2020 NFL Draft

[Bucky]

Well here's a new one. In the NFL.com scouting report on linebacker Evan Weaver it lists as one of his weaknesses "Won't be a head-turner at the beach." This apparently is an essential skill for an NFL linebacker.

Another pretty gay comment from a DWF writer lol.

 

[Extra Point]

There are at least three white linebackers that should be drafted. Logan Wilson, Joe Bachie and Evan Weaver. All look like pretty good prospects that should make teams. I've seen Wilson mocked as high as the 3rd round.

 

[Johnny Tightlips]

I could see teams using Muse as a Hybrid LB/S especially with defenses adjusting to spread era. Read an article about a month ago saying Packers only had 2or more DL in the field last year something like 30% of the time. Instead they went DB heavy and as a result had 200lb Afflete safeties playing LB was the norm. As another result of this innovative Defense,49ers shredded the Pack for 285rushing yds in NFC Championship!

I could see teams using Muse as a Hybrid LB/S especially with defenses adjusting to spread era. Read an article about a month ago saying Packers only had 2or more DL in the field last year something like 30% of the time. Instead they went DB heavy and as a result had 200lb Afflete safeties playing LB was the norm. As another result of this innovative Defense,49ers shredded the Pack for 285rushing yds in NFC Championship!

The Chargers did something similar against the Patriots in the playoffs.....Patriots running backs completely shredded them! It does seam linebackers are getting smaller and my hybrid like but you still need legit 250 pound guys to stop the run game

 

[Leonardfan]

Well here's a new one. In the NFL.com scouting report on linebacker Evan Weaver it lists as one of his weaknesses "Won't be a head-turner at the beach." This apparently is an essential skill for an NFL linebacker.

Another pretty gay comment from a DWF writer lol.

Just plain bizarre that this would even matter. Great illustration of these DWF weenies though. I am assuming it was Lance Zeirlein who did the write up of Weaver.


I did come across this draft preview. It's actually not a terrible read - it's written from a Steelers fan point of view but does not seem to be overtly caste other than the sheer number of non-white draft prospects listed but I don't hold that against the author.

https://gbnreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/2020-Draft.pdf

 

[Shadowlight]

There are at least three white linebackers that should be drafted. Logan Wilson, Joe Bachie and Evan Weaver. All look like pretty good prospects that should make teams. I've seen Wilson mocked as high as the 3rd round.

Highly confident David Woodward will get drafted too. Another mystery player since his season ending injury was undisclosed and my radar thinks that affected his combine 40 time negatively. Comes from the same school as Kyler Fackrell.

Two edge hybrid linebackers who also have a very good chance of getting drafted are Casey Toohill and Carter Coughlan. Both are excellent athletes with speed. Toohill had a 39 inch vertical! These two players need some refinement but their growth potential is exciting.

Those on the fringe that might miss out are Cale Garrett and Dante Olson who had a whopping 42 inch vertical at the combine. Olson in particular is intriguing.

To follow up on the Tanner Muse talk up above I see Daniel Sorensen as the prototype. Sorensen lines up all over the field from linebacker to deep safety and his stellar play in my mind was easily one of the biggest reasons the Chiefs won the Super Bowl. To me Muse is the most interesting ( and my favorite) player in the draft and I am anxious to see which teams picks him. He will most likely start on special teams from day one and hopefully the team that drafts him watch Sorensen tapes and utilize Tanner in the same manner.

By the way Logan Wilson is climbing up draft boards and some have him in the second round now. The first may still be in reach. Wilson is a three down linebacker that can handle all the necessary duties. He has exceptional quickness.

 

[La France Blanche]

"Head turner" LOL. Is the NFL a beauty pageant now? That belongs right there with "tight hips" and "boring feet."

 

[Leonardfan]

I've started doing my final dive into the 2020 draft as it is only about two weeks away. Once a few more 7 round mock drafts are out I'll compare them and run numbers for the projected number of whites that should be drafted as well as get my rankings up with projections on where our guys could be selected.

One trend I am noticing is that teams may play it "safe" in round 1 which means there will be a run on sumos - the teams will have a built in excuse once many of these sumos turn out to be nothing by penalty making turn stiles is that their were no pro days due to the Covid-19 crisis.

