2019 NFL Draft

[Shadowlight]

As we approach the draft rumors are already flying. One is the Cardinals will choose Kyler Murray number one and trade Josh Rosen. Go for it ********. Teams can do what they want including screwing up the future by getting a media hero caste player who won't pan out.

Then there is the Trevor Lawrence news. While the current rules about entering the NFL stipulate a player can declare after their junior year and or if they are 21. The Trevor situation might get real sticky. I can see lawyers moving in like vultures.

There are a multitude of things that could happen. According to most experts including Mel Kiper, Trevor would be the first player chosen in the 2019 draft. So this begs a lot of questions?

Will Trevor stay all three years at Clemson?

Will he sit out the next two seasons as suggested by the Wall Street Journal?

Will he up the ante by joining one of these "off season" leagues like the new XFL thus putting pressure on the NFL to change their guidelines?

Will he play next season and sit out his junior year?

Will he challenge the rules in court which have already been tried unsuccessfully?

Now it could be he sticks it out at Clemson and becomes the first pick in the 2021 draft after his junior year. Will that happen? Maybe. I would say it is 50-50.

He is pro ready as many compare him to Peyton Manning now so you wonder about injury concerns. This will become a major talking point going forward.


Other odds and ends. Mixed bag really. There is a fairly decent chance RB Patrick Laird gets invited to the combine. If his workout numbers are within a certain range like running under a 4.7 40 yard dash and showing quickness in the drills I suspect after teams talk to him they might want to bite. It is my contention great character types out rule the underwear Olympic variables teams over rely on. As long as he shows enough athletic ability which I think he will. In a fair world Laird would get drafted. But who says things are fair. I have said this before. I would draft Laird in a second. At worst a solid mix it up catch run RB and a special teams player with leadership skills.

But RB AJ Ouellette is being ignored and likely as it stands today won't get invited which is a slap in the face.

From fairly decent sources it looks like four white WRs will be invited (Isabella has already been invited see above) to the combine. All four are projected to get drafted but I caution everyone here. Andy Isabella, Cody Thompson and Hunter Renfrow are listed as 6th to 7th round picks. David Sills is listed as a third round pick. We could still se as low as two or three white WRs get drafted. White WRs are always downgraded far below where they "should" be chosen.

Scott Miller and Trent Irwin as far as I can tell at this point won't be invited. Irwin is injured too which is a death blow. Miller is being totally ignored. Smallish white speedsters are seen as the Plague while small black speedsters are all over NFL rosters.

Things could change a little bit in the coming weeks but that is the latest I know from fairly reliable sources.

[Update. The Cardinals also might choose QB Haskins number one as trade bait.]

 

[white is right]

The woefully undersized Oklahoma black quarterback is going to be declaring for the draft now. Going to be a tough draft to follow. Can’t wait to see who drafts a 5’8 franchise qb in the first round that cannot make all the required nfl throws . How many nfl geniuses watch the Ravens anemicn offensive performance? Will any of them learn?

There is reason why bad teams are bad for years, it's because of obvious no brainer, Emperor Has No Clothes picks like this.

At best this guy is a developmental pick, he should be a late 3rd or a 4th round pick but some stupid team will overdraft draft a guy like this and essentially burn their pick.

PS I suspect this guy and his agent are going pick the sport that pays him the best, so if he gets drafted high in football he may play that until he busts out or rots on the bench for years. I heard a draft expert say that if he is chosen even as late as the early second round that will pay more than his baseball bonus.

 

[RTTAS]

Murray should be used like Taysom Hill or Lamar Jackson pre-starting. Few throws a game, lots of trick plays, used as a running back and as a receiver (spilt out wide or out of the backfield), and as a special teamer. See how he progresses and maybe look towards him at QB more full-time down the line if he develops enough but has use for a while as an all-purpose player. Worth a third round pick for that.

Instead I’m sure the media and idiot fans will shoehorn him well into the first round and some stupid team will hand him the keys to the offense and they’ll get burnt. Lamar Jackson was RG4 and Murray might be RG5, unless that’s Haskins. 2013 EJ Manuel and Geno Smith comparisons?

 

[Shadowlight]

The munchkin Murray profiles as a punt returner to me. I am high on Haskins though. He has the size, throwing motion, poise, accuracy and field awareness to make a mark. EJ Manuel and Geno Smith were much more of the scattershot variety. Haskins patterns his game after Tom Brady.

The problem with Haskins is his athleticism. He lacks quick twitch movements unlike say Mayfield, Wentz or Josh Allen, and his footwork under duress is of concern. But he has the tools to be a solid NFL QB and maybe a star. He did play in a pro set system.

Everyone has a preference but I prefer to have a quick twitch QB and the best of the incoming lot is tall and rangy but raw Daniel Jones out of Duke. Needs seasoning but he has the dynamism to really excite a fan base.

 

[Shadowlight]

I hope this will become a trend--inviting more white defenders to the combine. In a pleasant surprise TCU DE/LB Ty Summers has been invited to the combine. Dinged up a lot this year Summers is a speed edge player who has had a solid career at TCU.

