An Outsider's Perspective on this Website

olp

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Hello. I've checked out these boards from time to time and just recently registered. I'd like to tell you all how the average person probably views this site. You can delete my post or trash me or whatever you'd like, but if you want this website to succeed--and I know a lot of you do--you'd probably be wise to listen.

Do I find it striking how few white players are in the NFL? Yeah, sort of. Do I think one possible cause of this is racist anti-white practices on the part of college and NFL coaches? Sure, it's possible. But do I think that is definitely the cause? Absolutely not. And it's up to you guys to convince me.

If you want this site to be viewed as legitimate, you need to do more than simply tell me the NFL is racist. You need to do more than present arbitrary anecdotes of white players being benched or getting more playing time. Because for every one of these instances, I can look up some black player being treated the same way and use that as a counterargument. If you want people to believe white athletes are being discriminated against, the burden is on YOU to prove it. Maybe do statistical regressions of different-colored athletes' stats/combine numbers and their relative playing time. Maybe do a case study of a few particular players and the racism they faced (not racism you think they faced; I'm talking about actual, documented racism). This site's forum and articles are simply a collection of random anecdotes that do not convince anyone of anything. The very fact white players are not playing as much as you think they should does not in itself validate racism as your conclusion. That is circular logic and you're doing to have to do better if you want to convince the masses.

What hurts this site most of all, however, is the complete and utter lack of subjectivity among the posters. Black players are called ugly, the n-word is used, posters hope for black players to get injured. It is impossible for any outsider to not think the views of the posters as racist when the posters themselves act in such an absurd manner. To be clear, I am NOT saying you are racist for suggesting Jim Harbaugh benching Alex Smith is motivated by some anti-white agenda. But if you want me to believe that, then start acting objectively and PROVE IT. (And no, I don't mean prove that particular example; prove that something is happening with a sample size greater than 1).

An outsider comes to this site, reads that white athletes are being discriminated against, and then reads a post calling RGIII an ugly n*****. What do you expect that person to think? Obviously, they will think you have no good argument because even if black players were getting fair amounts of playing time, you'd still want to see them fail. It is absolutely inexcusable that the moderators do not clean up such posts if they expect this site to be seen as legitimate. Oh, and please stop calling players by such childish nicknames ("Crapernick," etc.); that does't help your cause either.

To sum this post up: if you want this site to catch on, you need to do two things:
-provide actual scientific evidence (statistical, real documentation, etc.)
-prove that you want white players to succeed because they are being treated unfairly, not because you are racist

Because sprinkled between all the blatant juvenility, this site does have a few potentially valid ideas...
 

Leonardfan

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One only has to look at the recruiting sites for the evidence. Tons of star white players are written off year after year unable to get division 1 scholarships. It's institutional racism that starts during college recruiting and continues through college and into the nfl. Honestly do your own research, it's not up to us to convince or remove the wool from your eyes.

The media throws insulting stereotypes at white players every Saturday and Sunday as well as during the draft process. It doesn't taken stats to notice this but just an open mind or one that has been freed from the brainwashing of the leftists that have turned this country upside down in the past 50 years.
 

olp

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One only has to look at the recruiting sites for the evidence. Tons of star white players are written off year after year unable to get division 1 scholarships. It's institutional racism that starts during college recruiting and continues through college and into the nfl. Honestly do your own research, it's not up to us to convince or remove the wool from your eyes.

