Week 10 2009

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,620
Location
Pennsylvania
Caldwell is a system coach who stepped into a situation that has been a smooth running machine for a long time. The Colts are made by GM Bill Polian, who consistently drafts well, offensive coordinator (now semi-retired) Tom Moore, and of course Peyton Manning. Black writer Jason Whitlock noted last yearhow the Colts (and Patriots) know how to surround their superstar quarterback with the right kind of personnel in order for him to thrive. All Caldwell has to do is not mess with the system; he's a company man who is being rewarded for his years of service. It was pretty much the same with St. Tony Dungy; don't rock the boat, and let Peyton Manning do his thing. Pretty basic formula for year in and year out success.
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,620
Location
Pennsylvania
GWTJ said:
Anyone notice that whenever the scores were updated by a James Brown or Chris Berman type, the Titans-Bills score was also prefaced with a Vince Young comment. Every announcer qualified his statement with a comment like, '"The Titans, now 3-0 with Vince Young as the QB, beat the Bills". I did not hear any announcer not do it, on any channel. The script went out to every media person on the planet.
smiley5.gif

During last week's Tennessee game, the play-by-play announcer's White sidekick in the booth at one point announced after he completed a pass that Young had become "the master of his domain."
smiley36.gif


The bounce from Vince "All He Do is Win" Young was predictable. It often happens with the onset of a black QB or black coach. The black dominated players are happy and, as Larry Johnson admitted when it comes to black coaches, play harder for a while.

Young is a terrible quarterback but the Titans have some talent. They might be an 8-8 team again for a while, as they were with (in spite of) Young his first couple of years in the league. Long term no one in their right mind would want someone who scored a 9 on the Wonderlic as their quarterback. But then again, in a league filled with defensive players with low Wonderlic scores and dubious fundamentals and commitment levels to covering and tackling, maybe Vince will become a star.Edited by: Don Wassall
 

James

Newbie
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
79
Location
California
Manning, Clark, Collie and Anthony Gonzalez will help keep Caldwell in the head coach's position for quite a while. Plus Reggie Wayne is currently the leading receiver in the NFL in catches and touchdowns and he's second to Randy Moss in receiving yards.
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,620
Location
Pennsylvania
From what I can gather so far, Belichick isn't being piled on like I thought would happen given that he is widely disliked by the Caste media and DWFs for being "arrogant" and having open disdain for the almighty media. The local paper carried a piece saying the 4th and 2 gamble was "genius" and the hosts of the local ESPN show were also very supportive, and claimed that Colin Cowturd or whatever his name is also thought Belichick made the right call. Their jist, which I agree with, was that the call wasn't out of disrespect to the Colts defense or his own defense, it was out of respect for Peyton Manning. If the play had worked it would have added to Belichick's legend. And it may have worked as the spot was dubious. Belichick's mistake was in using up New England's timeouts so that he couldn't challenge the spot.

I've believed for a long time that Peyton Manning is the best football player ever. He is the NFL's Babe Ruth and Wayne Gretzky. His mastery of his position is without peer.
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
2,988
Don Wassall said:
From what I can gather so far, Belichick isn't being piled on like I thought would happen given that he is widely disliked by the Caste media and DWFs for being "arrogant" and having open disdain for the almighty media.  The local paper carried a piece saying the 4th and 2 gamble was "genius" and the hosts of the local ESPN show were also very supportive, and claimed that Colin Cowturd or whatever his name is also thought Belichick made the right call.  Their jist, which I agree with, was that the call wasn't out of disrespect to the Colts defense or his own defense, it was out of respect for Peyton Manning.  If the play had worked it would have added to Belichick's legend.  And it may have worked as the spot was dubious.  Belichick's mistake was in using up New England's timeouts so that he couldn't challenge the spot.
<div> </div>
<div>I've believed for a long time that Peyton Manning is the best football player ever.  He is the NFL's Babe Ruth and Wayne Gretzky.  His mastery of his position is without peer.  </div>

I've watched NFL QB's on TV since 1958 and Peyton Manning is the most skilled QB I have ever seen and QB is by far the most important position in America's major sport. During the end-of-century retrospectives, Jim Brown was named the best football player ever on the grounds that he was better at his position than any other player was at their position. Peyton Manning, in my opinion, has surpassed Brown in that regard. A great quarterback is always more important to a team than a great runner.
 

