Christophe Lemaitre "White Lightning" 9.92 and 19.80!

[elispeedster]

I have not seen a video of CL this year but last year at the "set" command his head always moved backwards. This, IMO, is incorrect; none of the other elites do this. I used to coach moving the head and shoulders forward with a heavy load on the arms. So I too am worried about his coach (also with his flailing left arm) but he was the one who got CL to 9.92 not any of us.

I agree, but Christophe got that 9.92 because he is talented. Caraz is a great technical track coach, but I dont think he is a good conditioning coach. I dont know how Christophe has progressed in the weight room, but he lacks upper body mass, particularly in his shoulders, and that shoulder power is important in the start and drive phase. It is not just legs, its the whole body that runs.

I know of a high school coach who begins the prep phase of training his runners (sprinters and distance) with wrestling drills, because wrestling develops full body power at full speed, and helps with functional strength, stability and stamina. All his runners hit their personal best in 1 year.

 

[Soccer&track]

I didn't see Vicaut on the list for the French 60m championships, anyone know why he didn't run? I would have liked to see Lemaitre race him.

 

[dr.riders]

I also wanted to see Lemaitre race against Vicaut. Athletes are different but I like them both. I agree with what Albinosprint says: "It’s the advancement in PEDs that have changed the dynamics so much that I reallyfeel bad for Lemaitre."

The only problem is mental. For Lemaitre and for us. Ok. For Lemaitre there is a very big preassure. Why? He is the change of mentality. He is a symbol. Not only a simple athlete. As I already mentioned, the problem is mental, cultural. It's a revolution. But to complete the revolution we need other athletes. Not only whites in cultural black races, but also blacks in cultural white races. In recent years we have seen white athletes compete in disciplines preserve of black athletes. But we also saw blacks who have succeeded in winning athletes in other sports, hitherto the preserve of white athletes (Tiger Woods in golf, Williams sisters in tennis etc...). Now we see different asian athletes in sports preserve of white/black athletes (Liu Xiang in 110h, different chinese players and Jeremy Lin, with chinese ancestry, in NBA, etc...).
What was the problem? A dualistic simplification of humanity : blacks and whites. Is it based on objective facts? No!
But this is a wall difficult to overcome, despite a lot of data tell us that indeed is undergoing a change.
Humanity is more differentiated. But while we are one and the same people.
What we're learning is that we can all (from anywhere in the world comes from) to do the same things, in everything. And not just in sports.
But the change of mind is not made. There are cultural issues and more. Doping. White in swimming and black in track and field sprinting. Why is there a similar dicotomy? This dichotomy is born in the USA. And most important track and field athlete before jamaicans were afroamericans: from USA. And i want to underline USA. Why?
Why the only athletes in the world who have run the 400 meters under 44 seconds are from the U.S. (different blacks and a white)? Why aren't there any athlete from Europe, Africa, Carribean, South America, Asia, Oceania? Culture.
Why in the past (before '90) the strongest european athletes in 400m where from Germay (whites)? And why in later years ('90) were British (both whites and blacks)? For me culture.
The use of doping is a system. A social problem. And part of culture, a way of thinking. It changes the perception of performances. But skin color is only a matter of perception. If you think otherwise, you will create a limit.
The people in the world are with different colours. But the strongest were from USA. Why?
For a time U.S. athletes were mostly blacks. Why? If black people would be strongest in sprinting we have the majority coming from Africa. If the selection due to the violence of slavery had made the difference, we would have had in the past strong athletes from the Caribbean, and not only from certain areas (think Cuba has not sprinters).
We have a great number of country in the world that don't express their full potential. In Asia (Mainly China and India), in Africa, in Europe, in South America.
If genetics were so important in humans, the strongest swimmers, they certainly should not be white. Why? Because you can swim all year round at the equator, while the north is a bit cold ... And so the blak people in Africa, Polinesian in Oceania, central and south Americans and south Asians, they would be the best candidates. But currently, the stronger are the whites (from USA, Europe and Russia. Australia, NZ... with a bit of Asians). Why? Swimmingpools. Why should serve a swimming pool at the equator? Besides cost much. And few communities have the money to achieve it. In Europe there were few or nothing black people, but in USA there were an apartheid. This discriminated against some people (blacks). But not without a downside. And the mass media have exported cultural paranoia of the U.S., especially in Europe, because the european are mostly whites.
Sorry if I'm hard. But we must overcome this unnecessary and harmful duality: whites blacks, blacks whites.
This is a ridiculous brake for everyone. In every sport. In any discipline, in any sport, in any work, in any field. A wall. And for me this is the revolution. For this reason Lemaitre is in the eye of the storm.
There is still a black Lemaitre in swimming. This fact spell the end of an era of just a dualism rather than competition between individuals. So white people will stop to have a sense of inferiority in certain sports towards blacks, and vice versa blacks will stop a sense of inferiority in other sports and in the study.

