Barry Bonds

[jaxvid]

I think Bonds will go into the baseball HOF on the grounds that he was HOF caliber before using steriods.

This. It's correct and what will happen.

 

[Carolina Speed]

Ok, maybe this was covered years ago, jaxvid, and I know McGwire probably used, but why was it inconceivable that he could hit 70 HR's without roids, he has the alltime rookie record for HR'S 49, correct? He accomplished that feat in only his first full year in the major leagues. At 23 your body is not fully grown and its easy to put on 30-40 pounds and get stronger naturally, so wouldn't it be possible? I think people tend to forget McGwire had the ability to hit alot of HR'S early in his career and while he was very thin and not nearly as strong.
Not exactly on subject, butI think it's an interesting question, being that BB never hitover 39-40 until he started using and his head grew 2-3 sizes!

 

[Don Wassall]

I agree that Bonds will get in, and likely the first time he is eligible. It will be interesting to see what kind of support Sosa draws vs. the paltry votes McGwire has received. As Carolina Speed mentioned, McGwire was an elite home run hitter long before he took steroids. Sosa was skinny with little power (much like Rafael Palmiero) before juicing, but of course Sammy was blessed with "charisma" and a "room brightening smile," unlike McGwire.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Might have known that Bonds would beat the rap.

He'll probably get in the HOF, but none of those cheats deserve it, imho.

 

[sport historian]

Sport Historian,do you have any idea when Bonds started taking PEDs? If so, are those numbers / stats prior HOF worthy? I don't think so.

No, the dirty four and others should be banned forever, as not to tarnish America's past time. McGuire is the most pathetic, testifying before congress and crying like a little b**ch. And telling all who would listen he was not taking PEDs.

I clearly remember that season he and Manny "blue eyes" Sosa were battling to to break Ruth's record. McGuire breaks it, I was so happy only to find out later he was like Bonds or Bonds like him. F**K!

The evidence indicates Bonds didn't start taking PEDs until after McGwire broke the seasonal HR record. Bonds was around 35 and was considered a HOF caliber player. Supposedly, this wasn't enough and he resented the adulation McGwire was receiving.

Bonds was fairly slim well in his thirties.

 

[bigunreal]

If taking steroids is an automatic disqualifier for the HOF, then how can any of you support the induction of the odious Bonds? Why isn't Clemens still going to get in, since he clearly was a HOF caliber pitcher long before he started taking them (if he took them)? If steroid use is in and of itself the ultimate offense, then what difference does it make how any player taking them performed during any other part of his career?

This situation is akin to that of Pete Rose. I have long maintained that if a black player set the records he did, and had the identical gambling issues, he would still have been elected to the HOF immediately. I'm certain that Bonds will be inducted the first go round as well. If there is any indication he won't be, the black "community" will rally passionately to his support, as they invariably do when a high profile black is in jeopardy of facing the same standards all whites must abide by.

If Bonds goes in, you have to put Clemens and McGwire in. If not, then the HOF voters are as impartial as the idiotic jury that wouldn't vote Bonds guilty on three of the four charges against him.

 

[whiteathlete33]

I'm still baffled by the fact that Greg Anderson, his trainer, is refusing to talk and spent some time in jail for him. Would Bonds do the same for him? The answer is obvious.

Sorry to ask this question but I don't follow baseball much. From everything I've heard McGwire was only accused of taking androstene. Am I correct? Androstene was legal a while back and you could buy it in GNC. I know it was a banned substance in MLB but wasn't what he took perfectly legal??

 

[jaxvid]

I'm still baffled by the fact that Greg Anderson, his trainer, is refusing to talk and spent some time in jail for him.  Would Bonds do the same for him?  The answer is obvious.Sorry to ask this question but I don't follow baseball much. From everything I've heard McGwire was only accused of taking androstene.  Am I correct? Androstene was legal  a while back and you could buy it in GNC.  I know it was a banned substance in MLB but wasn't what he took perfectly legal??

Mark McGwire was never "accused" of taking anything. There were lots of rumors, and he was using androstene (when it was not banned) and when he testified in front of Congress and was asked if he had ever taken PED's he claimed his 5th amendment right not to incriminate himself.