Another trend I have been noticing in mock drafts is for the Jaguars to draft a QB early - the only ones I have seen are Tagiolova and Love being mocked to Jacksonville - media wants to do their best to write off Minshew as an aberration rather than give him credit and allow him to go into his 2nd season as the starter.

There is also alot of buzz around Miami trading up with the Bengals to secure the 1st overall pick and Joe Burrow. I have also seen Herbert being mocked to the Dolphins as well. At least in Herbert's case I believe this is smoke screen and the Dolphins are going to draft Tagiolva.

Another curious player to watch is the Baylor DL James Lynch - I have seen him mocked in the 1st round and in the late rounds. A lot of discrepancy there.

 

[Extra Point]

I've read a number of mock drafts. I've noticed there is a wide variance where the drafts have some players going. Some have a player going in the second while another will have them going in the 5th. There doesn't seem to be a consensus on a lot of players.

 

[Red Raider]

More great pro days for our guys:
Idaho State WR Michael Dean
5’6” 155lbs
40: 4.30
Vert: 40 inches
20 yd shuttle: 4.08
3 cone: 6.88
Broad jump: 10’2”
Bench: 20 reps

This guy has all of the testing numbers you want and the college production to back it up, he’s just a little smaller. I would love for a team to give this former track star a chance to be a slot receiver/return man, he could be a stud!

Memphis LB/S Austin Hall
6’1” 220lbs
40: 4.50
Vert: 40 inches
3 cone: 6.84
Bench: 17
Broad jump: 10’

Hall is a guy who 100% deserves to be drafted and has the athletic ability to backup his productive college career as a 4 year starter. He apparently has been in contact with the Packers, Raiders, Steelers, 49ers, Cowboys, Colts, and Bills. I fully expect him to be on an NFL roster next year regardless if he is drafted or not.

Nevada WR Kaleb Fossum
5’9” 185lbs
40: 4.50
3 cone: 7.08
20 yard shuttle: 4.19

Another under the radar guy who had 100+ receptions and 1000+ yards in college in addition to being a punt/kick returner. He will go the undrafted route but it would be nice to see him get an opportunity somewhere.

Cornell CB David Jones
6’0” 195lbs
40: 4.40
3 cone: 6.69!!
20 yard shuttle: 4.00!!
Broad jump: 10’

Another super quick athlete, David Jones doesn’t look like your typical corner (we all know why) but his measurables match up with the best of them. He had really good production in the Ivy League to match it with 100+ tackles and 9 career INT’s. If a team picks him up I really hope they don’t try to convert him to safety.

 

[Extra Point]

More great pro days for our guys:
Idaho State WR Michael Dean
5’6” 155lbs
40: 4.30
Vert: 40 inches
20 yd shuttle: 4.08
3 cone: 6.88
Broad jump: 10’2”
Bench: 20 reps

This guy has all of the testing numbers you want and the college production to back it up, he’s just a little smaller. I would love for a team to give this former track star a chance to be a slot receiver/return man, he could be a stud!

Memphis LB/S Austin Hall
6’1” 220lbs
40: 4.50
Vert: 40 inches
3 cone: 6.84
Bench: 17
Broad jump: 10’

Hall is a guy who 100% deserves to be drafted and has the athletic ability to backup his productive college career as a 4 year starter. He apparently has been in contact with the Packers, Raiders, Steelers, 49ers, Cowboys, Colts, and Bills. I fully expect him to be on an NFL roster next year regardless if he is drafted or not.

Nevada WR Kaleb Fossum
5’9” 185lbs
40: 4.50
3 cone: 7.08
20 yard shuttle: 4.19

Another under the radar guy who had 100+ receptions and 1000+ yards in college in addition to being a punt/kick returner. He will go the undrafted route but it would be nice to see him get an opportunity somewhere.

Cornell CB David Jones
6’0” 195lbs
40: 4.40
3 cone: 6.69!!
20 yard shuttle: 4.00!!
Broad jump: 10’

Another super quick athlete, David Jones doesn’t look like your typical corner (we all know why) but his measurables match up with the best of them. He had really good production in the Ivy League to match it with 100+ tackles and 9 career INT’s. If a team picks him up I really hope they don’t try to convert him to safety.

I thought Jones looked good in the drills commencing at 3:20. Anybody agree with me?

