Barry Bonds

white lightning

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 16, 2004
Messages
21,492
Here is another article with proof of what we already
khttp://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/10 /30/MNGQA9JAAK1.DTL
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2004
Messages
363
I may come off terrible to some, but I sometimes find myself hoping Barry vapor locks, in the batter's box, right on National TV - all due to the ingestion of too many 'roids, and too much HGH.
 
G

Guest

Guest
it's so obvious he's doping, how stupid do they think we are....don't answer
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,565
Location
Pennsylvania
Here's a worshipful article on Bonds by one Mark Kreidler of the Sacramento Bee -- "Bonds' Greatness Trumps Suspicions":

http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/columns/kreidler/story/ 11326120p-12240789c.html

He writes at one point: "The aura around Bonds has reached epic proportions, brilliant enough at times to obscure the questions surrounding his run to baseball immortality. . ." blah, blah, blah.

How much you wanna bet that this same Mark Kreidler would resolutely state the the "questions surrounding Pete Rose's run to baseball immortality" are such that he should remain permanently barred from baseball and kept out of the Hall of Fame?
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,565
Location
Pennsylvania
If you can get ahold of the Dec. 13 issue of Sports Illustrated, read Rick Reilly's piece on the back page about Bonds. Reilly is an award winning writer who is the usual politically correct media pundit -- except when it comes to Barry Bonds. Based in San Fran, he has apparently been dissed by Bonds on more than a few occasions and likes to rip into him. This particular one is about what an obvious liar and phony Bonds has been, under oath and otherwise, in making denials about steroid use.
 

jaxvid

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Messages
7,247
Location
Michigan
Reilly is another big-time PC reporter. He's usually full of it, however you are right---he does give Bonds hell, and actually Sosa too, about steroids. He'll back off when push comes to shove though.
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,565
Location
Pennsylvania
The sports section of the local rag has an interview with former MLB commissioner Fay Vincent (originally distributed by Treasure Coast Newspapers). Here's an interesting exchange:

Q. There's been a lot of talk since the Bonds testimony leaked out about putting an asterisk next to his records. Do you think that is something that should be considered?

Vincent: I think Henry Aaron said it well when he said he hasn't seen any evidence that seroids makes you hit a fastball or a curve.

What b.s.! Then I guess Vincent wouldn't be opposed to ballplayers using any drug or illegal substance, provided there's no "evidence" that it helps in the hitting of a fastball or curveball.

One wonders if there would be such much magnaminity towards Bonds from Aaron were Barry white (rather than just his Swedish first wife, who claimed he beat her). I was shocked when reading an SI article about Aaron five or so years ago to find that he spends a good deal of time up in his attic, reading and re-reading the negative mail he received when he was pursuing Babe Ruth's career home run mark.

I was a teenager and a baseball fan at that time, and remember that Aaron was treated with nothing but respect by the media, and by fans both in Atlanta and on the road. For him to focus on anonymous racist letters instead of feeling good about the glory and recognition that was bestowed upon him by an overwhelmingly white fan base and media when he broke the mark of a white athletic icon is very telling indeed. Do you think Hank would be as unfazed if the steroid-head chasing down his record wasn't a "brother"?
 

jaxvid

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Messages
7,247
Location
Michigan
Yeah, Aaron's a kinda sad story. As I hear it he is awash with guilt that he didn't use his popularity to futher the civil rights movement. Hank was just a ballplayer. He liked to play, kept clean, and set records. But now he is kind of a spokeman for black special interests and aware of what a pain in the butt he could've been had he acted like so many other angry black superstars. So he's upset. You should read his recent autobiography, every insult he ever received is recounted. The guy is as bitter as they come. In case he's reading this....hey Hank, everybody liked you, you were a good kid...don't spoil it all by being a grumpy old man!
 

IceSpeed

Guru
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Messages
250
Location
Maine
I don't think Henry Aaron really cares too much about Bonds cheating to
try to break his career home run record. Hank has said that he
cares about the contribution he made to his team more than the home-run
record. He uses the total-bases record to show his contribution
to his team. Hank knows that Bonds will never match his
commitment to his team, and Aaron knows Bonds will never have his
refusal to lose.



That is why Aaron does not care about Bonds. He probably reads the Hate
mail because it contained death threats. Death threats can have a
huge impact on one's outlook on life, I imagine.
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,565
Location
Pennsylvania
Here's an interesting article on Bonds, who just underwent his second surgery since the end of the '04 season and could be nearing a rapid decline. Here's a portion:

"If the word, "steroids" just involuntarily made its way to the tip of your tongue, join the crowd.