Since then he has admitted to using PED's. He was probably a fairly aggressive user as he probably picked it up with Jose Canseco at the start of the steroid era.

I think McGwire would have been a Hall of Fame quality player without steroids but how would you know? He surely had some pretty good years while juicing.

He wont get into the Hall for many years. I think eventually there will be "legal" drugs used by athletes to increase performance which will make it seem hypocritical to keep out the steroid era guys and perhaps then they will let the white guys in.

 

[jaxvid]

If taking steroids is an automatic disqualifier for the HOF, then how can any of you support the induction of the odious Bonds? Why isn't Clemens still going to get in, since he clearly was a HOF caliber pitcher long before he started taking them (if he took them)? If steroid use is in and of itself the ultimate offense, then what difference does it make how any player taking them performed during any other part of his career?

This situation is akin to that of Pete Rose. I have long maintained that if a black player set the records he did, and had the identical gambling issues, he would still have been elected to the HOF immediately. I'm certain that Bonds will be inducted the first go round as well. If there is any indication he won't be, the black "community" will rally passionately to his support, as they invariably do when a high profile black is in jeopardy of facing the same standards all whites must abide by.

If Bonds goes in, you have to put Clemens and McGwire in. If not, then the HOF voters are as impartial as the idiotic jury that wouldn't vote Bonds guilty on three of the four charges against him.

I don't think Bonds should be in the Hall. He's a cheater. He should be banned. But I know how it's going to play out. It's actually quite simple. Virtually all white players with the taint of steroid use will be effectively black balled from the Hall, along with the steroid linked hispanics, but all of the US black players will be voted in. Bonds, Sheffield, etc.

But hey it's black/jew run amrika, what else would you expect? Fairness? Commonsense? decency? nope.

You are right about Rose too. A black player would have been voted in long ago. But its the same story.

 

[Carolina Speed]

Here's some interesting stats: M.McGwire first full4 yrs. in MLBaverage.38 HR's, 105 RBI's, .254 avg.
B.Bonds first full4 yrs. in MLB average. 25 HR's, 72 RBI's, .273 avg.

My point is, everyone always talks about B. Bonds HOF career before steroids. What about McGwire? His avg. numbers are certainly worthmention, late 80's.

This may be reaching a little, but if McGwire wouldn't have beeninjured so much throughout hiscareer, he would have hit atleast 800 HR's. Career HR/AB was 10.6, 6,187 AB, 583 HR's
Bonds HR/AB was 12.9 9,830 AB, 762 HR's

Do the math, at that pace he would have hit 900 HR's with as many AB's, but if just used Bonds' pace to finish his career, he would have hit well over 800HR's

We don't really know what McGwire could have done, but he too was certainly on pace for a HOF career, before injury and steroids!

 

[GiovaniMarcon]

I don't even know why Bonds' induction into the Hall of Fame is even an issue.

If course I DO know; mine is simply rhetorical exasperation.

He's a cheater. End of story. He knowingly and willfully took drugs to give him an unfair edge against his competition and for personal gain.

By this same standard, if Clemens and MacGwire are also guilty, then they're also cheaters and should also be shunned.

Either "let them all in and STFU," or let NONE of them in and be done with it.

-- However Clemens and MacGwire are held under different standards not because what they DID was any different, but because they were Caucasian when they did it.

Same story, always.

White men are held to a higher standard of ethics. If a White man steals a loaf of bread, he's going to get the book thrown at him. If a Black man does the same, suddenly we have the Sharptons and Jacksons wailing and boo-hooing about the poor man and how White society drives Blacks to committing crime.

When Whites and Blacks pander toward innate Black inferiority like this they don't even realize how racist they're being, and how behaving like this does Blacks no favors.

Rather, it gives Blacks a totally unwarranted sense of entitlement and accomplishment where there should be none.

To White man: You want the bread? Go to school, get a job, earn the money, BUY IT, you a$$hole.

To Black man: Cry like a whiny little b!tch until someone gives you a handout, then pull the racism card when they don't give you free sh!t fast enough.

PATHETIC.