 

[Shadowlight]

More great pro days for our guys:
Idaho State WR Michael Dean
5’6” 155lbs
40: 4.30
Vert: 40 inches
20 yd shuttle: 4.08
3 cone: 6.88
Broad jump: 10’2”
Bench: 20 reps

This guy has all of the testing numbers you want and the college production to back it up, he’s just a little smaller. I would love for a team to give this former track star a chance to be a slot receiver/return man, he could be a stud!

Memphis LB/S Austin Hall
6’1” 220lbs
40: 4.50
Vert: 40 inches
3 cone: 6.84
Bench: 17
Broad jump: 10’

Hall is a guy who 100% deserves to be drafted and has the athletic ability to backup his productive college career as a 4 year starter. He apparently has been in contact with the Packers, Raiders, Steelers, 49ers, Cowboys, Colts, and Bills. I fully expect him to be on an NFL roster next year regardless if he is drafted or not.

Nevada WR Kaleb Fossum
5’9” 185lbs
40: 4.50
3 cone: 7.08
20 yard shuttle: 4.19

Another under the radar guy who had 100+ receptions and 1000+ yards in college in addition to being a punt/kick returner. He will go the undrafted route but it would be nice to see him get an opportunity somewhere.

Cornell CB David Jones
6’0” 195lbs
40: 4.40
3 cone: 6.69!!
20 yard shuttle: 4.00!!
Broad jump: 10’

Another super quick athlete, David Jones doesn’t look like your typical corner (we all know why) but his measurables match up with the best of them. He had really good production in the Ivy League to match it with 100+ tackles and 9 career INT’s. If a team picks him up I really hope they don’t try to convert him to safety.

Good stuff.

Dean joins Nate Cottrell and Mason Kinsey as yet another white 4.3 plus runner. Dean has zero chance of getting drafted. But if he was black he would have a shot on a team. Return specialist Jo Jo Natson has been fully employed by the NFL for three years and he is 5'7" 150 pounds. Saints media hero rookie returner Deonte Harris is 5'6" 165 pounds. KJ Hamler is considered a second round talent this year and he is "listed" at 5'9" 175 pounds but he looks smaller on tape.

I watched Dean's workout on his twitter feed and he looks exceptionally strong for a player his size. 20 bench reps is nothing to sneeze at. Remember his teammate Tanner Conner who is a member of their track team will be a senior this season and he is 6'3" 225 and has run the 60M Hurdles in 7.73. Tanner had a 47-781-8 stat line. Perhaps Tanner will have a better shot of getting noticed but don't bet the house on that either.

By the way in an earlier post on this thread I predicted Dean would run a 4.39 and translating his hand time into a 4.35 not far off but a slight underestimation. At least I had the wherewithal to predict under 4.4. And yet when a white player runs a fast 40 at the combine the fruitcake group including prick face Deion Sanders act like it is a once in a lifetime occurrence.

Another Ivy League stud? Should we be surprised? Draft scouts dismiss this league because I suspect it has the highest ratio of white skill players. While there might be some overall depth depravity on the front lines the Ivy is I would think similar to the MAC talent wise. And we know the NFL routinely drafts MAC players. So why do they always ignore the Ivy League talent? Gee will have to dwell on that for a while.

David Jones was a shut down corner who has all the skills necessary to play in the NFL. By the way he is solely a CB. Not a safety by any stretch. I noticed teams didn't put up huge passing numbers against Cornell this past season and most of that must have been because of Jones. And he was up against some terrific white wide receivers. So this athletic CB should slip in very late in the draft right? Shoe in right? Hip swivel, speed, explosion, back peddling skills and I am just taking a wild stab (ha) at this he might be super smart!

When this draft is all over I am going to compile a list of deserving hyper athletic white prospects who were totally ignored. David Jones and Michael Dean will be on that list.

Nice workout by Austin Hall by the way.

 

[Red Raider]

Yeah it’s unfortunate that David Jones isn’t getting the recognition he deserves, he is hands down an ELITE athlete. His change of direction is incredible as shown by his agility times and just watching him in the DB drills. Not to mention he’s been an incredible athlete dating back to high school where he was a 4 year starter at CB, 3 time all-state pick, 4 year starter in basketball, and a state runner-up sprinter. Oh and let’s not forget he was also Cornell’s kick and punt returner the last 3 years as well, he had over 1100 kick returner yards in college. I have no doubt in my mind he can play in the NFL, it’s just up to a team to give him his rightfully deserved chance.