DixieDestroyer

Hall of Famer
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
9,464
Location
Dixieland
I don't know that I could say Manning's better than Montana, Unitas & Marino just yet...but he's very quickly closing in. He's definitely the best QB in the NFL now (hands down).
 
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
212
Location
Outside North America
DixieDestroyer said:
I don't know that I could say Manning's better than Montana, Unitas & Marino just yet...but he's very quickly closing in. He's definitely the best QB in the NFL now (hands down).
He's Top 3 or Top 5 All-Time! The dude is an IRONMAN! He's never missed a single NFL game as of now. The John Stockton of the NFL!

Definitely one of the Greatest QB's ever! Thank God, he's white!!
 

whiteathlete33

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Messages
12,669
Location
New Jersey
DixieDestroyer said:
I don't know that I could say Manning's better than Montana, Unitas &amp; Marino just yet...but he's very quickly closing in. He's definitely the best QB in the NFL now (hands down).

Well everyone has their own opinion Dixie. Steve Young is the best qb ever!
 

Bart

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
4,329
Don Wassall said:
From what I can gather so far, Belichick isn't being piled on like I thought would happen given that he is widely disliked by the Caste media and DWFs for being "arrogant" and having open disdain for the almighty media...If the play had worked it would have added to Belichick's legend. 
  </div>

Don, I have to disagree with you on this one. The risk to reward ratio on that play was frightening.At that juncture of the game and that field position? Was he thinking they were going the other way? I've been supportive of BB, but he cost them the game. It was just stupid.
 

Bear Backer

Mentor
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
658
Location
Illinois
whiteathlete33 said:
DixieDestroyer said:
I don't know that I could say Manning's better than Montana, Unitas & Marino just yet...but he's very quickly closing in. He's definitely the best QB in the NFL now (hands down).
<div></div>
<div>Well everyone has their own opinion Dixie.   Steve Young is the best qb ever!</div>

I think he is definitely better than Marino.

If I were rating best QB's of my lifetime it would be

1. Montana
2. Manning
3. Marino
4. Brady
5. Young
6. Drew Brees Honorable Mention. I really believe that Drew Brees has quietly become one of the best QB's in my lifetime.
 

ToughJ.Riggins

Hall of Famer
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
5,063
Location
Ontario Canada
Fightingtowin said:
kre08 said:
This is a pretty enjoyable game to watch. Between Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Wes Welker, Dallas Clark, Austin Collie, and Julian Edelman we have plenty of our guys to keep an eye on. Heck, there's even a whiteish tailback in Donald Brown.
donald-brown.jpg

I'd say Brown has more white than black in him, but of course, it's the blackness that allows him to be a RB. (sarcasm)

I'm a fan of Donald Brown. He went to Red Bank Catholic near where I used to live in Jersey. He's a devout Catholic. When a Red Bank Catholic student recently was diagnosed with terminal cancer (this kid was a big Colts' fan), Brown paid to have the kid and his family flown in to Indianapolis to meet Peyton Manning and all the Colts stars. He's a class act! But I wonder if he would he have the courage to speak out about the artificial coal black domination at RB in the NFL as a mulatto? He'd be the perfect person to ask the question of why every RB in the NFL is black- if he is aware enough to wonder.
 
