (less than a blink of an eye) faster over 100 meters at a distance people of west African decent have traditionally done very well at? I do believe that there are some Jamaicans cheating now with how prevalent and prolific their sprinters are for such a small nation, especially with so many top 10- all time- times in the last few years (because of weak testing standards). However, not all the top guys right now are cheats! Some personalities have virtue and are very against cheating. Bolt seems like he has confidence in himself and is very health conscious. This is from some time I've spent looking into it. It is possible that even Bolt is clean and just that much of a freak anomoly.
I can't stand it when DWFs and black nationalists accuse Clay Matthews and Peyton Hillis of roiding b/c they are so dominant- big, strong, quick, agile with amazing finesse, burst and balance "and they are white".
I think Bolt being clean is not out of the question either. His top end speed is only so very slightly better than Lemaitre at this point, but his drive phase, weight training results, (and of course leg length/ stride length- due to genetics) all seem to be a little better at this point. As I said I think that some of the Jamaicans are probably cheating and the first names that come to mind from looking at their physiques are Powell and Carter!
If I was going to guess where Lemaitre ranks on the clean all time top 100 meter time list I'd say it would be around 20th (maybe about 15th at the highest). I'm not as much of a track expert as some of you, but I have looked at the history of track some in the last few years. I do believe (just as whites are a little stronger and we probably have slightly better eye hand coordination and ability to keep balance upon being impacted) that west Africans have slightly more of an affinity to produce elite runners from 10-350 meters. Whites are NOT superior to blacks in ALL facets of life. I don't believe God made it that way.
Sorry for the rant, but I prefer to enjoy Lemaitre's success as a debunker of stereotypes rather than focus on the negatives and accusations of others! Lemaitre is going to make some noise in T&F in the next 10 years. I don't want the haters accusing the white man of using PEDs just as some here are too quick to convict the great majority of black sprinters without enough proof.
Colonel_Reb
Hall of Famer
Tough, I'm not trying to accuse or bash others, just curious where CL stands among the NOS users and the naturally aspirateds as well. I do believe more are cheats than those we have proof on, but I believe Christophe can do some great things with more work and time.
ToughJ.Riggins
Hall of Famer
Glad to hear that Colonel. I wasn't talking about you specifically, but the average sentiments of the board as a whole. I have strong feelings that calling Lemaitre's 9.92 (at a wind of +2.0 M/S) a top 5 all time clean time is an exaggeration (maybe top 15 at most). But just to think that a white man is probably around the 25th-20th fastest natural sprinter in history in my mind (at only 21 years old) is something that makes me proud! I really think CL could surprise and take Bronze in London!
Colonel_Reb
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I hope you are right about the medal, Tough. I look forward to the day, and I know it will come, when Whites are again (well) represented in the 100M Olympic finals.
ToughJ.Riggins
Hall of Famer
Thinking about evidence presented on this board. I'm highly suspicious of some of the recent Jamaican times. I would predict that all of Gatlin's really fast times were PED enhanced. He is a convicted cheater and admitted to it after being pressed to try to reduce his ban. I believe that if you were clearly a cheat once then you probably were sneaking by earlier before being caught as well. Especially when you were running similar times.
Maurice Greene had an unusually vascular and freakish physique and their are rumours from the Heredia? report that he was connected to the Mexican PED dealer. Tim Montgomery of course was caught for cheating during the Balco bust, but his best times were all disqualified anyway if I'm not mistaken.
As far as guys like Carl Lewis, Bruny Surin and Donovan Bailey we really have no valid evidence against them on steroids. Also, Lemaitre is already capable of running similar times at 21. I'm going to take a guess and say that Gay is clean, although of course I am not naive enough to have no suspicions.
If there is wide spread cheating going on in Europe and the U.S I'd predict it isn't steroids or a stimulant since the testing methods have gotten so much better for them. Maybe there is some new hemoglobin/endurance enhancer available and of course HGH is undetectable in the blood after about a half hour. Neither of these things help nearly as much as steroids though at 100 meters. At 400 meters hemoglobin/ endurance enhancers can be a crucial difference though.
Maurice Greene had an unusually vascular and freakish physique and their are rumours from the Heredia? report that he was connected to the Mexican PED dealer. Tim Montgomery of course was caught for cheating during the Balco bust, but his best times were all disqualified anyway if I'm not mistaken.
As far as guys like Carl Lewis, Bruny Surin and Donovan Bailey we really have no valid evidence against them on steroids. Also, Lemaitre is already capable of running similar times at 21. I'm going to take a guess and say that Gay is clean, although of course I am not naive enough to have no suspicions.
