Pavlik - Hopkins on 10/18/08 per Bob Arum

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Wow, just woke up after a two hour nap. Thinking about it more rationally now I think a few things have to be considered. I think Kelly wanted the fight because of the 4 million dollar payday. He risked his legacy in my opinion for more cash. Obviously he has to do what is best for his family, however in the long run I believe he will lose more money from this poor showing than anything. I for one do not look forward to watching him fight again. I have bought two pay per views of him. The rematch with Taylor which I thought he didn't put on a great show. Now this, a piss poor performance if I ever seen one. I hate to sound like a pessimist, however I truly feel that Kelly is done as far as being mentioned in the top pound for pound list. (Not that I put to much faith in that list anyway)I also feel that kelly is damaged goods in the world of boxing. He will still remain middleweight champ. He will still make many millions. He will, in all probability KO Rubio in his next middleweight title defense. However, I stand by what I said earlier. Getting completely dominated, and so thoroughly beaten by a 43 year old will NEVER go away. It is not the end of the world. Like I said, Kelly is still the Middleweight Champ and may very well remain one for the foreseeable future. But as far as him ever making any all time great lists. NO! That is over with. He had a choice, take the money and risk the legacy, he made his choice. Now it will reflect on his standing forever after he hangs up his gloves for good.
 

moose

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I stopped being a fan of pavlik since he campaigned for clinton earlier this year, and then had dinner with slick willie. Every great fighter has someone who has his number, maybe hopkins is the one.
 

whiteathlete33

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I'm very disappointed.I really thought Pavlik would do better than even Calzaghe in this fight. As I stated before he never should have took this fight.
 
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I'm just waking up this morning and already the media is calling out Kelly. If you do a search on google.com, check news and go to most recent, it will have some of the articles there. Even the BBC was being very harsh. I think we have yet to realize what damage this could possibly cause. Hopkins blatant placement of Obama/Biden was a slap in the face. And to all of Kelly's fans in NE Ohio who came out to support him. They had to see this, with Obama stickers all over the place and I'm sure get taunted outside also. I feel bad for them. Bernard is a truth serum (as much as it pains me to say it). He will go over everything in your game plan with the fine tooth comb. And will give a blueprint on how to beat that opponent. Taylor (even though he didn't win), Tarver, Wright, Trinidad. He has given a blueprint on how to beat all 4 of these guys. Other than Wright, who has been inactive, a boxer has come in and used Bernard's fight plan almost to a T and destroyed them. Kelly should use a tune up fight to fix what Bernard did to him with movement, distance, and overhand right counters. Kelly has to fix those up because Arthur Abraham now has a blueprint. Now I also believe the weight played a part but he NEVER should have taken it. From what I understand I think the fight was a 50/50 split with 3 million for each fighter plus PPV. Arum took advantage of Kelly. They both wanted to fight but not each other. Everyone else was fighting at the time. Pavlik should have fought a mandatory and then fight Arthur Abraham. Arum should be held accountable on that part along with Kelly for not saying no. This part hurts me more than anything but Loew may need to step aside for the betterment of Kelly. I know Kelly is a loyal guy but Loew has taken him as far as he can. Kelly should get a Freddy Roach or Emmanuel Steward to help him with movement fighters. I don't think that Kelly heart was taken like he took Jermaine Taylor's heart but I am hoping that this doesn't permantely scar him as a fighter. Bernard I believe wants the middleweight titles to stay in America more than anything from hearing him talk so I think he could get some pointers from him also (UGH! I hate saying that too
smiley11.gif
). Sorry for my ranting guys. Mizzou football lost and Pavlik lost
smiley19.gif
. Just a tough day for me and I'm sure for the good folks in NE Ohio. Here's hoping for a strong Kelly Pavlik return.
 

