Manny Pacquiao and Wladimir Klitschko.

[space hillbilly]

With Manny Pacquiao reaching His 59th fight this past weekend I thought it would be interesting to compare this boxing super star to another 59 fight veteran who is also a world champion, Wladimir Klitschko, who (as we all know on this site) has been completley Ignored by the same media, sports writers and boxing historians that have been lavishing over Pacquiao.But just how much greater has the career Manny Pacquiao been compared to Wladimir's? Here's what I could dig up!While Wladimir's amateur career is well documented (six times National champion, four times European champion, two times world champion and Olympic gold medalist.) the amateur career of Pacquiao (as I can find) is a complete mystery.I found nothing about Him on any of the "Wiki" type boxing sits. One site said Manny was 84-4 as an amateur, but who knows?As professionals, both have 59 fights, Pacquiao started two years earlier than Wladimir. (Killing the argument that heavyweights don't fight as much as the lower weight divisions.)Both won their first world title 47 months after turning pro.Both Pacquiao and Klitschko have lost three pro fights.Wladimir has defended a world title 17 times. Pacquiao, 19 times.One argument for Pacquiao is He has moved up in weight. Well, Wladimir fights in an unlimited weight division, so He's been moving up and down from the very start. The best way show this is to take Pacquiao's lightest weight (105lb) and compare that to His heaviest opponent (probably De La Hoya, 160lb at His heaviest). A differnce of 55lb. Then take Wladimir's lightest weight, 221lb and compare it to His heaviest opponent (Paea Wolfgramm, 288lb). A differnce of 67lb. So Wladimir has been fighting bigger opponents than Pacquiao for most of His career.I just thought some may find this interesting....

 

[Frenchnative]

For some reason, it has been unofficially decided that heavyweights weren't in their place in a Pound 4 Pound ranking.
It wasn't an issue when Tyson was ranked N°1 in this very ranking.

I wonder what's the reason for that sudden change of mind...

 

[white is right]

In the past the ideal heavyweight was viewed as fighter about 6'2" to 6'3" weighing between 210 to 220 pounds. Since the late 90's the 6'4"+ heavyweights have been dominating the division and they usually weigh 240 pounds+. With heavyweights size was always viewed as much of a hindrance as it is a plus. I think in the future the ideal will be 2" taller and 20 pounds heavier. Also lately Wlad is starting to get credit for being a top fighter as he is now in the Ring top 10 list. I have never put much stock in the list as old man river Hopkins is viewed as a better top ten fighter than Wlad?:thumbdown:

 

[werewolf]

The Klitschko brothers are the most dominant and amazing phenomenons in the history of the sport. The Jews who own the mass media deliberately ignore them and try to discredit them. If they were black or jewish they'd be national heroes and Max Kellerman and all his landsmen would be drooling over them and Ring magazine would be calling them the best pound for pound fighters in the history of the universe.

 

[space hillbilly]

In the past the ideal heavyweight was viewed as fighter about 6'2" to 6'3" weighing between 210 to 220 pounds. Since the late 90's the 6'4"+ heavyweights have been dominating the division and they usually weigh 240 pounds+. With heavyweights size was always viewed as much of a hindrance as it is a plus. I think in the future the ideal will be 2" taller and 20 pounds heavier. Also lately Wlad is starting to get credit for being a top fighter as he is now in the Ring top 10 list. I have never put much stock in the list as old man river Hopkins is viewed as a better top ten fighter than Wlad?:thumbdown:

Well I dont know if I'd even call what Wladimir gets as credit.

Wladimir Klitschko is the longest reigning heavyweight champion in the history of the IBF, WBO and IBO.


Wladimir broke the 100 year old record held by Tommy Burns for most consecutive knockouts by a heavyweight champion.

Wladimir is 7th in most consecutive title defences and 4th in total number of title defences in the history of the heavyweight division.

While Pacquiao is the first eight division world champion, most of the divisions are separated by just a few pounds. And He has never held multiple organization titles in any single weight division.

 

[whiteathlete33]

This is a good thread. If Manny gets a fight with Gayfeather and beats him then he deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as the K brothers. The drunk white liberals are hoping this fight happens so they can watch their "supa afflete" Gayfeather. I sure hope Manny would win this one but with "supa afflete" you never know.

 

[werewolf]

"While Pacquiao is the first eight division world champion, most of the divisions are separated by just a few pounds."


Yep. All those ridiculous artificial divisions for the little fellers separated by only a couple of pounds, and meanwhile guys who weigh 200 are expected to get in the ring with giants.

