Draft

[Don Wassall]

That's such a typical Caste System story -- walk-on, tremendous physical tools yet still plays behind unproductive black starters. Usually the story only gets worse the closer a white player gets to the NFL. Let's hope that Kilmer is indeed that rare exception like Beebe and gets an opportunity.

 

[Guest]

I hope so to Don, he has to open someone's eyes. To be that raw at the position yet still put up numbers like that is something that is called potential when talking about black players...ex. Vince Young. Kilmer has all the tools needed to be a starting wideout in the NFL and I hope some team realizes it. Maybe Martz will see it but he has his plate full of choclate wrs.

What do you think about the Bills signing Bowen? Personally I am happy, Leonhard should make the team due to his great skills as a return man and will hopefully see some playing time...he is such a ballhawk. Rob Lee has been allocated to NFL Europe and I hope he makes some noise over there. I checked on the Bills website and he is being listed as a CB which makes me happy for sure.

 

[Guest]

Kilmer's official Pro Day numbers from Scout.com

19 Bench Reps
4.38 40 yd dash
10 ft. 10 in broad jump
41 inch vert

hell of a job Ethan...I think he has a real good chance of getting drafted early on day 2.

 

[Don Wassall]

Pitt, I figure with all those white DBs, some of them are gonna play. I read the other day that Coy Wireis the starting strong safety now that Lawyer Milloy has been released, but that he supposedly has weak coverage skills. But Wire was set to be the starter until the Bills got Milloy in the first place and I think he'll be fine. Bowen was doing great early in '04 till he blew out a knee. He's fast and hits like a freight train. I'm less optimistic about Leonhard and Lee.


Kilmer may end up being reminiscent of Beebe and of Sean Bennett, who was drafted in the fourth round by the Giants as a tailback despite being a rarely used fullback his senior year at Northwestern. But he had been a very productive tailback at a small school before transferring to Northwestern. It's a shame he was injury prone, he had size, speed and running ability.

 

[Guest]

I was reading on the Bills message boards and of course alot of the idiot fans were whining about the signing of Bowen and him being a white safety and reading all the negative stereotypes about him. I guess they are going to employ a cover 2 defense that allows the safeties to have more freedom to roam around...if so I think Leonhard would have a really nice chance at becoming the starting FS, replacing an aging Troy Vincent. Leonhard has really nice physical tools, runs a 40 in the mid 4.4s and has a good vert. He is only 5'8 and 190 lbs but he is all muscle I would imagine. He is one guy I am pulling for and I hope he makes an impact.

 

[Don Wassall]

Leonhard can dunk a basketball. He was a record setting punt returner at Wisconsin but the Bills didn't use him that way last year and he isn't even listed on their depth chart as a kick returner. But white players at "black" positions almost always have to wait and wait until they get an opportunity, and of course for most the opportunity never comes. I just hope the Bills don't stockpile talented white DBs the way the Broncos stockpiled talented white WRs for a while there. Other than Ed McCaffrey none of them ever played.

 

[Guest]

I remember seeing a special about Leonhard on ESPN saying that he won the team dunk contest while at Wisconsin. I guess I am being a little optimistic. I am not sure if the Bills are going to retain Wire though. If they did end up letting him go he would be picked up for another team pretty quickly I believe. Ever since I saw Leonhard play in college I have been pulling for the guy and hope he gets his chance.

 

[Don Wassall]

Leonhard's lack of heightis the built-in excuse that can be usedagainst him, but it would be great to see him get an opportunity.


Here's the latest from DraftDaddy on Mike Hass:


In depth look at Oregon State's Pro Day, which featured All-American receiver Mike Hass running a 4.56 40 and displaying a 36" vertical.


DD.com comment:


Wide receiver Mike Hass ran a 4.59 40 officially at the Combine, which isn't what draft freaks look for, but isn't real bad for a 6' 1", 210 pound receiver. Although his track speed may be "average" for an NFL wide receiver prospect, his game speed and play making abilities are superb.....He also has great all-around athletic ability and possesses amazing hands and a knack for being able to beat corners deep.....We think he should be picked in the latter part of round 2, at worst. Realistically, come draft day, we believe he might last into the 3rd round.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

I hope Hass ends up playing a lot somewhere. Any team that wouldn't develop him would be wasting some serious talent and throwing away a lot of excitement.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

Ethan Kilmer sounds a lot like Tom Crowder. a collegiate special teams demon who was very raw coming out of school, Crowder's vastly superior physical gifts also weren't enough to equate with regular playing time. after sticking on the COwboys' practice squad for two seasons, Crowder is now trying to make a splash in NFL Europe.

 

[Don Wassall]

The Wonderlic results are in. Of the players specifically mentioned in the article below from ESPN Insider who had a low score, all 23 are black. Of the players mentioned who had a high score, 9 are white and 4 are black. Hmm, I wonder what generalizations can be drawn?


The official scores from the Wonderlic Tests taken at the combine were released. As usual, there were some interesting results. Texas QB Vince Young did indeed take the test twice. The league has been tight-lipped regarding his first score, but the higher score of his two attempts was a 15. Young's score was bad, but not the worst of this year's quarterback class. That honor goes to Virginia Tech's Marcus Vick, who scored an 11 on the test.


A perfect score is 50, and the highest score any player posted in this year's class was a 41 (Oklahoma DT Dusty Dvoracek). The lowest score of this year's class was an eight (Syracuse DE Kader Drame, Alabama ILB Freddie Roach, Louisville DT Montavious Stanley, N.C. State TE T.J. Williams and Oklahoma DC Chijioke Onyenegecha), and the average score of all the quarterbacks was a 24.6.


