The Confederate Flag

[jaxvid]

There are two issues here that you guys are confusing.

1) what was the CSA really like

2) what do people currently see the CSA flag as representing.

As far as what the CSA was actually like, the statement that they "had a Constitution" is ridiculous. We have a Constitution for all the good it does, the USSR had all of the "rights" and more that we are supposed to enjoy. So what the South wanted to be and what it became are two different things.

The actual truth is that the CSA was a brutal oligarchy that would do anything to win a war for it's survival, in so doing it was not free at all. Any idea to the contrary is wishful thinking and revisionist history. The facts are there and any passing Civil War buff should know this.

Now as to what the CSA is remembered for, and what some people see the flag as standing for, I agree, they see it as a symbol of rebellion against a government bent on conquering or controlling another. All good. Other people merely see it as a symbol of slavery, hence the controversy.

I see this confusion a lot when people speak of the CSA, it is romanticized for the good, or bad, it represented, but it is by no means an ideal of either.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

jaxvid, sadly you are like a man I was arguing with about Caste Football last night on another site. While being open-minded about some things,you close your mind to other things, depending on what you want to believe. It is truly baffling, especially for a moderator. I agree that the CSA wasn't the ideal government. I never said it was. The CSA fought against staying in aunion that was willing to do whatever it took to impose its will on them, Constitution and everything else be damned. Northern traders and lenders were the biggest oligarchs in the country, and the new Lincoln administration lied repeatedly, saying they would notinvadetheir own country. You mentionedbut one of the many abusesLincoln brought on during the war years yourself. Many of these same northern forces ushered in the New World Order after the war and are the cause of most of the problems we on this site are fighting against.Thelossfor everyone in the country was the loss of free, conservative,and responsible government in America. We've been on a downhill slideever since. The injustices perpetrated on the people of the south after the war during 12 years of Radical Reconstruction more than compensatedfor (and justified) the lack of freedoms people living in the CSA endured during The War. It confirmed their fears about what they were fighting against, and undoubtedly made a lot of southerners wish they hadn't stopped when they did. Despite the end of Reconstruction, the South is still an occupied territory, thanks to the "Civil Rights" laws of the 1960s. We can't even redistrict our schools without the government telling us its ok.


True historians take a historical perspective, meaning they examine events of the past from the perspective of someone who was living during them. By using this perspective, it is easy to see that the CSA knew what it was fighting against and what would come offreedomon this continentif they failed to gain their independence.Many southern leaders wrote prophetic statements about this before and during the war. They were right! It has happened! They were totally justified in doing what they did.

 

[jaxvid]

Colonel Reb, sadly you are like many people who post here who only hear what they want. I have never said the Union gov't was better then the CSA gov't, I have never said that the victory of the Union wasn't disasterous for freedom. I have never said good things about Lincoln. All I have said is that the CSA gov't was lousy, even if their cause was just.

Anyway we are not getting anywhere on this so these are my last words on the subject.

Re: being a moderator. I do not see that position as requiring "open mindedness". I have opinions and viewpoints that are exclusive from any moderating that I am supposed to do. If you have complaints about me as a moderator address them to the owner of the site. He can be reached by PM at "Don Wassall".

 

[Piggy]

...The actual truth is that the CSA was a brutal oligarchy that would do anything to win a war for it's survival, in so doing it was not free at all. Any idea to the contrary is wishful thinking and revisionist history. The facts are there and any passing Civil War buff should know this.

Would you please provide some of those "facts?"

 

[voice]

IMO, Abraham Lincoln is a Martin Luther King like figure for the MSM and is a false god held up by the neocons who use "Honest Abe" to trample the constitution which keeps our people slaves of the state.

The very powers that are being enacted now via the "Patriot Act", which taken to there logical conclusion, will be to brand anyone who threatens the health of the USA/Union as a terroist(Racially conscious whites perhaps?)

I don't think you will be so flippant about the suspension of Habeus Corpus when the rulers(Kings and Queens) in DC lock your ass ass up, torture you and then not have to bring you to trial whilst you waste away in secret prisons as a terrorist and enemy of the state!

You don't think this could happen? This is exactly what Honest Abe like actions in the Patriot Act allow the state to do!!