Typically in the past a player like Summers would be overlooked come draft time. I would hope after witnessing years of black dominated defensive decline teams turn that trend around and start drafting white defenders like Summers.

 

[Truthteller]

Shadow, Maurice Clarrett and Mike Williams tried to sue the NFL over eligibility rules last decade and lost. Not only that, both were huge NFL busts. I can't see Trevor going down that road. Every so often a young superstar comes along and ESPN, led by Mel Kosher Jr. and Todd McGoy, start cackling 24/7 about them needing to sit out to "avoid injury". They did it with Jadeveon Clowney and Leonard Fournette most recently. Both sat games and neither was has been as awesome as advertised. They also did it with Adrian Peterson and he ignored it. Stayed in school, played all the games and then actually exceeded the enormous draft hype he got as a freshman. Elway and Andrew Luck were also goys that were tagged as potential #1 overall's as freshman and they did fine the next few years.

Going to a rival league would be a disaster. Couple issues: One, if Trevor thinks the injury risk is high in college, just imagine what it'd be in the XFL? Not that long ago I was reading about Craig James' time in the USFL, a league loaded with excellent NFL prospects, but the majority of players were either "washed-up", ex-NFL starters or absolute non-NFL prospects. James talked about how much worse it was than the NFL (in terms of dirty play). He said the "NFL prospects" wanted to break him in half to impress NFL scouts. Meanwhile the "truck drivers" and mechanics (non-prospects) wanted to hurt him even worse because they were frustrated about their pro status and jealous of his contract.

Also read recently the Los Angeles Express of the USFL had the highest paid offensive line in Pro Football back in 1984. Line was led by Hall of Fame tackle Gary Zimmerman. At the same time the Memphis Showboats had the highest paid defensive lineman in the history of football: Signed Hall of Famer Reggie White to a 5 year, 4 million dollar deal. Point? That was then; this is now. No fledgling league will ever be able to spend like that again and survive even one season. Vince McMahon has reportedly set aside $100 million to restart the XFL. As we speak, Aaron Donald, alone, is scheduled to make more than that -- 7yrs, $143 million. No way they could ever sign Trevor and he'd be a fool to take it (if they did), knowing he'd get nothing when the league folds and would be subjecting himself to injury in such a bush league, several steps below what the USFL was.

Best thing for Trevor is to sit down with Dabo Swinney and figure out a plan for the next two seasons. First step is take out a multi-million dollar insurance policy in case of a career ending injury. Also, Trevor might have to stop running as much in games. Dabo might also need to run the ball more with his running backs and get a second competent quarterback who could take over games when Clemson takes 17 (plus) point leads against very beatable opponents. In essence, you'd be intentionally cutting his playing time significantly to avoid injury.


As far as A.J. Ouellette, he was recently in Texas, trying to impress pro scouts at the College Gridiron Showcase (I linked CGS rosters Sunday), along with dozens of other white prospects who probably project as 7th rounders to UDFA's. Hopefully he fared well and will get a late invite to an All-Star game. But check this recent video of him working out*. He's totally jacked! Will that powerful build help him as power rushing tailback, like it clearly did for a recently transformed Zach Zenner last fall? Or will it make it even more likely he's Caste as a "blocking back" at the next level? One potential positive is his height: Ouellette's listed at 5'9", which is short for a "blocking stooge". Most are in the 6'1" area (plus minus two inches)?


* https://abc22now.com/sports/content/nfl-dreams-hope-to-be-on-horizon-for-aj-ouellette

 

[Red Raider]

The munchkin Murray profiles as a punt returner to me. I am high on Haskins though. He has the size, throwing motion, poise, accuracy and field awareness to make a mark. EJ Manuel and Geno Smith were much more of the scattershot variety. Haskins patterns his game after Tom Brady.

The problem with Haskins is his athleticism. He lacks quick twitch movements unlike say Mayfield, Wentz or Josh Allen, and his footwork under duress is of concern. But he has the tools to be a solid NFL QB and maybe a star. He did play in a pro set system.

Everyone has a preference but I prefer to have a quick twitch QB and the best of the incoming lot is tall and rangy but raw Daniel Jones out of Duke. Needs seasoning but he has the dynamism to really excite a fan base.

