300/Christianity Debate

[guest301]

Guest301, Satan is indeed the driving force behind the Globalists as they're trying to expedite the one-world government (then 1-world religion) in preperation for the arrival of the Antichrist. It's all there in Daniel & Revalations. In additional to the Bible, I stongly suggest the outstanding, informative books...

http://shop.wnd.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=1895

what's up chicken-fried ogre..

I guess we are in more agreement than I thought...For those who don't know..that's a name Dixie used referring to his pro_ wrestling persona once.

 

[guest301]

It's the actual government of Israel that are puppets of the New World Order. The current Knesset building (Israeli Legislature) building was paid for by James A. de Rothschild (of the Globalist Elite "House of Rothschild") as a gift to the State of Israel in 1957. The Israeli Supreme Court building is filled with Masonic/Illuminati symbolism. Have a looksee...

[url]http://planetquo.com/Illuminati-Design-And-Symbolism-In-The- Israeli-Supreme-Court-Building[/url]

Not suprised by any of that info. I think you could say the same thing about any major countries goverment in the entire world. The globalists are in almost complete control, I don't deny that and I know there are a certain percentage of reprobate Jews participating in that nonsense. Lots of gentiles too! I am no fan of the CFR, Bildeburgers, Illuminatti, Skull and Bones, Masons(although I have many friends who are Masons), etc... I think most of you have a blind spot on this issue,because most of you fail to see the spiritual componet and true adversary (Satan) that is behind all this. I know you could also say because of my ethnic partianship and religous beliefs, that I have a blind spot too. We will have to agree to disagree.

Guest301, Satan is indeed the driving force behind the Globalists as they're trying to expedite the one-world government (then 1-world religion) in preperation for the arrival of the Antichrist. It's all there in Daniel & Revalations. In additional to the Bible, I stongly suggest the outstanding, informative books...

http://shop.wnd.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=1895

What's up chicken-fried ogre...I guess we are in more agreement than I thought...for those who don't know...that's the name Dixie used referring to his pro-wrestling persona!

 

[guest301]

Sorry for the double post

 

[Guest]

Hmm...I come back to this 300 thread a week later, and we're in full-on Z0Gist mode.

Friggin' brilliant material, guys.

I love this board...♥.

 

[PitBull]

Speak of the devil, and he appears...

Oh, and one more thing Jervey--the guys here have nothing on your anti-
christian bigotry and hate. I guess what keeps you coming back is that you
have so much in common with them, being a common bigot and all. Two
sides of the same coin. Friggin' brilliant commentary from a leftist hack, so
predictable. Nice you had something of value to add.Edited by: PitBull

 

[Kaptain]

Hmm...I come back to this 300 thread a week later, and we're in full-on Z0Gist mode.

Friggin' brilliant material, guys.

I love this board...¢¾.

and yet he keeps coming back. Haven't found a decent swarthy/Jewish loving board to post on yet, Jerve? It sounded like you were against the beating of the war drums when you first posted about this movie. Even you are not foolish enough to think that Israeli influence had nothing to do with the war in Iraq. BTW, you don't have to reply you can always go to that swarthy board.

 

[screamingeagle]

I have time now. I do volunteer work for veterns groups. I help raise funds, help set up events, ect.
In the early 80's I met a retired Marine corp general. Since retiring he leads tour groups to Isreal. They see Masada and all the other historical site. He told me how much he admires the bravery of the Isrealis. He had tears in his eyes while he was talking.
I was stunned. This man fought in WW II and Korea. he won the congressional medal of honor. What he did was legendary, what the marines under his command did was legendary also. He saw the Isrealis as fellow warriors and admired them. Being polite I never mentioned the many flaws of the Isreali military system. At the time I thought it was just his opinion. (BTW he was a Baptist.)
Since then I have yet to hear a military person critize Isreal or compliment the Moslems. They all see Isreal as fellow warriors and Moslems as idiots.
So when you ask why America seems to always support Isreal, remember there are many retired American military officers putting in the good word for them. (I should note they are not being paid for this) That, not some interbational Zionist conspiracy is the reason.
The Moslems do have friends. The oil companies support them, construction companies (Bechel, halliburton), and banks. (The Rothchilds are fading in importance.) But the group that would impress your average american to support Isreal would be our military leaders, not your average banker.
Now I hope I didn't frighten anybody by what I said.

