Pavlik - Hopkins on 10/18/08 per Bob Arum

[Maple Leaf]

I will say this as a caution to Pavlik: those long punches he throws had better come back to his guard in future fights because he does have a tendency to leave them out there too long and that gives time for a slip and step move in and counter shots. I do not know if it was Pavlik's trainer Loew or just Pavlik but he did not make any adjustments in the fight to get back to controlling distance. Throughout the fight he was either too far or too close. I would say the trainer has to do better than that. I would have told him after round 3: "Kelly, I need bursts of 5-10 jabs in a row to break his rythm. Just straight jabs aimed at his neck."

 

[Maple Leaf]

I think it was a huge mistake for Pavlik to move up that much. Bad decision by management. Anyway, hindsight is 20/20. I think Pavlik lost alot of luster in many people's eyes. Not so much in my eyes because I follow the sport pretty closely. However the aura of invincibility is wiped clean. The way Pavlik was beaten was so thorough, so dominating, so convincingly that I believe this fight has the potential to ruin Pavlik's career for good. I really hope that does not happen because I like Pavlik alot.

Well, Aussie, bad decision or not, he learned that it is hard to hit a moving target if you let that target move. The taller, bigger man with longer reach has to stop the shorter mover by jabbing him still. Some rounds Pavlik threw as little as 5-8 jabs.

 

[mrjohnnynofear]

This is a VERY tough pill to swallow. When I first put up this message thread, I was thinking that this was not good. The greed of the money may have got Kelly. Both sides admitted they could not find opponents so they agreed to fight each other. Once Hopkins demands were starting to get met more than Kelly (weight, pay, ect.) I was still worried but thought that Kelly would still win. This is like a bad dream. Bernard coming out to rap music, Obama/Biden stickers everywhere (from what I understand Hopkins is now the next door neighbor to Biden), and Kelly didn't look good. Kelly will still be a great champion but the media coverage will damage the rep to Kelly. As much as I hate to, I have to give Hopkins credit for fighting as good of a gameplan I have seen in a while even though I still hate his guts. Bernard won't be boxing for too much longer and will retire and Kelly will still be around for the next decade. Kelly needs to stick with his jab no matter what because without that, Hopkins will have shown everyone else the blueprint to defeat him. Keep your head up Kelly and come back strong as ever.

 

[Maple Leaf]

One loss will not make a loser out of him. Unless a fighter fights really weak opponents throughout his career, eventually he will lose and sometimes it happens more than once. What the hell? Hopkins was so beatable though it makes me pissed off. All Taylor did was throw 3-5 jabs at a time and he out pointed Hopkins in both of their fights. Pavlik is going to kick his own ass for simply not doing what Taylor did.

 

[Sean]

One loss will not make a loser out of him. Unless a fighter fights really weak opponents throughout his career, eventually he will lose and sometimes it happens more than once. What the hell? Hopkins was so beatable though it makes me pissed off. All Taylor did was throw 3-5 jabs at a time and he out pointed Hopkins in both of their fights. Pavlik is going to kick his own ass for simply not doing what Taylor did.

Agreed, when Kelly rewatches this fight he will see he didn't have to do much to beat Hopkins...but he needed to do a lot more than he did.

 

[white is right]

160 could be a magical weight for Pavlik. Similar to runner putting on ten pounds and looking slower and flat in sprinting. I was shocked too and by about the 8th round I knew the fight was over as he wasn't putting the ground work for a ko win in place(banging Hopkins to the body and getting him tired). I'm glad I didn't bet this fight...

 

[Westside]

Mr Johnnynofear, your right. Kelly got over confident with himself. This is just a incident what we have coming with Hopkins proclaiming he is a BO supporter. Kelly should have fought Hopkins at 160 lbs. Hopkins fought a great fight. I was wondering when Kelly would be displinle to fight tall and long and use his jab until the 6th round.

Caste members, if you dont vote for McCain you will hear the subjacation of whites and in sports and politics non spot.!

 

[Maple Leaf]

Mr Johnnynofear, your right. Kelly got over confident with himself. This is just a incident what we have coming with Hopkins proclaiming he is a BO supporter. Kelly should have fought Hopkins at 160 lbs. Hopkins fought a great fight. I was wondering when Kelly would be displinle to fight tall and long and use his jab until the 6th round.

Caste members, if you dont vote for McCain you will hear the subjacation of whites and in sports and politics non spot.!

I agree. If you want to keep BO out of the Whitehouse then you must vote for McCain. I have relatives in Boston and they are voting Rep. even though their city stinks with Democrats crawling all over the place.