I agree with you, I think Murray is a good football player but I don't see yet how he would transition to the NFL. He's been a winner his whole life so I could see him panning out down the stretch but I think the road would be bumpy at first, but I would personally take him over Lamar Jackson if I had to choose between the 2 of them because I feel he can pass better. If anyone remembers his Texas A&M days he was terrible his one year and left after Trevor Knight transferred to A&M. He's always had it easy and been handed things so it will be nice to see the NFL test him and see if he can withstand upper level competition. I don't see him as a franchise QB at all, I think he'll get his chance early then be a backup for the rest of his time like RG3 and most of the other black QB's. Or he fails and runs off to baseball.
As far as the rest of the QB's I am not very high at all on this class, there aren't any can't miss prospects in my eyes. I think Haskins, Jones, and Lock would be my top 3 but I'm not sure if I would take any of them in the first round if I was drafting unless a QB was absolutely necessary. Jones is definitely my favorite QB prospect though. I see the potential in all the prospects, maybe I'm just being too harsh on them. However I am high on the WR/TE/EDGE/LB prospects we have in the draft this year. I'm high on a lot of the receivers even though most will likely barely get a chance and only a few will get drafted. Guys like Timmy Hernandez, Scott Miller, and Michael Walker I feel like could make it in the NFL but have been largely ignored during the process so far. I'm certain Miller will get opportunities, he should post a blazing time at his pro day.

 

[Tannehill17]

Kyler Murray is also half-Korean. This may explain why he's not a complete idiot and can actually read defenses (albeit college ones) very well.

 

[Leonardfan]

Truthteller - thanks for the Oullette video. I really hope he is able to garner a combine invite or blow up his pro day. The irony is he will be labeled too small to play running back yet Kyler Murray is currently being viewed as a 5'8" potential franchise QB. What's wrong with this picture? The Murray hype could very well be more media gossip than anything. It is going to be quite annoying to have to deal with though.

I still feel that this is a solid QB class and am eager to see how things play out. The Senior Bowl is always fun to monitor and I am really looking forward to seeing what all of the QBs do.

All of the pundits talking about Trevor Lawrence sitting out and coming up with all of these ridiculous statements are morons. From what I saw of him he comes from a good family and his priorities in order. He won't be chasing money and going to one of the upstart leagues. I am not old enough to remember Peyton Manning in college but I do remember Andrew Luck quite well - I feel Lawrence does have that type of ability. He also said after they won the championship he is going to be there for 3 more years - sure things can change but it is beyond stupid for these "experts" to state that he should sit for two years until eligible.

 

[white is right]

Shadow, Maurice Clarrett and Mike Williams tried to sue the NFL over eligibility rules last decade and lost. Not only that, both were huge NFL busts. I can't see Trevor going down that road. Every so often a young superstar comes along and ESPN, led by Mel Kosher Jr. and Todd McGoy, start cackling 24/7 about them needing to sit out to "avoid injury". They did it with Jadeveon Clowney and Leonard Fournette most recently. Both sat games and neither was has been as awesome as advertised. They also did it with Adrian Peterson and he ignored it. Stayed in school, played all the games and then actually exceeded the enormous draft hype he got as a freshman. Elway and Andrew Luck were also goys that were tagged as potential #1 overall's as freshman and they did fine the next few years.

Going to a rival league would be a disaster. Couple issues: One, if Trevor thinks the injury risk is high in college, just imagine what it'd be in the XFL? Not that long ago I was reading about Craig James' time in the USFL, a league loaded with excellent NFL prospects, but the majority of players were either "washed-up", ex-NFL starters or absolute non-NFL prospects. James talked about how much worse it was than the NFL (in terms of dirty play). He said the "NFL prospects" wanted to break him in half to impress NFL scouts. Meanwhile the "truck drivers" and mechanics (non-prospects) wanted to hurt him even worse because they were frustrated about their pro status and jealous of his contract.

Also read recently the Los Angeles Express of the USFL had the highest paid offensive line in Pro Football back in 1984. Line was led by Hall of Fame tackle Gary Zimmerman. At the same time the Memphis Showboats had the highest paid defensive lineman in the history of football: Signed Hall of Famer Reggie White to a 5 year, 4 million dollar deal. Point? That was then; this is now. No fledgling league will ever be able to spend like that again and survive even one season. Vince McMahon has reportedly set aside $100 million to restart the XFL. As we speak, Aaron Donald, alone, is scheduled to make more than that -- 7yrs, $143 million. No way they could ever sign Trevor and he'd be a fool to take it (if they did), knowing he'd get nothing when the league folds and would be subjecting himself to injury in such a bush league, several steps below what the USFL was.

Best thing for Trevor is to sit down with Dabo Swinney and figure out a plan for the next two seasons. First step is take out a multi-million dollar insurance policy in case of a career ending injury. Also, Trevor might have to stop running as much in games. Dabo might also need to run the ball more with his running backs and get a second competent quarterback who could take over games when Clemson takes 17 (plus) point leads against very beatable opponents. In essence, you'd be intentionally cutting his playing time significantly to avoid injury.


As far as A.J. Ouellette, he was recently in Texas, trying to impress pro scouts at the College Gridiron Showcase (I linked CGS rosters Sunday), along with dozens of other white prospects who probably project as 7th rounders to UDFA's. Hopefully he fared well and will get a late invite to an All-Star game. But check this recent video of him working out*. He's totally jacked! Will that powerful build help him as power rushing tailback, like it clearly did for a recently transformed Zach Zenner last fall? Or will it make it even more likely he's Caste as a "blocking back" at the next level? One potential positive is his height: Ouellette's listed at 5'9", which is short for a "blocking stooge". Most are in the 6'1" area (plus minus two inches)?


