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As always, DraftDaddy can be counted to give objective assessments of white players. Here's what they wrote about Ed Hinkel after Iowa's Pro Day:
Wide receiver Ed Hinkle is vastly underrated, we think. Despite having the possession receiver tag, he ran consecutive 4.50 40's at the Combine. That's decent speed for a tough receiver that excels at carving up opposing defenses going over the middle.....He's pound per pound very tough and can also do well as a punt returner. We'd consider drafting Hinkel in the 4th or 5th round.
And this about Chad Greenway:
Linebacker Chad Greenway showed well at Pro Day, running a 4.58 and 4.62 40. Those were considerably better than his 40 times in Indy. Honestly, we don't need a stop watch to see Greenway has great game speed.....Chad Jackson of Florida ran a 4.31 40 at the Combine and has been our top ranked receiver since we met him at the Senior Bowl. Anyway, watch tape of the Outback Bowl and check out Greenway covering Jackson in the red zone. Both are elite athletes, but the fact that a linebacker like Greenway would hold his own against a speed receiver like Jackson says a lot about his game speed....Greenway should be a first round pick, it's just a matter of which team takes him.
Even though linebacker has become a predominantly black position, the great ones like Greenway, Carpenter, Hawk, Poszlusny, etc., still get acclaim and are acknowledged as likely first round picks, while equally talented whites at WR, RB, and defensive back are always downgraded. Ed Hinkel should be just as highly touted as Greenway, especially when the "experts" are proclaiming this a bad draft for wide receivers.
Wide receiver Ed Hinkle is vastly underrated, we think. Despite having the possession receiver tag, he ran consecutive 4.50 40's at the Combine. That's decent speed for a tough receiver that excels at carving up opposing defenses going over the middle.....He's pound per pound very tough and can also do well as a punt returner. We'd consider drafting Hinkel in the 4th or 5th round.
And this about Chad Greenway:
Linebacker Chad Greenway showed well at Pro Day, running a 4.58 and 4.62 40. Those were considerably better than his 40 times in Indy. Honestly, we don't need a stop watch to see Greenway has great game speed.....Chad Jackson of Florida ran a 4.31 40 at the Combine and has been our top ranked receiver since we met him at the Senior Bowl. Anyway, watch tape of the Outback Bowl and check out Greenway covering Jackson in the red zone. Both are elite athletes, but the fact that a linebacker like Greenway would hold his own against a speed receiver like Jackson says a lot about his game speed....Greenway should be a first round pick, it's just a matter of which team takes him.
Even though linebacker has become a predominantly black position, the great ones like Greenway, Carpenter, Hawk, Poszlusny, etc., still get acclaim and are acknowledged as likely first round picks, while equally talented whites at WR, RB, and defensive back are always downgraded. Ed Hinkel should be just as highly touted as Greenway, especially when the "experts" are proclaiming this a bad draft for wide receivers.
white tornado
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From draft daddy
As most draft fans know, yesterday was Texas quarterback Vince Young's Pro day, and if one reads the major media, it appears to have been a rousing success.
But Draft Daddy has been speaking with insiders and other influential football minds, and it is becoming clear that Vince's workout day wasn't as amazing as some have said. His throwing was good, but the types of throws he was attempting were, to be frank, easy and intermediate level throws at best. Some scouts were unhappy that more difficult throws such as long outs and deep go's were not attempted. Further, the lack of inclement weather conditions such as wind and rain inside the practice dome where the workout was held eliminated a major variable that could have answered questions about his pass technique.
Regarding the physical workout, the fact that Vince Young had to be practically begged to run a 40 yard dash speaks volumes about his true speed. Simply put, Vince Young isn't all that fast. He wouldn't run in Indy and didn't want to run in Texas - for a guy who is supposed to be blindingly fast what is Vince hiding? "Unathletic" (not our words) quarterback Bruce Gradkowski from Toledo ran in the same neighborhood of 4.6 at the Combine and no one is claiming him as the next Michael Jordan-type player to come down the pike.