 

[Highlander]

Didn't want to start another thread for tonight's Pacquiao/Marquez fight, but Marquez (the master of the counter-punch), knocked Manny out cold in the 6th round to win it.

Apparently, from the scrolling updates on BSPN, Manny was dominating and brutalizing Marquez before that at will, throughout the entire fight, battering him with hard lefts, but with two seconds left in Round 6, Manny still went in for more when Marquez caught him with a brutal right counter-punch that knocked Manny out cold...fell to the mat like a sack of potatoes. I guess Marquez also had another counter-punch knockdown of Manny earlier in the fight, but that was it.

One of the BSPN announcers covering it said it was the best fight he's ever seen. Insane action.

 

[Wes Woodhead]

There is a whole pile of illegal mexicans two houses down from me, and they were going absolutely nuts awhile ago. I guess this is the reason.

 

[The Hock]

There is a whole pile of illegal mexicans two houses down from me, and they were going absolutely nuts awhile ago. I guess this is the reason.

"a whole pile of illegal mexicans" LOL. Reminds me of a joke. Why were there a hundred Mexicans at the wedding? They only had two cars.

 

[Rebajlo]

Splendid stuff!

No "ambiguities" this time...

The 34-year old "pound for pound" midget goes down like the sack of rice (or **** - take Your pick) that he is, knocked out by his 39-year old opponent. But I guess he's still better than the Kiltschkos - "pound for pound" of course...

Here we have the boxing media's favourite Asian showing us just how it's done:

.

Ooohhh, isn't "Manneee" simply the best...

 

[The Hock]

I've been tired of both these guys for a while, but you know what this means. I can see it now. "Rematch for Redemption" or something like that.

Sweet KO though.

 

[BoxingSpecialist2]

I am a life-long supporter of European boxers and the European Boxing Scene. I make it a point to watch all fights from Germany and I also appreciate the Russian, Ukrainian, and British scenes.

I don`t usually follow the American (ie HBO) scene because I find the quality of fights to be lacking and the hype they put on their mostly Negro fighters is completely unwarranted. Some of the Negro hypejobs over the years have included Allan Green, Seth Mitchell, Andre Berto, Danny Jacobs, and Joan Guzman. All of these Negroes, when stepped up against international competition (mainly European) were soundly beaten.

Pacquiao is a bit different because I would say there was a time when he was great and deserved a good portion of the hype he was receiving. In some ways I think he served to counter the false notion of Negro athletic supremacy in American sports.

I`d much rather watch Pacquiao and Marquez both, than any of the Negroes that HBO constantly pushes. So, for that reason I don`t openly root against Pacquiao.

But damn, what a KO that was. A few weeks ago Pacquiao gave Ricky Hatton the advice to stay retired because of the brutality of his KO losses. Well now Pacquiao is in the same boat!

Every dog has his day, and most fighters don`t end their career on high notes. Calzaghe, Marciano are exceptions in that they never experienced losses like this. Guess Manny`s political career caught up with him, and this is the end of his aura of invincibility.

I do think this loss will have a significant negative effect on his future career valuation.

Can`t win them all, and the truth is, most boxers go out on terms like that! Great win for Marquez, definitely a career-best for him.

 

[Highlander]

I am a life-long supporter of European boxers and the European Boxing Scene. I make it a point to watch all fights from Germany and I also appreciate the Russian, Ukrainian, and British scenes.

I don`t usually follow the American (ie HBO) scene because I find the quality of fights to be lacking and the hype they put on their mostly Negro fighters is completely unwarranted. Some of the Negro hypejobs over the years have included Allan Green, Seth Mitchell, Andre Berto, Danny Jacobs, and Joan Guzman. All of these Negroes, when stepped up against international competition (mainly European) were soundly beaten.

Pacquiao is a bit different because I would say there was a time when he was great and deserved a good portion of the hype he was receiving. In some ways I think he served to counter the false notion of Negro athletic supremacy in American sports.

I`d much rather watch Pacquiao and Marquez both, than any of the Negroes that HBO constantly pushes. So, for that reason I don`t openly root against Pacquiao.

But damn, what a KO that was. A few weeks ago Pacquiao gave Ricky Hatton the advice to stay retired because of the brutality of his KO losses. Well now Pacquiao is in the same boat!

Every dog has his day, and most fighters don`t end their career on high notes. Calzaghe, Marciano are exceptions in that they never experienced losses like this. Guess Manny`s political career caught up with him, and this is the end of his aura of invincibility.

I do think this loss will have a significant negative effect on his future career valuation.