"It has not been proven conclusively that Bonds has used steroids, though he was called to testify before the BALCO grand jury 15 months ago. But last December, portions of Bonds' testimony were reportedly leaked to the San Francisco Chronicle; those transcripts quoted Bonds as admitting to using cream- and clear-like substances, but denying, far-fetchedly, that he knew they were steroids.

"That's a tough sell. Among the people not buying is Bonds' former Giants teammate Jeff Brantley, now an ESPN analyst, who told the Chronicle that he suspected Bonds began using steroids during his rehab from knee surgery after the 1999 season.

"Bonds, then 35, had averaged 31.8 home runs over 14 seasons to that point in his career. He has averaged 51.6 in the five seasons since.

"If you're in the Brantley camp, that would lead you to two ways of characterizing Bonds' current physical state, neither of them particularly encouraging to those in the Bonds camp. One, Bonds is now reaping the risks of steroid use, which builds supersized muscles that joints (such as knees) cannot support. Prognosis: Our Man Barry may want to consider applying for a Frequent 'Scopee Card.

"Or two, Bonds is weaning himself off the juice in response to Major League Baseball's upgraded steroids testing policy. This means no more visits to the flaxseed oil salesman to forestall the ravaging effects of time. Prognosis: See above.

"Even if you're squarely in the Bonds camp, this is worrisome news. It's one thing to deal with ailments that you know are there at the end of a grueling season. It's another to have them popping up as you're packing for spring training.

"This doesn't mean Bonds is officially on the long, sad road to mortality. But it could mean that his health and well-being is moving up the list of challenges to his pursuit of baseball's all-time home run record. His knees, it would appear, now rank below the intentional walk, but above bad poultry in the clubhouse chimichangas."

The entire article can be found here: http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/sports/columnist s/gary_peterson/10794661.htm
 

jaxvid

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Messages
7,247
Location
Michigan
Just read the latest Bonds steroid story on the front page of the website. Makes you wonder what kind of an idiot that guy is. He has this woman with intimate details about his life and he only offers her $20,000 to keep quiet. Guy has made hundreds of millions in his life and he won't pony up to shut up an ex-mistress. What the hell though, everybody believes he used steroids he is just counting on the weak whites that run the media and baseball to give him a pass. He'll probably get it too.
 

jaxvid

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Messages
7,247
Location
Michigan
Yeah nice article. Problem is Barry don't think like that. He comes from a completely different mind set. My prediction: Barry sticks aroung long enough to pass Ruth by a few homers, doesn't speak to the press, doesn't care that everyone thinks he is a cheater then he retires because of injuries. The only time you hear from him again is when he beats up whatever poor woman happens to be with him. Aaron, Bonds, Ruth, in the record books forever.
 

JD074

Master
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
2,301
Location
Kentucky
"Bonds, then 35, had averaged 31.8 home runs over 14
seasons to that point in his career. He has averaged 51.6 in
the five seasons since.


According to the baseball statisticians, On Base Percentage
and Slugging Percentage are the most important offensive
stats. So let's take a look:

Pre-2000
OBP .407
SLG .561

2000-2004
OBP .535
SLG .782

Yup.
 

Bart

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
4,329
Do you realize Bonds has defied the aging process? From his mid to upper thirties and into his forties he has CLEAR ly performed far far better than he did as a younger player. I want some of those vitamins, nutrients and - arthritis cremes?- from Balco.
 

jaxvid

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Messages
7,247
Location
Michigan
Perhaps you read the JB Cash article "Ruth-less" Both Bonds and Ruth hit 49 homers at the same age, Ruth hit less and less every year till he retired, typical for any player. Bonds has increased his output since then. You are right Bart, I want some of that flaxseed oil he was using.
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,565
Location
Pennsylvania
Jason Whitlock is a black sports writer for The Kansas City Star. Caste Football linked to a column of his in the aftermath of the Pacers-Pistons-fans brawl which contained several very good observations about the need for black basketball players to conform a little more to societal norms. However, Whitlock must have been having a rare lucid day when he wrote that if this article is any indication -- "Bonds is at Center of Witch Hunt."


This one contains strong doses of paranoia about racist conspiracies, i.e. if Bonds weren't black and about to pass Ruth, steroids wouldn't be an issue. The media's after Bonds because he's black. All records pre-Jackie Robinson are meaningless. Andof course hehas to besmirch Roger Clemens, Mark McGwire, and even Cal Ripken in the course of his childish rant.