What does this all add up to? Same as prior to the workout, Vince Young is a hype machine. Major media outlets and high profile draft guru's love to tout this player because he is exciting and an easy sell to casual fans. In the league he will be a jersey seller, a highlight reel, an occasional beater of bad defenses. However speed-wise he is not a Mike Vick caliber athlete, nor is he even a Matt Jones caliber athlete. Sooner or later someone just as fast (or faster) than Vince Young, but bigger and meaner (e.g. John Abraham, Shawne Merriman, Julius Peppers) will catch this running quarterback and violently convey that the NFL is not the Big 12. When (not if but when) that happens, Vince Young will be forced to become a drop-back quarterback (similar career track as Donovan McNabb, but with worse throwing mechanics).
History has shown that playoff teams don't win in bad weather with run-first quarterback's. In fact, there has never been a quarterback in the history of the league to win the Super Bowl after rushing for more than 300 yards in the regular season. Since the days of Staubach we have heard about runners that will revolutionize the quarterback position. Long story short, it never happens. Wouldn't it make sense for quarterback-needy teams just to take a pocket passer from the get-go?
Not only does draft daddy give fair assesments to white players but I think they are acurate with black players to.
As most draft fans know, yesterday was Texas quarterback Vince Young's Pro day, and if one reads the major media, it appears to have been a rousing success.
But Draft Daddy has been speaking with insiders and other influential football minds, and it is becoming clear that Vince's workout day wasn't as amazing as some have said. His throwing was good, but the types of throws he was attempting were, to be frank, easy and intermediate level throws at best. Some scouts were unhappy that more difficult throws such as long outs and deep go's were not attempted. Further, the lack of inclement weather conditions such as wind and rain inside the practice dome where the workout was held eliminated a major variable that could have answered questions about his pass technique.
Regarding the physical workout, the fact that Vince Young had to be practically begged to run a 40 yard dash speaks volumes about his true speed. Simply put, Vince Young isn't all that fast. He wouldn't run in Indy and didn't want to run in Texas - for a guy who is supposed to be blindingly fast what is Vince hiding? "Unathletic" (not our words) quarterback Bruce Gradkowski from Toledo ran in the same neighborhood of 4.6 at the Combine and no one is claiming him as the next Michael Jordan-type player to come down the pike.
What does this all add up to? Same as prior to the workout, Vince Young is a hype machine. Major media outlets and high profile draft guru's love to tout this player because he is exciting and an easy sell to casual fans. In the league he will be a jersey seller, a highlight reel, an occasional beater of bad defenses. However speed-wise he is not a Mike Vick caliber athlete, nor is he even a Matt Jones caliber athlete. Sooner or later someone just as fast (or faster) than Vince Young, but bigger and meaner (e.g. John Abraham, Shawne Merriman, Julius Peppers) will catch this running quarterback and violently convey that the NFL is not the Big 12. When (not if but when) that happens, Vince Young will be forced to become a drop-back quarterback (similar career track as Donovan McNabb, but with worse throwing mechanics).
History has shown that playoff teams don't win in bad weather with run-first quarterback's. In fact, there has never been a quarterback in the history of the league to win the Super Bowl after rushing for more than 300 yards in the regular season. Since the days of Staubach we have heard about runners that will revolutionize the quarterback position. Long story short, it never happens. Wouldn't it make sense for quarterback-needy teams just to take a pocket passer from the get-go?
Not only does draft daddy give fair assesments to white players but I think they are acurate with black players to.
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From CNNSI...
John Busing, LB, Miami (Ohio): Another impressive RedHawks linebacker, Busing ran a 4.53 40 and looked incredibly athletic. At the end of the session he dazzled scouts with a terrific pass-catching workout after being asked to try his hand at tight end.
I saw this little piece on the top 10 risers of the draft and he was like number 6. I googled him and he is white.
John Busing, LB, Miami (Ohio): Another impressive RedHawks linebacker, Busing ran a 4.53 40 and looked incredibly athletic. At the end of the session he dazzled scouts with a terrific pass-catching workout after being asked to try his hand at tight end.
I saw this little piece on the top 10 risers of the draft and he was like number 6. I googled him and he is white.
hedgehog
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I am convinced draftdaddy is aware of "castefootball" standard operating procedures and refuses to play along. I have seen more then enough evidence of this in their reports.
I agree. It's another harbinger of better days to come for white athletes. The Caste System won't fall all at once, but many aspects of it are so blatantly one-sided, unfair, and absurd that more and more people will see it as such, including independent sites like DraftDaddy that obviously have a following.