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
462
ToughJ.Riggins said:
Fightingtowin said:
kre08 said:
This is a pretty enjoyable game to watch. Between Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Wes Welker, Dallas Clark, Austin Collie, and Julian Edelman we have plenty of our guys to keep an eye on. Heck, there's even a whiteish tailback in Donald Brown.
donald-brown.jpg

I'd say Brown has more white than black in him, but of course, it's the blackness that allows him to be a RB. (sarcasm)

I'm a fan of Donald Brown. He went to Red Bank Catholic near where I used to live in Jersey. He's a devout Catholic. When a Red Bank Catholic student recently was diagnosed with terminal cancer (this kid was a big Colts' fan), Brown paid to have the kid and his family flown in to Indianapolis to meet Peyton Manning and all the Colts stars. He's a class act! But I wonder if he would he have the courage to speak out about the artificial coal black domination at RB in the NFL as a mulatto? He'd be the perfect person to ask the question of why every RB in the NFL is black- if he is aware enough to wonder.
I'd give that about a .1% chance sadly. That would be a huge risk for him, especially when it's not effecting him. I think a lot people will ask the question in regards to Toby next year though, although most fans will simply regard him as an anomaly. I think a NE and Colts AFC championship game will get people asking questions because of all the white wide receivers, especially if Gonzo is back.
 

ToughJ.Riggins

Hall of Famer
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
5,063
Location
Ontario Canada
Bear Backer said:
whiteathlete33 said:
DixieDestroyer said:
I don't know that I could say Manning's better than Montana, Unitas & Marino just yet...but he's very quickly closing in. He's definitely the best QB in the NFL now (hands down).
<div></div>
<div>Well everyone has their own opinion Dixie.   Steve Young is the best qb ever!</div>

I think he is definitely better than Marino.

If I were rating best QB's of my lifetime it would be

1. Montana
2. Manning
3. Marino
4. Brady
5. Young
6. Drew Brees Honorable Mention. I really believe that Drew Brees has quietly become one of the best QB's in my lifetime.

This is how I'd rank the GOAT (I'm probably a bit biased toward more recent guys though, as I'm only 29 y.o):
1. Montana
2. Manning (Eli..jk)(Should become #1 before long)
3. Brady (Should become #2 before long)
4. Elway
5. Favre
Honorable mention (in no particular order):
Brees, Warner (he's revived his career), Young (would be higher if he'd played longer..he did have amazing receivers however), Marino, Bradshaw, Tarkenton, Starr

Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,620
Location
Pennsylvania
The Ravens are lining up 4 Whites at times (out of 5 players) on the line -- Gregg, Bannan, Johnson and rookie Paul Kruger,drafted in the second round this year. I think this is Kruger's first substantial game action.
 

Thrashen

Hall of Famer
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
5,706
Location
Pennsylvania
Brown was simply awesome at UCONN. After Toby Gerhart, he was the best back in college football last season. The Colts should stop p*ssyfooting around and make him the starter over the always wimpy bust, Joseph Addai.

Brown runs hard and makes quick, decisive cuts. He is a less powerful, less athletic version of Toby Gerhart. The difference, naturally, is that Brown's small african ancestry will allow for all of his athletic dreams to come true. Gerhart? No, we can't have young white kids looking up to an athletic white man.

They might [gasp], want to grow up to be just like him instead of their predetermined racial birthright of sitting drunk in the stands, holding a beer and eating a $20 hotdog.
 