There are people from every part of the world. Why sum up the world in blacks and whites? Some people is mixed. Both white and black. The percentage. What does this mean?
I'm italian, but i could have some german ancestry with south italian ancestry, with a bit of arabian ancestry. But balkanian ancestry and spanish ancestry may be present. But all we come from Africa. And this is not from a long time. In the world we have always been mixed.

You just get out of paranoia and everyone in the world'll get great results. Clearly the drug system is hard to beat. I know it well. In Italy we have doped in cycling, soccer and, even in the past, in athletics (Andrei etc ...).
This is a huge burden for Lemaitre. Although he hasn't full knowledge of everything (rationally speaking).

 

[planb47]

Bravo, well said cant agree more

 

[elispeedster]

I also wanted to see Lemaitre race against Vicaut. Athletes are different but I like them both. I agree with what Albinosprint says:"It’s the advancement in PEDs that have changed the dynamics so much that I reallyfeel bad for Lemaitre."

The only problem is mental. For Lemaitre and for us. Ok. For Lemaitre there is a very big preassure. Why? He is the change of mentality. He is a symbol. Not only a simple athlete. As I already mentioned, the problem is mental, cultural. It's a revolution. But to complete the revolution we need other athletes. Not only whites in cultural black races, but also blacks in cultural white races. In recent years we have seen white athletes compete in disciplines preserve of black athletes.But we also saw blacks who have succeeded in winning athletes in other sports, hitherto the preserve of white athletes (Tiger Woods in golf, Williams sisters in tennis etc...). Now we see different asian athletes in sports preserve of white/black athletes (Liu Xiang in 110h, different chinese players and Jeremy Lin, with chinese ancestry, in NBA, etc...).
What was the problem? A dualistic simplification of humanity : blacks and whites. Is it based on objective facts? No!
But this is a wall difficult to overcome, despite a lot of data tell us that indeed is undergoing a change.
Humanity is more differentiated. But while we are one and the same people.
What we're learning is that we can all (from anywhere in the world comes from) to do the same things, in everything. And not just in sports.
But the change of mind is not made. There are cultural issues and more. Doping. White in swimming and black in track and field sprinting. Why is there a similar dicotomy? This dichotomy is born in the USA. And most important track and field athlete before jamaicans were afroamericans: from USA. And i want to underline USA. Why?
Why the only athletes in the world who have run the 400 meters under 44 seconds are from the U.S. (different blacks and a white)? Why aren't there any athlete from Europe, Africa, Carribean, South America, Asia, Oceania? Culture.
Why in the past (before '90) the strongest european athletes in 400m where from Germay (whites)? And why in later years ('90) were British (both whites and blacks)? For me culture.
The use of doping is a system. A social problem. And part of culture, a way of thinking. It changes the perception of performances. But skin color is only a matter of perception. If you think otherwise, you will create a limit.
The people in the world are with different colours. But the strongest were from USA. Why?
For a time U.S. athletes were mostly blacks. Why? If black people would be strongest in sprinting we have the majority coming from Africa. If the selection due to the violence of slavery had made the difference, we would have had in the past strong athletes from the Caribbean, and not only from certain areas (think Cuba has not sprinters).
We have a great number of country in the world that don't express their full potential. In Asia (Mainly China and India), in Africa, in Europe, in South America......