Whitlock doesn't care, or is incapable of realizing, that despite hisdespicable personality Bonds receives more media coverage than Clemens, Randy Johnson and Greg Maddux combined. If old records are meaningless because white hitters didn't face black pitchers, then current ones should be as well because a black American pitcher in the majors is about as common as a white running back in the NFL. In short, it's the same kind of pseudo-victim nonsense that blacks routinely spout and get away with -- in fact are rewarded for, as Whitlock's piece is appearing in various newspapers around the U.S.:


http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/columnists/j ason_whitlock/11002601.htm?1c


by Jason Whitlock
spacer.gif

I'm going to defend Barry Bonds. A lot of what he said last week during a grueling press conference was accurate.


While I'm at it, I'm going to defend Jose Canseco, too. The implied accusation in his controversial book that Major League Baseball was silently complicit while the players juiced up and home-run balls rocketed has a definite ring of truth.


The steroid witch hunt being conducted by the media is a total farce, a convenient excuse to discredit the accomplishments of a man, Barry Bonds, the media have never liked or respected.


Bonds has every right to be combative with the media. We're in no way being fair to the greatest hitter in baseball history.


"You cannot rehash the past," Bonds said last week. "If that's the case, we're going to go way back into the 19th, 18th centuries in rehashing the past, and we'll crush a lot of things in a lot of sports if that's what you choose. ... We can go back into the 1800s and basically asterisk a lot of sports. ...


"We need to go forward, move forward, let it go. Y'all stop watching Redd Foxx in rerun shows, and let's go ahead and let the program work and allow us to do our job."


It seems no one wants to deal with what Bonds is saying, but he's right. Baseball had a lax policy on performance-enhancing drugs for years. The majors didn't test. And as Canseco suggests in his book, George W. Bush and all the other owners really weren't all that interested in testing. Baseball wanted to rebound from the 1994-95 work stoppage, and everyone involved in the game was tickled that bigger hitters were hitting more home runs.


You can't redo the past. You can only learn from it and pledge not to repeat it.


Before 1947, major-league baseball banned black men from participating. This is an unquestioned fact about the modern era of baseball. And we also know that it was at least another 25 years after Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier before the majors were truly integrated.


But no one wants to put an asterisk next to Babe Ruth's or Ty Cobb's accomplishments. They competed in an inferior brand of major-league baseball. In the chase for stats, Ruth had a competitive advantage.


Segregation was a mistake that damaged the game of baseball. The lack of a strong drug-testing policy was a mistake and damaged the credibility of the majors.


"Every time there has been an incident, it has been corrected," Bonds said, "and now that it's being corrected, I think we need to go forward. ... Allow the drug-testing program to work. Allow it to work. I truly believe we need to go forward."


Did Bonds use performance-enhancing drugs when the majors had no rules against them? I don't know. I suspect he did. Heck, I suspect Cal Ripken had a little help playing all those games in a row. I suspect Mark McGwire had a lot of help while hitting all those home runs. I suspect Sammy Sosa and Brady Anderson and Roger Clemens and just about everyone playing professional sports gets a little help the media would deem unethical. There's too much financial incentive not to push the envelope.


But the timing of the steroid witch hunt in baseball is curious at best. Where was President Bush's steroid outrage when he was making money as the general managing partner of the Texas Rangers? It's easy to gain political capital speaking out against steroids now, when Bonds is closing in on Ruth and Hank Aaron.


If Bonds had 450 home runs, no one would be talking about steroids and major-league baseball. It would be a total non-issue, the same way it's a non-issue in the NFL, the NBA and the NHL. There would be rumblings and speculation and an occasional story about the BALCO investigation. But there would be no full-blown controversy.


And if that's the case, what does that say about the motives of the media members and organizations focusing so much attention on steroids?


The time and energy devoted to the story aren't about doing what's right. It's about ratings and sales and journalism awards. There's nothing wrong with that being the motive. It's just that Bonds wants reporters to come down off their high horses and deal with this issue realistically.


Barry Bonds isn't evil. He's not even a cheater. He did what was commonplace in baseball at the time. He's no different from Ruth or Aaron.Edited by: Don Wassall
 

IceSpeed

Guru
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Messages
250
Location
Maine
Barry Bonds is falling into a Sosa-like
disgrace. When will he play with some integrity, get clean, and
become an honest ballplayer.

Watch for pitchers to pitch to him this season and
watch Bonds hit many towering pop-ups. Without steroids, his
mechanics will be all out of wack(it happened with McGuire) and he will
swing late and fail to drive the ball. Bonds was able to hit
homeruns late into his stance(Tony Gwynn's sole weakness) because of
steroids. Now his body has stopped naturally producing
testosterone making him weaker without steroids.

Bonds will not be able to hit to left field as hard as he used to.
 

