Early look at 2011 NFL draft

[PhillyBirds]

We'll see, but Pegasus to this point has the identical m.o. of a long-time troll here.

And perhaps I'm deceived again. Not the first time

 

[Don Wassall]

"Gerhart ran a 4.55 (confirmed it was the OFFICIAL ELECTRONIC, NOT HAND TIME, which was 4.51), and got the information from people INSIDE the building, scouts from TEAMS, the exact people who you just said are the only people who get the official times that aren't in the top 15"

I follow this stuff just as closely as you do. I remember last year when Toby's fans were screaming bloody murder over his unofficial 4.53 not being included in the official Top 10. That 4.55 came from AVERAGED HANDTIMES from scouts in the building, NOT the official combine electronic time.




FootballDad : "Even Scott Wright at DraftCountdown averaged Toby's 40 out at 4.55, faster than McCluster's 4.58."


ToughJ.Riggins : "Scott Wright who is pretty anti-white had Gerhart's average hand-time at 4.55. NFLdraftscout had Gerhart's best hand time at 4.5 and his worst at 4.61 and his average around the same as Wright."

"A Virginia Tech engineering major did some little project to get more accurate data on his school's athletes. Did something to where he had the film and ran it in slow mo to get the exact time he started and the exact time he finished. Turns out by his project, Grimm ran in the mid 4.5 range (I think 4.53), quite the difference from the 4.64 the nfl had listed for him. And from the way he played this year at safety, I would say 4.64 is a ridiculous time to put on him. Btw, he ran a 4.48 at his pro day. Usually hand times from the same year aren't off by .16, and I doubt the guy who did the project would be off by .11"

Really? Are you sure that's how it happened? From your very post regarding this incident:


"an engineering major from Tech looked at the film of all the players that ran and had did something to where he could time it right when it started and right when it ended, I think the margin of error was .02. He had Grimm in the 4.5 range, and this was before the 2009 season, before he was preparing for the combine."


So basically what you're telling me is the NFL has an anti-white bias because an engineering major timed some OTHER footage of Grimm, running some OTHER 40, at some OTHER time, on some OTHER track, under some OTHER conditions, and had the unmitigated gallto say the time was .11 off of the time he ran at the 2010 combine. Haha, good one.

"9 times out of 10 the hand time is a little bit faster ( usually not much of a difference when getting into the 4.5 range), well no sh*t. When is a hand time ever slower? Coincidentally the one time Newton runs?"

Chris Johnson ran an unofficial 4.29. His official was an even faster 4.24.


http://theredzonereport.com/2008/02/24/sun-night-combine-notes-feb-24/150/

You read fine? I guess you just skipped over those things above

Or are you just going to pick and choose which arguments you want to make and ignore the rest when you have no explanation?

Naa, didn't skip over anything.

And your posts have to do what with supporting White athletes?

 

[celticdb15]

Big thumbs up to draftdaddy!!




Back in 2009 we included current N.F.L. starters Austin Collie and Brian Hartline in our top 100 (when most projected them as late rounders/career backups) because of their excellent shuttle runs at the Combine -- both showed amazing short area quickness. This year Dane Sanzenbacher and Jeff Maehl had the top 3 Cone & 60 yard shuttle times. The pair, also, finished 2nd and 3rd in the 20 yard shuttle, according to these Unofficial Wide Receiver Combine Numbers....I'm not sure we'll rank Dane and Jeff in our top 100, but they definitely caught our eye at the Combine, despite not running blazing 40's.***

 

[celticdb15]

Pegasus what do you think of WRs Jeff Maehl and Dane Sanzenbacher??

 

[Pegasus]

Pegasus what do you think of WRs Jeff Maehl and Dane Sanzenbacher??