I agree with your points, but the reality is, there are differences between the races and to deny that is being close minded. Sub Saharan Blacks, on average, are slightly built differently than the average Caucasian and Asian. You can see it clearly - longer limbs, shorter trunks, higher hips...There are many Whites built this way too (but not as much s sub saahrans): Leamitre has the classic long leg, short torso build....so, with all else being equal - speed of movement, power etc...the longer limbed has a 'slight' advantage. When I say long limbed, I do not mean in height, but proportion.

You can see differences among Blacks - West African are more muscled than East Africans, and it is why you dont see many, hardly any great sprinters from Kenya, Eithiopia, and any Long Distance runners from Nigeria, etc. Whites, fall in the middle which is why I think Whites are more proportioned - not the fastest, not the slowest, a good mix of stamina and strength, and i also think this is a reason why there are more Whites in elite military forces that require a good combo of stamina, speed and strength (sorry to throw off the subject)...

Lemaitre's average 60 times this year is due to conditoing; His coach does not uses modern techniques as far as I am concerned. And it has nothing to due with PED's. I managed to bench press 350 and squat 475 in my younger days all from hard work and good training. Lemaitre is capable of naturally running 6.45, 9.80. 19.5 if he had the right conditioning. His bad start of a sprint is lack of power and strength, not due to his height. Olympic weightlifters have almost equal 10-20 meter dash time as elite sprinters because the 1st 10-20 meters is more power/speed (think of the force generated that a plane uses at take off, even though the take off is slowest of the the actual flight).
Lemaitre does not have this power because he is not conditioned correctly. You can see the lack of this power around his weak appearing shoulders, upper back, and hip flexors. This is my opinion.

 

[waterbed]

correct whites are sometimes build with relatively small calves, and long legs and with 5%,6% bodyfat.
But becuase the best power to weight ratio guy does not have best calves , bodyfat leg ratio it could be that the fastest black could be having 0.8 thin calves*0.8 6% bodyfat*0.8 long leg to height ratio) .
it coule be that the 2nd best power to weight ratio black has the typical( realtively to weight)most seen in negro features when it is 0.2*0.2*0.2 if you would see the 125th most power to weight ratio white guy have this features.
I don't exactly know all the best feautures for sprinting I just mean because some features are more often found in west africans and nobody have everything the best more blacks have or are close to having it all, if you see it as a weightingscall.

I think becuae lemaitre has thin calves and maybe under average technique? he as also a typical realtively slow 60 meters( 60 meters is 2% differnce 100 meter 4% BLACK -WHITE) and his 60 meter is well over 65% and close to 66% of his 100 meter time when it is for average white spinter 0.648% I believe.Whites have often great decelration pace but becuase the strength of most whites is relatively the strart and end pace is mos related to top speed and decelration is for all spirnters just a few % the gap widens FROM 60 TO 100 %, but you see the % differnce in 200 meters is already smaller then 100 meters becuase in 200 meters decelration becomes much more a factor.It is not rare for a spirnter with higher top speed to be slower then a guy with lower top speed at 150 meters or so.when the differnce in 100 meter race top speed is more then a few % you close to never have a faster deceleration pace 70-100 meters if the other guy is healthy and was the guy with higher top speed.The bigger the start differnce DISADVANTAGE for the faster top speed guy and also the smaller the stop speed differnce the longer it takes to get surpass him.

 

[trackster]

To get the discussion back to LeMaitre specifically, I think Christophe is simply a naturally lean sprinter, who flies along at the top end. I don't think he is a power sprinter, blasting his way down the track. If he adds bulk, he may add power at the start, but he'll lose his float at the end.

 

[albinosprint]

To get the discussion back to LeMaitre specifically, I think Christophe is simply a naturally lean sprinter, who flies along at the top end. I don't think he is a power sprinter, blasting his way down the track. If he adds bulk, he may add power at the start, but he'll lose his float at the end.