 

[Bart]

In the early 80's I met a retired Marine corp general. Since retiring he leads tour groups to Isreal. They see Masada and all the other historical site. He told me how much he admires the bravery of the Isrealis. He had tears in his eyes while he was talking.

Screamingeagle, I understand your perspective,. At one time in my life, I would have agreed with you. You said the Baptist friend of yours who was a General leads tour groups to Israel. His views of the Jews surely must be colored by his religious beliefs and convictions.


I supposethe tears flow when he takes his groups to Masada.Masada has become a very important place in israel.It inspires the IDF and causes Christian tourists to shed tears for the heroic Jews who lost their lives defending the hill top fortress from the Romansoldierswho outnumbered them.I've heard it compared to the Alamo.

Peter O'Toole starred in a movie of the week made about the story. I happened to stand atop the hill myself many years ago and listened to an Israeli tour guide deliver his spiel. Very moving, not a dry eye among us.


That was then and now is now. My views have changed over the years and l see the story in a different light. Apparently the group were members of a sect (Sicarii- Zealots) that was known for it's treachery and ruthlessness. They were known to suddenly attack and kill groups of Romans and fellow Jews. Some historians don't portray thempositively at all.Themen who gave their lives at the Alamo went down fighting the enemy! Not the case at Masada. The brave Israelis killed each other off, rather than go at it with the Romans. They apparently drew lots and some were chosen to kill fellow tribesmen with the sword until all were gone. Despite protestations, that is a descriptionofmass suicide. Not hardly the stuff of legends.


I should add that the number of suicides was estimated to be nearly 1,000. That total beats Jim Jones and those drinking his Kool-Aid. Edited by: Bart

 

[guest301]

I have time now. I do volunteer work for veterns groups. I help raise funds, help set up events, ect.
In the early 80's I met a retired Marine corp general. Since retiring he leads tour groups to Isreal. They see Masada and all the other historical site. He told me how much he admires the bravery of the Isrealis. He had tears in his eyes while he was talking.
I was stunned. This man fought in WW II and Korea. he won the congressional medal of honor. What he did was legendary, what the marines under his command did was legendary also. He saw the Isrealis as fellow warriors and admired them. Being polite I never mentioned the many flaws of the Isreali military system. At the time I thought it was just his opinion. (BTW he was a Baptist.)
Since then I have yet to hear a military person critize Isreal or compliment the Moslems. They all see Isreal as fellow warriors and Moslems as idiots.
So when you ask why America seems to always support Isreal, remember there are many retired American military officers putting in the good word for them. (I should note they are not being paid for this) That, not some interbational Zionist conspiracy is the reason.
The Moslems do have friends. The oil companies support them, construction companies (Bechel, halliburton), and banks. (The Rothchilds are fading in importance.) But the group that would impress your average american to support Isreal would be our military leaders, not your average banker.
Now I hope I didn't frighten anybody by what I said.

Great post, screaming eagle. I admire your work with veterans groups very much. It has been my experience as well that alot of our american military, active and retired have a tremendous admiration for their compatriots in the Israeli military. I also say that in responce to Bart's post, Masada can be lugitimately compared to the Alamo, the jews held off the roman army for over a year and a half on top of that mountain. Mass suicide is much better than to surrender all the men to be tortured and killed, women raped and children living in slavery for the rest of their lives. It's amazing how we can all spin history to fit our views, Yes I include myself in that.

 

[C Darwin]

Bloody Romans

And what about you? Do you find it...risible, when I say the name.....Edited by: C Darwin

 

[Solomon Kane]

IMO, Both the 67 AD revolt and the circa AD 120 revolt were foolish ventures--doomed from the start. Even without the hindsight, it is difficult to see how they could have succeeded.

The great jewish Historian Flavius Josephus, initially a leader of the 67 revolt, gradually came to see this.

That doesn't take away from the courage of the Jewish forces who fought at Jerusalem--or the courage, skill, and persistence of the Romans.

Josephus had a great quote in regard to the Romans:

"Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills."

As for Masada, I don't admire the mass suicide. The men should have gone down fighting--why not take a few of your enemies with you, if you are going to die anyway?

As for slavery issue, its possible that some of the slaves would've been sent to Roman households and been relatively well-treated, though I think most of them (most of the men, anyway), would've been sentenced to hard labor to help build the coliseum.

As a historical side-note, Christians at that time were warned by their leaders not to take part in the revolt against the Romans, and to "flee to the mountains" as Jesus had advised.