<div>
</div><div>I loved Oregon's offense, and think Maehl is badass. As a Michigan-bred Wolverine fan I hate all things Buckeye. Once Dane is scrubbed clean of the scarlet and gray, I'm sure I'll appreciate his talents a little more.</div>

 

[snow]

"Gerhart ran a 4.55 (confirmed it was the OFFICIAL ELECTRONIC, NOT HAND
TIME, which was 4.51), and got the information from people INSIDE the
building, scouts from TEAMS, the exact people who you just said are the
only people who get the official times that aren't in the top 15"

<div>
</div><div>I follow this stuff just as closely as you do. I remember last year when Toby's fans were screaming bloody murder over his unofficial 4.53 not being included in the official Top 10. That 4.55 came from AVERAGED HANDTIMES from scouts in the building, NOT the official combine electronic time.</div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>FootballDad : "Even Scott Wright at DraftCountdown averaged Toby's 40 out at 4.55, faster than McCluster's 4.58."</span></div><div>
</div><div>ToughJ.Riggins : "Scott Wright who is pretty anti-white had Gerhart's average hand-time at 4.55. NFLdraftscout had Gerhart's best hand time at 4.5 and his worst at 4.61 and his average around the same as Wright."</span></div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>

"A Virginia Tech engineering major did some little project to get more
accurate data on his school's athletes. Did something to where he had
the film and ran it in slow mo to get the exact time he started and the
exact time he finished. Turns out by his project, Grimm ran in the mid
4.5 range (I think 4.53), quite the difference from the 4.64 the nfl had
listed for him. And from the way he played this year at safety, I would
say 4.64 is a ridiculous time to put on him. Btw, he ran a 4.48 at his
pro day. Usually hand times from the same year aren't off by .16, and I
doubt the guy who did the project would be off by .11"

</div><div>
</div><div>Really? Are you sure that's how it happened? From your very post regarding this incident:</div><div>
</div><div>"an engineering major from Tech looked at the film of all the players that ran and had did something to where he could time it right when it started and right when it ended, I think the margin of error was .02. He had Grimm in the 4.5 range, and this was before the 2009 season, before he was preparing for the combine."</span></div><div>
</span></div><div>So basically what you're telling me is the NFL has an anti-white bias because an engineering major timed some OTHER footage of Grimm, running some OTHER 40, at some OTHER time, on some OTHER track, under some OTHER conditions, and that it was .11 faster than the time he ran at the 2010 combine? And that's proof positive of some clandestined plot to turtle him up? Haha, good one.</span></div><div>
</span></div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>

"9 times out of 10 the hand time is a little bit faster ( usually not
much of a difference when getting into the 4.5 range), well no sh*t.
When is a hand time ever slower? Coincidentally the one time Newton runs?"

</div><div>
</div><div>Chris Johnson ran an unofficial 4.29. His official was an even faster 4.24.</div><div>
</div><div>http://theredzonereport.com/2008/02/24/sun-night-combine-notes-feb-24/150/</div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div><div>

You read fine? I guess you just skipped over those things above

Or are you just going to pick and choose which arguments you want to make and ignore the rest when you have no explanation?

</div></div><div>
</div><div>Naa, didn't skip over anything.</div>

Actually the kid wound up doing more than one review. You know the search button only can find so many things, but im glad you spent all that time to back up your claims. Besides he ran a 4.48 at his pro day, I don't care what conditions it is in or whether its hand timed, you rarely have a .16 difference in the same year, the only other instance I can think of is Joe Haden who got it down .17. I also highly doubt he became more than a .10 slower on a different track after an extra year, with months of actually preparing to run for the combine.

You do realize your quoting posters about the information about Scott Wright, not Scott Wright himself? Yes he personally averaged him out at 4.55, but it was verified by people in the building, scouts of teams, weeks later, because I had this same exact argument with the posters on his board who said he ran a 4.6 once he wasn't listed as a top performer, and we had to wait for little while until all of the info came out. You can go read his actual posts if you want, since you seem to concerned with proving that Newton actually ran a 4.59 and not slower, and that Gerhart ran a 4.6 or slower, and that Grimm ran a 4.64.l So what is your argument? the NFL DOESN'T have an anti white bias? The Cody Grimm thing was just one instance. If you look around the site I think you'll find many more, and no not all of it has to do with 40 yard timing, because none of us are able to verify that information.

And seriously, you are going to compare me to bigunreal? there is a difference between fudging some times and the entire NFL going about their business like WWE. Nice way to try and discredit me to make yourself look good though.