* https://abc22now.com/sports/content/nfl-dreams-hope-to-be-on-horizon-for-aj-ouellette

I remember the USFL and the average player was something similar to CFL level players.

I remember when the CFL signed Tamarick Vanover who left Florida St. early because of off the field issues. He signed something like a 1 year 600K US deal which was huge money for a CFL player but not super star money in the NFL. At the time the CFL used to sign one player that the didn't count against the salary cap and he could be signed for 1 million a year Canadian, Doug Flutie signed a contract like this with Calgary. I don't think the exempted player's salary has gone above this level yet top or even marginal NFL salaries have spiraled past this level of pay.

Like you stated a prospect who still had ambition to make the NFL would love to make a highlight reel borderline Chuck Cecil heat seeking missile hit on Lawrence and it could jeopardize his much more valuable NFL career. Also what happens if the bubble bursts and Lawrence is signed to a 1-15 type club and he doesn't light up one of the minor leagues and he takes a draft hit and falls from a lock first pick to middle first round pick? Not the same level prospect but Johnny Football has been only competent in the CFL, not lights out and that doesn't wow NFL scouts.

 

[Truthteller]

Kyler Murray is also half-Korean. This may explain why he's not a complete idiot and can actually read defenses (albeit college ones) very well.

Tannehill, that might also explain Kyler's slight frame. I don't remember Murray Sr. as a quarterback at Texas A&M, but he was and is taller than his son. I do remember, albeit slightly, his uncle Calvin Murray, who was considered a Major League Baseball "super-prospect" during the 1990's. He was much bigger, almost Bo Jackson-like (taller and thicker). Kyler is just different. I'd be surprised if he measured at 5'10".

Leonardfan, I agree about Oullette. I wonder if, due to his size, he isn't destined to be another Nate Eachus*, who was deemed too slow for tailback; too small for "blocking fullback"? Best case scenario is he's considered a Danny Woodhead type. But he'll need to show great speed and hands in workouts. He'll also need to find a team that gives him a real shot. That will be the toughest part....Peyton wasn't the athlete Trevor was. Not even close. Could've left after his junior year and gone first but stayed in, reportedly, too avoid going to the Jets, who had Neil O'Donnell starting for them and were in total disarray. Gang Green DWF's hated O'Donnell and most are still frothing at the mouth mad about Peyton shunning Bill Parcells. Jets, crestfallen over the Peyton "snub" traded away the #1 overall and got destroyed: Rams got Hall of Fame tackle Orlando Pace; Parcell's got a crap package, led by a mediocre mulatto linebacker from The University of Virginia he coveted.

WIR, great point regarding the Chuck Cecil wannabe's going after Trevor. That's what Craig James said about playing in the USFL. He made quick money jumping to the fledgling league, but he paid a heavy price. He got so beat up by the "truck drivers" (his words) that it probably cost him a much longer NFL career. He had the 1,000 yard year in 1985 for the Patriots, but he was totally done by the age of 27 because of injuries....I've read a lot about the USFL in recent months and even watched some You Tube vids to refresh my memory. A significant percentage of the players in the USFL were similar to today's CFL "Imports". But a lot teams were loaded with tremendous prospects. For example, not only did the Memphis Showboats have Reggie White, they had two rookie cornerbacks that were top 10 NFL picks. Also, in 1984 the 18 team league signed at least seven NFL first round caliber tailbacks (and a lot more 2 to 4th round types). No new league will ever accumulate that much talent again. No way! I'm sure Trevor is smart enough to realize this and will not want any part of any new "Bush League".

WIR, I believe the last player the CFL really "stole away" from the NFL was Raghib "Rocket" Ismail. He was seen as the likely #1 overall pick in 1991, but lured to Toronto with a huge deal from an ownership group that included Wayne Gretzky. After that, they have signed big names the NFL didn't really want like Flutie, Vanover (during U.S. expansion era), Manziel and don't forget Ricky Williams, while he was serving a NFL drug suspension.


****
As far as the Kyler Murray going #1 overall rumor, below seems to be it's origins. Take note the writer (Wilson) appears to be a very nerdy mulatto, who's one round mock drafts tend to exclude as many whites as possible, compared to CBS' other mock drafters.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...h-no-1-pick-and-then-try-to-trade-josh-rosen/


Also, Wilson's early "sources" are ESPN's longtime Social Justice Warriors Adam Schefter and Mike Greenberg. Big surprise, a pair of Marxist, Jewish media Caste-whores hyping up Murray, on a unwatchable morning TV show that gets hammered in the ratings by Nickelodeon's Peppa the Pig?**

Ironic thing, is they are throwing fellow Lonsman Rosentein under the bus in order to inflate Murray? Abner is a very rare Jewish NFL franchise quarterback prospect and they want to push him out after one season? Talk about Treasonous? These two jokers make Pete Carroll seem like a "mild cuck"! I mean, who was the last real prominent Jewish quarterback, Sid Luckman, who's career ended like 75 years ago?