The Civil War is more relevant today than it ever was and for the current powers that have destroyed our great nation stand behind false gods(and their grotesque statues in DC) like MLK and Honest Abe, in the end it will be them or us left standing-not both.

Note. Check out Thomas Di Lorenzo on the Lincoln Cult as he is regular contributor at Lewrockwell.com and Lincoln historian.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo-arch.htmlEdited by: voice

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Morediscriminationin the "enlightened" north. We can't have any deviation from the PC norm now can we?


http://www.davidduke.com/general/3938_3938.html


Three Boys not permitted to graduate for displaying the Confederate flag in school parking lot


CNN has a new video report that illustrates the loss of European American civil rights.. Watch the CNN report about three boys who will now not be permitted to graduate with their classmates for simply sporting a Confederate flag on their car in the school parking lot. The school administrator calls the Confederate flag a hate symbol. If it is a hate symbol then so is the American flag, for the Confederate flag represented the democratic will of the South in declaring their independence from the North.The Southdid so exactly in the same fashion the colonies did against England. It is a symbol based on people having the right to determine freely their own government! The Confederate flag then is a symbol of freedom and self-determination! If it is a symbol of hate because a minority of Southerners owned slaves, then the American flag is also a symbol of hate because there were slaves in Northern states at the time of the War for Southern Independence. The American flag flew over the institution of slavery much longer than did the Confederate flag. It was never a symbol of slavery, it was symbol of Southern Independence.


The fact is that the school wouldn't dare not let Black students graduate who had simply a Black Panther symbol on their car, or keep out Mexicans who sported a La Raza Unida (The United Race) banner.


Notice also in the video how the ACLU representative (a heavily Jewish organization that is supposed to defend freedom of thought and expression) actually defends the school's actions and says that if the school deems a symbol is disruptive they can do whateverthey want. By that logic, there is no freedom of expression in American schools. Anything somebody disagrees with or any dissenting opinion can be deemed disruptive. The ACLU has proven once more they are not about real freedom of speechbut about freedom for their specific left-wing ideology and suppression of everyone else's freedoms. It is similar to the ACLU's support for the widespread racial discrimination against White peoplecalled "affirmative action." While they say they are against racial discrimination they support programs that discriminate against milions of White people.


We here at DavidDuke.com are not hypocrites like the ACLU. We believe that the best qualified, regardless of race should get the job, promotion, scholarship, or university admission that they earn by their merits. We also believe in freedom of speech and in tolerance of different ideas and opinions! Once more it is shown that our enemies are truly the ones who are, hateful, vindictive, racist and intolerant! Once more it is shown clearly that our people must have advocates who defend our heritage and our freedom! -David Duke

Dr. Duke Discusses This Outrage On Stormfront Radio

 

[Bart]

Morediscriminationin the "enlightened" north. We can't have any deviation from the PC norm now can we?

Very interesting commentary. David's site contains a wealth of information.

 

[GiovaniMarcon]

I find it ironic that there's such controversy over displaying the likeness of the Confederate flag in any way, shape, or form, and yet you have all these poseurish little uneducated turds wearing these trendy Che Guevara tshirts as if they have any idea who he even is or what he stood for.

 

[whiteCB]

I can't believe this thread wasn't reopened a few days ago when that massively huge Confederate flag was flown over Tampa at the I-4/I-75 exchange.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

I have no real reason to postanything unless someone is trying to keep someone else from flying it. I'm glad its now flying in Tampa, as well as other highly visible places in Florida.

 

[whiteCB]

I have no real reason to post anything unless someone is trying to keep someone else from flying it. I'm glad its now flying in Tampa, as well as other highly visible places in Florida.

I don't think the Tampa area is the best place in the state, or best state in the south, to fly the flag. There's way too many "Yankee" transplants down there who just don't get what the flag really means to true southerners. The transplants down there just assume the flag is up for all the wrong reasons. I think cities in Florida like Jacksonville, Tallahassee, and Gainsville would be better as there are more "true" southerners in those locales. Although in Tallahassee and Gainesville it would not be too popular due to the universities there.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Who cares about popularity?

 

[Bronk]

I find it ironic that there's such controversy over displaying the likeness of the Confederate flag in any way, shape, or form, and yet you have all these poseurish little uneducated turds wearing these trendy Che Guevara tshirts as if they have any idea who he even is or what he stood for.