"When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then those in Judea must flee to the mountains."

The Sack of Jerusalem was a Divine punishment operating through the Roman legions, a punishment for the Crucifixion of Christ.

 

[Kaptain]

Since then I have yet to hear a military person critize Isreal or compliment the Moslems. They all see Isreal as fellow warriors and Moslems as idiots.
So when you ask why America seems to always support Isreal, remember there are many retired American military officers putting in the good word for them. (I should note they are not being paid for this) That, not some interbational Zionist conspiracy is the reason.

I know a lot of veterans and not one has mentioned fighting side by side with an israeli. I would suppose any veteran that fought side by side with any ally at the time might be biased. Nor have the veterans I have met had any personal account of muslims. So I don't see much bases for your grassroots type of pro-Israel/anti-muslim rhetoric coming from military personnel.

Basing war policy on such things as personal emotions rather than solid logic is what got us into this mess in the Middle East anyway. Drumming up hatred for muslims is just a war ploy. They can be as idiotic as they want to be on their own soil. BTW, polls show that veterans and active military personnel oppose the current war just as the majority of American people do. Now what forces do you suppose are drowning out those voices? Clue: It's not because of the powerful grip of pro-muslim forces in the US.
Edited by: Kaptain Poop

 

[guest301]

IMO, Both the 67 AD revolt and the circa AD 120 revolt were foolish ventures--doomed from the start. Even without the hindsight, it is difficult to see how they could have succeeded.

The great jewish Historian Flavius Josephus, initially a leader of the 67 revolt, gradually came to see this.

That doesn't take away from the courage of the Jewish forces who fought at Jerusalem--or the courage, skill, and persistence of the Romans.

Josephus had a great quote in regard to the Romans:

"Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills."

As for Masada, I don't admire the mass suicide. The men should have gone down fighting--why not take a few of your enemies with you, if you are going to die anyway?
I hate to nitpick at a otherwise good post..but I don't have a problem with the mass suicide considering the circumstances...the men had been fighting the mighty Roman army for over a year and a half..but they had their wives and children with them and the thought of leaving the women and children at the mercy of what had to be a extremely frustrated and angry Roman army at the time is understandable....it wouldn't suprise me at all if the women were begging them to kill them rather than be raped tortured and killed by the Roman army...God only knows what would have happened to the children...so mass-suicide was in my mind noble in this particular case and I would say the same thing even if they were not Jewish. If no women and children were involved, then the men should have fought till the very end. That's what I think the British sailors and marines should have done when the Iranians surrounded them..but they gave up far too easily...I think American Marines and sailors would have either gone down fighting and/or at least made a attempt to resist.

 

[Bart]

I hate to nitpick at a otherwise good post..but I don't have a problem with the mass suicide considering the circumstances...but they had their wives and children with them and the thought of leaving the women and children at the mercy of what had to be a extremely frustrated and angry Roman army at the time is understandable....

Well, if that was the concern, the men could have terminated the lives of the women and children and still have been free to go after the Romans with a vengeance. I'm not really being critical of judgements made in very trying circumstances. I'm just pointing out the - spin -that is always applied to events pertaining to brave Israeli fighting men.Masada is not comparable to the Alamo.

 

[guest301]

I hate to nitpick at a otherwise good post..but I don't have a problem with the mass suicide considering the circumstances...but they had their wives and children with them and the thought of leaving the women and children at the mercy of what had to be a extremely frustrated and angry Roman army at the time is understandable....

Well, if that was the concern, the men could have terminated the lives of the women and children and still have been free to go after the Romans with a vengeance.  I'm not really being critical of judgements made in very trying circumstances. I'm just pointing out the - spin - that is always applied to events pertaining to brave Israeli fighting men.  Masada is not comparable to the Alamo. 

We disagree. Maybe the Alamo is not the best historical battle to compare it too. But from a courage and putting up a good fight standpoint, it is. The battle for the Alamo lasted thirteen days, the battle at Masada(more a campaign than battle) lasted over a year and a half against the greatest miltary power on earth. Besides if the men had stayed and fought after killing their wives and children, who's to say the Romans would have allowed the Jews to fight to the death, in the age of swords and spears, death wasn't guaranteed and a slow tortorous crucifixion awaited most of the jewish men if they hadn't done what they did. Who want's to die that way, where's the dignity in that. Mass suicide in this particular case made a statement and I don't think it was a cowardly one.