No way Abner gets pushed out by Murray. Haskins, that could be a different story?


* http://www.nfl.com/player/nateeachus/2535982/gamelogs
** https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/espns-wokecenter-debuts-worst-ratings-ever/

 

[white is right]

Tannehill, that might also explain Kyler's slight frame. I don't remember Murray Sr. as a quarterback at Texas A&M, but he was and is taller than his son. I do remember, albeit slightly, his uncle Calvin Murray, who was considered a Major League Baseball "super-prospect" during the 1990's. He was much bigger, almost Bo Jackson-like (taller and thicker). Kyler is just different. I'd be surprised if he measured at 5'10".

Leonardfan, I agree about Oullette. I wonder if, due to his size, he isn't destined to be another Nate Eachus*, who was deemed too slow for tailback; too small for "blocking fullback"? Best case scenario is he's considered a Danny Woodhead type. But he'll need to show great speed and hands in workouts. He'll also need to find a team that gives him a real shot. That will be the toughest part....Peyton wasn't the athlete Trevor was. Not even close. Could've left after his junior year and gone first but stayed in, reportedly, too avoid going to the Jets, who had Neil O'Donnell starting for them and were in total disarray. Gang Green DWF's hated O'Donnell and most are still frothing at the mouth mad about Peyton shunning Bill Parcells. Jets, crestfallen over the Peyton "snub" traded away the #1 overall and got destroyed: Rams got Hall of Fame tackle Orlando Pace; Parcell's got a crap package, led by a mediocre mulatto linebacker from The University of Virginia he coveted.

WIR, great point regarding the Chuck Cecil wannabe's going after Trevor. That's what Craig James said about playing in the USFL. He made quick money jumping to the fledgling league, but he paid a heavy price. He got so beat up by the "truck drivers" (his words) that it probably cost him a much longer NFL career. He had the 1,000 yard year in 1985 for the Patriots, but he was totally done by the age of 27 because of injuries....I've read a lot about the USFL in recent months and even watched some You Tube vids to refresh my memory. A significant percentage of the players in the USFL were similar to today's CFL "Imports". But a lot teams were loaded with tremendous prospects. For example, not only did the Memphis Showboats have Reggie White, they had two rookie cornerbacks that were top 10 NFL picks. Also, in 1984 the 18 team league signed at least seven NFL first round caliber tailbacks (and a lot more 2 to 4th round types). No new league will ever accumulate that much talent again. No way! I'm sure Trevor is smart enough to realize this and will not want any part of any new "Bush League".

WIR, I believe the last player the CFL really "stole away" from the NFL was Ragib "Rocket" Ismail. He was seen as the likely #1 overall pick in 1991, but lured to Toronto with a huge deal from an ownership group that included Wayne Gretzky. After that, they have signed big names the NFL didn't really want like Flutie, Vanover (during U.S. expansion era), Manziel and don't forget Ricky Williams, while he was serving a NFL drug suspension.


****
As far as the Kyler Murray going #1 overall rumor, below seems to be it's origins. Take note the writer (Wilson) appears to be a very nerdy mulatto, who's one round mock drafts tend to exclude as many whites as possible, compared to CBS' other mock drafters.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...h-no-1-pick-and-then-try-to-trade-josh-rosen/


Also, Wilson's early "sources" are ESPN's longtime Social Justice Warriors Adam Schefter and Mike Greenberg. Big surprise, a pair of Marxist, Jewish media Caste-whores hyping up Murray, on a unwatchable morning TV show that gets hammered in the ratings by Nickelodeon's Peppa the Pig?**

Ironic thing, is they are throwing fellow Lonsman Rosentein under the bus in order to inflate Murray? Abner is a very rare Jewish NFL franchise quarterback prospect and they want to push him out after one season? Talk about Treasonous? These two jokers make Pete Carroll seem like a "mild cuck"! I mean, who was the last real prominent Jewish quarterback, Sid Luckman, who's career ended like 75 years ago?

No way Abner gets pushed out by Murray. Haskins, that could be a different story?


* http://www.nfl.com/player/nateeachus/2535982/gamelogs
** https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/espns-wokecenter-debuts-worst-ratings-ever/

Yes Ishmael was "stolen" by the Argo ownership group that also included the late John Candy and convicted fraud artist Bruce McNall. He was paid about double the Flutie salary which was double what top picks made back in the early 90's.

The financial mess that was byproduct of this deal and the subsequent bleeding of money probably helped caused the premature death of the portly Candy who was a former Toronto area high school lineman.

The reason why I compared Vanover and not the Rocket deal to a potential Lawrence deal is because the CFL wouldn't be competing with the NFL because of the 3 years removed from high school clause for NFL prospects. The CFL has never cared about that as former high school kickers and punters have been signed by the league.

