2020 NFL Draft

[Bucky]

Bulaga and Bakhtiari are two of the best Tackles in The League! To this clown they are just functional and get the job done. LOL. No respect for White OL, they are clamping down hard on that! Pretty confident Cleveland will have a better career than the "premier class" of sumos listed ahead of him. In fact I'm confident in most of our dismissed OL talent that will be steals in latter rounds.

I wouldn't take Tua Top 5. Just me. I also would have a 5-7th Rd grade on overrated Love. The bum is being handled with kid gloves. Turnover machine, less talented Crab Legs!

All in all I'm just ready for This Draft to get underway. Given the myth of Covid this off-season has felt longer and more annoying than usual. I'll guess 55 of our guy's get Drafted. Right on point with @Leonardfan projections.

 

[Quiet Speed]

What great bunch of informative posts this week! Thanks to all who have taken the time to contribute. It's nice to know what names to watch for in the draft and UDFA. Of course, I'll not be watching the horseshow on TV. The updates here on Caste Football will be fun though.

 

[Shadowlight]

When evaluating prospects you really have to look at all the available information. Typically for the Wonderlic exam defensive backs will comfortably perform the worst out of all the positions which should come as no surprise watching their clueless play. You can also expect quarterbacks and offensive linemen to be at the top.

Also this test is just one of many that one has to use in evaluating. It is not the end all. But I find in general no matter what the drill or test you want players to fall within an acceptable range.

Well the QB Wonderlic scores have been released and Tua tanked it. Throw in his injury profile and his supporting cast at Alabama it raises red flags. Will this mean he will suck in the NFL? Maybe not but these things altogether are of concern. Do you really want your franchise QB tanking a think test?

Meanwhile the two top wide receivers scored poorly. Lamb had a 12 and Jerry Jeudy scored a paltry 9. Yikes. Sure Jeudy looks good on tape and ran a 4.45 40 but he also ran the 20 yard shuttle in an elephant like 4.53 seconds. For a player noted for his agility and quickness it is hard to square everything up with that molasses shuttle time. Penn State speedster KJ Hamler only scored a 15.

As expected QBs like Burrow and Herbert did very well in the brain test. Nate Stanley scored the highest for QBs at 40. I think he was rising up the boards before that score leaked but this will only help his cause further. See below quarterback scores.

https://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/20...hed-the-wonderlic-exam-while-tua-scored-a-13/

 

[Leonardfan]

A few interesting tidbits currently running on Weenieworld. Hopefully Cleveland goes in the first round:

In a poll of 17 NFL executives and scouts by The Athletic's Bob McGinn, one scout said Boise State OT Ezra Cleveland reminded him of Packers LT David Bakhtiari and Chargers RT Bryan Bulaga.
Cleveland's buzz is building of late, as NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reported the Browns could be eyeing Cleveland in a trade-down scenario from No. 10 overall. Cleveland hasn't been mentioned in the same class as Mekhi Becton, Andrew Thomas, Tristan Wirfs, and Jedrick Wills, but it does sound like Cleveland has a shot to go in the first round. “He reminds me of some of the guys Green Bay has had over the years,” said the scout. “Bulaga, Bakhtiari, guys that kind of are just functional and get the job done. They’re not spectacular, just steady." Bakhtiari is one of the best left tackles in the sport. Cleveland (6'6/311) led all tackles in the 40-yard dash (4.97), Wonderlic (30), bench press (30), short shuttle (4.46), and three-cone (7.26) at the Combine.