Do you believe racial discrimination happens to white players? If so, why would it be so hard to believe

And the real issue I have is not really .01 of a 40 yard dash time with Newton. It is the propping up by media when last year it was the exact opposite with Tebow, both ran similar systems, Newton had a better coordinator and the competition was weaker this year. What really puts Cam Newton in the first round? I see a bunch of things that should take him out of the first round. Besides "potential", there is no reason he belongs there.


and why exactly were you following whether Toby ran a 4.55 or slower and so concerned? why do you refer to them as "toby fans"? are you not a fan of Toby Gerhart? you know the WHITE runningback who won the DOAK WALKER award for nations best runningback?
Edited by: snow

 

[Don Wassall]

Marshall Faulk proclaims Mark Ingram (4.62) "as advertised." If Toby Gerhart had run over 4.60 at the Combine last year he would have been unable toescape being labeleda "fullback."

 

[TheAnimal]

<div>All I did was give an explanation of the difference between Jake Locker's unofficial 4.52 and his official 4.59.
</div>

That dog don't hunt. His numbers were 4.52 and 4.53. The official number the NFL released. The unofficial number released was 4.52. It was later changed to 4.59 after sCam Newton couldn't best it. Unfortunately for some I happen to know a scout in the NFL whose team needs a quarterback who was there and confirmed what others have stated elsewhere. The 40 wasn't 4.59. The number the NFL was giving to teams scouts wasn't 4.59. In fact the number 4.59 wasn't even mentioned until sCam was given that number which btw, noone had him clocked at to begin with. The best number anyone came up with was 4.6. Now am I saying it's a conspiracy? No, just a tad fishy is all the NFL decides both ran 4.59 despite neither guy being clocked at that.

There is a reason teams clock their own 40's when they work out prospects, the Combines numbers can't be trusted. Think that's a conspiracy? Go read around. There's plenty of General Managers out there that discuss every year how their official 40 times of a player is nowhere near what the official combine time was.

In this instance we have a kid who has been clocked multiple times UNofficially while at Washington in the 4.4 range pulling a 4.52 and 4.53 that was later changed to a 4.59. Yeah, that's a little fishy especially when the player that's being hyped up as having Mike Vick speed pulls up Ray Lewis speed and suddenly the whiteboy they JUST SO HAPPENED to drop from #1 overall caliber to a 3rd round prospect is owning him in the one skill he has. Btw, that's the Ray Lewis of LAST year, not the Ray Lewis coming out of College. Even at that Lewis still pulled a faster 40 in 2009 than sCam Newton at the combine.

 

[Deadlift]

I'm glad that Bruce Miller did 35-reps in the bench!

On the field, I've seen him manhandle 330-pound sumos, shove them back with such force. His build looks pretty normal, too.

 

[backrow]

NFL Network's Mike Mayock calls Wisconsin DE J.J. Watt the best "five-technique" end he's ever seen.
"Better than Tyson Jackson who went No. 3 overall [in the 2009 draft]," added Mayock. Wisconsin coach Bret Bielema, who coached Aaron Kampman at Iowa, says he's never had "anybody better" as a defensive lineman. "J.J.'s just got a little more burst and athletic ability," said Bielema. "But same type of temperament."

 

[Don Wassall]

DraftDaddy shows signs of life:

Back in 2009 we included current N.F.L. starters Austin Collie and Brian Hartline in our top 100 (when most projected them as late rounders/career backups) because of their excellent shuttle runs at the Combine -- both showed amazing short area quickness. This year Dane Sanzenbacher and Jeff Maehl had the top 3 Cone &amp; 60 yard shuttle times. The pair, also, finished 2nd and 3rd in the 20 yard shuttle, according to these Unofficial Wide Receiver Combine Numbers....I'm not sure we'll rank Dane and Jeff in our top 100, but they definitely caught our eye at the Combine, despite not running blazing 40's.

 

[JReb1]

The shuttle times are much more accurate at displaying a prospects football speed than a 40 yard dash since they'll never run 40 yards unabated in the NFL.

I would like to see Tebow and Newton's shuttle times compared but the MSM will probably only show that Newton had a faster 40 time and the DWFs will buy the BS lie that he's "much faster" than Tebow...