 

[White Shogun]

I'm surprised at you, Aragorn. Suicide is never an option for a believer, whether Israelite or Christian.

Furthermore, many Christians were martyred by crucifixion, including Simon Peter who was crucified upside down. Jesus Christ and many disciples died by crucifixion. Should they have just gathered in the upper room and slit their wrists instead of preaching the Gospel under threat of torture and death?

How much more heroic would those at Masada have been, how much more storied their legacy, if they had killed three times their number in Romans? Or twice their number?

Solomon Kane, can you give references or cite a source that says that Christians were warned not to take part in the revolt? Thanks.

 

[guest301]

I'm surprised at you, Aragorn. Suicide is never an option for a believer, whether Israelite or Christian.

Furthermore, many Christians were martyred by crucifixion, including Simon Peter who was crucified upside down. Jesus Christ and many disciples died by crucifixion. Should they have just gathered in the upper room and slit their wrists instead of preaching the Gospel under threat of torture and death?

How much more heroic would those at Masada have been, how much more storied their legacy, if they had killed three times their number in Romans? Or twice their number?

---------------------------------------------------------

Good point Shogun, but they were not Christians. This was a battle for survival and a way of life. I doubt the Jews at Masada were all that concerned with setting some kind of noble and altruistic example for the Roman soldiers. They killed plenty of Roman soldiers before they took their own lives. Certainly more than anyone would have expected them too beforehand considering the strength of the opposition.
As far as suicide not being a option for the Christian at any time, you are probably right.

Edited by: guest301

 

[guest301]

I just wanted to add another closing thought before I move on from this thread. I concede that mass suicide is usually not the best option in these kind of events and I understand the point that Shogun and others have made on that issue.

I just wanted to add that this mass-suicide was likely not a instantaneous decision made during the last days of this epic confrontation. I think the Jews at Masada realized for a long time that defeat was inevitable as soon as the Romans finished building that Rampart that would help them get over the walls of Masada. So while they couldn't in the end deny victory to the Romans, they could deny them the celebration of their victory. I think that was one of the purposes of why this ended the way that it did. That's what some historians say anyway. This was the last decision these men could make as free men and they wanted to go out in their own terms and make a statement that we are still talking about today.
I have some serious disagreements from time to time with certain members of Caste Football. But there is one opinion I have which I think covers all the members of this site. We are all warriors of one kind or another. I think most of us here would die for what we believe in if that was the price we had to pay. We are after all here at CF for a reason, we have not quitely accepted our fate as a culture, race or nation. I wish sometimes that this world wasn't so "civilized" and that we could take matters into our own hands and actually have a chance at success. That's what our American forefathers did, but it appears we don't have that as a option. We just have to find other ways to take our stand, speak the truth as we know it and make a difference. Sorry for the soapbox.

 

[Solomon Kane]

Shogun;

The primary warning was from Jesus Himself in Luke, 21, vv. 20-24, who warned Christians to "flee to the mountains"--away from Jerusalem. Since the Judaic revolt was centered in Jerusalem, this action involved an implicit abandonment of the cause of rebellion.

Jesus also called the Roman victory: "the days of vengeance" against Jerusalem.

See also the Venerable Bede: "all the Christians who were in in Judea, when the destruction of Jerusalem was approaching, being warned of the Lord, departed from that place, and dwelt beyond the Jordan in a city called Pella, until the desolation of Judea was ended."
(Ecclesiatical History, 3, c.5)

There are other Church Historians who relate this in greater detail. Since St. Peter was in Rome, it was probably the Bishop of Jerusalem who led the Christians out of Jerusalem into Pella.

Good Post re; suicide. You made the central point-- suicide is wrong.

Guest301: God's law against Suicide is binding on Jews as well as Christians. In fact it binds all humans since it is part of the Natural Law (as well as a part of the 10 commandments). The commandment "do no murder" also is a command against "self-murder."

Suicide is normally a sign of an ethically unhinged spirit---See Judas Iscariot.

In any event, a very grim siege and conclusion.

 

[jaxvid]

Too bad about Masada. Gee you'd think Jehovah would have intervened like he did at that battle with the Maccabees. I mean if he can do the following for the Jews:

According to the Talmud, at the re-dedication of the Temple in Jerusalem following the victory of the Maccabees over the Seleucid Empire, there was only enough consecrated olive oil to fuel the eternal flame in the Temple for one day. Miraculously, the oil burned for eight days - which was the length of time it took to press, prepare and consecrate new oil.

