UFC 71

[michiganblkman]

I had just left my favorite country western dance bar, Desperados, and luckily walked into the
Buffalo Wild Wings in downtown Mount Clemens, Michigan as saw the fight on the big screen there. I had no idea that they
were
going to have the fight on, and for FREE even. I only wanted some wings after dancing.

When i walked in, the place was unsually crowded and it mustve been literally seconds after Jackson had knocked out Liddell.
As I was waiting on my wings that I ordered I curiously noticed the the faces of the black and white partrons.
While it was impossible to read their minds, here is what I interpreted.

On the black faces I saw a look of "I told you so. This UFC shyt is fake and all it takes is a REAL brother to get in
there and show them how its done."

On the white faces, I saw the look of, "I want to be PC, but I am pretty dissapointed at how it turned out. This is NOT Kool at all."

It was dissapointing.

Further, how could I tell it was dissapointing for the white patrons?
I have been in that place when the local sports teams, the redwings, the tigers, the pistons, lions, etc have all played games that were telecast on the big screens they have
and when they win, the bar stays packed for several hours AFTER the game. And when the local teams lose,the bar immediately empties out and it becomes a ghost town QUICKLY.

This time , the latter happend. As i was waiting for my wings and they kept replaying the knockout and I stood there wondering if I was going to be able to find a seat to eat.
By the time my wings arrived, only 15 minutes later, the place was a ghost town and I literally had my pick of tables to sit at.

It was like the home team had lost.

IMHO, who else i think may have lost?

For one, Buffalo Wild Wings lost because of the extra hours of rip roaring business it lost out on because Liddell, the home team,
lost and the white patrons, who spend more money by the way, immediately left.

And two, I think MMA across america lost because, if Liddell had've gone in there and manhandled Jackson,
it wouldve promoted more of a "I can do this too" attitude from some of the white patrons, and possibly
prompted a few white people that watched the fight to go out and sign up for Jiu Jitsu lessons.
Plus, I think that MMA is still in its infancy and it wouldve been a big boost to have charismatic white champion to
get it further off of the ground and even deeper into the mainstream.
(Is that too much a stretch of my imagination?)

Ironically, earlier that evening, while I was in Desperados, I made a comment to two brothers (white guys) that I regularly see at the
bar about the reality show UFC reruns that they were broadcasting on the big screens. One of the brothers proceeded to
tell me about a female friend they have,
Megan (her real name), that had taken some jiu jitsu lessons and demonstrated a Jiu Jitsu choke on one of the brothers and
made him pass out. They thought it was funny. When they showed me what choked she used, it was a common collar choke.
They were none the wiser, but they were still amused about how Megan had put on of the brothers on his ass.
So I asked them where she trained, but they had no idea. (I wanted to narrow down where she was training at because
Jiu Jitsu academies arent on every corner like McDonalds)
Further, I asked the thinner brother if he had ever thought about taking lessons and how much he weighed. He replied, "I only weigh about 155 tops" and he said it no so confident manner because maybe he had a complex about being a thinner guy.
I then told him that Jiu Jitsu was tailored for thinner guys and almost every thin guy I have ever rolled with on the mat that had put any time in traininng was an awesome grappler. I gave Royce Gracie as a glaring example.
He said he would give it some thought and midly amused and interested

Why did I tell this story? (true story)

Because I think the the results last nite may have prevented guys like this one from going out and giving MMA a try. The little extra nudge that they need. Using Megan as an example is nice, but Liddell wouldve been a MUCH Better marketing tool.
If Liddell wins, you get 10,000 guys who suddenly give MMA a try, you might end up with 100 legitimate figthers out of that, and out of that you might get 1 champion. (May half ass attrition model. LOL)

Will Jacksons victory prompt potential black MMA'ers to go out and get lessons? My prediction is a confident "no". I cant really pinpoint the reasons why I say that.


Just my ramble and rant.

 

[Guest]

You'll notice that when the issue of low black IQ is brought up, it wasn't

denied, even by the trollster.

Probably because I agree with it. Blacks having lower IQ scores
than whites is a fact that is beyond dispute. The only questions
are why and what does it men.