I think if Lawrence was to sign with another league it would have to be a league that was owned by a series of deep pocketed billionaires that wouldn't care about bleeding money to compete with the NFL. As the current football landscape stands all other leagues are budget leagues where top league salaries will at best be veteran minimum levels. That will sign perpetual bubble players like Josh Johnson or Dirty Sanchez but nothing more than that at the qb position.

PS, I forgot even with that dream type scenario good luck in getting your whole contract as Steve Young has stated numerous times he never got more than the years he played in the USFL in his at the time historic 45 million for 45 years??(I could be off by a few years and few million). Doug Flutie has stated similar to his contract with Calgary as the bulk of it was a personal services contract which the owner terminated once Doug was traded to Toronto.

 

[Truthteller]

Also what happens if the bubble bursts and Lawrence is signed to a 1-15 type club and he doesn't light up one of the minor leagues and he takes a draft hit and falls from a lock first pick to middle first round pick? Not the same level prospect but Johnny Football has been only competent in the CFL, not lights out and that doesn't wow NFL scouts.

WIR, the aforementioned Raghib Ismail was a clear cut example of a super-hyped player that did not live up to his hype in a rival league, or the NFL. Marcus Dupree (ESPN 30 for 30 fame) is an even more glaring example of a "stud prospect" falling on his face in a rival league (USFL). Same thing could happen to the Clemson quarterback. Reason I went with the XFL (not the CFL) is because I seriously doubt the Canadian League would ever think about it. They some partnerships (officiating, concussion studies, ect.) with the NFL and I doubt they'd jeopardize it over a teenager who is likely not ready for the rigors of the CFL (18 games) and the cold weather at the end of the CFL season, not to mention being alone in a new country. Also, didn't the NFL help bail out the CFL several years back when they had significant financial woes?

The reason why I compared Vanover and not the Rocket deal to a potential Lawrence deal is because the CFL wouldn't be competing with the NFL because of the 3 years removed from high school clause for NFL prospects. The CFL has never cared about that as former high school kickers and punters have been signed by the league.

I think if Lawrence was to sign with another league it would have to be a league that was owned by a series of deep pocketed billionaires that wouldn't care about bleeding money to compete with the NFL. As the current football landscape stands all other leagues are budget leagues where top league salaries will at best be veteran minimum levels. That will sign perpetual bubble players like Josh Johnson or Dirty Sanchez but nothing more than that at the qb position.

Yes, that's a good point. Looking at Ismail's stats, he was very impactful as a rookie in Toronto in 1991, then faded considerably in his second season up North. Played in the NFL for 9 seasons. First six, he wasn't that special. Did turn things around a bit and sneak over the 1,000 mark receiving twice at the end of career. Also, seen as a dynamic return specialist, Ismail never returned a kick or punt for a TD in the NFL. That's shocking, considering the hype he received as a return specialist....Conversely, Vanover's NFL stats as a return specialist are fantastic. He was (as a return specialist) what Ismail was expected to be in the NFL.

I forgot even with that dream type scenario good luck in getting your whole contract....Doug Flutie has stated similar to his contract with Calgary as the bulk of it was a personal services contract which the owner terminated once Doug was traded to Toronto.

Flutie also had a personal services contract in the USFL. I can't find any past media story that explains how that worked out. But you are correct, contracts mean nothing if leagues fold or owners simply can't afford to pay them. Glad you brought up Flutie in the NFL Draft thread. Why?

Is there any quarterback in the modern era that Kyler Murray resembles more (as a prospect) than Doug Flutie? Some might suggest Russell Wilson due to racial features, but size wise, game-wise and Heisman hype/fame Murray's Doug Flutie 2.0. Looking up articles from the mid-80's, it appears the caste media (even then) went out out of their way to tear down Flutie as a NFL prospect due to his size. I believe Fat Bill Parcells famously said the USFL did the NFL a huge favor signing Flutie, because he'd never live up to the hype due to being 5'8". Unlike the current caste-media which is doing all they can to prop-up Murray as a first rounder. My guess is Flutie had a better arm and might've been a better "athlete" than Murray. When Flutie was a senior at B.C., the Eagles made the Final Four in basketball. Many have said Flutie could've been their starting point guard, if he had choose that sport.

 

[white is right]

WIR, the aforementioned Raghib Ismail was a clear cut example of a super-hyped player that did not live up to his hype in a rival league, or the NFL. Marcus Dupree (ESPN 30 for 30 fame) is an even more glaring example of a "stud prospect" falling on his face in a rival league (USFL). Same thing could happen to the Clemson quarterback. Reason I went with the XFL (not the CFL) is because I seriously doubt the Canadian League would ever think about it. They some partnerships (officiating, concussion studies, ect.) with the NFL and I doubt they'd jeopardize it over a teenager who is likely not ready for the rigors of the CFL (18 games) and the cold weather at the end of the CFL season, not to mention being alone in a new country. Also, didn't the NFL help bail out the CFL several years back when they had significant financial woes?