The media throws insulting stereotypes at white players every Saturday and Sunday as well as during the draft process. It doesn't taken stats to notice this but just an open mind or one that has been freed from the brainwashing of the leftists that have turned this country upside down in the past 50 years.
I did a bit of research, but it's hard to really find anything unless you specifically go in trying to find it. If this site wants to convince me, or anyone else, then it needs to do its own analysis. There is no wool over my eyes; if someone presented me with an actual scientific study of what's going on, and it proved your conclusion, I'd be a lot more convinced than I could ever be by surfing rivals.com and checking out random recruits.
 

celticdb15

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First of all olp we have nothing to prove to you. In fact it's the other way around,you prove yourself to this site. You say you need charts,comparisons, and examples of the caste system at work all of which this site repeatedly does on a regular basis. Get to looking at some popular threads.
 

olp

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First of all olp we have nothing to prove to you. In fact it's the other way around,you prove yourself to this site. You say you need charts,comparisons, and examples of the caste system at work all of which this site repeatedly does on a regular basis. Get to looking at some popular threads.
Why do I need to prove myself to this site? I don't care if I'm accepted here. I have no argument. I'm just here with an open mind. If this site doesn't convince me, then I don't believe what it has to say and just move along. The entire point of this site, on the other hand, is to convince people! That's why I wrote the post.

I don't see any charts, I just see random comparisons between players. I see no objective hard data anywhere. I'm talking about something like a random sample of players and then regressing size, stats, rating stars, etc. over skin color.
 
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olp

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I get that most of us aren't statistics majors. I'm not one either. But I'm not going to read someone saying that Tebow is just as good as Cam Newton, yet one is cut and the other succeeds, and using that in itself to justify the argument. (Once again, to be clear, I'm questioning the premises, not the conclusion. The inability to objectively prove the premises is why the conclusion is in doubt.) I could come back with some black player with comparable stats who didn't play, and then we'd have gotten nowhere. (Think there are more white players like that? Prove it!)
 

foobar75

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Not to mention, racial slurs are strictly forbidden on this site and is against policy. Offending posts are removed and offending posters are warned and/or suspended. So, your attempt to slander the site is completely invalid. We call RGIII ugly because that's exactly what he is, not to mention a terrible QB.

Also, you claim to have spent time on this site and only see anecdotal evidence. However, the forums are full of the sort of factual and statistical research you ask for, so you haven't been looking hard enough. Plenty of posters have conducted lots of quality research and shown how white players are routinely discriminated against despite having better measurables, better stats, and better productivity.

I agree with celticdb, this site has nothing to prove to anyone. You are the one who needs to show you're not just another DWF who gets his news from ESPN and is completely unaware of the caste system that exists in the NFL.
 

olp

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Not to mention, racial slurs are strictly forbidden on this site and is against policy. Offending posts are removed and offending posters are warned and/or suspended. So, your attempt to slander the site is completely invalid. We call RGIII ugly because that's exactly what he is, not to mention a terrible QB.
Well these posts sure seem to stay up for quite a while because I see them all the time. The point is not whether you think he's ugly but why you feel the need to mention it. It's an ad hominen and it undermines your argument. Russell Wilson was voted the hottest player in the NFL in some magazine I read at the dentist's office and I don't see any posts swooning over him.

Also, you claim to have spent time on this site and only see anecdotal evidence. However, the forums are full of the sort of factual and statistical research you ask for, so you haven't been looking hard enough. Plenty of posters have conducted lots of quality research and shown how white players are routinely discriminated against despite having better measurables, better stats, and better productivity.
I see nothing other than anecdotal comparisons. Where is this research? Please link me to one "quality research" post.

I agree with celticdb, this site has nothing to prove to anyone. You are the one who needs to show you're not just another DWF who gets his news from ESPN and is completely unaware of the caste system that exists in the NFL.
I have no opinion one way or the other. If you tell me and others to go away then you're missing an opportunity to further this website's mission.
 

celticdb15

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I get that most of us aren't statistics majors. I'm not one either. But I'm not going to read someone saying that Tebow is just as good as Cam Newton, yet one is cut and the other succeeds, and using that in itself to justify the argument. (Once again, to be clear, I'm questioning the premises, not the conclusion. The inability to objectively prove the premises is why the conclusion is in doubt.) I could come back with some black player with comparable stats who didn't play, and then we'd have gotten nowhere. (Think there are more white players like that? Prove it!)