Can`t win them all, and the truth is, most boxers go out on terms like that! Great win for Marquez, definitely a career-best for him.

Very thoughtful post. I concur. I despise HBO and their obvious agenda as well. The Pacquiao/Marquez fights have been some of the best I've seen, although I didn't get a chance to see this one. I have a lot of respect for Pacquiao and was hoping he would win this one, but I have a lot of respect for Marquez's fighting ability, especially at almost 40 years old. Marquez should have won the decision on the last fight, but he left no doubt on this one. It sounds like there will be a 5th fight between them. I'm hoping Pacquiao can win that one, then annihilate Bradley to win that division again and then retire.

 

[BoxingSpecialist2]

Very thoughtful post. I concur. I despise HBO and their obvious agenda as well. The Pacquiao/Marquez fights have been some of the best I've seen, although I didn't get a chance to see this one. I have a lot of respect for Pacquiao and was hoping he would win this one, but I have a lot of respect for Marquez's fighting ability, especially at almost 40 years old. Marquez should have won the decision on the last fight, but he left no doubt on this one. It sounds like there will be a 5th fight between them. I'm hoping Pacquiao can win that one, then annihilate Bradley to win that division again and then retire.

Thanks for your kind words and compliments!

I don't consider myself a fan of Pacquiao, but at the same time, I certainly don't dislike him or root for him to lose. To be honest, I prefer Pacquiao and Marquez over any of the Negroes that HBO regularly features.

Pacquiao always conducts himself as a gentleman and is very respectful to his opponents. He also comes from a very poor background and with his new found finances he often gives back to the poor community. I admire and respect that, and I think he deserves some respect for that.

HBO has an awkward habit of building up crappy Negro fighters into hypejobs, who usually end up getting knocked out when they venture to fight competent Europeans. Allan Green, Danny Jacobs, Seth Mitchell, Andre Berto, Edison Miranda, Jermain Taylor and Joan Guzman are all examples of guys who were hyped up endlessly by HBO and were god damn outclassed when matched against legit fighters. Many of these Negroes ended up getting knocked out by numerous European fighters. Clearly, HBO's "hype" was misplaced and misleading.

These Negro fighters suck and the sad part is American fans actually think they're the best. Best in America? Maybe. But best in the world? Hell no. We've seen time and time again these American Negroes get destroyed by Europeans and other internationals. Its actually quite a regular fixture on German cards to feature American boxers who usually serve as losing opposition to the local fighters.

As for Pacquiao, I do actually feel a bit sorry for him because thats a rough knockout loss to take and it will be hard to come back from that. I can't picture a worse KO loss. There's an expression in boxing: There's knockouts, and then there's "knocked the **** out". Well Pacquiao was "knocked the **** out". Lol! In a way I feel sorry for him cause I don't like to see anyone get knocked out like that.

And yes I fully agree with you, from an entertainment perspective, Pacquiao and Marquez gave some great fights! Pacquiao has been a great fighter over his era, and in a way its sad to see him go out like that. Same with Ricky, going out on a KO loss. Fighters who go out on high notes or wins are few and far between.

Actually, really shows you how special someone like Joe Calzaghe was, managing to stay undefeated and leave the sport on a high note!

 

[Westside]

I actually saw the entire Pacman v Marquez fight on one of the streams provided by Parody. Thanks

Anyways, what a classic brutal fight of elite fighters. Manny was controlling the fight until Marquez dumped him with a huge overhand right in the 3rd. Clearly shakened Manny was able to survive the last 70 seconds. In round 4 Manny clipped Marquez and down went Marquez, also clearly hurt and able to survive the round.

In rd 5 Manny began to dominate and brutalize Marquez by busting up his face. In rd 6, Manny began to feel over confident, sensing he was going to KO Marquez, got careless and got KO'd by one of the most perfect straight right hands in Championship boxing history. Manny dropped like a sack of potatoes. and laid motionless for over 2 mins. I liken the blow to Marciano's epic KO punch of Jersey Joe Wilcot in terms of concussive force and timing, plus the stage and importance of the event.

I wanted Manny to win, but always respected Marquez's HOF boxing skills. The best thing is that Marquez clobbered him rather than Gayweather. I believe there will be a 5th fight. Hopefully Manny will rebound and return the favor. My brother who is a doctor said Manny will never be the same after that concussive blow. I hope my brother is wrong.

 

[Westside]

Splendid stuff!

No "ambiguities" this time...