I agree

 

[Bk21]

@Dr.riders

yes all humanity spread from Africa, this is a fact. but groups spreaded in "gene pools" which are genetic islands which permits accelerated differenciation by natural selection , e.g surviving in the heat needs another type of body (or skin color) than surviving in cold areas , natural selection changes the shape of the gene pool to fit the environment in which they live. for track and field, if sprinting is beneficial for survival, the gene pool will migrate toward sprinting abilities, if you have to walk through moutains and valleys to find food or shelter, the gene pool will shift toward long-distance resistant individuals.. so having differences between races isn't scientifically silly. I always point out the fact that saying that this is or that race is "faster" in sprinting is'nt in any case synonym of any kind of racial superiority! Bolt would've probably died few thousands years ago if he was born in a desertic place where he had to walk all day long..

what changes in our time, is with all sort of transport means, airplanes trains boats etc.. the notion of "gene pool" is no longer available, everybody can be anywhere, anytime. and in the same vein, "anybody" can sprint anywhere anytime , and what I mean with "anybody" is, there is no population in the civilised world right now who "naturally eliminates" this or that individual for his running abilities, we can earn our food by sitting on chairs all day long, so sprinters, mid distance, long distance runners are in all population, and this will be more and more true generation after generation.

 

[elispeedster]

To get the discussion back to LeMaitre specifically, I think Christophe is simply a naturally lean sprinter, who flies along at the top end. I don't think he is a power sprinter, blasting his way down the track. If he adds bulk, he may add power at the start, but he'll lose his float at the end.

Totally not true. 5-10 pounds of solid muscle with a higher level of strength to bodyweight ratio will make him faster not only at the start , but will give him a kick in the middle and the last part of the race. I've seen this with many athletes and myself.

Since we are talking about weight training and muscle development, the subject of PED's will come up, so, in relation to PED's: PED'S do not make anyone faster; it makes them stronger. That strength trasnlate to speed when trained correctly.

Someone who has high level of natural speed like Lemaitre can benefit much more than the slower guy with natural strength training. Its the average sprinter who constantly runs same times throughout their career then comes out of nowhere and runs super fast times after 1 year of training that make it suspicious (like certain runners form a small Caribbean island).

 

[waterbed]

there are people who can when they run push when running a lot of Newton with very high power to weight ratio but not when bench pressing.It's the question which excersize will make you be able to make more force but without lowering to point of gravity to much.becuase the lower your gravity center the more explosive high Newton to weight ratio you need becuase you will be faster to the ground, smaller stride and the pushing takes on average 45% of your spritning time.

 

[albinosprint]

Totally not true. 5-10 pounds of solid muscle with a higher level of strength to bodyweight ratio will make him faster not only at the start , but will give him a kick in the middle and the last part of the race. I've seen this with many athletes and myself.

Since we are talking about weight training and muscle development, the subject of PED's will come up, so, in relation to PED's: PED'S do not make anyone faster; it makes them stronger. That strength trasnlate to speed when trained correctly.

Someone who has high level of natural speed like Lemaitre can benefit much more than the slower guy with natural strength training. Its the average sprinter who constantly runs same times throughout their career then comes out of nowhere and runs super fast times after 1 year of training that make it suspicious (like certain runners form a small Caribbean island).

I disagree with the statement of muscle. Ican speak from experience that 10lbs of muscle help me tremendously in my startand drive, but took away from my maintenance of speed. as for PEDs, they helpyou train at a level you could never achieve normally. maybe with some PED's Icould have trained more to negate the effect of extra muscle had on the end ofmy race. if we look at the tall sprinters of old, and Carl Lewis is one thatcomes to mind, they rarely ran indoors and always had a bad drive phase with unbelievabletop end and maintenance. it wasn't till Powell and Bolt came along that we saw6'+ sprinters running 6.4 60m. for Lemaitre it’s more important he has a goodreaction to the gun. there's no reason with his 6.55 60 time he couldn't run9.85-9.
Carl Lewis ran 9.86 w/ a 6.46 60 split w/ 1.2 m/s wind. is there info for Lemaitre split when he ran his PB?

 

[waterbed]

maybe it was the stretched tendons that make you faster from the weight training.