Excellent point.

I can't argue this point any better than Colonel Reb has throughout this thread. Overall, the Southern Cause was no different than that of the original American colonialists who sought freedom from the British Crown. In explaining this idea to leftists I resort to using their language and describe the CSA and the "Civil War" as an attempt at self-determination and a war of national liberation.

Here is a photo of the 1967 University of Texas at Arlington Rebels (later changed to "Mavericks"). Note the battle flag on the sleeves:

 

[whiteCB]

Who were the Arlington Rebels? An old college?(cause they're playing Texas)

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Awesome picture Bronk! Any other picsyou have with players wearing battle flags on their unis I'd be really interested in.

 

[Bronk]

Who were the Arlington Rebels? An old college?(cause they're playing Texas)

That's the University of Texas at Arlington, whitecb, which discontinued its football program in the 1980s. They were reconsidering starting it up again, but with the Dallas Cowboys moving to Arlington, might be tough. Too bad, they have a pretty nice on-campus stadium.

Reb, I'll look around to see if I have more pics.Edited by: Bronk

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Cool deal Bronk!

 

[Bronk]

This is not a flag patch but my kids bought me this rugby ball for Christmas a couple of years ago:

 

[Colonel_Reb]

An anti-Tea Party blogger wants fellow Marxists to burn the Confederate battle flag at 9/12 events.

Thanks to James Edwards for finding this piece.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

To hell with that mess! They need to burn his candy@$$![img]smileys/smiley2.gif[/img]

 

[Tom Iron]

I'm a bit of a historian and I'm reading an interesting book online. The title is "A rebel's Recollections" You can read it by goggling, "A Rebels Recollections" - Electronic Edition

Very interesting read from the viewpoint of an average Confederate soldier. He goes into every facet of life in the south during the Civil War. Another interesting point is his take on why Virginia Seceeded from the Union.

Tom Iron...

 

[Freethinker]

I just finished watching the movie Gods and Generals which is the prequel to Gettysberg. It follows "Stonewall" Jackson and the decision of Virginia to secede. It almost entirely takes on the Confederate perspective and portrays them as freedom fighters defending their home and independence. A 2nd Revolution as they even call it. For a Hollywood release this is as un-PC as it gets. The movie is nearly 4 hours long but would be a good view to show friends and family who might need a "re-education" about the Civil War and have a book phobia.Edited by: Freethinker

 

[Tom Iron]

Freethinker,

Yes, that was a great movie. But because it expained the South's view the way you describe, the third movie of the trilogy won't be made.

Tom Iron...

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Freethinker,



Yes, that was a great movie. But because it expained the South's view the way you describe, the third movie of the trilogy won't be made.



Tom Iron...

I don't see it that way, Tom. Gods and Generals, while a great film (imho), was a financial flop just like Gettysburg before it. Way too much money was spent on the project, which made it impossible to turn a profit on or even come close. I think finding someone who is willing to finance (The Last Full Measure) will be what keeps it from being made. I don't think the Confederate bias of Gods and Generals has as much to do with the 3rd film not being made as the difficulty in obtaining the money to make it. The Federal bias of Gettysburg didn't help it come close to turning a profit either. TLFM would most likely be just like Gettysburg as it would show the ending of The War and the Federal victories that went with it. I'd love to see it, but I doubt anyone will be willing to pony up millions knowing they won't get hardly any of it back.

 

[Michael]

An article entitled "Arkansas Town Bans Confederate Flag Display"

The mayor of a tiny Arkansas town raised a Confederate flag over city hall in honor of Gen. Robert E. Lee's birthday. The flag flew for a few days and was taken down. The all-white town council then voted to allow only the US flag and the state flag on the pole. Only one councilman voted against the measure.

Why would the leaders of the small, rural town of Marshal City take such a vote? One man attending the council vote on the flag summed it up: Fear of the blacks. This same council would never vote to ignore the MLK holiday or anything associated with the civil rights movement. Political correctness now has a stranglehold everywhere, including small, rural Southern towns with few blacks.

http://cofcc.org/2011/01/arkansas-town-bans-confederate-flag-display/