The Wonderlic Personnel Test (WPT) is a short-form intelligence test that measures players' ability to think on their feet, follow directions and make effective decisions under pressure. While Young and Vick exposed their weaknesses in those areas, other quarterbacks shined. Grambling's Bruce Eugene (41), Montana State's Travis Lulay (37), USC's Matt Leinart (35) and Oregon's Kellen Clemens (35) all posted impressive scores.


Prospects at other positions who excelled include Ohio State OC Nick Mangold (35), Tulsa TE/FB Garrett Mills (35), Oregon LB Keith Ellison (36), Cal-Poly State DE Chris Gocong (36), Cornell OL Kevin Boothe (37), Virginia WR Marques Hagans (37), Stanford DT Babatunde Oshinowo (37) and Boston College OT Jeremy Trueblood (37).


Others didn't fare so well, such as Penn State DC Alan Zemaitis (9), Marshall DC Chris Hawkins (10), Miami DE Javon Nanton (10), South Carolina DS Ko Simpson (10), Central Missouri State WR Delanie Walker (10), Syracuse DE James Wyche (10), LSU WR/RS Skyler Green (11), Tennessee DB Jason Allen (11), Clemson DE Charles Bennett (11), Abilene Christian DB Danieal Manning (12), Texas Tech DS Dwayne Slay (12), South Florida RB Andre Hall (13), Pittsburgh DC Josh Lay (13), UCLA TE Marcedes Lewis (13), Mississippi State RB Jerious Norwood (13) and Tarleton State RB Derrick Ross (13).

 

[Colonel_Reb]

There are several scores that don't surprise me, namely Vince Young, Marcus Vick, Skyler Green, and Jerious Norwood. It is something to think about how much these guys get played up and then it finally comes out that they are all bricks. It bastardizes the term student-athlete to me.

 

[Guest]

LaCasse ran a 4.46 at his pro day today. His stock is rising alot. Steven Gregory a real caste victim who has played WR/S/CB for his team showing that his best interests are in the team also ran in the 4.4 range. He needs a chance and is probably the only white CB coming out this year that played in a big time conference if my memory serves me. He is versatile and can play S or CB. I hope he gets a chance.

 

[sunshine]

Ethan Kilmer a no name player from Penn State ran a 4.4 on pro day and is now being looked at as a special teams demon and back up WR.

 

[SteveB]

Vince Young ran a 4.57 sec 40 at his Pro Day. Not slow, but hardly the breakaway speed that everyone said that he had. He is about as fast as Mike Hass, who everyone says is slow.

 

[Guest]

Yea,talk about a total double standard. Everyone was saying Young ran in the 4.4s and here he comes running the same time Bruce Gradkowski ran at the combine. I hate Young and he will fail at the next level.

 

[sunshine]

4.57 is good speed but man. Consider it was on a fast track and I'll be generous. Young runs the 40 in 4.6 seconds. Will this guy make a good pro not sure. But the double standard is in effect as mentioned above. Heck walk on nobody Ethan Kilmer ran a much faster time than starting CB Alan Zemaitis. I guess this is something ole Joe Paterno kept us in the dark about because I have never heard of Kilmer. Or vaguely remember seeing him play maybe. As for Steven Gregory at Syracuse I think he injured himself a little which is why he didn't run say a 4.3 forty. Gregory is a CB by the way not a safety. Any word on BYU's Soelberg? I don't think he ran on BYU pro day. He is another CB. Certainly not a safety. Ryan Lacasse ran a 4.4 on pro day. Very fast DE. I watch a lot of Syracuse games. He is a little stiff but a good situational pass rusher at the next level.

 

[SteveB]

Soelberg ran in the mid 4.3's at his Pro Day.

 

[guest301]

Young only runs a 4.57. That's pretty pedestrian considering all the hype before hand. There are several linebackers in the league faster than that. It's pretty good speed for a qb but he's no freak like Matt Jones. How big is Soelberg?

 

[SteveB]

I predicted in another thread a few months ago that Young would run a 4.6 if he ran at the combine, so I wasn't far off. My next prediction is that Reggie Bush runs a 4.48 at his pro day. It will also be a shock to the "experts" who say he is the fastest man in college football.

 

[ocaamikedm11]

Kilmer had a big game against Florida State, including a very athletic catch, jumping over a black CB in the end zone. Never really got a chance til then, but he was impressive in that game...

 

[white lightning]

Remember the game where white cornerback Josh Golden of ASU ran down Reggie Bush.Golden didn't even get invited to the combine despite very good speed.It just depends how you look at things in this Caste World we live in.At least here we know the truth.

 

[white is right]

Bush has never made me think super fast, he has great gears and field vision. But his speed isn't near world class. He wasn't even an every down back in college. Unless he can bulk up he maybe an overrated bust in the pros...........

 

[Maple Leaf]

I have never heard of this Wonderlic test but it is easy enough to understand that a perfect score is 50 and 24 or less is a fail. I don't know who Vince Young is either but, after writing the test twice, he had a high score of 15? That can't be! Well if he can't make it as a QB he could always try out as a mud guard.

 

[SteveB]

According to the Houston Chronicle this morning, four scouts timed Vince Young in the 40. The times recorded by each scout: 4.57, 4.60, 4.60, 4.61. So the 4.57 reported on NFL.com is on the generous side.