 

[Extra Point]

San Jose State QB Josh Love is listed by PFF as their number 10 QB in this draft class. They rate him second among this draft class in terms of dealing with pressure.

Interestingly, and oddly, I could find hardly any scouting reports on him on the internet. I wonder about the reason for that.

 

[Don Wassall]

Here you go, Shadowlight. Weenieworld predictably pans the idea:

• The Daily News' Manish Mehta reports Steelers GM Kevin Colbert proposed that teams should be awarded three extra draft picks to offset any coronavirus restrictions.
  Shoot your shot. The league's lack of available private workouts and visits to team facilities have obviously thrown some organizations for a loop, forcing much displeasure behind closed doors. While Colbert's suggestion that a 10-round draft would widen any margin for error isn't exactly false, it emphasizes some front office's prehistoric thought processes and pre-draft preparation when forced to evaluate outside the box. April's draft — a "fully virtual" experience — will undoubtedly result in multiple late-round and undrafted players being impacted by the entire process.
  
  SOURCE: Manish Mehta on Twitter
  Apr 7, 2020, 12:04 PM ET

 

[Shadowlight]

I'll be damned. What a terrific idea by this GM and one that didn't occur to me. I was focused on the expanded rosters but yes teams are hampered this year as they have much less to go on so it makes sense for them to expand the number(s) of draft rounds. Even without the limited pro days this go around because of the larger rosters they should at the very least going forward add another round to the draft making it eight rounds.



One article cited the NFL Players Association saying extra rounds hurts players because they would prefer to shop around as free agents. Is that a fact or is that just a shield of baloney whose real aim is to protect themselves from rookies? For white free agents I can't recall many success stories. Adam Thielen is an outlier. David Sills is the norm. What looked like a nice landing spot in Buffalo, David was pinged out of there and is now on the Giants practice squad. Sure getting drafted doesn't guarantee an NFL spot but it is much more preferable not to mention the honor and respect that goes with having your name called out during the draft. I also think history dictates it increases their chances in making an NFL roster.

The NFL often resembles old time country clubs that used to discriminate based on race and or ethnicity who could become members. Now in a turn around the NFL looks like a protectionist club that ensures, year after year, that its caste make up remains intact and unfettered. It is a tightly constructed and controlled affair where a compact seven round draft leaves too many so called "fringe" white prospects left out in the cold.

So GMs and other personal more than any year in memory have to over rely on the glowing tunnel vision addled draft gurus scouting reports of mainly black players. Yet here at CF we have seen multiple white players from large and small schools, many of whom are coming off great seasons, performing in virtual pro days showing off elite athleticism. In other words they are making their cases convincingly but since they aren't on a draft gurus' rolodex they will be ( as they are so often are) easily ignored.

 

[Shadowlight]

The Year Of The (see black) Wide Receiver: A closer inspection.

The media is all over this. What a tremendous class we are told until our ears bleed.

From where I stand this year's WR crop is no better than other years. The only distinguishing factor is the complete lack of white receivers slotted to get drafted. Last years crop seemed just as good if not better than this year's product but I guess the media continues to downgrade anything related to a speed position if whites are around to taint everything.

I was amazed when I sifted through a full seven round list of receivers ( all black) that are slotted to get drafted by "draftsite" one of more than a few so called legitimate draft sites.

There were over thirty players listed and I was shocked to learn many of them are kind of slow. Quintez Cephus out of Wisconsin ran a ponderous 4.73 at the combine yet there he is listed as a sixth round prospect. Some fifth round prospects were in the 4.6 range. But even if you ignore some of the speed numbers this list is lacking. A lot of mediocrities clog up the list and it boggles the mind that players like Chris Finke, Mason Kinsey and Dalton Schoen can't squeeze into a seven round mock draft? And conveniently both Finke and Kinsey are listed on the fringe which means if the draft was expanded more than seven rounds they would likely be drafted.

Then there is this. Two Rhode Island wide receivers listed as seventh round picks. Rhode Island? Brings to mind historic football powerhouses like Alabama, Michigan and USC doesn't it? This mangy ass team managed to go something like 2-10 for the season and they played teams like Stony Brook, William and Mary, Albany and Elon. A real murderers row. They did manage to squeak out a win against Merrimack. What the hell is a Merrimack? Sounds like a junior college team that rolls out an intramural team. White receivers from small schools are constantly slammed and diminished for their level of competition. What about these two Rhode Island jokers?