Bart

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
4,329
Hey Don, Whitlock tries his best to absolve Bonds of anyblame regarding his sullied reputation. All this fuss because Bonds is about to break another home run record. Oh, poor Barry, it must be so hard being a black baseball player making millions upon millions. He lives like a king but so what. Can you imagine the torture of signing autographs, faking smiles and waving to adoring (mostly white) fans? Of course he's obnoxious, surly, arrogant and ill- tempered, who wouldn't be for goodness sake?


The writer claims Ruth played in an era when inferior baseball was played because of the color barrier. He implies Ruth and Cobb could have asterisks next to their accomplishments. Actually, since the inclusion of blacks in baseball they have produced very few good pitchers. I would think if the Babe faced a preponderance of them he could have hit 1,200 homers and averaged .400. Most good pitchers of color seem to be hispanic, if that is the right word.


Defensively speaking, for every Willie Mays to be found there is a far greater number of butcherssuch as Reggie Jackson and Sammi Sosa. By the way, Jackie Robinson then should also have an asteriskbeside his name as MOST of his opponents were inferior white players !!


When Mark Mcguire (sp?) was in the home run race a local talk show host in may area ranted against him almost daily because he admitted taking creatine and andro. If Mac was implicated with the Balco crowd he would have been hung out to dry by the media in my town.
 

JD074

Master
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
2,301
Location
Kentucky
The only argument that can be made of the pre-Jackie
Robinson era is that if there were black hitters, a few
could've done really well. But that's completely theoretical, for
no one really knows for sure if one of them could've matched
Ruth's overwhelming dominance. Maybe, maybe not.
 

surfsider

Guru
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Messages
400
Location
Missouri
I saw Whitlock's column. Though not a subscriber to his paper I've read his columns occasionally and was quite surprised by the wrong-headedness of this one. Bonds is a creepy prima donna and even in this era of sycophantic sportswriters toadying up to their black demi-gods his repugnant personality has been acknowledged. But given that, he has still been given an easy time of it concerning steroids. Whitlock says Bonds didn't cheat, yeah, and Clinton didn't inhale.

Silly semantics aside, ethically Bonds and any steroid user was cheating and they knew it. Their inabilty to own up to their steroid use betrays their guilty consciences. That aside, to call the investigation into steroid use a "witch hunt" is laughable. For the most part, the only players that are being targeted are the ones with a Balco connection, which Bonds has in spades. (No pun intended.)

For me the most offensive part of this would be apologia is the assertion that pre-1947 major league baseball was "inferior". At that time baseball was far and away the pre-eminent professional sport. It certainly attracted the best athletes and play was fundamentally sound. It is maddening to think that so many sports fans unthinkingly nod in agreement when they run across such an assertion. The misconceptions, falsehoods and
outright lies that castefootball is up against are so ingrained that I despair of being able to make much headway. There is consolation in knowing that there are others that aren't held in thrall to the prevailing attitudes and at least we can commiserate with each other.
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,565
Location
Pennsylvania
Even though I live 2,500 miles from San Francisco, the local papers here run an item on Barry Bonds almost every day in the sports section. Barry takes batting practice. Barry may be a DH in home games. Barry breaks wind. Barry this, Barry that.


But nary a word about Bonds not being subpoened to talk to the congressional committee about steroids. How can you have a governmental investigation into steroid use in baseball and not include Barry Bonds??? And of course the media is complicit by its silence. It doesn't need to be said on this site but I'll say it anyway. Were the slugger zeroing in on Ruth and Aaron's marks white and an obvious steroid user who was prominently involved in the BALCO investigation, he would be the first one brought in to testify, and the media would be screaming in anguish non-stop if he wasn't.
 

Colonel_Reb

Hall of Famer
Joined
Jan 9, 2005
Messages
13,987
Location
The Deep South
Right again Don. Race makes all the difference in the world these days. Curiously silent about Bonds the media is.
 

Kaptain

Master
Joined
Nov 25, 2004
Messages
3,384
Location
Minnesota
I think the powers that be are looking for a politically correct (white) sacrificial lamb when it comes to the steroid debacle. They went after Giambi but he doesn't seem to be a big enough star to off-set the focus on Bonds. Now they seem focused on Mark Maguire, a guy who has been out of baseball for years. It doesn't make any sense that Bonds is being let off the hook but it is hardly a surprise.
 

Colonel_Reb

Hall of Famer
Joined
Jan 9, 2005
Messages
13,987
Location
The Deep South
Sad but true! Bonds has benefitted more from the roids than anyone, and he gets let off because of his skin tone.
 
Top