 

[whiteathlete33]

Maehl's numbers are incredible except for his 40 time. Mike Hass had an almost identical 40 time and was more productive than Maehl in college , yet we know what happened to him.

 

[whiteathlete33]

Now take a look at this. Ingram runs a 4.58 but still get props from Walterfootball. Why? Check it out.


Mark Ingram, RB, Alabama

Mark Ingram's 40 time wasn't impressive (4.58), but he had the best
10-yard split of all the running backs, which is far more important. It
would be shocking if Ingram made it past the Dolphins at No. 15.

 

[SuperSpeed23]

John clay ran a 4.87 i believe. Isnt it funny how hes not being thought of as a fullback? Must be nice when your o-line gave you all the room you could ever want to run through.

 

[Irn Bru]

Some really solid times for our D line guys. Kerrigan and Brooks Reed ran unofficial 4.67s and JJ Watt ran a 4.78 at 290 pounds.

 

[whiteathlete33]

Unfortunately, Winterswyk only ran a 4.99. That's pretty pathetic considering he's only 268 lbs. Hopefully he still gets drafted though.

 

[Irn Bru]

Oregon linebacker Casey Matthews (Clay's brother) produced a measly 13 bench press reps at 225 lbs.



That's really pathetic for a 6-2, 230+ pound linebacker....and especially embarrassing when you consider that he is the brother, son, and grandson of former NFL and NCAA athletes.



I played DII college football for two years, so I did my share of weight-lighting 4-5 years back. Today, I'm far from a "dedicated"Â￾ weight-lifter (once or twice a week in my basement). I typically do 10 reps at 225 lbs as a "warm-up set."Â￾ It's really sad knowing that I can easily out-bench one of the top 10 linebacker prospects in the nation.



Unless Matthews runs, leaps, and jumps amazingly well, he won't be drafted. A white athlete must be twice as productive in order to receive half the opportunities of their black counterparts.

They reported on the coverage that Matthews injured his shoulder while benching, and is now out of the combine, but will work out on his pro day. That has to be the reason for the low number.

As a BC alum, I'm happy to see Herzlich come in 3rd with 29 reps on the bench. Anyone who's watched his games this season can see he wasn't 100% until maybe the last game. It's sad that he was probably a top 15 pick before he got cancer, but I think he'll have a good combine and get drafted by the 3rd or 4th round.

 

[Freethinker]

As a BC alum, I'm happy to see Herzlich come in 3rd with 29 reps on the bench.  Anyone who's watched his games this season can see he wasn't 100% until maybe the last game.  It's sad that he was probably a top 15 pick before he got cancer, but I think he'll have a good combine and get drafted by the 3rd or 4th round.

Considering all of the strength and muscle loss from the chemotherapy, 29 reps is amazing. What a sign of White strength and determination. Most of the black linebackers can only dream of 29 reps. The team that selects Herzlich will certainly have a steal of a 1st round talent.

 

[TwentyTwo]

Whata breath of fresh air for D-Lineman this year...hopefully last year's nightmarewas an anomoly....

J.J.Watt is on another level! But Mayock thought he hit the pads a little high...Warren Sappdefended him saying "he's a tall guy"

DE-(SAM LBer)Bruce Miller looked impressive in the agility drills...WOW!!

DTChris Nield is a fire-hydrant at 319lbs...

Rickey Elmore was not invited to the combine??Edited by: TwentyTwo

 

[snow]

Looking around forums, more drooling over Mark Ingram's 10 yard split. Where were these people when Hester had a 1.5 even split? They didn't even seem to know it was a good quality for a back to have until Ingram ran a 4.6. Of course I get shot down when making the Hester comparison like its ridiculous to compare the two. Both ran all over the SEC, both have good hands, I swear if you read some of Ingram's scouting reports without the name I couldn't tell you whether they were talking about Hester or Ingram. Both were key players in their teams National Championship season, the only difference was Ingram was SHUT DOWN by Auburn that year. In LSU's toughest battle in 2007, Hester was the key to winning, making many 3rd and 4th down conversions against Florida. Both ran a 4.6, both had great 10 yard splits, Hesters was better and he is also stronger/bigger. But no, the only comparison to Ingram is Emmit Smith for some reason. I have a better comparison for Ingram, Pierre Thomas, good back in a runningback by committee that can't stay healthy because of his running style with his lack of bulk.