This is a sports forum though, so why is it brought up? Maybe
because some white guys, despite having the world on their (or our?)
doorstep, still have complex about anyone beating them at anything.

Rua is white. His knees sure looked white smashing into Jackson's face.

Althought he might be part mestizo because they did look a bit red by the

end of the match. As difficult as it is for some to belive, white people live in

other countries outside of the United States.

It's amazing how people become white on this forum if it's
convenient. But I guess that's the history of the Western
world. How the Irish Became White indeed.

 

[Guest]

No agenda what so ever.

Correct. There is no agenda.

A few recommendations for the agenda crowd:

1) Watch boxing. Understand what happens when talent pools are big. Understand that guys ranked in the 20s in their weight class can and do lose, and that it is a regular part of a major sport.

2) Watch PRIDE. Realize that UFC fighters only make up half of the talent pool.

3) Stop pretending that low ranked black fighers never got their asses kicked by white fighters.

 

[Guest]

Is Ivan Salaverry white? Just curious...

 

[Bart]

You'll notice that when the issue of low black IQ is brought up, it wasn't
denied, even by the trollster.

Probably because I agree with it. Blacks having lower IQ scores than whites is a fact that is beyond dispute. The only questions are why and what does it men.

We all know why, and it's obvious what it means.

 

[White Shogun]

Lots of posts since I last logged on, no way I can comment on everything. But in general:

1) Chuck *is* old and was bound to lose sooner or later. As for being out of shape, Chuck has always had a gut but he still has some definition. He did look a little less in shape for this fight than in others, but honestly they fought less than 2 minutes and he got hit right in the jaw. Unfortunately, even if Chuck had six-pack abs they are not connected to the jaw and do not protect anyone from a haymaker.

2) I commented to the people watching the fight with me that Chuck looked bone dry. Rampage wasn't much better but he had what looked like a light sheen of sweat on his face. I do think coming in dry makes a difference. It's one of the things people analyze when boxers come into the ring, along with the walk and the stare-down.

3) Chuck did look intimidated during the stare-down.

4) There IS an agenda to bring in more black and Hispanic fighters. Dana White said so himself. I'll do some research and see if I can find the interview. I believe it was commented on in this forum previously. If that isn't plainly stated enough for you, no amount of evidence will convince you that the UFC *wants* more minority fighters. Peruse any of the regular MMA message boards and you will find numerous threads about how racist and redneck the UFC is for not having more minority fighters. They also complain that the UFC itself has an agenda to keep blacks from being champions by not giving blacks more title fights. Well, I guess Dana and the crew have taken care of that, haven't that?

5) You're crazy if you think the UFC lost 'millions' with Chuck Liddell losing this fight. Chuck is a *ahem*, colorful character but as far as interviews go he is boring as hell. Rampage always gives a good interview, he can be funny, and will give the sports writers enough material to write several articles in one interview. The UFC would not have signed Rampage to fight Liddell if it mattered to them if Chuck lost or not. I am of the opinion that they probably preferred Chuck to lose. Like I said, Rampage is more colorful, he's a better interview, he's younger and will be around longer, and he is PC-approved.

Neither Rampage or Chuck Liddell is a scrub. Chuck may be a bit on the decline but he is no Ken Shamrock and he has beaten some very good fighters in his day. Let's give credit where credit is due, to both Rampage and Liddell, and come back again and fight another day.

 

[White Shogun]

From the article:

Yeah, obviously, I'm going after other demographics. Women isn't one of them. One of the things we've always said is we know what this is for -- it's for males 18-34. And if women watch, that's just gravy for us -- that's beautiful. And our female fan base has grown incredibly. But to go out and market toward women would be very expensive and not make much sense. But, I'm going after Hispanic and urban [fans].

One-on-one with UFC President Dana White

The [fans] in brackets indicate that the word was added by the interviewer for clarification. However, how would one attract more Hispanic or 'urban' viewers in the first place? It certainly wouldn't be by adding more white-bread fighters to the rolls, would it?

 

[jaxvid]

You'll notice It's amazing how people become white on this forum if it's
convenient.  But I guess that's the history of the Western
world.  How the Irish Became White indeed.