 

[Blue Devils]

Pavlik has to go back to the drawing board now and work on his footwork and cutting the ring off. That's what killed him against Hopkins. I had a bad feeling that his plodding footwork would come back to bite him.

Next for Pavlik I think he needs to fight Winky Wright at 160 for his titles. I think beating Wright who's a big name black american fighter would go along way to restore his reputation. Pav will be back I have no doubts about it.

 

[Westside]

No. Pavlik has no business fighting Wright. He should wait for the outcome of the Abraham v Marquez fight. The best thing for Pavlik is that he didn't lose his belts. Man, its the story of a man believing the hype about him. If Kelly would have fought at 160 lbs it would have meant more glory for or him and Hopkins.

Now, Kelly will have to live with losing to 43 yrs old fighter, albeit HOFer. Bad move. He just got over confident and greedy($). Although, not all is lost, he still has his belts.

 

[Charles Martel]

Yea this is a stupid fight. I mean Hopkins is almost 20 years older. A loss would be devastating for Kelly.

You were absolutely right. It was a risk without reward fight, and he lost.

Pavlik didn't seem himself tonight, he seemed to be flat and lacking energy. He was getting punches off much faster against Taylor and Miranda.

 

[Charles Martel]

Now, Kelly will have to live with losing to 43 yrs old fighter, albeit HOFer. Bad move. He just got over confident and greedy($). Although, not all is lost, he still has his belts.

Pavlik took the fight because of Bob Arum's greed, not his own.

He could have fought any of a number of other fighters, such as Williams and Green, if Arum had been more reasonable and less greedy in negotiations with their managers.

 

[Amren.com]

Yea this is a stupid fight. I mean Hopkins is almost 20 years older. A loss would be devastating for Kelly.

You were absolutely right. It was a risk without reward fight, and he lost.

Pavlik didn't seem himself tonight, he seemed to be flat and lacking energy. He was getting punches off much faster against Taylor and Miranda.

He didn't really fight that well even at 166lbs. I've read that he is unable to double his jab at the higher weight. It seemed to me that Hopkins was just too fast for him.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Yea this is a stupid fight. I mean Hopkins is almost 20 years older. A loss would be devastating for Kelly.

You were absolutely right. It was a risk without reward fight, and he lost.

Pavlik didn't seem himself tonight, he seemed to be flat and lacking energy. He was getting punches off much faster against Taylor and Miranda.

He didn't really fight that well even at 166lbs. I've read that he is unable to double his jab at the higher weight. It seemed to me that Hopkins was just too fast for him.

I don't believe the extra ten pounds kept him from being able to fire off multiple jabs. Hopkins is much older and heavier and smaller and he was able to look alive. No, Pavlik seemed to have more of a mental letdown than a physical one.

 

[aussieaussie31]

In terms of legacy. Pavlik's legacy WILL be damaged regardless of how many knockouts he gets in future middleweight fights. You do not lose (Get completely owned) by a guy 43 when you are 26 and get mentioned in any lists for greatest middleweight of all time.
I wonder if it may be time to get a new manager as well. It seems like Pavlik's corner is clueless when it comes to making adjustments.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Pavlik has to go back to the drawing board now and work on his footwork and cutting the ring off. That's what killed him against Hopkins. I had a bad feeling that his plodding footwork would come back to bite him.

Sean: with Pavlik's wide steps it did not seem to me his footwork let him down. His lack of control of distance and low punch output sunk him. Calzaghe went after Hopkins and let his hands go and just out punched him. Pavlik was supposed to do the same only from a distance. Pavlik's trainer also let him down. I heard Loew saying: "...I need a double jab and then a quick right..." or he would say late in the fight: "...you have really got to get busy...". To me that is not good enough. I would have told him he needs 5-10 machine gun like punches down the middle to freeze his movement.

 

[Maple Leaf]

In terms of legacy. Pavlik's legacy WILL be damaged regardless of how many knockouts he gets in future middleweight fights. You do not lose (Get completely owned) by a guy 43 when you are 26 and get mentioned in any lists for greatest middleweight of all time.
I wonder if it may be time to get a new manager as well. It seems like Pavlik's corner is clueless when it comes to making adjustments.

Aussie, I disagree with regard to his legacy. Pavlik could go on and kill another ten or fifteen in a row and we will forget about Hopkins. Wladimir Klitschko lost to Ross Purity once and now that is long forgotten.
No, the future will be what he makes of it. But this fight was there for him to win.