 

[elispeedster]

I disagree with the statement of muscle. Ican speak from experience that 10lbs of muscle help me tremendously in my startand drive, but took away from my maintenance of speed. as for PEDs, they helpyou train at a level you could never achieve normally. maybe with some PED's Icould have trained more to negate the effect of extra muscle had on the end ofmy race. if we look at the tall sprinters of old, and Carl Lewis is one thatcomes to mind, they rarely ran indoors and always had a bad drive phase with unbelievabletop end and maintenance. it wasn't till Powell and Bolt came along that we saw6'+ sprinters running 6.4 60m. for Lemaitre it’s more important he has a goodreaction to the gun. there's no reason with his 6.55 60 time he couldn't run9.85-9.
Carl Lewis ran 9.86 w/ a 6.46 60 split w/ 1.2 m/s wind. is there info for Lemaitre split when he ran his PB?

I dont know you or how you trained but I can tell you that I got much faster when I got bigger and my strength to bodyweight ratio increased, along with decreased body fat.

I have never seen anyone slow down with a additional healthy 10 lbs of muscle if trained correctly. It does not come overnight and it has to be probably monitored. As for Lemaitre, some moderate added muscle in his torso will help him, I am sure of it.

Last year when he went through an intense training in florida, he came into the indoor season fatigued, but managed to match his PR at the championships..then he went on to run 9.92 and 19.80

At this young age, he needs intense training, even if it slows him down temporarily; the body will adapt to it and then his times will go through the roof with less effort. You need to shock the body, then back off.

If Lemaitre doesn't do a drastic change in his conditioning, he wont match any of his PR's, let alone medal in the Olympics. I hope I am proven wrong, because I have never been excited for an Athlete like Christophe Lemaitre.

 

[white is right]

I disagree with the statement of muscle. Ican speak from experience that 10lbs of muscle help me tremendously in my startand drive, but took away from my maintenance of speed. as for PEDs, they helpyou train at a level you could never achieve normally. maybe with some PED's Icould have trained more to negate the effect of extra muscle had on the end ofmy race. if we look at the tall sprinters of old, and Carl Lewis is one thatcomes to mind, they rarely ran indoors and always had a bad drive phase with unbelievabletop end and maintenance. it wasn't till Powell and Bolt came along that we saw6'+ sprinters running 6.4 60m. for Lemaitre it’s more important he has a goodreaction to the gun. there's no reason with his 6.55 60 time he couldn't run9.85-9.
Carl Lewis ran 9.86 w/ a 6.46 60 split w/ 1.2 m/s wind. is there info for Lemaitre split when he ran his PB?

Sir how tall are you and what was your build before you took up weight training. Ten pounds on a short athlete isn't the same as ten on a tall one. I think he could easily gain 10 and not effect in the 100 in the 200 it may him down though.

 

[waterbed]

I dont know you or how you trained but I can tell you that I got much faster when I got bigger and my strength to bodyweight ratio increased, along with decreased body fat.

I have never seen anyone slow down with a additional healthy 10 lbs of muscle if trained correctly. It does not come overnight and it has to be probably monitored. As for Lemaitre, some moderate added muscle in his torso will help him, I am sure of it.

Last year when he went through an intense training in florida, he came into the indoor season fatigued, but managed to match his PR at the championships..then he went on to run 9.92 and 19.80

At this young age, he needs intense training, even if it slows him down temporarily; the body will adapt to it and then his times will go through the roof with less effort. You need to shock the body, then back off.

If Lemaitre doesn't do a drastic change in his conditioning, he wont match any of his PR's, let alone medal in the Olympics. I hope I am proven wrong, because I have never been excited for an Athlete like Christophe Lemaitre.

yes but that his pb was runned 2011 was faster then 2010 was also a bit luck.
His semi final in 2011 10.06 -1.6 would be like 9.85 with 2.0 wind

 

[White Lightning]

I read an article today about what his coach thinks about the situation. His coach says that he is not worried as the difference between his 6.55 last year and this seasons 6.57 is only 8 inches. He went on to say that Christophe has added some additonal weight and muscle and that he probably hasn't adjusted yet to weighing a little more this year. The assistant coach said as that Christophe also had his best races outdoors when he raced the slowest over 60 meters. So at least we have their take on this. I'm not too worried but I would have been much more excited if he couldn't have dropped his p.b. down lower indoors like we expected. I guess time will tell. The summer season will be here before we know it.