Maple Leaf

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Some of you guys are being too hard on Pavlik: you're saying because he didn't win you no longer like him or consider him worth much. I think you are speaking too early. Every fighter, if he fights other good fighters, will eventually lose a fight. It really is a rare thing to go undefeated for an entire career unless that career has been carefully scripted and opponents selected at the right time. Evidently this was not the right time for Pavlik to be fighting a shucker 'n mover. So what, there are plenty of fighters out there just waiting to taste Pavlik's power and lay down for the camera. He'll be back.
 

WHITE NOISE

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Well someone has got to say it, this fight looks like it was FIXED. Pavlik didn't even throw body shots. I mean if you can't hit a man in the head because of his movement, then at least tenderize his body and slow him down. That's basic/fundamental boxing. Kelly followed B-Hype around the ring without letting the left jab go. He had unlimited opportunity to go downstairs and did not. I could count the number of times he did so with one hand. Kelly performed like a glorified sparring partner in this fight. Lets look at this from his promoter's perspective: Kelly keeps his titles and continues defending them multiple times, B-Hype gets another money fight, both get paid millions,the promoters get an agreed upon dividend (under the table so to speak) and we get suckered. It's interesting that politics were present in B-Hype's corner, cause this fight, Kelly's lack of effort and B-Hype's confidence all smell like a rigged election. I'm still a Pavlik fan, he has made my day on more than one occasion by destroying icons of the MSM (Miranda/Taylor) and I wish him God's speed.
 

Maple Leaf

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By the way gentlemen, this business I am hearing from some of you that Kelly should never have taken this fight is easy to say now because he lost but before the fight this battle looked like a good choice. We can't say now it was a bad decision just because he did not win. In my opinion he should have won and could have won had he used the correct tactics to carry out his strategy of fighting an outside fight. I never thought before the fight that Pavlik would lose in the centre of the ring -but he did- and he did because he simply failed to correctly use his weapons; he did not lose because he did not possess those weapons.
 

Poacher

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No doubt Hopkins is a great fighter but his ring entrance last night was one of the silliest damn fruit things I've ever seen.

This was disappointing but we have been on a nice little streak lately with Vitali and the Kimbo KO not to mention the Shields/ Daley fight. As far as I'm concerned Kelly is fine. He will return to 160 and KO everything in sight.
 
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Don Wassall said:
Did anyone hear what Hopkins said to Pavlik after it was over?  I heard the word "black" and something about Pavlik dominating the middleweight division like Hopkins defended himself in his weight class.  That sounds like good advice.

Here is what Hopkins said per Kelly's hometown paper, The Youngstown Vindicator.



"Keep your head up, keep fighting. You've got to learn one thing. You've got to learn that slickness that black fighters have and you can really be a great champion."


I'll put the link and the entire article so that the paper and the writer gets proper credit.




http://www.vindy.com/news/2008/oct/19/veteran-fighter-gets-1 2-round-decision/




Veteran fighter gets 12-round decision


Published:Sunday, October 19, 2008

By JOE SCALZO

Vindicator sports staff

ATLANTIC CITY, N.J.  With his lip quivering but his face otherwise expressionless, Bernard Hopkins leaned up against the ropes following Saturday's bout, staring at the press contingent as he prepared to celebrate one of the biggest victories  and best performances  of his Hall of Fame career.

Five feet away, Kelly Pavlik's camp consoled the 26-year-old middleweight champion, whose rapid rise to the boxing world hit its first snag.

The official announcement was a technicality. On this night, the 43-year-old "Executioner" was too sharp, too savvy and too good at 170 pounds, earning a lopsided 12-round unanimous decision in front of 11,332 fans at Boardwalk Hall. The scores were 109-98, 108-99 and 107-100, with judge Alan Rubenstein giving Hopkins every round.

Pavlik may be the best fighter in the world at 160 pounds, but he was no match at 170.

"I just couldn't get off tonight," Pavlik said afterward. "I don't know why. It wasn't because of his slickness. I just couldn't throw more than a single jab, couldn't throw a double jab, couldn't do anything I was used to doing.

"We're going to go back to the drawing board. It just wasn't me tonight. I'm going to be more comfortable going back to 160."

After the bout, Hopkins walked over and encouraged Pavlik.