Maple Leaf
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Now I don't know much about NFL football but as an outsider some things seem simple enough. This running QB stuff does not make much sense to me. It seems to me that the QB's job is to get the ball to his receivers, right? Well if the QB is busy running, what are the receivers? Decoys? I understand a QB sneak or two here or there but trying to run 10+ plays a game? That sounds risky to me and eventually that QB is going to take a bad hit.
Another thing that seems evident is that the QB is the most important player on the field and it is he who is going to make or break most of the games. The QB is the man with the ball, it is up to him where it ends up. If he is hurt because he got caught running around too much how usefull is he?
No man is great at everything, no man can do it all. How can a QB be a great passer and rusher at the same time? If a player is running his passes will likely be less accurate then if he was standing. And if a QB is running it will probably give the DB's more time to catch up with the receivers and probably lead to more interceptions or incomplete passes.
A "running QB" type would most likely spend less time practicing passing as would his "pure passer" counterpart and would probably be inferior in this skill. Since a QB's job by definition is to pass, inferior passing skills should damage his value.
There are always exceptions to the rules but it seems to me the QB should pass and leave the running to a RB who can better take the pounding anyway.
Edited by: Maple Leaf
Another thing that seems evident is that the QB is the most important player on the field and it is he who is going to make or break most of the games. The QB is the man with the ball, it is up to him where it ends up. If he is hurt because he got caught running around too much how usefull is he?
No man is great at everything, no man can do it all. How can a QB be a great passer and rusher at the same time? If a player is running his passes will likely be less accurate then if he was standing. And if a QB is running it will probably give the DB's more time to catch up with the receivers and probably lead to more interceptions or incomplete passes.
A "running QB" type would most likely spend less time practicing passing as would his "pure passer" counterpart and would probably be inferior in this skill. Since a QB's job by definition is to pass, inferior passing skills should damage his value.
There are always exceptions to the rules but it seems to me the QB should pass and leave the running to a RB who can better take the pounding anyway.
Edited by: Maple Leaf
sport historian
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First of all, the QB is the most important player in the offense. If the QB is not the key player, the team has an inadequate QB. On the NFL level, the winning QB is able to stay in the pocket, read the coverage, and get the ball downfield to the receivers. This means that most of the time the most important player will be white, a long time frustration to white liberals.
Having more running QB's will get more black QB's into the NFL. They may be favored because they make good ESPN highlights and more corporate money. There had been black running QB's in college footballl for decades. The fact that the drop back passer will always be a more consistent winner can't be changed, barring rule changes, something like no more than 15 passes in a game.
Having more running QB's will get more black QB's into the NFL. They may be favored because they make good ESPN highlights and more corporate money. There had been black running QB's in college footballl for decades. The fact that the drop back passer will always be a more consistent winner can't be changed, barring rule changes, something like no more than 15 passes in a game.
I believe the reason there are not that many running QBs in the pros is that no pro teams run the option, and also defensive players are way faster in the pros, so having a running QB is not as effective as it is in college. Troy Smith for example, stud in college, he wouldn't last a day in the NFL playing how he does.
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Troy Smith is the QB for OSU right? After that bowl game against ND everyone on other sites seemed to be jumping all over Smith..all he is is Micheal Robinson.
One of the biggest drawbacks to a running QB is how it effects their passing. Note also how often the guy that is tackled is the last guy to the huddle. Getting hit on your shoulder, arm, hands, and being dragged to the ground and getting banged around is not good for the throwing skills. It also effects the ability to think, I'm sure many running backs play entire games in a daze from the punishment. This is true for anyone no matter how good an athlete.
white tornado
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Theres a diferance between a qb that runs only when they have to like Steve young and one like Vick that runs because they can't pass. Would you rather hav a qb like steve youg ot Berney Kosar.
white tornado said:
Yes, good point. Jerry Rice did quite well with a running QB (Young) at the helm. The difference is judgement.
Speaking of Jerry Rice. He and Mike Haas are a lot alike. Neither one was renowned for his speed and both have greathands. If I ran an NFL team I would not hesitate to pick Mike Haas with my first pick. I would make him another Steve Largent or a white Jerry Rice.
pittbc7 said:
Here's what DraftDaddy wrote about Busing today:
Miami (Ohio) linebacker John Busing "steals the show" at the RedHawks Pro Day, with a fantastic display of speed and strength.