one is cut after taking over a ****ty offense and leading them to the playoffs where they upset the Pittsburgh Steelers. The very next year tebow is deemed a lost cause and the broncos respond by bringing in arguably the best QB off all time. The difference is that cam will be given ten years to prove he is a decent QB however Tim can't get one damn year. Cam was drafted on his great upside and was brought in to be the man, no competition for his job.
while tebow a white male obviously lacks that upside. Another difference is that Tim lead his team to the playoffs in rookie year while Cam has been pushed along into year 4 and is just now getting his team as likely playoff contenders in large part to kuechly who the draft experts.deemed stiff.and not explosive coming.out of BC. Anything else? Is what im saying make any sense to you?
 

olp

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one is cut after taking over a ****ty offense and leading them to the playoffs where they upset the Pittsburgh Steelers. The very next year tebow is deemed a lost cause and the broncos respond by bringing in arguably the best QB off all time. The difference is that cam will be given ten years to prove he is a decent QB however Tim can't get one damn year. Cam was drafted on his great upside and was brought in to be the man, no competition for his job.
while tebow a white male obviously lacks that upside. Another difference is that Tim lead his team to the playoffs in rookie year while Cam has been pushed along into year 4 and is just now getting his team as likely playoff contenders in large part to kuechly who the draft experts.deemed stiff.and not explosive coming.out of BC. Anything else? Is what im saying make any sense to you?
Yeah, except Tebow has gotten chances afterwards and has looked horrible. Also, leading a team to the playoffs means nothing. Mark Sanchez took his team to back-to-back AFC Championship games. I'm not saying you're wrong though; that was never the point. The point is that everyone cites random examples and I'm sure anyone could come up with random black players who inexplicably failed and the argument would get nowhere. I want actual hard facts, real studies, not some guy I've never met telling me Tebow is better than every coach seems to think he is.
 

Pie

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I don't think you're trolling, but I think your mindset may need some unclouding.

You said you want more than just anecdotal examples, but you missed the big button that says "home" where you can see a good number of posts in just the first few pages that show comparison numbers between players where the only reason one was recruited was skin color. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you really DID look for the information, but whenever you came across it your first instinct was to dismiss it as merely aberrations. That's how most people are when they come across information that makes them uncomfortable from the vantage of the status quo. If you are really interested in taking a discerning look at things, then that's something you have to do yourself. The stats are there, you have to be the one to take the red pill, as it were.

And you mentioned racial slurs being used. They do get tossed around more than is probably tasteful, but that brings us to another point: If everyone immediately started making their points, and having their discussions in the politest way possible, do you think for a second that mainstream sites, news outlets, or even the average DWF still wouldn't consider this this some sort of "neonazi hatecrime hotbed" anyway? If opponents are going to default to calling everyone with your view a Nazi no matter how you behave, you might as well get to vent from time to time. Now think if what you read here is any more offensive than what Hillis had to listen to when he featured for the Browns.

If your actually serious, then start with the numerous posts about kids who put up monster production in HS and didn't get any D1 offers, then move to the posts about kids who put up insane numbers at a proday/combine but still went undrafted. And after that look for the posts about those same guys who ended up on practice squads, only to be cut for some washed up 31yo melanin blessed free agent who hasn't had a productive season in 5 years but keeps getting chance after chance anyway.
 

Extra Point

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Olp,

Go to NFL Draft Scout and look up Paul Worrilow's measurables. He was not offered a Division 1 scholarship and was not drafted in the NFL draft.

The reason for Worrilow not getting a Division 1 scholarship and not being drafted is because he's white.

When you start seeing numerous examples of this type of thing it's obvious it's racial because the only ones with great measurables that aren't getting Division 1 scholarships are white.