You haven't read much on this forum. The subject of who is white based on their ancestery had filled up many a thread. With lots of controversy too.

The "How the Irish Became White" comment is misplaced, we argue whiteness based mainly upon genetics, the issue you mention was purely cultural as there are few people alive as "white" as the Irish.

 

[Sean]

Sports are never indicative of the United States' population when black people are involved.

That's for sure. When blacks are not present, every possible step is taken to integrate them into it. Look at the Washington Redskins football who was forced by the U.S. Government to take black players. Why is integration always so important when there are no whites. Now that we have a flipside, nothing is being done.

Who in the UFC? Tito? Rashad? Lyoto?
Jardine? They are the other top fighters in the UFC division
depending on whether you count Shogun yet or not. And none of
them will beat Rampage unless it's an upset.

Shogun will be over, and could beat Rampage. Should Chuck be given a rematch (since he was a dominant champion) he will have the same 50/50 sluggers chance. After a few more fights I am positive Bisping will be able to take him. Brandon Vera (as was mentioned earlier) could beat Rampage right now, but needs more activity. You think Tito's now happy about this?

The problem is that we have nothing to work with here.  My "What
If?" deals with people who actually FIGHT rather than who wasn't
born.  And last time I checked, black countries are engaged in
much more warfare than white countries...since we're talking about
millions here.

Some punk who fights with knives and guns in the ghetto obviously doesn't translate over into the sporting world, otherwise Ron Lyle would have done better.

As for warfare, yes black nations in Africa fight more, but you need to look at the scale. Throwing a spear at somebody is not quite like firebombing London is it? 20-30 million Russians alone died in World war II. There are not that many spears in Africa. And these modern day warlords (with their Russian weapons) don't kill near as many people as whites have lost in major wars.

 

[PitBull]

If anything is convenient, its forgetting that the currrent champ was
owned three times and looked horrible when it happened. One of the
guys, in spite of the fact that he isn't living in Europe or America, is
clearly white. How convenient it is to ignore the fact that there are whites
in South America, particularly in Brazil and Argentina when it serves the
purpose of demeaning them. Forty percent wil be 20% real soon.

I think IQ was brought up when some newbie poster started talking about
stereotypes. Of course, its time to change the topic when that issue is
raised.

I think Liddell didn't train very well for the fight and dropped it, taking the
money. There are a lot of older fighters who do that. Its obvious he
doesn't like training and getting in shape anymore. I think he has all the
money he needs. If I were Dana White, I wouldn't be very happy about it.
Jardine got hammered. Overrated. The other two? Who is really worried?

If I were Rua or Silva, I'd be getting measured for the belt right now. I'd
also be buying some Bactine for my knees.

PS Blacks in Africa mostly fight with guns and kill indiscriminately.Edited by: PitBull

 

[Gary]

This Joe Sixpack reminds me of pignuts! When Golota lost to Brewster he came on this site and was so happy, until Wlad beat Byrd,Lyahovich beat Brewster,Maskeav beat Rahman,Wlad beat Samuel Peter,etc,etc then he left and we didn't hear from him again! He never comes here unless a black man wins which means we can expect him once or twice a year.
As far as wars in Africa lets face it hi-tech weapons in Africa are spears dipped in monkey crap that's not on a scale with European hi-tech weapons.
It took years for the Italians to move ahead of the Irish in boxing [as the Irish climbed the social ladder] and years before the blacks moved ahead of the Italians in boxing BUT the Russians took over and moved ahead of the colored boys in less then 10 years!!!!! That is PHENOMINAL!!!

 

[JD074]

It's all about match-ups. This was just a bad match-up. Jackson has his number. Liddell needs to be a significantly better striker than his opponent to win. And he's basically a one-dimensional striker, as far as MMA is concerned. He doesn't throw a lot of kicks and knees. From what I can remember, Silva and Rua mixed in plenty of knees to finish off Jackson. Before the fight, I didn't really envision Jackson getting KO'd purely with punches, so I knew it was going to be a rough ride for the Iceman.