As far as John Clay, do Wisconsin fans ever question why not a white guy to run behind their line? Im supposed to believe not one single white kid in Wisconsin is capable of doing what Clay did? Clay timed in at that weighing at 230, he was reportedly up to 270 playing at Wisconsin at one point, which he admitted himself (well he said 268, close enough)..

At least the articles aren't trying to spin his 10 yard split.

<h1>"Clay runs with feet of clay at NFL combine"</h1>but I love the words below it....wait for it
<h2>Wisconsin back could slide in draft after slow 40-yard dash time</h2>Clay COULD slide after running a 4.8. I wonder where Toby wouldve wound up with that time, thats right pretty much everyone said he was destined for fullback if he ran a 4.6 or slower. Kind of odd the first back picked this year will have run a 4.62, identical to 2009 with Moreno, with Wells being picked later in the 1st with a 4.59, but supposedly Toby didn't have enough qualities to be a first round pick because he lacked elite top end speed. Toby, btw had a 1.55 10 yard split, but also a 38 inch vertical which also shows explosiveness.

Edit: I was looking up to find the scouting report that I read earlier on Ingram that seemed identical to Hester, found this gem first:

<div>[*] Elusive with some wiggle in open field
[*] Good genetics
[*] Extremely productive
</div>
Is that something we should at to the list along with room brightening smile? haha

Here is the scouting report, Hester or Ingram?

Inside running is the strongest part of ________ game as he possesses a strong frame and the understanding to always maintain a low pad level. He also demonstrates excellent acceleration to press the line quickly showcasing an exceptional burst through the hole. As a one cut runner he is at his best, when he is able to use his elite vision and instincts to routinely pick the right hole. He also displays a strong leg drive, always pumping his legs and moving the pile forward for extra yards. In addition _____ also showcases outstanding patience as he waits for plays to develop allowing his teammates to set up their blocks.


Showcasing excellent ball security, _____ has only fumbled the ball twice during his time at ______ At times _______ does still carry the ball high but his hands are so strong and he clutches the ball so tightly that defenders find it nearly impossible to knock the ball out.


While _____ does show some shiftiness in the open field and the ability to make a guy miss in tight areas, elusiveness is not really a focal point of his game. ______ is more or a power runner who stays low and compact, not giving defenders much to hit while regularly running through contact. Bottom line, if you want to tackle Ingram you better wrap him up.


Excellent leg drive, ______ has a strong lower half, is extremely powerful and is able to run through contact. He also exhibits the ability to move the pile always churning his feet forward. _____ strong leg drive is evident by him getting around half of his career yards after contact.


His balance is elite in every sense of the word and it is extremely difficult to knock him off stride. From a physical standpoint _____ only drawback is his top end speed as it is not elite which may limit some of his big play ability.


Generally the first thing people notice about _____ when they watch him run is his never say die attitude and how he does not shy away from contact

_____ has played against the very best in college football in the SEC conference and there is no doubt he will excel in the NFL.

While _____ lacks elite elusiveness he does have the ability to make defenders miss at times in the open field with his short area quickness; generally though he opts to just power through them.


Edited by: snow

 

[Leonardfan]

Ross Homan and Colin McCarthy both showed well today running in the mid 4.6s

 

[forty-four]

Casey Matthews hurt his shoulder during the bench & is out of the combine.

 

[celticdb15]

Draftdaddy pointing out a "draft guru" blatant racism towards Purdue DE Ryan Kerrigan!




Related Item: NFP "draft guru" has more D-Line N.F.L. Combine notes; claims he's shocked that Ryan Kerrigan showed some athletic ability, but still believes he's "tight hipped and stiff".

 

[warhawk46]

What a racist scumbag!<div>
</div><div>If he is unbiased and objective, he wouldn't be shocked. Kerrigan beat tackles with speed and agility, as well as strength, all year long. YOu don't lead the nation in TFLs with "stiff hips"</div>