 

[jacknyc]

Christophe's feelings about his race are mixed - he's not sure why he is slower indoors, but still expects to be faster outdoors.

"The World bronze medallist at 200m lined up in 60m races this winter in order to work on his start, a part of the race which is not fixed yet, according to his own words. “I can’t explain why, but I can’t transfer in races what I did at training.â€￾ It only was in the last meters at Lemaitre took the advantage over the former long jumper Emmanuel Biron to won his third title in a row in 6.59, by a mere 0.01 margin. “I’m not as fast than last year at the same period (when he ran 6.55), but I know all the training done will be useful later.â€￾

 

[albinosprint]

Sir how tall are you and what was your build before you took up weight training. Ten pounds on a short athlete isn't the same as ten on a tall one. I think he could easily gain 10 and not effect in the 100 in the 200 it may him down though.

I'm 6' even. I started off at 175lbs running 6.55 in the 55m & 10.71 in the 100m. at 185lbs I lowered my 55 down to 6.30 and my 100m to 10.53. I admit my start and driver phase was 100% better, but I never felt like I really opened it up in that 60-80 and my last 20 I had a real hard time holding on. I felt like I changed my whole style. maybe if I kept with running it would have been different. Iwas taking 18 credits a semester and working about 30-35 hours a week in construction so by the time I got to training I was shot. I'll tell you this, some PED's really would have made the difference its funny, because being white I was constantly accused on doing steroids. Meanwhile if you looked at me you would have thought I was 160lbs soaking wet.

To get back to Lemaitre, I’m not worried. He’s young and still has allot of growth to do all over. That’s what I love about this kid, he’s still very raw. I would love to see him get really consistentwith his start with a excellent reaction time. Think of it this way, I good start reaction can shave a few .05 off his 100m time. he is constantly in the .170-.180 and if he can gets it down to a .130-.140 that’s .04-.05 off his time. That would bring him into the 9.8s.

 

[Bk21]

Trell Kimmons just did 6.45, the 5th all time performance.. his PB is 9.95 2 years ago, and did a semi-final in Daegu last year.. He was touched by God this year and will do a sub 9.9 this year for sure..

 

[White Lightning]

Yeah. Can you smell what Kimmons and Gatlin are cooking? Lol. Usually where there is smoke, there is fire. The times are unbelievable. What a joke as the athletes are always one step ahead of the testers.

 

[ZELLGADISS]

albinosprint you are wrong.
The last year Lemaitre got very good reaction times:

9.96 +0.9 CRISTOPHE LEMAITRE MONTREUIL 2011 0.143

9.95 +1.0 CRISTOPHE LEMAITRE STOCKHOLM 2011 0.143

9.95 +1.0 CRISTOPHE LEMAITRE LAUSANNE 2011 0.151

9.92 +2.0 CRISTOPHE LEMAITRE ALBI 2011 0.163


So he can to be consistent around 0.140, it would be great.
In his 9.92 he had very normal reaction time but he got very big wind, maximum legal, so he was lucky.

 

[ZELLGADISS]

With "normal" wind, +1.0, Lemaitre "only" got 9.95.
So in my opinion he has very hard get sub 9.9 this year.
A time around 9.93 +1.0 i see it possible :smiley:

 

[greyghost]

indoors

dont forget guys , sometimes as yee know , psychology plays a part in performances . athletes weigh things up and their perceived level of importance, i think deep down many athletes that achieve outdoors like CL, know that indoors is a lot less important than outdoors and the fact that his training is completely focused on the outdoor season , and his mind and body will be ready for the outdoor season . also on a tangent any of u guys have an opinion on the "speedendurance" website and the information in it??

 

[albinosprint]

albinosprint you are wrong.
The last year Lemaitre got very good reaction times:

I stand corrected. I was actually trying to find his reaction time, but was only finding them for the races he didn't run sub 10. regardless, he will do fine outdoors. Olympic year, he will pushed to a new PB. does anyone know how many indoor meets he ran last year?