"I was a fan of yours before and I'm a fan of yours now; don't let this fight destroy you," Hopkins said, as Pavlik nodded. "You're a great middleweight champion with a great heart.

"Keep your head up, keep fighting. You've got to learn one thing. You've got to learn that slickness that black fighters have and you can really be a great champion."

Pavlik, wearing navy blue trunks with the logos of the Youngstown police and fire departments, never looked sharp and was never able to time up Hopkins' punches, nor gauge the right distance to land his powerful straight right hands.

By the third round, Pavlik's manager, Cameron Dunkin, knew it wasn't his fighter's night.

"He's dead, he's got nothing," Dunkin said then. "It's the weight. He's a middleweight. That's all."

It's the first professional loss for Pavlik (34-1, 30 KOs), whose last loss came during the Olympic trials as an 18-year-old amateur. For Hopkins (49-5-1, 32 KOs), the victory helps erase the bitter taste of two losses to Jermain Taylor and one to Joe Calzaghe

He told Pavlik he'd be rooting for him in the future.

"Keep your chin up; don't give up," he said. "If I have to go to your house and take you to the gym, I will."

The only thing Pavlik could take away is he wasn't knocked down, absorbing a lot of punches in the later rounds as blood spurted from his nose. Whenever he landed a decent jab or right to the body, Hopkins countered with a strong combination or a good overhand right.

The fight was similar to Pavlik's rematch against Taylor in February in one regard: He didn't have the same speed or snap on his punches with a heavier weight.

The fight statistics were gruesome.

Hopkins landed 172 of 530 punches (32 percent), including a whopping 49 percent of his power punches (148 of 304). Pavlik, who was widely expected to be the stronger and more active fighter, connected on just 23 percent of his punches (108 of 463), including 26 of his power punches (55 of 211).

Saturday's crowd was the biggest to see a Pavlik bout  his previous best was last September's bout against Taylor, which drew under 11,000  and they sold 1,000 tickets on fight day.

The fight began at 11:40. Both fighters started tentatively  Hopkins probably held a small edge in that round  and the Philadelphia native took control in the second. Pavlik didn't win a round on any of the judges' cards until the 10th.

"I knew my style and quickness was underrated and was gonna give him problems," said Hopkins.

The Pavlik camp seemed to know it wasn't their night early. Between the 10th and 11th round, Pavlik's wife, Samantha, rocked back and forth at her ringside seat, clasped her hands and appeared to say a small prayer. His trainer, Jack Loew, was expressionless. His corner seemed stunned. Hopkins, meanwhile, looked fresh and confident throughout.

"I think this was my best performance," Hopkins said.

Before the fight began, Hopkins entered the ring wearing an executioner's mask, pausing to make a throat-slashing gesture to the crowd just before he stepped through the ropes.

He wasn't quite an executioner, but certainly executed.

On Saturday night, he really was the Ghostbuster.

scalzo@vindy.com
 

Maple Leaf

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That statement: "Keep your head up, keep fighting. You've got to learn one thing. You've got to learn that slickness that black fighters have and you can really be a great champion."


More crap from Hopkins only now it was at the end of the fight instead of the beginning. Where was that slickess against Calzaghe? Against Taylor? Of course, the writer makes no mention of all the white champions or the fact that the black fighter is mostly on the losing side of almost every belt from middleweight upward. Same old complicit Marxist media.
 

Thrashen

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This loss really doesnt hurt too badly, as he didnt lose his belts.

I try to think of all the positive things that have happened in boxing the past 4 years. Simply put, there are too many to mention (in our favor).