An anonymous NFL executive expressed "serious concern about the durability" of Alabama QB Tua Tagovailoa to The Athletic's Bob McGinn.
McGinn has conducted these polls with executives and scouts for 36 years. Quotes were made anonymous starting in 2015. That executive wasn't the only one of the 18 polled to slam Tagovailoa. "I don’t want to put my whole franchise on a left-handed, beat-up, 6-foot quarterback. No thank you," said an AFC personnel man. “He’s a great college player but, wow, he is fragile,” another AFC personnel man said. “He’s a super kid and I don’t wish ill will, but there’s three, four or five red flags staring us all in the face saying, ‘You know what? This guy’s not going to be all that he’s cracked up to be.’” Some teams have expressed concern about Tagovailoa's hip injury being a problem again in a few years, causing concern when he's due a second NFL contract. On top of the hip, Tagovailoa has also had surgeries on both ankles for high-ankle sprains, a sprained knee, and hand surgery. He's already been pretty banged up in his career. At least three teams have removed Tua from their draft boards completely. His draft night could be interesting.


In poll of 17 NFL executives and scouts by The Athletic's Bob McGinn, one scout said Utah State's Jordan Love "has the most physical upside of any" quarterback in the draft.
“The great ones make things look easy," the scout continued. "He makes it look easy. He’s an effortless thrower. He played with nobody around him. This year he was just out there winging it trying to make plays to win games. Did he develop some bad habits? Yeah, of course he did. But you can rein that in. It’s (easier) to get guys that like to play it safe and check down and be chain-movers. It’s hard to get those guys that push the ball down the field. He’s the only quarterback I ever scouted who will throw into bigger windows as a pro than he did in college. Those guys did not get open for him. If he ends up outside the top 10 we could be saying, ‘How the heck did Jordan Love last that long?’ He’s just got that play-making ability.” Evaluations have been split on Love all draft season, and that continued in McGinn's poll, as another couple scouts said Love "didn’t look like he knew what he was doing" at Utah State and questioned his "poor decisions, focus, his vision, and accuracy against pressure." Love will be a fascinating player to track at the NFL level.

The excuses around Jordan Love are pretty hilarious.

 

[Bucky]

Bamas OT Jederick Willis a 9 on his wonderlic first attempt. LOL. Takes it 2nd time and was obviously guided to a 23.

No one mentions Jeudys pedestrian short shuttle time besides you @Shadowlight ! Very valid point! That's very slow for a skill position afflete. Leads me to believe he's tight in the hips.

In contrast take former Wisconsin Backup LB and likely UDFA, Tyler Johnson. He recorded a 4.15 short shuttle at 6'3 240lbs! Even "an average" White LB smokes Jeudy in the short shuttle. Yet we're led to believe Jeudy is a can't miss, Top 15 prospect.

 

[Leonardfan]

Bamas OT Jederick Willis a 9 on his wonderlic first attempt. LOL. Takes it 2nd time and was obviously guided to a 23.

No one mentions Jeudys pedestrian short shuttle time besides you @Shadowlight ! Very valid point! That's very slow for a skill position afflete. Leads me to believe he's tight in the hips.

In contrast take former Wisconsin Backup LB and likely UDFA, Tyler Johnson. He recorded a 4.15 short shuttle at 6'3 240lbs! Even "an average" White LB smokes Jeudy in the short shuttle. Yet we're led to believe Jeudy is a can't miss,prospect Top 15 prospect.

I really dislike Zack Baun out of Wisconsin. If he were white he would be written off as a stereotypical big 10 lineback much like several of the white Wisconsin LBs that have come into the league - Biegel, Van Ginkle, Schobert and Connolly. None of those guys had any of the fanfare or hype of this Baun guy.

 

[Bucky]

I really dislike Zack Baun out of Wisconsin. If he were white he would be written off as a stereotypical big 10 lineback much like several of the white Wisconsin LBs that have come into the league - Biegel, Van Ginkle, Schobert and Connolly. None of those guys had any of the fanfare or hype of this Baun guy.

Of course Baun is getting a ton of positive press, he's half Afflete!

Can't say I disagree with the hype he's received, though I will say he's a pretty complete player and took the long route to be a starter partially because he was playing behind some of the guys mentioned above. Shadowlight mentioned something about him having a diluted urine sample at the Combine. If true that's been conveniently swept under the rug and should be held against him!