The 34-year old "pound for pound" midget goes down like the sack of rice (or **** - take Your pick) that he is, knocked out by his 39-year old opponent. But I guess he's still better than the Kiltschkos - "pound for pound" of course...

Here we have the boxing media's favourite Asian showing us just how it's done:

.

Ooohhh, isn't "Manneee" simply the best...

You must have had 100s of negative experiences with Asian people. Don't get your glee in Manny's massive KO loss. other than maybe 1000s of unfortuneate encounters with the likes of Manny and his ilk.?

Maybe its the millions of Chinese setting up cheap take outs, happy ending massage parlors or locked on dry cleaners that actually do a great job of cleaning your clothes. Or something like that?

 

[Leonardfan]

I don't claim to be a boxing expert but the fact that none of the experts seem to complain about the lack of blacks in Pacquio's division like they do for the lack of black's in heavyweight division is very telling. The Klitchsko's are constant targets for the very jewish media that covers boxing. We all know the story about how boxing needs its great black fighters from America to make it relevant again and the Klitchsko's are not great fighters.

It just goes to show that any other race besides whites are celebrated in athletics yet when whites dominate they always try to bring them down and insult them.

The fact that mexicans can cheer on Marquez because he is mexican or filipinos can cheer on Pacqiou because he is from the phillipines yet I cannot root for white athletes no matter what the sport without being labeled racist shows how backwards this society is.

 

[jaxvid]

I don't claim to be a boxing expert but the fact that none of the experts seem to complain about the lack of blacks in Pacquio's division like they do for the lack of black's in heavyweight division is very telling. The Klitchsko's are constant targets for the very jewish media that covers boxing. We all know the story about how boxing needs its great black fighters from America to make it relevant again and the Klitchsko's are not great fighters.

It just goes to show that any other race besides whites are celebrated in athletics yet when whites dominate they always try to bring them down and insult them.

The fact that mexicans can cheer on Marquez because he is mexican or filipinos can cheer on Pacqiou because he is from the phillipines yet I cannot root for white athletes no matter what the sport without being labeled racist shows how backwards this society is.

Great post. Part of the reason I'm not too thrilled by Pacquio is for that very reason.

They actually decided to talk about boxing on sports talk radio today because the Paccy fight generated some web traffic and the local DWF's were without Sunday afternoon amusement because the Lions are playing tonight, and the subject was "is boxing dead".

The DJ actually said something like: who's the heavyweight champ now? It's not Tyson right? and his partner said something to the effect of it's some guy named Klitko or something. They then went on to lament how the sport hasn't been any good since Lennox Lewis was the undisputed champ because with so many boxing organizations there is now no way to be the undisputed champ.

And these guys make their living covering sports. Don't know who the heavyweight champ(s) are, still living in the past with Tyson/Lewis, unaware the Klitschkos have united the boxing titles, not aware that Lewis did not. Crazy. The callers were the same. I had to turn it off.

 

[werewolf]

... I cannot root for white athletes no matter what the sport without being labeled racist shows how backwards this society is.

The word "racist" was only invented in the 1930's (re Webster's Collegiate). It was introduced into the language by the Jewish anthropologist Franz Boas whose "anti-racist crowd was almost entirely Jewish too. The word has been utilized as a bludgeon to destroy the hated white goyim.


ww

 

[Highlander]

I don't claim to be a boxing expert but the fact that none of the experts seem to complain about the lack of blacks in Pacquio's division like they do for the lack of black's in heavyweight division is very telling.

It just goes to show that any other race besides whites are celebrated in athletics yet when whites dominate they always try to bring them down and insult them.

But as soon as Pacquiao actually fights a black fighter (Bradley) and thoroughly beats him (to anyone with eyes that can see) what happens? The judges award the decision to Bradley. If the scenario was reversed, no way that happens.

The fact that mexicans can cheer on Marquez because he is mexican or filipinos can cheer on Pacqiou because he is from the phillipines yet I cannot root for white athletes no matter what the sport without being labeled racist shows how backwards this society is.

Spot on. I even mentioned this to a friend of mine this morning when discussing the fight...about how nice it must be to be able to share a common bond, both ethnically and nationally, with a fighter (or whatever other sporting event, say, soccer) and raucously cheer them on, together.

 

[white is right]

You must have had 100s of negative experiences with Asian people. Don't get your glee in Manny's massive KO loss. other than maybe 1000s of unfortuneate encounters with the likes of Manny and his ilk.?

Maybe its the millions of Chinese setting up cheap take outs, happy ending massage parlors or locked on dry cleaners that actually do a great job of cleaning your clothes. Or something like that?