Hopkins fought the fight of his life, big deal. Pavlik will be back...and Hopkins is nearing the end of his HOF career. Sure, he's a racist jerkoff, but I'll give him credit for coming back after the Calzaghe loss.
 

whiteathlete33

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Yes the positive is he didn't lose any belts. He went up in weight to fight someone. That takes courage. However I said from the beginning, as did JD1986 and several others that Pavlik shouldn't have taken this fight. This shows what a superior boxer Calzaghe is though. Calzaghe used his speed to win the Hopkins fight. Pavlik isn't even close to as quick as Joe but he has devastating punches. From now on I hope Kelly doesn't try to go up or down a weight class from 160. He should stay at the weight he is comfortable in. If he continues to fight in different weight classes it could ruin his career. The most upsetting thing yet is that boxrec now has Hopkins as # 1 at light heavyweight. How can that be when Calzaghe was # 1 prior to the Hopkins Pavlik fight. He beat Hopkins so how can he be #2. A bunch of crap if you ask me.Edited by: whiteathlete33
 

Sean

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Liverlips said:
How awesome does Joe Calaghe look this morning!

Just about this awesome
smiley32.gif


calzaghe-hopkins0266.jpg
 

whiteathlete33

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Yes Calzaghe did a great job against a "so called legend." Hopkins being the racist and prick he is thinks he won the Calzaghe fight. He will never admit he lost. That's just a clown behaving like a clown.
 

Sean

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whiteathlete33 said:
Yes Calzaghe did a great job against a "so called legend." Hopkins being the racist and prick he is thinks he won the Calzaghe fight. He will never admit he lost. That's just a clown behaving like a clown.

What got me was the "so-called" experts saying they thought Hopkins did enough to win that fight. Hopkins did nothing the whole fight! Joe pressured him, took the fight to him. Hopkins only round was the first. Joe really took it to him. Really, while this win for Hopkins last night is obviously bad for Kelly, it really is marvelous for the Calzaghe legacy.
 

whiteathlete33

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Sean said:
whiteathlete33 said:
Yes Calzaghe did a great job against a "so called legend." Hopkins being the racist and prick he is thinks he won the Calzaghe fight. He will never admit he lost. That's just a clown behaving like a clown.

What got me was the "so-called" experts saying they thought Hopkins did enough to win that fight. Hopkins did nothing the whole fight! Joe pressured him, took the fight to him. Hopkins only round was the first. Joe really took it to him. Really, while this win for Hopkins last night is obviously bad for Kelly, it really is marvelous for the Calzaghe legacy.

Yea because these "so called" experts will never give Calzaghe his respect. I really thought Pavlik would dominate Calzaghe if they fought. It would probably be the opposite. This fight may have been fixed. I've watched numerous Pavlik fights and he is aggressive and can always land his punches. He beat Taylor twice who beat Hopkins twice.
 

celticdb15

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At least we're looking at the bright side of things. I am very dissapointed Kelly lost, but i have a feeling his losses will be few and far between. Any clue who his next fight would be agains at 160? As for the Calzaghe v Pavlik fantasy match Calzaghe has to be considered the heavy favorite no doubt about it.
 

Sean

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celticdb15 said:
At least we're looking at the bright side of things. I am very dissapointed Kelly lost, but i have a feeling his losses will be few and far between. Any clue who his next fight would be agains at 160? As for the Calzaghe v Pavlik fantasy match Calzaghe has to be considered the heavy favorite no doubt about it.

Pavlik's next fight will most likely be against Marco Antonio Rubio, who earned a shot at Kelly's title last night with a split decision victory. I think this would be a really good fight for Pavlik to get back on track with. Rubio's a pretty good punchers himself, but he won't be able to take Pavlik's punches.
 

celticdb15

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Great news looks like Kelly will be staying at 160 for now on!
 

Keith Lincoln

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Many great fighters lose when they go up in weight class. Alexis Arguello was untouchable until he went up to the next weight class and got knocked out twice by Aaron Pryor. Kelly's manager wanted to make money for Kelly and himself. I didn't see the fight but it sounds like the extra weight really slowed him. If Kelly used the Holyfield method (steroids) it probably would have been different.
Edited by: Keith Lincoln
 