WOW! Oil burning for eight, that's E-I-G-H-T days, AND it kept the eternal flame burning, we all know how important that was! I mean a miracle like that deserves to be celebrated with other people's religious observances like the one where the SAVIOR of the human race is born.

Or course being Jewish it must have been extremely important to them to get 8 days out of 1 day of oil. Oy veh! Think of the money saved. And that was consecrated oil not retail.

But I digress. So if God is gonna intervene there, with the oil thing, then why ever would they commit suicide when there was a chance for a pillar of fire, or parting of the seas, or some other kind of favor?

Oh ye of little faith.

 

[Bart]

Shogun;


Good Post re; suicide. You made the central point-- suicide is wrong.

Guest301: God's law against Suicide is binding on Jews as well as Christians. In fact it binds all humans since it is part of the Natural Law (as well as a part of the 10 commandments). The commandment "do no murder" also is a command against "self-murder."

Suicide is normally a sign of an ethically unhinged spirit--- Judas Iscariot.

Boy , this thread has taken a few twists and turns. One of the reasons Caste Footballis such a great place is the caliber of folks posting here. I am not really inclined to condemn people who have committed suicide.I suppose you could saysome wereunhinged in some way. If one believes it is wrong because of religious convictions or biblical statements, then of course, there is no room for disagreement. I mean, if God said it, that is the end of the matter.


Edited by: Bart

 

[White Shogun]

Thought provoking posts.

Bart, from my point of view, saying something is morally wrong is not that same thing as condemning a person. It may be semantics but in theological discussions semantics make all the difference.

Solomon, my point of view regarding Jesus' words to the Jews may also be one of semantics, but there is a difference between saying 'flee to the mountains' and 'do not take part in the rebellion.' Commanding a people to refrain from taking part in a rebellion implies there was some interest or intent on their part to engage in that rebellion, but they should refrain, whereas anyone can be told to flee, especially those who are not inclined to engage in battle in the first place, which is what Jesus said - "flee to the mountains."

Considering that most of Jesus' early disciples were martyred leads me to believe that they didn't believe in defending even their very persons, let alone engage in a rebellion to overthrow the government. Render unto Caesar's what is Caesar's, and render unto God what is God's is the operative teaching in this case (in my opinion.)

 

[guest301]

Thought provoking posts.



Considering that most of Jesus' early disciples were martyred leads me to believe that they didn't believe in defending even their very persons, let alone engage in a rebellion to overthrow the government. Render unto Caesar's what is Caesar's, and render unto God what is God's is the operative teaching in this case (in my opinion.)

Shogun...I think the early disciples were more concerned with getting out the message of Christ and setting up a solid foundation for the early church. I don't think they thought such things as a rebellion against the Romans or such things as self defence were wrong..it just that those things were not important at that particular point in time primarily because God was still punishing the Jews for their disobedience and I think they all knew from their understanding of scriptures that Israel was not going to be a soveregn country again for a long time..so why rebel?...
Another thing...self-defence is not wrong for a Christian. I'm not sure you were saying that Shogun, but there is a passage in Luke where Jesus commands his disciples to carry swords with them when he sent them off to a nearby village.. people were robbed often when they were making those trips and swords were used primarily for self-defence...Edited by: guest301

 

[Triad]

I have some serious disagreements from time to time with certain members of Caste Football. But there is one opinion I have which I think covers all the members of this site. We are all warriors of one kind or another. I think most of us here would die for what we believe in if that was the price we had to pay. We are after all here at CF for a reason, we have not quitely accepted our fate as a culture, race or nation. I wish sometimes that this world wasn't so "civilized" and that we could take matters into our own hands and actually have a chance at success. That's what our American forefathers did, but it appears we don't have that as a option. We just have to find other ways to take our stand, speak the truth as we know it and make a difference. Sorry for the soapbox.

Although your posts are a little to the left of mine they do make for good reading. Since we all basically anonymous, I'm not sure what caliber of warriors we all are here or who would fight to the death. This civilized wall holding us all back and providing protection can be eliminated via any natural or manmade disaster. All it takes is for someone or something to turn the lights off and you'd better be ready to defend yourself in this multicultural melting pot; i.e. -Hurricane Katrina.

 

[guest301]

Hopefully it won't come to that. We are about twenty years away from being outnumbered. The movie "300" all over again.