DD.com comment: Some NFL teams in attendance said John Bushing's physical tools and explosive power were better than nearly every other linebacker they had seen in the draft and, coupling that with his All- MAC selections and two consecutive season's with over 100 tackles, "The Beast" may be one of the fast rising players on draft day.....Too bad Busing worked out after we did our "All-Ring-Tailed Lemur Team" -- Fast climbers.Edited by: Don Wassall
DraftDaddy's latest first round mock has 9 whites going in the first round. Most mocks I've seen usually have just 5, but their's are legit players. They think TE Joe Klopfenstein of Colorado will go in the first round. He has been running 40s in the 4.5 range and is a physical freak.
http://www.draftdaddy.com/MD/MDstat.cfm
http://www.draftdaddy.com/MD/MDstat.cfm
white lightning
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That's a very good time for Bush and will probably guarantee that he is the number one overall pick.I'm sure he worked on his speed before the Pro Day like the other guys.He is more of a 4.4 guy in general though which is still very fast.It's ironic that cornerback Josh Golden ran him down in a game yet he wasn't even given a look for the nfl.I guess if you are a white cornerback,you need not apply despite incredible speed!
I can't recall if we've mentioned Andy Wellendorf yet and I don't feel like going all the way back through this monster thread to find out just now, but here's a couple short items on him. He's yet another very talented white receiver, just one of many who should be dominating that position in the NFL.
from DraftDaddy: College of Mount St. Joseph wide receiver Andy Wellendorf (6'5"; 4.49 40-time, 37" vert, 10' 6" broad) has drawn strong interest from the Cincinnati Bengals, who will work him out privately. Onlookers at Miami (Ohio) Pro Day say he worked out well, showing clutch hands.
He impressed NFL types when he showed up at the Combine on his own and went around introducing himself to NFL coaches and GM's. Wellendorf, who reminds some of currently injured Seattle Seahawks wide receiver Jehreme Urban, could surprise people and be drafted in the latter rounds. At the very least, he'll be a priority free agent.
from KFFL.com: NFL | Wellendorf works out at Pro Day
Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:14:24 -0800
Pete Conrad, of the Journal-News, reports College of Mount St. Joseph WR Andy Wellendorf competed in drills at his Pro Day. Wellendorf reportedly caught everything thrown his way.
<HR>
NCAA | Wellendorf shows up at the Combine
Mon, 27 Feb 2006 18:30:12 -0800
Chick Ludwig, of the Dayton Daily News, reports WR Andy Wellendorf from The College of Mount St. Joseph showed up at the NFL Combine, despite not being invited. The 6-5, 217-pound wide receiver got to meet head coaches Jon Gruden (Buccaneers), Art Shell (Raiders) and Bill Parcells (Cowboys). With 4.56 speed and a 37-inch vertical, Wellendorf has a little bit of WR Joe Jurevicius in him.Edited by: Don Wassall
from DraftDaddy: College of Mount St. Joseph wide receiver Andy Wellendorf (6'5"; 4.49 40-time, 37" vert, 10' 6" broad) has drawn strong interest from the Cincinnati Bengals, who will work him out privately. Onlookers at Miami (Ohio) Pro Day say he worked out well, showing clutch hands.
He impressed NFL types when he showed up at the Combine on his own and went around introducing himself to NFL coaches and GM's. Wellendorf, who reminds some of currently injured Seattle Seahawks wide receiver Jehreme Urban, could surprise people and be drafted in the latter rounds. At the very least, he'll be a priority free agent.
from KFFL.com: NFL | Wellendorf works out at Pro Day
Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:14:24 -0800
Pete Conrad, of the Journal-News, reports College of Mount St. Joseph WR Andy Wellendorf competed in drills at his Pro Day. Wellendorf reportedly caught everything thrown his way.
<HR>
NCAA | Wellendorf shows up at the Combine
Mon, 27 Feb 2006 18:30:12 -0800
Chick Ludwig, of the Dayton Daily News, reports WR Andy Wellendorf from The College of Mount St. Joseph showed up at the NFL Combine, despite not being invited. The 6-5, 217-pound wide receiver got to meet head coaches Jon Gruden (Buccaneers), Art Shell (Raiders) and Bill Parcells (Cowboys). With 4.56 speed and a 37-inch vertical, Wellendorf has a little bit of WR Joe Jurevicius in him.Edited by: Don Wassall
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Wellendorf is a great specimen with all the measureables so I am hoping he can get a decent shot.