Yes, that's a good point. Looking at Ismail's stats, he was very impactful as a rookie in Toronto in 1991, then faded considerably in his second season up North. Played in the NFL for 9 seasons. First six, he wasn't that special. Did turn things around a bit and sneak over the 1,000 mark receiving twice at the end of career. Also, seen as a dynamic return specialist, Ismail never returned a kick or punt for a TD in the NFL. That's shocking, considering the hype he received as a return specialist....Conversely, Vanover's NFL stats as a return specialist are fantastic. He was (as a return specialist) what Ismail was expected to be in the NFL.




Flutie also had a personal services contract in the USFL. I can't find any past media story that explains how that worked out. But you are correct, contracts mean nothing if leagues fold or owners simply can't afford to pay them. Glad you brought up Flutie in the NFL Draft thread. Why?

Is there any quarterback in the modern era that Kyler Murray resembles more (as a prospect) than Doug Flutie? Some might suggest Russell Wilson due to racial features, but size wise, game-wise and Heisman hype/fame Murray's Doug Flutie 2.0. Looking up articles from the mid-80's, it appears the caste media (even then) went out out of their way to tear down Flutie as a NFL prospect due to his size. I believe Fat Bill Parcells famously said the USFL did the NFL a huge favor signing Flutie, because he'd never live up to the hype due to being 5'8". Unlike the current caste-media which is doing all they can to prop-up Murray as a first rounder. My guess is Flutie had a better arm and might've been a better "athlete" than Murray. When Flutie was a senior at B.C., the Eagles made the Final Four in basketball. Many have said Flutie could've been their starting point guard, if he had choose that sport.

Yes the NFL has an informal non compete clause with CFL when it comes to contracts. So if a star CFL player lights up the league the NFL won't poach the player until his contract is up.

I can't remember the details but the NFL did give money to pay off the debts of a few bankrupt franchise to work out the this formal agreement, which is similar to a free trade deal with the US and Mexico....

Yes Flutie was a very underrated athlete as I could easily see him playing wide receiver as his brother did for a cup of coffee in the NFL and having a hall of fame career in the CFL. He also might have been able to have been a 1980's size tailback in the USFL as he had decent wiggle and his lack of weight would have been less of an issue as the NFL and the other pro leagues still had a few 190 pound tailbacks who toted the rock ie Joe Morris.

 

[Leonardfan]

Just saw that black quarterback from Buffalo get an undeserving invite to the Senior Bowl. NFL doing their best to saturate the league with mediocre black quarterbacks. Pisses me off to no end.

 

[Leonardfan]

129 underclassmen have declared so far - it's a new record - most are obviously affletes with tremendous upside to litter rosters.

No Patrick Laird or AJ Oullette invited to the NFLPA collegiate bowl either. After very productive careers they have both been shutout of any of the pre-draft all star games. Nick Fitzgerald is also absent from any of these rosters as well.

 

[Shadowlight]

Today is the last day for underclassmen to declare so we will know about players like S Tanner Muse by the end of the day.

Already tired of hearing about so called multi sport star Kyler Murray. Some ******* "expert" this morning said scouts have him projected as a Mookie Betts type of all star player. It as almost as if there are people behind the scenes making damn sure he gets the highest and most lucrative football deal as they "play" up and use as leverage his baseball talents which in reality seem to be grounded in make believe.

Meanwhile TE TJ Hockenson has declared. Ranked as the 5th best TE according to some "experts." Shove it up their asses. I have him rated as the best TE in the draft and better than his overrated underwear Olympics teammate Noah Fant, who is more of a glorified big WR. See the Giants underwhelming puss basket TE Evan Engram as a comparison.

 

[Bucky]

What's the verdict on Muse? I'd say 50/50 chance he comes back.

Good news about Hockenson! Athletic and well rounded TE. Helps brighten up another overhyped afflete class of TEs.

 

[Shadowlight]

Yes Muse is waiting until the last moment.

A reminder the NFLPA and East West Shrine bowls are on this Saturday. As much as I gobble up sports I must admit I have trouble watching 'all star" events but I will try and keep tabs.

The NFLPA has a few players of interest most notably WR Flynn Nagel but the East West game has much better rosters and is considered the higher rated prospect bowl. The only reason Troy Apke emerged form the NFLPA last year was because he did everything in a spectacular way. The most highly rated Senior Bowl is the following Saturday.

For the East WR Jesper Horsted, S Chris Johnson and NC LB Cole Holcomb.

The West is more loaded. WR Cody Thompson is the headliner here to go along with TE Andrew Beck, QB Easton Stick, LBs Cody Barton and Joe Dineen. Also S Andrew Wingard.

Most intriguing prospect? WR Brady Oliver a tall rangy 4.48 runner out of Colorado Mines (?) or something to that effect. I didn't bother to look back but I am sure CF member 22 mentioned Oliver at some point(s) during the season.

Also a DL from Canada Joel Van Pelt.