So, do you believe white players are discriminated against in football?
 

white is right

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Yeah, except Tebow has gotten chances afterwards and has looked horrible. Also, leading a team to the playoffs means nothing. Mark Sanchez took his team to back-to-back AFC Championship games. I'm not saying you're wrong though; that was never the point. The point is that everyone cites random examples and I'm sure anyone could come up with random black players who inexplicably failed and the argument would get nowhere. I want actual hard facts, real studies, not some guy I've never met telling me Tebow is better than every coach seems to think he is.
There isn't one White cornerback in the entire league? Not even a practice squad scrub type. That is a statistical improbability. Just thinking about that will let you think about a scouting bias at the collegiate and pro level.
 

celticdb15

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C'mon guys give this guy some charts
he needs cold.hard facts then he might support us and show us how to take this site to the next level!
 

Kaptain

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If you're looking for some bs "statistical analysis" or magical "chart" then you are too stupid to form an independent thought anyway. Do you need a chart to get dressed in the morning or can you figure it out yourself?

This website is chuck full of stats but fools like you will dismiss every form statistical proof. After all it's not scientific or created in a lab with a control group right? Nor could it ever be.

I suppose outside the sports world the anti white agenda is just our imagination too. I suppose affirmative action is a myth, massive nonwhite immigration is good for us, and white people are all privileged. I'm sure you can find bs stats to prove it all. You could probably draw a chart that explains how the world is just a figment of our imagination. Good luck, buzz off and kiss my arse.
 

Pie

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I don't really care to do people's homework for them, so I just clicked 2 buttons. One to the homepage, and one to a rather conspicuous subforum, rather conspicuously named "Important Articles and Posts." I could be wrong, but it sounds like some important articles and posts might be in there.

I scratched the surface for you. If the following reading doesn't at least make you curious enough to dig deeper and decide for yourself one way or the other, then you are either too dumb to think for yourself(I don't think this is case), or you are a willing participant in your own discrimination.


http://www.castefootball.us/archives/just-run-baby/

http://www.castefootball.us/archive...ks-infinite-patience-for-black-running-backs/

http://www.castefootball.us/archives/black-cornerbacks-becoming-slower-than-white-fullbacks/

http://www.castefootball.us/archives/cody-who/

http://www.castefootball.us/forums/forumdisplay.php/70-Important-Articles-and-Posts
 

celticdb15

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Yeah, except Tebow has gotten chances afterwards and has looked horrible. Also, leading a team to the playoffs means nothing. Mark Sanchez took his team to back-to-back AFC Championship games. I'm not saying you're wrong though; that was never the point. The point is that everyone cites random examples and I'm sure anyone could come up with random black players who inexplicably failed and the argument would get nowhere. I want actual hard facts, real studies, not some guy I've never met telling me Tebow is better than every coach seems to think he is.[/QUOTE
I'll agree with you here Sanchez does suck. Still better than his "explosive" replacement. We dont have to discuss this whole cam vs tebow debate. I can tell itd be pointless to you but there are thousands of other examples I and other members can give you.
 

jacknyc

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Measuring or proving racism in sports is very difficult to do, short of someone saying 'we didn't draft him' or 'we didn't play him because he's white.'

So you have to take the anecdotal evidence and see if it adds up to anything.
In my mind, some of best evidence of racial profiling in football is the recruiting and drafting process.
It seems that most successful white football athletes at so called black positions - RB, WR, DE, DB - got there despite the fact that no one believed in them.
For example - Wes Welker was not invited to the NFL combine and was not drafted. He was a last minute signing to Texas Tech.
Toby Gerhart set the California HS record for rushing yards, and Stanford was the only university that recruited him as a running back. He was the best RB in college his senior year, and has barely played in the NFL.
Danny Woodhead was not given a scholarship to a Division I University and was not invited to the NFL combine and not drafted.
Obviously these guys are very talented....so why weren't teams interested in their talents?!
I don't really keep a list of all these 'anecdotes', but some guys here can probably run off a very long list of players and similar circumstances.

I've also noticed that many white college athletes who are successful at these positions were not recruited but instead 'walk-ons'.