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Pavlik should have stayed at 160 all along. For Christ's sake, doesn't Loew, or Arum, or anyone else that is in charge of Kelly's career know Kelly's body. I said in my first post on this subject way back when it was announced that this is bad fo Kelly. I just read on the posted link http://www.vindy.com/news/2008/oct/20/not-the-same-kelly/


that Bernard was 185 hours before the fight. 185 for Christ's sake. Kelly weighed 172 ringside before the fight. Kelly is really looking like one of the most mismanaged fighters in boxing right now. Let's see, win title from Jermaine (160 Lbs) fight Jermain at catchweight (166) back down to 160 for the Locket fight, up to 170 for a fight with a guy who has been at lightheavy now for 3 years. Now back down to 160 for the Rubio fight. Man o man, mark my words, they are gonna destroy this kid's career. His legacy will forever be damage for there is no doubt of that. Let's hope he could somehow salvage his career. I am sure the 3 mill Kelly made is great. However one must wonder how much less he will make when he fights Abraham with a loss on his record. I'm at the point where I am ready to say the hell with Pavlik. I will still root for him because he is one of my people. However when I talk him up with Africans I really have no defense when they mention the Hopkins fight. This one guy told me (online) that if Bernard beat Kelly like this at 43, imagine what he would do to Kelly if he was still a middleweight at 33, 0r 28. I had no comeback for that. Legacy destroyed. Never will his name be mentioned in the same sentence as a Hagler, or even a hearns again.
 

JD074

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aussieaussie31 said:
that Bernard was 185 hours before the fight. 185 for Christ's sake. Kelly weighed 172 ringside before the fight.

That doesn't surprise me at all. Before the fight, Loew said in an interview that Pavlik walks around at 172-173. So they choose a fight at 170?! Idiotic. (An injured elbow and bronchitis doesn't help either.) Pavlik and Loew talked a good game about how he can eat more, he'll be stronger, more snap to his punches, etc. Obviously it didn't work out that way. Pavlik has a very slender frame. Even before the Taylor rematch, I didn't really believe what they were saying. Fortunately, in a post-fight interview, Loew was very adamant about going back down to 160. He must have mentioned it at least half a dozen times.

I read that HBO nixed a lot of possible fights, and narrowed it down to a short list, Hopkins, Williams, and Wright in particular. He would've been better off not fighting on HBO, taking less money in a stay-busy fight while waiting for Abraham.

I don't know how good Loew is as a trainer, but Pavlik should at least consider talking to a few guys, receive some constructive criticism, see what direction they would take him in, and if they can offer him anything that Loew can't. Our white fighters may be too loyal for their own good. Hatton and Graham, Calzaghe and his jazz musician father, Pavlik and Loew... obviously they've all had great careers, but maybe they would be even better if they had switched things up a little sooner. None of these guys have trained other great fighters.
 

Charles Martel

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JD074 said:
aussieaussie31 said:
that Bernard was 185 hours before the fight. 185 for Christ's sake. Kelly weighed 172 ringside before the fight.

That doesn't surprise me at all. Before the fight, Loew said in an interview that Pavlik walks around at 172-173. So they choose a fight at 170?! Idiotic. (An injured elbow and bronchitis doesn't help either.) Pavlik and Loew talked a good game about how he can eat more, he'll be stronger, more snap to his punches, etc. Obviously it didn't work out that way. Pavlik has a very slender frame. Even before the Taylor rematch, I didn't really believe what they were saying. Fortunately, in a post-fight interview, Loew was very adamant about going back down to 160. He must have mentioned it at least half a dozen times.

I read that HBO nixed a lot of possible fights, and narrowed it down to a short list, Hopkins, Williams, and Wright in particular. He would've been better off not fighting on HBO, taking less money in a stay-busy fight while waiting for Abraham.

I don't know how good Loew is as a trainer, but Pavlik should at least consider talking to a few guys, receive some constructive criticism, see what direction they would take him in, and if they can offer him anything that Loew can't. Our white fighters may be too loyal for their own good. Hatton and Graham, Calzaghe and his jazz musician father, Pavlik and Loew... obviously they've all had great careers, but maybe they would be even better if they had switched things up a little sooner. None of these guys have trained other great fighters.

Good post, JD. I agree with everything you said here.
 
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