white is right

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
10,182
Don Wassall said:
GWTJ said:
Anyone notice that whenever the scores were updated by a James Brown or Chris Berman type, the Titans-Bills score was also prefaced with a Vince Young comment. Every announcer qualified his statement with a comment like, '"The Titans, now 3-0 with Vince Young as the QB, beat the Bills". I did not hear any announcer not do it, on any channel. The script went out to every media person on the planet.
smiley5.gif
<div> </div>
<div>During last week's Tennessee game, the play-by-play announcer's White sidekick in the booth at one point announced after he completed a pass that Young had become "the master of his domain." 
smiley36.gif
  </div>
<div> </div>
<div>The bounce from Vince "All He Do is Win" Young was predictable.  It often happens with the onset of a black QB or black coach.  The black dominated players are happy and, as Larry Johnson admitted when it comes to black coaches, play harder for a while. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Young is a terrible quarterback but the Titans have some talent.  They might be an 8-8 team again for a while, as they were with (in spite of) Young his first couple of years in the league.  Long term no one in their right mind would want someone who scored a 9 on the Wonderlic as their quarterback.  But then again, in a league filled with defensive players with low Wonderlic scores and dubious fundamentals and commitment levels to covering and tackling, maybe Vince will become a star.</div>
I swear he reminds me of 35+ year old second stringer. He doesn't do anything right beyond passes to the tight end. How he is winning is a mystery to me. One thing that might be the reason is ball control as he essentially a second tailback when he is on the field and teams have to respect his ability to scramble and run for a first down.
 

Leonardfan

Hall of Famer
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
24,635
Wathcing the Browns offense is painful. The play calling sucks, I don't know if Quinn has a shot to succeed in Cleveland. The two passes that were intercepted were both tipped, one by Royal and the other by Furrey. Most play calls were short passes, screens etc. Cleveland has no chance if they do not open the offense up. Hopefully Quinn starts the rest of the year and can go through his growing pains.
 

Bear Backer

Mentor
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
658
Location
Illinois
ToughJ.Riggins said:
Bear Backer said:
whiteathlete33 said:
DixieDestroyer said:
I don't know that I could say Manning's better than Montana, Unitas & Marino just yet...but he's very quickly closing in. He's definitely the best QB in the NFL now (hands down).
<div></div>
<div>Well everyone has their own opinion Dixie.   Steve Young is the best qb ever!</div>

I think he is definitely better than Marino.

If I were rating best QB's of my lifetime it would be

1. Montana
2. Manning
3. Marino
4. Brady
5. Young
6. Drew Brees Honorable Mention. I really believe that Drew Brees has quietly become one of the best QB's in my lifetime.

This is how I'd rank the GOAT (I'm probably a bit biased toward more recent guys though, as I'm only 29 y.o):
1. Montana
2. Manning (Eli..jk)(Should become #1 before long)
3. Brady (Should become #2 before long)
4. Favre
5. Marino
Honorable mention (in no particular order):
Brees, Warner (he's revived his career), Young (would be higher if he'd played longer..he did have amazing receivers however), Bradshaw, Tarkenton

I completely forgot about old Man Favre. Adding him to the list I would probably have to go with

1. Montana
2. Manning
3. Favre
4. Marino
5. Brady

Young gets bumped down to honorable mention. Like you also mentioned, Brady has to be moving up the list very soon. The only reason I probably wouldn't rate him higher than Marino is I believe Marino had more natural talent than Brady and less to work with. Brady is undoubtedly the smarter of the two, and even though I hate to use the overused caste term "game manager" He is much better in that regard than Marino was. For Favre to be playing like he is at his age, on his third team in three years is pretty amazing stuff.
 

Borussia

Guru
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
231
Location
Florida
Bear Backer said:
whiteathlete33 said:
DixieDestroyer said:
I don't know that I could say Manning's better than Montana, Unitas & Marino just yet...but he's very quickly closing in. He's definitely the best QB in the NFL now (hands down).
<div></div>
<div>Well everyone has their own opinion Dixie.   Steve Young is the best qb ever!</div>

I think he is definitely better than Marino.

If I were rating best QB's of my lifetime it would be

1. Montana
2. Manning
3. Marino
4. Brady
5. Young
6. Drew Brees Honorable Mention. I really believe that Drew Brees has quietly become one of the best QB's in my lifetime.

Montana once said that if he and Marino switched roles and things remained the same as far as team personal, he'd have zero rings and Marino would have 4. Marino had no defense and a feeble running game to work with.