If there is wide spread cheating going on in Europe and the U.S I'd predict it isn't steroids or a stimulant since the testing methods have gotten so much better for them. Maybe there is some new hemoglobin/endurance enhancer available and of course HGH is undetectable in the blood after about a half hour. Neither of these things help nearly as much as steroids though at 100 meters. At 400 meters hemoglobin/ endurance enhancers can be a crucial difference though.
white is right
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Riggins, Bailey has links to the Canadian doctor that was busted for bringing HGH across the border to Baldrick and other athletes. HGH growth hormone treatment isn't legal in track and field. Bailey blew out his Achilles around 99' and needed treatment so that he could be fit and ready for the Olympics in 2000'. Surin also gained tons of size from his 92' final appearance and his silver medal in 99'. Plus that era was very dirty and these guys competed and beat dirty sprinters. I'm not sure a clean sprinter can ever beat a dirty sprinter if their talent is near equal as dirty sprinter has a huge recovery ability on the clean sprinter.
mastermulti
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heyhey! I think I agree wholeheartedly with about every sentence and the logic process used to get there
Bk21
Guru
case against Bolt:
As you may know, since late 2009 (or beginning of 2010) the IAAF introduced the "biological passport" as the latest weapon against doping techniques:
Quoting Dr Gabriel Dollé, head of the anti-drug department at the IAAF:
"Athletes who use PED know that it disappears very quickly in the urine, If they are well prepared before a competition at PED, they keep dring the competition the benefits of increased red blood cells in the blood. PED having disappeared from the urine for a long time, we can make as much urine test as we want, we do not find anything. " To overcome the shortcomings of traditional anti-doping tests, "we must ensure strict monitoring throughout the year to see how their profile changed"
this method is not revolutionary stricto sensu, because it's not a direct detection method, but it allows to keep an eye on those who use PED throughout the year and refrain from using them once the competition approaches. It was introcuded in cyclism and immediately a bunch of cyclists were found with unstable parameters. it's also effective against new generations of PED and molecules who are always one step ahead the detection techniques; as a famous example the PED positive test of Lance Armstrong, 6 years after (in 2005 for samples of 1999!)
as for athletism: the "steroidian passport" part of the "biological passport" started just after the world championship in 2009:
my conclusion: the athletes (like Usain Bolt) whose performances dropped significantly in 2010 and 2011 are the most suspicious! Usain Bolt repeated several times that he won't do fast times like he used to do this year (he knew that before the season started) but he will be ready in 2012 (he may be caught in 2012 or may not be able to do a sub 9.8 again)..
as for Powell, well I think he's clean, stable performances, he did a 9.78 this year (he's28) which is understandable, although he's muscular, he's not bulky, doesn't have the swollen veins nor the red eye symptom
As you may know, since late 2009 (or beginning of 2010) the IAAF introduced the "biological passport" as the latest weapon against doping techniques:
Quoting Dr Gabriel Dollé, head of the anti-drug department at the IAAF:
"Athletes who use PED know that it disappears very quickly in the urine, If they are well prepared before a competition at PED, they keep dring the competition the benefits of increased red blood cells in the blood. PED having disappeared from the urine for a long time, we can make as much urine test as we want, we do not find anything. " To overcome the shortcomings of traditional anti-doping tests, "we must ensure strict monitoring throughout the year to see how their profile changed"
this method is not revolutionary stricto sensu, because it's not a direct detection method, but it allows to keep an eye on those who use PED throughout the year and refrain from using them once the competition approaches. It was introcuded in cyclism and immediately a bunch of cyclists were found with unstable parameters. it's also effective against new generations of PED and molecules who are always one step ahead the detection techniques; as a famous example the PED positive test of Lance Armstrong, 6 years after (in 2005 for samples of 1999!)
as for athletism: the "steroidian passport" part of the "biological passport" started just after the world championship in 2009:
my conclusion: the athletes (like Usain Bolt) whose performances dropped significantly in 2010 and 2011 are the most suspicious! Usain Bolt repeated several times that he won't do fast times like he used to do this year (he knew that before the season started) but he will be ready in 2012 (he may be caught in 2012 or may not be able to do a sub 9.8 again)..
as for Powell, well I think he's clean, stable performances, he did a 9.78 this year (he's28) which is understandable, although he's muscular, he's not bulky, doesn't have the swollen veins nor the red eye symptom
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