 

[Shadowlight]

I am grappling with trying to figure out how Jerry Jeudy's 9 score on the the Wonderlic exam translates into in the real world. Does he need assistance tying his shoes? Does he need a map to run a pass pattern?

Below is a list of the top wide receiver prospect's Wonderlic score. Then it dawned on me. Yes it is "The Year of the Wide (black) Receiver." But there was a minor misprint. It should read "The Year of the Birdbrain Wide Receiver." See below the conglomerate of brilliant minds.

And yes Baun would have been punished under the old agreement but they eased up on drug use with the new agreement.

https://www.knbr.com/2020/04/16/wonderlic-scores-released-for-wr-prospects-jeudy-and-lamb-struggle/

 

[Red Raider]

When evaluating prospects you really have to look at all the available information. Typically for the Wonderlic exam defensive backs will comfortably perform the worst out of all the positions which should come as no surprise watching their clueless play. You can also expect quarterbacks and offensive linemen to be at the top.

Also this test is just one of many that one has to use in evaluating. It is not the end all. But I find in general no matter what the drill or test you want players to fall within an acceptable range.

Well the QB Wonderlic scores have been released and Tua tanked it. Throw in his injury profile and his supporting cast at Alabama it raises red flags. Will this mean he will suck in the NFL? Maybe not but these things altogether are of concern. Do you really want your franchise QB tanking a think test?

Meanwhile the two top wide receivers scored poorly. Lamb had a 12 and Jerry Jeudy scored a paltry 9. Yikes. Sure Jeudy looks good on tape and ran a 4.45 40 but he also ran the 20 yard shuttle in an elephant like 4.53 seconds. For a player noted for his agility and quickness it is hard to square everything up with that molasses shuttle time. Penn State speedster KJ Hamler only scored a 15.

As expected QBs like Burrow and Herbert did very well in the brain test. Nate Stanley scored the highest for QBs at 40. I think he was rising up the boards before that score leaked but this will only help his cause further. See below quarterback scores.

https://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/20...hed-the-wonderlic-exam-while-tua-scored-a-13/

My short shuttle is faster than that, maybe I should be a top 15 draft pick!

Jeudy doesn’t seem to be anything special to me, I don’t think he’s bad but I don’t think he’s great. I would definitely not spend a first round pick on probably any wide receiver in this draft expect maybe Lamb.

 

[Extra Point]

They keep saying it's a great wide receiver class but I don't see it. Maybe it has great depth but the ones at the top seem to have too many flaws.

 

[Red Raider]

They keep saying it's a great wide receiver class but I don't see it. Maybe it has great depth but the ones at the top seem to have too many flaws.

I agree with you, a lot of decent receivers but not any can’t miss guys. I’d say a lot of round 3-5 guys, nothing like what they’re hyping it up to be. I’ve said it before but last year definitely had a better WR class.

 

[Leonardfan]

Take this for what it's worth. Perhaps a slightly positive sign for some of our guys.




Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
·
15h

I had a GM tell me, “The media is wronger about mock drafts this year than you guys have ever been.” Point being, players are going to be taken in places no one expects.

 

[Shadowlight]

Let us compare a WR from this so called "special" class who is showing up on every mock draft and a star WR from 2019 who did not get drafted despite showing up on every mock draft. Both from Power 5 schools so a very even playing field.

Quintez Cephus--6'1 202 ---his combine numbers 4.73 40>>>>>>>>>> STOP!!!! I am usually pretty tolerant with 40 yard dash times as long as they are within the acceptable range. 4.7 plus speed from a wide receiver is an automatic disqualifier. I would pick a RB with that kind of speed but never a wide receiver.

But for the sake of comparisons a few more notes on Cephus. A 38.5 vertical is very good. His agility drill scores were below average at best. Well he must have put up some big stats. Well not a bad senior year with a 59-901-7 stat line. Junior year was just 30-501-6. Anything else? There is this unresolved sexual assault manner.

My scout take: Not even worth thinking about for one second. Draft grade: Garbage bin.