Both of these black wide receivers got invited to the combine ( someone explain this) though. Hell by those standards there should have been at least three or more Ivy League receivers invited.

But enough about scrubs who play in little girl leagues. What about the big names?

SI cites eight earth moving game changers. Let's take a look at these so called studs that white players can only dream about being as good as.

KJ Hamler-puny receiver who does have a lot of speed but is not a natural pass catcher and will consistently drop balls. And struggle getting off press coverage. A one trick almost no trick pony ( see Tavon Austin) in waiting perhaps.

Chase Claypool-another black WR the media fawns over that has the size of a TE and the speed of a WR. Big deal. He lacks quickness and he can't block like a TE if his life depended on it.

Jalen Reagor-stiff looking ( steroids perhaps) speedster who looked underwhelming when I tuned in TCU games. More of a late round talent but many see him going in the second round. I wouldn't draft him anywhere.

Laviska Shenault Jr.- a big clunky looking athlete although we are assured he has speed despite a mediocre 40 time at the combine.

Justin Jefferson-Hard to judge since his QB Joe Burrow was so pinpoint in his passing.

Tee Higgins-Physical and big but lacks any sign of even pedestrian quickness. One of the reasons Clemson lost to LSU. He couldn't shake the LSU cornerbacks. And he struggled against the Ohio State cornerbacks.

Henry Ruggs III- Another instant media hero ( man do they love black receivers who run fast 40s) but as Don pointed out above most of these one trick ponies end up as flops. Wither Ruggs it is hard to say but Alabama is a system machine so I would proceed with caution. John Ross II anyone?

Ceedee Lamb-docked a notch for his annoying first name, a polished player with good fundamentals no doubt but certainly not athletically exciting.

Jerry Jeudy-took people by surprise by performing so poorly in drills apart from the straight ahead 40 yard dash at 4.45. In fact for a player lauded for his slippery quickness his mule like time in the 20 yard shuttle opened up some serious questions. Looks good on tape yet again is he made to look better than he actually is due to the Alabama system?

Will a few black wide receivers come through in this draft? I suppose so. But to call this the year of the wide receiver is beyond foolish.

 

[Leonardfan]

Thanks for posting the pro day information. Austin Hall should of received both senior bowl and combine invites but I believe he as not even invited to any of the lesser known bowl games.

Great find on David Jones - I was unaware of him. Another athlete destroying the embedded false stereotypes of white players.

Shadowlight - the fact those Rhode Island receivers are getting any sort of attention is a joke. I believe they both got combine invites too.

The NFL does not want to many white skill position players at the combine - they want to control the narrative by not allowing a larger sample size of white athletes at the skill positions. Every year pro days prove that white athletes can test just as good if not better than their black counterparts who are spoon fed and protected by the caste system through college and the nfl draft process It's pure BS.

 

[Extra Point]

The mainstream media has the Jaguars trying to replace Gardner Minshew by drafting Jordan Love. Minshew had an excellent rookie season. He played just as well as Kyler Murray and Daniel Jones, two first round picks. They've got their quarterback and they need help elsewhere. There's no way they should take Love.

 

[Red Raider]

The mainstream media has the Jaguars trying to replace Gardner Minshew by drafting Jordan Love. Minshew had an excellent rookie season. He played just as well as Kyler Murray and Daniel Jones, two first round picks. They've got their quarterback and they need help elsewhere. There's no way they should take Love.

I’ve noticed that most of the media and “nfl draft analysts” have absolutely no clue about the NFL and love to follow what the rest of their idiotic peers say. Minshew was fantastic for a 6th round pick, not to mention he almost went to Alabama to be 3rd string and start his coaching career right after. He will only get better. These guys don’t know anything and it sucks that what they post gets all of the views and probably persuades casual NFL fans to think the same thing. Here we are well informed and know the truth though.

It’s almost crazy how NFL media people keep saying that Brady needs a 3rd receiver and they write off Scotty Miller and Justin Watson like they don’t exist. We all know what Scotty Miller is capable of if he is healthy and given a chance, and we know that Justin Watson is a physical specimen who can become the next Eric Decker. Draft prospect CB David Jones said Justin Watson was the best receiver he ever faced in his interview with draft diamonds. Lets hope Brady will advocate for them like he has with other white receivers in the past.