Like I said, I don't keep a log of all these instances, but after reading and following this site for years now, I am much more aware of the 'racial profiling' in football. I don't believe it's a coincidence that white RBs and WRs are not recruited by colleges, not drafted, not played, etc.... consciously or sub-conciously it's racial profiling.
And I don't need this site to see how the media really pumps every black QB that comes up - Michael Vick, JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young, Cam Newton, RGIII, etc.
 

Carolina Speed

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I did a bit of research, but it's hard to really find anything unless you specifically go in trying to find it. If this site wants to convince me, or anyone else, then it needs to do its own analysis. There is no wool over my eyes; if someone presented me with an actual scientific study of what's going on, and it proved your conclusion, I'd be a lot more convinced than I could ever be by surfing rivals.com and checking out random recruits.


olp, here are the stats of 4 RB's in the state of North Carolina last year, can you guess which RB is white. These stats are true and factual. I will not give the names of these kids, but if you do the research you will find these are indeed true.


RB#1, 5'10 222lbs 40 time 4.92, shuttle 4.39, V-31, BP reps/185lbs. 13, No GPA listed. 1,549yds./218 att., multiple D-1 offers include Louisville, Wake Forest, ECU, and Ohio.


RB#2, 5'8 175lbs. 40 time 4.58, shuttle 4.28, V 34, BP reps/185lbs. 3, No GPA listed or stats listed. Verbal to Duke.


RB#3, 5'9 175lbs. 40 time 4.65, shuttle 4.2, V-35, BP reps/185lbs. 17, No GPA listed! 1,700yds./146 att. Multiple offers, including ECU, Louisville, Toledo, etc.


RB#4, 5'11, 198 lbs. 40 time 4.57, shuttle 4.02(number 1 time among all RB's in N.C.), V-31, BP reps/185lbs. 23 reps, GPA 4.1. 3,082 yards rushing/ 278 atts. No D-1 offers. Led the state of N.C. in the largest class, 4A, in rushing in 2012.


Which RB is white olp? Number 1, 2, 3, or 4? Then tell me there's no racism involved. These stats and information can be obtained at the N. Carolina Shrine Bowl Combine website and or rivals and scout. This is not the only case, but probably the most recent. I know others here at CF can give other cases in other states!
 

FootballDad

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All of the statistical evidence you are asking for has been posted many times over on multiple threads over the years. What, we are supposed to regurgitate these posts every week for your benefit?

It's all very simple, and easy to verify for someone willing to spend a few minutes looking. If you look at high school football from a nationwide perspective, the VAST majority of players and skill position players are white. You can get a basic idea by scanning the statistics on a site like MaxPreps. Most states also have their high school football association that keeps easy-to-decipher stats. You will find that virtually all statistical categories are dominated by white players. The overwhelming majority of state champions are also near-100% white teams.

So, you ask, why aren't these players on my favorite SEC team every Saturday? That's where the recruiting "services" come in. Every draft class is "rated" according to the numbers given to players by these services, Rivals, Scouts, ESPN, etc. It has been documented many times that white skill position players (aside from QB) are ignored, no matter how dominant they have been and/or how excellent their supposedly all-important measurables are. Bobby Bowden laughed when asked if he would recruit a white running back. Many top scouts have openly admitted that they would not recruit a white runningback or wide receiver. The discrepancy between the high school reality and the players "highly starred" on the ranking sites are amazing. College coaching staffs do not have time to scour every high school in the country for players, they rely mainly on the services for their recruiting. Heck, they have to, otherwise their jobs will be in jeopardy for a "low ranking" draft class.

Despite all of this, the few honky crackas that are allowed to play do quite well. Just look at who the best linebackers in the NFL are. There are many, many Luke Keuchlys, Sean Lees, Kiko Alonsos, etc, who didn't get the shot coming out of high school and are now selling you insurance, doing your taxes, or starting small businesses, thanks to people like you and the almighty recruiting services who ignore them simply because they don't pass what they actually call "the eye test".
 

jaxvid

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I think one should consider this a "fan" site. Members are fans of one particular team that all wear the same uniform. It's as simple as that. One does not go on a Cleveland Browns fan site as a fan of the Steelers and expect to be converted. No amount of statistics, graphs, scientific evidence, etc. is going to change that.