David Sills-6'3" 211--his combine numbers were a 4.57 40 and a 37.5 vertical. He also ran under 7 seconds in the three cone drill. His stats? Senior year 65-986-15. Junior year 60-986-18.

My scout take: Former intelligent QB who produced touchdowns at an incredible rate. Mind blowing 33 TDs in two years! Scored from deep. Also a red zone terror with his size, body control and leaping ability. Needs some seasoning since he is still new to the position but nowhere to go but up. Draft grade :Round 3-5.

 

[Extra Point]

Take this for what it's worth. Perhaps a slightly positive sign for some of our guys.




Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
·
15h

I had a GM tell me, “The media is wronger about mock drafts this year than you guys have ever been.” Point being, players are going to be taken in places no one expects.

Along this line, Walter Football said that according to sources, Oregon guard Shane Lemieux is considered a borderline first rounder by some teams. We will see.

 

[Bucky]

Let's hope Rap is right and the draft dweebs are way off.

 

[Don Wassall]

So best case scenario, two White QBs, one tackle and one guard in the first round? The two QBs are assured but not the tackle and guard. The second and third rounds also scare me, going by Leonardfan's guide above. I hope it's not until the fourth round that some of the surprises start occurring. . .

 

[Shadowlight]

Browsing Rappaport's twitter he mentioned multiple players at the combine were flagged for their drug tests. Top ten pick Mekhi Becton joins Zak Baun as the latest player cited. Players know they can get away with more due to the new agreement. Expects to see more and more drug cheating as we move forward. So an already suspect situation just got even more shadier.

And don't expect any media outrage. In baseball their lips are sealed as widespread Hispanic drug cheating chugs along. In football in order for them to make an issue of it would mean a direct confrontation with the black players and that apparently is not going to happen. It hasn't happened in the past so there is no reason to think it will now especially in light of the fact the NFL is "winking" at the cheaters at this point.

 

[The Hock]

I bought a draft magazine. This draft looks like the worst in several years. No RBs. No DBs. No WRs. Nada. Damn few LBs. DL's few and far between. Very discouraging. Why bother?

So of course I bought another draft mag. Same pattern. Lots of nada.

I hope we're having a really bad year. Although every year is pretty bad. But this one is extra bad.

 

[Leonardfan]

I bought a draft magazine. This draft looks like the worst in several years. No RBs. No DBs. No WRs. Nada. Damn few LBs. DL's few and far between. Very discouraging. Why bother?

So of course I bought another draft mag. Same pattern. Lots of nada.

I hope we're having a really bad year. Although every year is pretty bad. But this one is extra bad.

Don't pay attention to the draft magazines. I would just refer to this thread for any draft info - I think all of us who contribute to the thread have a good knowledge of the draft. Save your money my good man!

 

[Shadowlight]

Follow the bouncing ball. Perhaps because I am bias it seems to me the best way to analyze a draft from a caste perspective is to track the wide receiver position. Wide receivers seem like a weathervane when it comes to the NFL draft. Below is a list of the white wide receivers chosen in the past ten drafts with a few notes.

2010-(5) -Jordan Shipley, Eric Decker, Riley Cooper, Kerry Meier, Marc Mariani--Terrific. Worth noting both Cooper and Decker were great baseball players too. Decker became a star and Cooper was on the verge until he was unfairly blackballed. Promising Shipley tore his ACL which hampered his progress and Mariani hung around as return specialist.

2011-(2)-Kris Durham, Ryan Whalen-- Whalen managed to hang around on the margins for a spell.

2012-(3)-Devon Wylie, Danny Coale, Jeremy Ebert--All three were fast but they never got anywhere.

2013-(1)- Ryan Swope--In one of the grimmest moments here at CF this speedster never got out of the gate. Head injuries were just beginning to become a concern. Much like Tanner Muse, Swope displayed great speed going back to high school but like Muse none of the pre draft gurus mentioned his speed so it was a "surprise" when he ripped off a 4.3 plus 40 at the combine.