 

[GiovaniMarcon]

... Still, it could be worse. Pavlik might have been knocked out, quit between rounds, or said something off the wall and weird like "I guess we whites can't box" or "don't tase me, dude..." or that his favorite movie is The Labyrinth.

 

[Westside]

JD 1996, it was not Arum's fault that Kelly lost, it was Kelly's. Like I said before, he got over confident and lost to a HOFer he thought he was going to beat.

This a fight he should have never taken , at 170 lbs. Mapleleaf is right, he will have to hope this a is Ross Purity moment. However, I think the sports MSM media will not let it.

He got schooled by a better fighter. Right now, Saturday Night Live is ripped whites left and right. I didn't see Sara Palin in the beginning cuase I was in drunken buze. But now I am awake. Kelly had no business losing this fight or taking it at 170 lbs. Shame on him and God help us if BO wins.

 

[Charles Martel]

JD 1986, it was not Arum's fault that Kelly lost, it was Kelly's.

It was Bob Arum who decided he would fight Hopkins at 170. Kelly lets his promoter Arum make those decisions. As I said in the first page of this thread, it was a bad decision: big risk, no reward except money.

 

[Westside]

GiovanniMarcon, ur also right, that is the only thing that could be worse. Getting KO'd or quitting on stool, like Peter did. This still hurts, but I hope Kelly learns from his overconfidence or mistakes.

Like George Forman used to say," win tonights win and look specatular the next fight." Sadly, Kelly this will not apply to Kelly's next fight. He will have to look specatular the next couple of fights and hopefully against some blacks. Damn his performance pisses me off!

 

[Westside]

Look JD 1996, I respect your knowledge and expertise on boxing and on this site, but lets not make excuses for Pavlik. Pavlik is the star and marquee fighter and holds the levers. If you think Arum dictates weight and money, then your just delusional. If so, Kelly should have just said no. He could have easily fought someone like Lockett and got 2 million dollars and waited for the winner of the Abraham/Marquez fight.

Come on, Kelly just lost because he was over confident and to a bona fide Hall of Famer, although a old one. The old part is going to be the hard part to get over. If Kelly I would have never taken this fight.

 

[Charles Martel]

Look JD 1996, I respect your knowledge and expertise on boxing and on this site, but lets not make excuses for Pavlik. Pavlik is the star and marquee fighter and holds the levers. If you think Arum dictates weight and money, then your just delusional.

Arum does make those decisions for his fighters, as does Kohl for the Universum fighters. Some big stars like Hopkins, the Klitschkos, and Jones negotiate for themselves, but they are the exception.

But I'm not blaming Arum for the way Pavlik fought. Kelly looked poor tonight, he seemed rather flat. He said after the fight it wasn't the weight or anything Hopkins did, he just had a bad night and couldn't get his punches off quickly. Boxers aren't supermen, some nights they're just not as sharp - that's why they sometimes win rematches with the same opponent.

 

[Blue Devils]

Like George Forman used to say," win tonights win and look specatular the next fight." Sadly, Kelly this will not apply to Kelly's next fight. He will have to look specatular the next couple of fights and hopefully against some blacks. Damn his performance pisses me off!

The mainstream media is not going to let this go away. Just like they did when Michael Moorer lost to Big George but this will be more overblown because it happened to a prime 26 year old white champ. And losing to a 43 year old in a dominant fashion. The part I highlighted in your post is why I brought up Winky Wright. He's a well respected black american fighter. IMO Pavlik beating him would go a long way to restore his reputation he had with the MSM. I wish he would have fought a Gary Lockett type of opponent or one those Mexican dudes who were on the undercard fighting to be his mandatory then go after Abraham. Even if he goes on the beat Abraham now the MSM will still bring up the Hopkins loss and downplay the Abraham win after all he's a Euro and we all know how the US media mistreats European fighters. Look at the disrespect shown toward Calzaghe. In my humble opinion if he fights Wright it'll be damage control to gain some respect back.

 

[Westside]

JD 1996 agreed. Pavlik had a bad night and he still could have said to Arum, NO to the weight. Regarding the money , I'm sure Kelly had the bigger take.

Now its more important that Joe Calzaghe atone for Kelly's poor performance and send Roy Jones into retirement with devastating effect.

I do have to give Hopkins his due. Man, a 43 old dude to give that type of fight against a 26 yr old is something. It now makes me appreciate the win that Calzagde got, by the way, Joe thought Hopkins would win for what ever thats worth.