Man, it is so easy to lose in MMA! Because of 4 oz. gloves/ knees/ kicks, it's so easy to drop someone. And because of ground and pound, it's so easy to quickly finish someone. And because of its reputation as "human cockfighting," the UFC doesn't want to take any risks and stop fights as quickly as possible. This is the big difference between boxing and MMA, in my opinion: you don't really see an elite boxer KO another elite boxer in two minutes like this.

It's very disappointing, but I'm not actually as upset as I thought I would be. Probably because I've been paying more attention to boxing than MMA lately. It is a bad loss because Jackson is the quintessential black athlete: nothing but raw athleticism and trash talking. Perfect Caste athlete. It is very telling that this was the fight that got so much attention on ESPN. What about Liddell/ Ortiz II? What about Couture's sensational comeback? And Shogun has showed that White is deliberately seeking the Hispanic/ "urban" demographics. That's what bothers me, more so than the actual KO. The idea that if a sport is predominantly white male, there's something inherently wrong with it.

I'm just glad that Kelly Pavlik demolished Edison Miranda! I'm still happy about that.Miranda is just like Jackson, raw athleticism and a big f*cking mouth. Usually, the disappointments last longer than the victories for me. I guess I'm a pessimist that way. But right now I'm glad it's the opposite. Edited by: JD074

 

[Guest]

That's for sure. When blacks are not present, every possible
step is taken to integrate them into it. Look at the Washington
Redskins football who was forced by the U.S. Government to take black
players. Why is integration always so important when there are no
whites. Now that we have a flipside, nothing is being done.

FORCED segregation is far different from ability segregation.

Shogun will be over, and could beat Rampage. Should Chuck be
given a rematch (since he was a dominant champion) he will have the
same 50/50 sluggers chance. After a few more fights I am positive
Bisping will be able to take him. Brandon Vera (as was mentioned
earlier) could beat Rampage right now, but needs more activity. You
think Tito's now happy about this?

Chuck does not have a 50/50 chance. He's now been owned twice,
worse the second time. What has given you the idea that Bisping
is even in the same league as Rampage right now? As for Vera,
that's a possiblity. The Filipino Vera may very well be the great
white hope that can beat Page. He IS a heavyweight afterall.

Some punk who fights with knives and guns in the ghetto
obviously doesn't translate over into the sporting world, otherwise Ron
Lyle would have done better.

Going almost the full distance with Ali and flooring Foreman is pretty
impressive. But there are a multitude of talented boxers who
started as streetfighters and in detention facilities. Mike Tyson
and Bernard Hopkins are the best two recent examples. Since
street fights and MMA are an even better fit one can only imagine what
would happen if some enterprising MMA gym owner opened up a gym in the
ghetto and started grooming fighters. A high-risk propisition
considering the tinderbox that is the contemporary black male, but one
that has a good chance of paying off.

As for warfare, yes black nations in Africa fight more, but
you need to look at the scale. Throwing a spear at somebody is not
quite like firebombing London is it? 20-30 million Russians alone died
in World war II. There are not that many spears in Africa. And these
modern day warlords (with their Russian weapons) don't kill near as
many people as whites have lost in major wars.

First of all, harrah for those who never invented nuclear weapons.



Second, while white people were killing eachother, we were also killing
black people. As was disease and poverty. ALOT of them.

 

[Guest]

If anything is convenient, its forgetting that the currrent champ was

owned three times and looked horrible when it happened. One of the

guys, in spite of the fact that he isn't living in Europe or America, is

clearly white.

Who's forgetting? I fully expect Shogun to beat Rampage. I
just think it's funny that Shogun is now considered white. He
damn sure wouldn't be if he were in the border area. Silva was,
ironically, NOT considered the "whiter" man when he fought the Native
American Dan Henderson in an older post.

I think IQ was brought up when some newbie poster started talking about

stereotypes. Of course, its time to change the topic when that issue is

raised.

SPORT stereotypes on a SPORT forum. The IQ point was merely
brought in for white guys to feel superior about something on a day
that is clearly not your (our?) day for once. I also agreed with
the IQ point btw but mentioned that it might not be safe to bring up in
mixed company.

 

[C Darwin]

FORCED segregation is far different from
ability segregation.