The violent ko of "Maneee" reminded me of Robinson vs Fullmer or the Hearns ko of Duran. I too feel he is probably never going to be the same as his footwork and volume of punches have noticeibly declined. As for Rebaljo's contempt for East Asians maybe he has the attitude of the cop in 2 Days in the Valley*Warning R rated sexual references are in this clip....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CazBoMUyQ6o

 

[Rebajlo]

You must have had 100s of negative experiences with Asian people. Don't get your glee in Manny's massive KO loss. other than maybe 1000s of unfortuneate encounters with the likes of Manny and his ilk.?

Maybe its the millions of Chinese setting up cheap take outs, happy ending massage parlors or locked on dry cleaners that actually do a great job of cleaning your clothes. Or something like that?

Westside -

For the first part of my reply, simply read Leonardfan and jaxvid's posts above, both of which echo my sentiments.

One cannot possibly argue against the fact that Pacquiao has been used to conveniently remove the focus (what little of it there actually is...) from the Klitschkos. Pacquiao's ugly catfish phiz has appeared on the cover of Time magazine (not that this is a grand distinction, mind You...) but to my knowledge neither of the Klitschko brothers has received that level of mainstream print media exposure, have they?

His "heroic" expoits in various chiefly gnat-weight divisions populated by spindly-limbed Asian and mestizo "mass monsters" who'd probably succumb to a gentle swipe with a fly swatter have been transformed into some kind of legend for the ages.

Four of Pacquiao's much-vaunted eight separate titles have come in divisions ranging up to a paltry 59 kgs. To put that into perspective, how many White adults (18+) could make the weight at flyweight? How about featherweight?

I'm 6' 1.5" tall and was a pretty skinny guy and poster boy for "hard gainers" throughout my 20s (nor am I a man-mountain today) with half of my weight back then quite possibly being attributed to my "glam metal" hair. But even a chronically underweight Rebajlo who was perennially plagued by health problems wouldn't have had a chance of making anything below lightweight - and lightweight itself would have been categorically impossible had I been training and, more importantly, eating like a pro boxer (as things went, I did train myself at a "highly enthusiastic amateur" level using "home" equipment). Yet there's absolutely no way that I could have made lightweight at the age of twenty nine, which is how old Pacquiao was when he won the WBC title in that division. At twenty nine, I was within the middleweight range, yet still visibly underweight for my height and age.

Just to put the boot in, I'm of the opinion that Pacquiao is a steroid user who has been given a free pass by the Jews (sorry - boxing authorities), whose motives for doing so are glaringly obvious. If the heavyweight division was black-dominated, nobody would give a **** about Pacquiao for the technical reasons I have outlined above. He'd be derisively written off as an Asian flea that would be knocked straight through the roof by the "real" boxers in the "real" divisions. Besides, he wouldn't have been allowed to get away with the PED use which enabled him to move all the way up to the vertiginous heights of the big bad super welterweight division, which has a crushing upper limit of just under 70 kg...

I didn't think that my distaste for Asians (which I've explained often enough) would raise eyebrows on a pro-White site. You're from southern California, which has its fair share of Asians - if You like them, then good luck to You...

 

[darthvader]

Although I am not a huge fan of boxing. I do watch and follow it to a certain extent. Whether or not it can be proven or whether it is true I am almost certian that Marquez used PEDS. I wouldn't be surprised at all that pacquaio may have also used PEDS during his rise. Then again you have to use PEDS if you want to get that edge. But that's another topic. From my point of view, all that fame and distraction got to pacquaio. Not that I am a big fan of pacquaio but I do like watching him fight and he does come to fight and wants to give the fans their money's worth. But becoming a congressman was when he started his downfall. It took alot of his time and focus away from boxing. To quote mickey in Rocky 3, "the worst thing happened to you that happens to any fighter, you became civilized." I am sure there will be a fifth fight between pacquaio and marquez. What happens in that fight will most likely determines pacquaio career. As far as the klitschkos, they are so dominant that it is boring for them and also for the fans. From what I have seen of their fights they have the right formula jab and jab and when your opponent comes close tie him up and then jab again. Yhey are also involved in politics I believe and show no signs whatsoever of decline.

 

[Gibbon]

For some reason, it has been unofficially decided that heavyweights weren't in their place in a Pound 4 Pound ranking.
It wasn't an issue when Tyson was ranked N°1 in this very ranking.
.

Yeah, until that amorphous blob Buster Douglas became the de facto pound for pound champion when he cleaned Tyson's clock.