Browns fans will also say some pretty rough things about Steelers players. It's expected. And the language will be rough, the sentiments will ranged from rational to passionate and some will be unsuitable for work. Pretty typical stuff. Except when it's about race then many people have been conditioned to think that frank discussions of that sort are not only wrong but some kind of crime. With the direction we are headed it is pretty clear that this site will be illegal in the US within a few years.

Generally scientific evidence is not presented on a fan site. And for the most part it is true in the members forum. On the Home page however there are plenty, and I mean plenty of articles that approach our point of view from a rational and scientific point of view. You can read any article written by "Jimmy Chitwood" and many by JB Cash and you will get science and logical reasoning and real life examples of what we believe.

Here is a link to an article published also on another website by JB Cash:

http://www.castefootball.us/forums/showthread.php/8644-The-Racial-Caste-System-in-Sports

The latest one by Jimmy Chitwood:

http://www.castefootball.us/archives/just-run-baby/

In fact you can search Jimmy Chitwood's posts, just about all of them contain the kind of rational analysis that proves the point.

Also ToughJRiggins posts are very good about presenting evidence in a factual, not emotional basis.

This website has collected nearly a decade of information on this subject. Real life, true stories of the bias White athletes face. I don't expect someone to read it all but to claim it doesn't exist because they just skimmed the emotional forum posts of passionate fans and decided it wasn't there is wrong.
 

Pie

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olp, here are the stats of 4 RB's in the state of North Carolina last year, can you guess which RB is white. These stats are true and factual. I will not give the names of these kids, but if you do the research you will find these are indeed true.


RB#1, 5'10 222lbs 40 time 4.92, shuttle 4.39, V-31, BP reps/185lbs. 13, No GPA listed. 1,549yds./218 att., multiple D-1 offers include Louisville, Wake Forest, ECU, and Ohio.


RB#2, 5'8 175lbs. 40 time 4.58, shuttle 4.28, V 34, BP reps/185lbs. 3, No GPA listed or stats listed. Verbal to Duke.


RB#3, 5'9 175lbs. 40 time 4.65, shuttle 4.2, V-35, BP reps/185lbs. 17, No GPA listed! 1,700yds./146 att. Multiple offers, including ECU, Louisville, Toledo, etc.


RB#4, 5'11, 198 lbs. 40 time 4.57, shuttle 4.02(number 1 time among all RB's in N.C.), V-31, BP reps/185lbs. 23 reps, GPA 4.1. 3,082 yards rushing/ 278 atts. No D-1 offers. Led the state of N.C. in the largest class, 4A, in rushing in 2012.


Which RB is white olp? Number 1, 2, 3, or 4? Then tell me there's no racism involved. These stats and information can be obtained at the N. Carolina Shrine Bowl Combine website and or rivals and scout. This is not the only case, but probably the most recent. I know others here at CF can give other cases in other states!


Hold on, without a graph you're not being very credible.

BMP.jpg
 

Carolina Speed

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Funny! the cracker is classic!!!!!

Yes jaxvid it's funny, but very sad. The cracker will not be afforded the full scholarship to Duke, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, Stanford, etc. he deserves for his work off and on the field, instead it will be given to a kid who may have a 2.0 in high school and has no business at any of these institutions. A kid who probably won't get past his sophomore year before flunking out.

The cracker will have to play down to a D-1AA, D-II, or a D-III and or may not play at all or even attend college because his family doesn't have the money to send him to college.
 

Leonardfan

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If you want some statistical analysis check out Riddlewire's qb rating system. It is one of the best and most thought out statistical representation of the Qb position at the college level and is so much more thorough and detailed than the bogus ESPN qbr system.
 
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