2014-(3)-Jared Abbrederis, Michael Campanaro, Jeff Janis--I really liked this group. Bucky was partying since the Pack picked two of them. But Jared tore his ACL right before the season and never ever got back on track. Campanaro had some moments but injuries were a problem. Speedster Janis was turned into a special teams player.

2015-(0)--This is probably where we are headed this draft. A big fat ugly goose egg. Jordan Taylor should have been drafted here.

2016-(2)-Moritz Bohringer, Daniel Braverman-- A very strange draft. The Vikings took a rare flier on the speedster German and Braverman, like so many other white draft prospects, got lost in the thrush. Oddly the best of the lot Alex Erickson was not drafted.

2017-(4)-Cooper Kupp, Ryan Switzer, Chad Hansen, Trent Taylor-- So much promise here yet the results are muted. Kupp is a genuine star. Switzer is a great mystery. Stereotyped into a return specialist will he hang on to a roster this season?

2018-(5)-Justin Watson, Dylan Cantrell, Braxton Berrios, Austin Proehl, Trey Quinn--Wild is the only way to describe this one. Proehl was taken next to last and highly rated Quinn fell to being the last pick. Watson we hope can build on last season and blossom now. Cantrell has had injury issues. Berrios bounced to the Jets and has shown himself to be a top flight punt returner and underused WR see Ryan Switzer. Proehl was blowing up in the recent XFL and now is being ignored by the NFL for a second time. Quinn like Switzer is in a precarious spot.

2019-(3)-Andy Isabella, Hunter Renfrow, Scott Miller--One could write a mini novel about this draft. Isabella was the highest drafted white WR for the decade (2nd round 62nd pick). The lowly Cardinals then proceeded to ignore this ultra exciting speedster. Then in this off season they brought in a C-blocking WR. And rumors are they are looking to draft yet another WR. This stuff rates high on the piss off meter. Renfrow paid off in spades for the Raiders. Speedster Miller was a genuine surprise. No media outlet bolstered his profile more than CF. He also has a chance to prove himself with the Bucs but will Tampa Bay C-block him too by drafting over his head? The elephant in the room here is David Sills not getting drafted. While last year's draft had a lot going for it Sills not getting called took a lot of air out of the balloon. Cody Thompson was another player who should have been drafted.

2020-(?)--Sadly we are probably looking at 2015 all over again. The only two that have any chance in hell Chris Finke and Mason Kinsey are considered off fringe players which means they are seen as 8-9 round draft picks. There are only seven rounds. Is there any hope? Well two players come to mind that slipped into the draft in recent years that were shocks when you factor in most all media outlets did not have either in their mock drafts, Austin Proehl and Scotty Miller.

So long shots to be sure. At this point we can only hope Finke and/or Kinsey get chosen. The odds are against it.

 

[TomIron361]

This thing about Mekhi Becton is interesting. Can you imagine how much pressure the agents of these slobs are under trying to keep these guys from doing something stupid right before the draft? Well, that guy, Becton isn't going as high as was thought now. I feel bad for his agent.

 

[Shadowlight]

Actually my contention is that with the just agreed upon laxer rules regarding drugs black players need not worry too much about their draft status being affected even if they are red flagged. I read right after Zauk Baun got caught with his hand in the cookie jar that it would not affect where he is drafted one iota.

NFL brass do not seem to care all that much if ( mainly black) players are cheating and I firmly believe they have known for ages now that some players like defensive backs are juicing up who have found ways to get around the low level NFL testing system. If you ask me what seems most important to the NFL is making sure a cruise ship load of black players get drafted every year.

Since I brought up the wide receiver situation I do want to give my draft analysis of both Chris Finke and Mason Kinsey,

Chris Finke: Player comp: Hunter Renfrow. A very mysterious player. Like Renfrow, Finke was a walk on who on talent alone forged his way into the line at a major football school. I do not think Finke quite has the level of talent as Renfrow as a wide receiver. In fact I can't say for certain Finke will have a great career lined up at the slot. He struggled early on in the season especially the game against Georgia. But as the season wore on his skills came to the forefront. It is very difficult to ascertain his future at slot in the NFL. But he displayed enough skills to warrant getting drafted.