 

[Extra Point]

OT Ben Bartch may be taken higher than many people think. He may go high in the 2nd round. He had an excellent Senior Bowl where he is said to have handled every pass rusher he came up against.

Tampa Bay at 46 is a possibility. They've already had success with two Division III players as their guards, Ali Marpet and Alex Cappa.

 

[FootballDad]

OT Ben Bartch may be taken higher than many people think. He may go high in the 2nd round. He had an excellent Senior Bowl where he is said to have handled every pass rusher he came up against.

Tampa Bay at 46 is a possibility. They've already had success with two Division III players as their guards, Ali Marpet and Alex Cappa.

Just think how good he could be if he had longer arms and didn't have "boring" feet!!

 

[Extra Point]

A tale of two safeties.

__________ht wt 40 20 10 L VJ BJ SS 3C
Jeremy Chinn 6030 221 4.45 2.58 1.55 20 41 1106 x.xx x.xx
Tanner Muse 6020 227 4.41 2.60 1.56 20 34.5 1004 4.12 6.84

As you can see the players' measurables are comparable. Chinn did better in the broad and vertical jumps. He didn't do the short shuttle or the three cone so we can assume he would have done poorly in them. Muse did well in them.

Chinn played at Southern Illinois which is a Division 1-AA program. He's projected as a second round pick. There is no talk of him being converted to linebacker.

Muse played at Clemson, a Division 1-A program. He also played on an NCAA championship team. Muse is projected to go anywhere from the 4th round to the 6th round. Every scouting report I've read has him converting to linebacker.

Chinn is black. Muse is white.

Note. I carefully aligned the "ht wt line" but it came out this way.

 

[Shadowlight]

Good point. In fact WR Mason Kinsey isn't that far behind Chinn on the small school list of prospects but he is not penciled in as being drafted.

Consider this too. Media hero and top 5-10 pick Clemson defensive prospect LB/hybrid Isaiah Simmons was a late bloomer. Tanner Muse has started for essentially three years at the best program in college football. Simmons has started for maybe a year and a half and I did see one guru bring that up saying that is a possible red flag.

But the red flags fly in the direction of white players every which way.

I bet Muse has a better NFL career than Chinn.

By the way I am finally starting to see Tanner's teammate S Nolan Turner start to show up on a 2021 draft board.

 

[Bucky]

Nice comparison @Extra Point !

Also wanted to expand further on trend to kick White College OTs inside. Runyan who is plenty athletic and has NFL bloodlines. Being listed as a late RD Guard..

How about Ball State's Danny Pinter?! 6'4 305 ran a 4.9 at combine. Former TE-OT. Now NFL strictly views him as a Guard.. Also considered late Rd pick.

High on both Runyan and Pinter. ColtonMcKivitz(WVU), Charlie Heck(UNC +NFL Bloodlines). Logan Sternberg(UK) and Ben Bredeson(UM) also solid OL.

Interested to see how some of their careers play out compared to some of the sumos that are drafted early.

*Also helluva workout from Memphis' Austin Hall. Interesting size, speed, production on his pedigree.

 

[white is right]

Here you go, Shadowlight. Weenieworld predictably pans the idea:

• The Daily News' Manish Mehta reports Steelers GM Kevin Colbert proposed that teams should be awarded three extra draft picks to offset any coronavirus restrictions.
  Shoot your shot. The league's lack of available private workouts and visits to team facilities have obviously thrown some organizations for a loop, forcing much displeasure behind closed doors. While Colbert's suggestion that a 10-round draft would widen any margin for error isn't exactly false, it emphasizes some front office's prehistoric thought processes and pre-draft preparation when forced to evaluate outside the box. April's draft — a "fully virtual" experience — will undoubtedly result in multiple late-round and undrafted players being impacted by the entire process.
  
  SOURCE: Manish Mehta on Twitter
  Apr 7, 2020, 12:04 PM ET

This would probably hamper smarter teams like the Patriots as their dynasty has been sustained by adding depth even key starters through UDFA's and cast off back up types that they saw as starters. I could see stupid scouting service is the bible teams like the Bungles advocating for this.