Montana said he was lucky to have been in that system and with a fantastic team around him. He said Marino would've won Super Bowls with the 49ers easy.

Anyway, not sure if agree with this list. Manning may indeed the best ever and if things continue for the next 4 or 5 years at this rate, he will probably win at least one more SB.

Are you rating team leaders or pure quarterbacks?
Winners get labeled 'team leaders'.

Brees? A great passer yes. Not close to top of all time yet. I say he's borderline for the HOF at this point.

Best in the last 30 years:

1. Montana
2. Marino
3. Manning
4. Farve
5. Elway

Funny thing re Steve Young. A very solid career. Some clear bumps and fuddles in the road though. He seems like a fine wine...better as he's aged.

Young had a good 5-6 year run as elite. A great player but I don't rate him top 5 in the last 30 years or so oddly.
I'd say Jim Kelly and Brady are clearly better.
 

Borussia

Guru
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
231
Location
Florida
the Colts-Pats game was one of the better games in quite some time. I think it will go down as a classic, not so much for BB's all or none gamble.
I thought he was just going to try and draw them off and when the ball was hiked I was shocked watching a game for the first time in many years.
Most are predictable as we all know.

What it the right call? The cliche is to say he'd be a genius if they converted.
If they convert the 2 yards, they win.

All or none. Manning found the rhythm and his defense was physcially winded and he knew it.
They win if they get the 2 yards.

Replay or no replay, it was the right spot. Faulk was juggling it a bit and the defender pushed him back the key yard. He's still be short via the replay. When he caught the ball he was in the air anyway and did not have possession as he was juggling the ball.

I have to give it to BB for being courageous. Yes, the potential cost of not making it was tremendous.
He rolled the dice and lost.

I like the unique call though. It will only serve to reinforce conservative play calling in crunch situations.
Sad, the game is more compelling with a bit of risk.
 

Alworth No.19

Newbie
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
62
ToughJ, no Elway in your top ten, not even honorable mention? That's harsh. Rating all-time QBs is really tough because developments and rule changes have affected the way QBs play. Walsh's revolution in the short passing game and its subsequent evolution has made today's QBs much more efficient. If you look at the numbers, the top QBs for yards per completion all played before the revolution in the passing game, because back then most teams threw the ball downfield - that's why the completion percentages and interception ratios of many of the greats of the 50, 60s, 70s have numbers that today would be considered pedestrian, if not unacceptable. That said, Peyton Manning is playing the position as well as anyone ever at this point. His combination of mental and physical gifts are almost unparalleled. Late in his career, Steve Young was playing almost as well, but he wisely chose to retire before he got his brains scrambled. If Young had played a full career - except for one season on a terrible Tampa Bay team, he didn't become a full-time starter until he was 31, and he retired at 37, so he only had seven full seasons - he might have set the benchmark for all QBs. I'd rank them as follows:

1. Manning
2. Montana
3. Unitas (Johnny U was really something. I guess you had to be there.)
4. Young (Among other things, Young ran for 43 tds in his career, which would be a good number for a full-time running back.)
5. Otto Graham (Only seen him play on film, and perhaps this is going too far back in football history, but his winning record is unsurpassed.)
6. Brady
7. Elway
8. Bart Starr (Numbers are good for the era, and the game is about winning. No one won the big prize in the NFL more than Bart.)
9. Bradshaw (Perhaps too high, because the first two Steeler SBs were won almost exclusively with defense, but Terry didn't lose those games, and as the Steel Curtain became more vulnerable, he picked up his game.)
10. Len Dawson (Wildly overlooked, even in his playing days. His numbers are great, especially for the era, and his teams won two championships. He and Starr are probably the prototypes of the "game manager" who makes good decisions, protects the ball, and gives his team a chance to win.)
11. Sonny Jurgensen (extremely productive for his time, and took care of the ball as well. He was bascially an earlier version of . . .)
12. Marino.
13. Staubach (Again, didn't become a full-time starter until he was 31 and retired at 37, came back to the game after a six-year layoff and became a great pro. A great athlete, who QB'd two SB victories, and two close losses (damn you, Jackie Smith). Might have been the best ever, had he had a normal career trajectory)
14. Farve (most would think Brett is far too low, but there it is. Great numbers, but he has failed to protect the ball as a QB in this day and age should. Very dodgy decision making.
15. Tarkenton.
16. Moon. (Didn't become a starter until he was 28, and was productive into his 40s. Probably would have held all the important records until Farve had he been drafted when he should have been. Threw the ball as well as anyone. Was a big winner in the CFL, but not the NFL.)
17. Fouts (Didn't protect the ball as well as he should have, and never got the Chargers over the hump - of course it wasn't his fault half the team was coked out of its mind - but was as smart and tough as any QB ever. Rag arm and he could hardly walk, but had probably the quickest release ever and was unstoppable when he was on.)
18. Aikman (Numbers are pedestrian, but was a winner.)
19. Griese (Ditto)
20. Kelly (Wasted time in the USFL and retired early, which held down his career numbers. Four straight AFC championships count for a lot. However, the Bills would have won that first SB if Kelly had managed the clock better.)

Special Honorable Mention

Doug Flutie. Wasted time in the USFL, and then got totally screwed by the NFL. As good a football player as ever laced them up. CFL numbers are mind-boggling, and he played well enough when he returned to the NFL late in his career. Should have had a top ten NFL career.

Greg Cook. Still the only rookie to lead the league in passing. Played one season, on a second-year expansion team, and electrified football with his poise and arm. The greatest "what if" in football history

Honorable Mention:
Don Meredith (Helped QB the worse expansion team ever, and stuck with them until they became a powerhouse. Retired early at 30 after his best season. Nearly beat Lombardi and the Packers in the NFL title games for places in the first two Super Bowls, which leads to an interesting counter-historical hypothetical: Those first two SBs would have featured very interesting matchups: Cowboys/Chiefs, Cowboys/Raiders. The Cowboys were very much like an AFL team so these games could have been classics, instead of Packer walkovers.)

Phil Simms

Lamonica/Namath Both would have had Farve-like careers and numbers under today's rules. Plus Joe's knees wouldn't have been such a big issue these days.

Ken Anderson/Stabler

Current players who may end up in the top twenty when their careers are finished: Brees, Roethlisberger, Warner, Rivers, possibly Palmer and McNabb. And JaMarcus Russell (just kidding)

Edited by: Alworth No.19
 

Deadlift

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Messages
5,240
Location
North Carolina
I don't think Favre's 481 TDs to 313 picks is THAT BAD!!

I know some people have suggested that he "chokes" -- but maybe he's not the "turnover machine" that his haters would want everyone to believe.

The Caste media would more than welcome a black Brett Favre! I don't see any black QB that is about to sniff 70,000 passing yards which is what Favre is close to!

Theoretically, Peyton Manning could get to 70,000 in about 5 years but that remains to be seen. One must not underestimate Favre's mobility (and keeping his eyes down the field), and making the pin-point strike deep downfield.

In that sense, Brett Favre is much more of a "Caste-buster" than Manning. That's also where Elway, Steve Young and Drew Brees shine. Joe Flacco has made amazing plays in his young career, and he's likely to make a lot more. They are Caste-busters!
 

Alworth No.19

Newbie
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
62
Actually the alltime professional yardage record of 72,381- which Farve will probably overtake if he keeps it up - was set by Damon Allen, Marcus Allen's brother, over 23 seasons in the CFL.