Still it is a travesty that the two top white RBs (see above) weren't invited to any all star bowl games. And the NFL is avoiding WR Scott Miller like the plague. And WR/KR/PR Michael Walker too. Is there a limit on how many fast and dynamic white skill players are allowed in the NFL? It seems so doesn't it.

 

[white is right]

It's official Murray is declaring for the NFL drafthttp://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/13950/kyler-murray.


I can't help but feeling like this is going to happen at the NFL first round gala.....

 

[Shadowlight]

The devil is in the details concerning munchkin man. As the media plays out the black superman theme "look he can be a star MLB CF or a star NFL QB" his NFL announcement is not official. He has three full days to back out and by sometime Thursday we will know for sure.

As a betting man I am guessing he sticks with football. Deion Sanders said he should play baseball.

To me we are looking at a peaked athlete who has nowhere to go but down. If he chooses the NFL we will be force fed him for a while until it becomes blindingly obvious he can't play QB at the next level.

Try baseball? It isn't clear he would ever see a pitch at the MLB level. Again I don't think he has what it takes to play at the MLB level. The skill level is much more intricate for baseball.

The "agents" involved I think are in cahoots. This new black superman media hero is milking it for all it is worth.

 

[Shadowlight]

Murray is the typical black media hound" look at me I am superior to you lame white folk" athlete which is why I think he will choose football. The rewards are quicker and the media spotlight will be 10 times stronger.

Imagine this dude riding buses to minor league baseball games trying to learn the intricacies of baseball. Baseball is one of those sports like tennis and golf that relies on top level specialized talent that takes time to develop. It is exceedingly difficult. The gulf between the skill level of NFL players to baseball players is very wide.

If Murray chooses baseball imagine if he never gets out of the minor league swamp as he fights off prolonged slumps and long fast food filled trips to dusty out of the way towns and half filled ball parks. Ha. That would be fitting.

As I say he might make a nifty punt returner in the NFL but if I was drafting a PR I would choose Michael Walker. I wouldn't draft this media hound.

Oakland don't want to waste such a high draft pick ( they have to eat the money) so they are doing everything to save face. Only an ******* baseball team would draft this arrogant prick so whatever happens I hope the Oakland A's get sizzled alive by either him picking football or him dying a nice slow death in the minor leagues.

Below is an SI article on the pros and cons of each sport.

https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/01/14/kyler-murray-decision-baseball-football-nfl

 

[white is right]

The devil is in the details concerning munchkin man. As the media plays out the black superman theme "look he can be a star MLB CF or a star NFL QB" his NFL announcement is not official. He has three full days to back out and by sometime Thursday we will know for sure.

As a betting man I am guessing he sticks with football. Deion Sanders said he should play baseball.

To me we are looking at a peaked athlete who has nowhere to go but down. If he chooses the NFL we will be force fed him for a while until it becomes blindingly obvious he can't play QB at the next level.

Try baseball? It isn't clear he would ever see a pitch at the MLB level. Again I don't think he has what it takes to play at the MLB level. The skill level is much more intricate for baseball.

The "agents" involved I think are in cahoots. This new black superman media hero is milking it for all it is worth.

The latest figures I heard bandied around talk radio is Murray and his agent want an astronomical sum of 15million for a signing bonus to try and make it to the majors. He could bolt after a few years of hitting .250 or less.

PS. Aren't the A's a broke money ball team ? Hardcore money ball teams trade away their first round picks for multiple 2nd and later picks as first round talent is very overrated because of the skill jump from high school ball to even the low minors.

I remember seeing in the papers Rob Butler who hit a crazy .650 in Toronto high school ball. He was a sub .250 hitter at the MLB level with minimal power, but decent speed and defense. He washed out of MLB ball after a few years.

 

[Heretic]

TJ Hockenson being Kiper's "5th best available TE" is pure Caste. He won the Mackey Award which rewards the best TE in the nation and outproduced Kiper's overall number one TE pick, Fant, who played on the same team. I didn't really want to see him go, but you have to strike while the iron is hot.

 

[Leonardfan]

The Murray hype is beyond laughable. It's just another chapter in the black quarterback book with what will end up being the same result. There is no negative trait that he has according to the media. Under 6 ft? Not a problem. Under 5'10" - not a problem. Probably around 5'8" - not a problem. Under 200 lbs? Not a problem. Slight frame? Not a problem. Issues with footwork/fundamentals/arm strength / accuracy - not a problem. Only one year of starting experience - not a problem. Played in a simplistic offense - not a problem. Played in a defense optional conference - not a problem. He is the new normal of black privilege and blackening of the QB position. According to Tim Hasslebeck the NFL is changing the way it evaluates QBs - not really - they have been drafting black QBs in high numbers since 1999.

I personally wished Hockenson stayed at Iowa. He is the best TE in the draft - much better than Fant or any other black TE but what else can he really do after winning the Mackey. I also saw Alabama OT Jonah Williams declare and I have already seen the projections of moving the dominant left tackle in the supposed best conference into guard - I think all of us here could of seen that coming.