What appeals to me most about Finke is his utility skills. While he can play the slot it is his punt return skills that should more readily translate into the NFL. While the media hops on a flashy return or two from black returners that doesn't make up for being a smart and steady return man. Many of these flashy types make egregious errors throughout the season. Below is a list that is essential for NFL punt returners.

1-Sure hands and not a fumbler.

2-Ability to gain forward yardage. Which means not running backwards looking for the big play all the time.

3-Ability to run down tough punts to ensure better field position.

4-The knowledge to know which punts are worth catching and which punts are worth letting go. In other words making sure he is putting his team in the best possible field position situation.

5 Knowing when to fair catch or not.

Finke is very seasoned and checks all of the above boxes.

Now Finke's real speed is probably around 4.45-4.49 but he made the grave error of running the 40 while nursing a hamstring pull. The injury was bad enough for him to skip the passing drills at the combine. Stupid is all you can say. He did sport a 40 inch vertical.

Draft Grade: I see Finke as a solid 7th round pick. A development at slot and a solid and safe return man.


Mason Kinsey: Player comp: Alex Erickson. Kinsey comes from a very small school and that is always an issue. Unless of course you are black wide receivers from mighty Rhode Island, both who are on draft boards and were at the combine. Luckily Kinsey was invited to the Shrine Bowl and scouts saw up close he was not out of his depth. His quickness and slot skills stood out there but sadly he was not invited to the combine.

Kinsey is very skilled and isn't strictly a possession receiver. He has legitimate 4.4 speed and has core strength to boot. His dad is a body builder. He also has the kind of deep speed which only reinforces his all around ability. He has a very high athletic profile and destroyed his competition which admittedly was weak. Add in his impressive return skills and you have well rounded prospect.

Draft Grade: I have to dock him at least a round or two due to his small school background but that still places him as an easy 6th or early 7th round pick. Kinsey is the best pure white wide receiver in the draft and is better than half of the so called great black wide receivers in this class who are penciled in to get drafted. His ceiling is very high which means if everything turns out right he could resemble a superstar player like Adam Thielen.

 

[Bucky]

This thing about Mekhi Becton is interesting. Can you imagine how much pressure the agents of these slobs are under trying to keep these guys from doing something stupid right before the draft? Well, that guy, Becton isn't going as high as was thought now. I feel bad for his agent.

Don't. Lol the weasel agent will be just fine. Becton looks to be seriously falling. On top of his flagged drug test the man is 6'7 370lbs. Couple Big Macs away from eating himself out of the League. Apparently this anonymous scout believes he could be a bust because he likes cooking more than football. Lol "cooking" more like eating everything in sight. Huge red flag to me.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...ton-may-enjoy-cooking-more-than-football/amp/

 

[Leonardfan]

Don't. Lol the weasel agent will be just fine. Becton looks to be seriously falling. On top of his flagged drug test the man is 6'7 370lbs. Couple Big Macs away from eating himself out of the League. Apparently this anonymous scout believes he could be a bust because he likes cooking more than football. Lol "cooking" more like eating everything in sight. Huge red flag to me.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...ton-may-enjoy-cooking-more-than-football/amp/

I agree 100% with your logic. However we have seen the draft and NFL decision makers lack logic. Remember how the Tunsil video was leaked of him with a weed gas mask on - he only dropped to 13th and is now somehow considered the top LT in the league. The NFL misses on so many draft picks every year yet these same idiots never learn from their mistakes. I do hope that some of these overrated projected 1st round sumos do drop and we see some white OL get picked higher than projected.

 

[Bucky]

TE Cole Kmet , C Tyler Biadasz, DL James Lynch, G Shane Lemieux,and Ezra Cleveland all fringe 1st rounders to me. Plus Herbert and Burrow as locks. Hell maybe Love even drops out and Fromm/Eason may slide in. All speculation at this point.