This is why I'm not entering my lovley wife in the Ms. Black America
Beauty Pageant.

 

[Guest]

FORCED segregation is far different from

ability segregation.

This is why I'm not entering my lovley wife in the Ms. Black America

Beauty Pageant.

You don't think she can win?

 

[Poacher]

As far as Hendo's ethnicity...

Taken from this interview:

[url]http://fightsport.com/fightsport/news/2005_12_04_fightsport_ archive.html[/url]


Question: What is your ethnic background?

Henderson: English, French & Indian plus some other sh@t.

 

[Don Wassall]

It never fails to amaze me how many trolls seem to have nothing else to do but post on here 18 hours a day.Apparently looking for a job is less important that posting non-stop on a board whereno one agrees with him and the posting guidelines make clear that he'snot welcome. If youUFC posterswant "Joe" gone just say the word.

 

[C Darwin]

You don't think she can win?

I don't think she would be allowed to participate. She is very
beautiful and would also score well in the "ability" categories. Just
shining the light on how white organizations are forced to integrate
other races while other races are permitted to segregate others from
"their own" events.

 

[Poacher]

If you UFC posters want "Joe" gone just say the word.

Well Don I don't know, a troll in the MMA forum is such a rarity that seeing JSP's posts is almost like seeing a unicorn or something.

 

[Sean]

Joe Sixpack,

You write so many LONG posts, and you never say anything with any real meaning.

Forced segregation? Other teams had blacks at that time. The Redskins didn't want any, and were forced to take them. I wonder what you're thoughts are (though I actually don't care what you think) on Travis Jervey, Nick Hartigan, Jessie Lumsden etc who were overlooked due to our modern policy of forced segregation.

Chuck has a 50/50 chance just like always. Bisping can grapple, and take good shots, trust me, he can beat Rampage.

You're posts on the tough street fighting blacks who end up in jail is almost laughable. Now we cannot claim our white champions are true champions because they never fought the punks in prison? Please!

 

[SVcabron]

Rampage has not been the same fighter since his second Silva beatdown. Rampage got the fighting spirit out of him that night. Rampage just has Chucks's number. I would take Henderson and Bisping over Rampage at this point. Of course Shogun would kill him, again.

 

[PitBull]

Rua is also conveniently non-white when it suits your purpose too. I guess
next you'll be telling us Italians aren't white.

You're the one that brought up the stereotype that whites can't box. Why
don't you go tell Kelly Pavlik that in mixed company.

 

[Guest]

Forced segregation? Other teams had blacks at that time. The
Redskins didn't want any, and were forced to take them.

"Didn't want any" was and is forced segregation.

I wonder what you're thoughts are (though I actually don't care
what you think) on Travis Jervey, Nick Hartigan, Jessie Lumsden etc who
were overlooked due to our modern policy of forced segregation.

That it's not forced segregation.



For those wondering about Black beauty pageants and what not, they
sprung up because as a RESPONSE to segregation, not to segregate at the
outset. There is a big difference.

Chuck has a 50/50 chance just like always. Bisping can
grapple, and take good shots, trust me, he can beat Rampage.

You're posts on the tough street fighting blacks who end up
in jail is almost laughable. Now we cannot claim our white champions
are true champions because they never fought the punks in prison?
Please!

Pretty much. You take out 30% (or more) of the toughest fighters
of a certain population and you will have a degridation of it's
fighting talent.

 

[Guest]

Rua is also conveniently non-white when it suits your purpose too. I guess

next you'll be telling us Italians aren't white.

Nope. Italians are white. Except, of course, for Italian citizens of, say, African heritage.

You're the one that brought up the stereotype that whites can't box. Why

don't you go tell Kelly Pavlik that in mixed company.

Why would I say that? Other than a joke of course, which is
different from the seriousness of this board. However, if I DID
say it to him, he'd probably agree that many white fighters simply
can't fight like he doesn in the following article.



http://www.fightwriter.com/?q=node/910



"There are so many limited white fighters that come up that never made
it," he said, "and everybody thinks that I'm not gonna make it, the
networks don't want to deal with a white fighter because they think
it's a waste of time."