Yeah, I often get into debates over Farve. Great player, to be sure, and when he's got it goin' it's lights out, but I just can't put him in the top ten of my, admittedly entirely subjective, rankings. If it's any consolation, I have Favre seventh among players whose careers started after the merger, or in the "modern era," behind Manning, Montana, Brady, Elway, Bradshaw, and Marino so I don't think that's too bad.
 

bigunreal

Mentor
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
1,923
I think it's impossible to rank the all-time greatest QBs, without factoring in the talent around them. If Montana was the greatest of all time, why did Steve Bono put up the same impressive stats whenever Montana was injured? Why did Steve Young step in and put up more impressive numbers (with lesser talent around him)?

All of the "greatest" QBs had good to great offensive lines to protect them, good to great WR corps and good to great running games. Most all had good to great defenses as well. The lone exceptions to this would be Sonny Jurgensen (mediocre offensive line, no running game and a horrendous defense), Dan Marino (mediocre running game and a terrible defense) John Elway (mediocre running game for most of his career, sub par defense and less than stellar WRs) and Dan Fouts (no defense). This isn't to say that Unitas, Starr, Tarkenton, Montana, Young, Favre, Brady and Manning aren't good or even great QBs, it's just an acknowledgment that they all played on very good to great teams.

If not for the luck of the draw, I believe Archie Manning, for instance, would have been considered one of the all-time great QBs, If he'd been able to switch places with the more fortunate Terry Bradshaw, I believe the Steelers would have won another Super Bowl or two, and no one would even remember Bradshaw's brief and disappointing career. Another trememdous natural talent, imo, was Seahawk QB Jim Zorn. If he'd been able to swap teams with fellow lefty Kenny Stabler, I think the Raiders would have won at least another Super Bowl and Stabler would probably have retired very early after suffering numerous hits behind Seattle's porous offensive line. Those are just two examples of potentially great QBs, who had the misfortune to sign with awful teams that gave them no chance to succeed. If Brady Quinn remains in Cleveland, he may fall into this category. I don't care how great Brady and Manning are, if you put them on that Browns' team, they would only be nominally more successful than Quinn (or Anderson).

I've always felt that QBs get way too much credit and way too much blame. The fact that forgettable players like Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer accomplished something that far more skilled QBs like Marino, Fouts and Jurgensen never did, should cause everyone to temper their praise for individual players who are credited with "winning" championships.

I cannot think of a single example where a great team lost its "great" starting QB and fell apart under the backup. In the 1960s, Green Bay won just as often with forgotten backup Zeke Bratkowski, the Colts prospered behind several Unitas backups (including Tom Matte, the starting RB who was pressed into service and did very well), and Dallas kept winning with Don Meredith, Craig Morton and Roger Staubach. In the 1970s, ancient journeyman Earl Morrall started most of Miami's undefeated season, the Steelers won with Bradshaw, Joe Gilliam and Terry Hanratty (who also could have been great, but never got a real opportunity), the Vikings employed everyone from Joe Kapp to Gary Cuozzo before getting Tarkenton back (and always were winners), and the Redskins were able to win even when the horrific Billy Kilmer was under center. In the 1980s-1990s, we saw how the 49ers never missed a beat when Montana was injured, and Frank Reich led the greatest comeback in playoff history when Jim Kelly was hurt. In this decade, Mike Shanhan employed a slew of QBs after Elway retired, and they all put up good numbers. Then last season, college backup Matt Cassel, after a rough start, was on fire down the stretch for the Brady-less Patriots. The real test would be to see if Jim Sorgi could lead the Colts if Peyton Manning ever went down.

For the record, I think Steve Young is the greatest all around QB I've ever seen. He didn't get to start until he was past 30, yet he dominated league statistics for the next several seasons. He also was the only "great" QB who was a truly tremendous runner. But that's just my opinion, and of course he too played for a great team.
 

Deadlift

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Messages
5,240
Location
North Carolina
I think Favre, Manning or Brees will win the Super Bowl this year.

Philip Rivers and Kurt Warner could also be in the playoffs, but I think their teams have more flaws.


Worst case scenario: Bungles or Steelers win Super Bowl...
 
Top