Wariner is back and may threaten 43.19!
- Thread starter white is right
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albinosprint
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well JW had another loss to Merritt today, but on the plus side he ran another 44.6 so he is really consistent.one thing that I don't like with JW is he is always giving up in the last 10-15m of the race. he see he is going to win and he just gives up. not sure what that is all about, but it's a bit annoying. I really believe Hart is in the middle of rebuilding this boys base. you will see the old JW next year, mark my words. once Hart gets done with him all JW needs is to get his head straight.
white lightning
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Great points bro. JW is looking more like himself. Sure he isn't winning yet but he is running faster all the time. Next season he should dip back into that magical 43 second territory.
I hope Wariner can get back to the top - it was great to have a completely dominant white guy in a sprint, as he was before.
Bit off topic, but this reminds me of the duel between my hero back in the 90s, Roger Black, and Du-aine Ladejo. Black (who was white, lol) was a great runner, silver medallist in the 1991 World Championship to Antonio Pettigrew; Pettigrew was later discovered to be on drugs, and was stripped of his later medals, but 1991 was deemed to be too long ago so he kept the gold. But Roger Black should have been world champ.
Anyway, Black was injured in 1992 and 1993, and was just coming back in 1994 when he faced an arrogant young black upstart called Du-aine Ladejo. Ladejo was shooting his mouth, typically, before the European Championships, which Black had won in 1986 and 1990. Black started off well in the final, but his lack of training due to injury showed on the home straight, and he was overtaken by Lajedo a few metres from the line. Ladejo made an unsporting meal of it, and it was clear that he and Black hated each other. Black said calmly that Ladejo would never beat him again.
Ladejo was injured in 1995, but used his Euro win and his "personality" (read: loud-mouthed arrogance) to get a TV talk show on one of the notoriously pro-black British TV channels. It and he were both an embarrassment. 1996 rolled around, and Ladejo started making his usual moronic claims that he was going to be Olympic Champion. Black was utterly sick of this crap, so during a press conference, he challenged Ladejo to a £1000 bet on the British Championships. There was serious needle between the two of them, and the race became the biggest domestic athletics event ever: lots of the usual caste/pro-black types were saying that Black was too old, Ladejo was "the future" (as they always like to say about blacks), etc.
So race day came around - on live TV Black defeated Ladejo with ease and became British Champ for the umpteenth time! Ladejo, the usual bad loser, kept saying that he would be Olympic Champ: when the Games came round, however, he was knocked out of the individual 400m in the first round, and (thanks to Black and the other members of the mostly white British 4x400m team) he didn't run for the relay team after the first round. Black, ontheother hand,won two silvers, in the individual against the great Michael Johnson, and in the relay against the USA.
Black went on to race competitively for another two seasons and is now a respected pundit and motivational speaker. Ladejo never raced the 400 again; he tried (and failed) at the 400 hurdles and decathlon, and was last seeing eking out a living on a couple of low-class TV sports shows, "Superstars" and the revamped "Gladiators": both of which were swiftly cancelled! Needless to say, there have been no offers for another TV talk show.
Anyway, just wanted to share that story! I'm from UK, so most of you guys here probably weren't familiar with it. Roger Black was quite a big deal over here: I was lucky enough to attend his last race in 1998, and the stadium was packed to see him.
Bit off topic, but this reminds me of the duel between my hero back in the 90s, Roger Black, and Du-aine Ladejo. Black (who was white, lol) was a great runner, silver medallist in the 1991 World Championship to Antonio Pettigrew; Pettigrew was later discovered to be on drugs, and was stripped of his later medals, but 1991 was deemed to be too long ago so he kept the gold. But Roger Black should have been world champ.
Anyway, Black was injured in 1992 and 1993, and was just coming back in 1994 when he faced an arrogant young black upstart called Du-aine Ladejo. Ladejo was shooting his mouth, typically, before the European Championships, which Black had won in 1986 and 1990. Black started off well in the final, but his lack of training due to injury showed on the home straight, and he was overtaken by Lajedo a few metres from the line. Ladejo made an unsporting meal of it, and it was clear that he and Black hated each other. Black said calmly that Ladejo would never beat him again.
Ladejo was injured in 1995, but used his Euro win and his "personality" (read: loud-mouthed arrogance) to get a TV talk show on one of the notoriously pro-black British TV channels. It and he were both an embarrassment. 1996 rolled around, and Ladejo started making his usual moronic claims that he was going to be Olympic Champion. Black was utterly sick of this crap, so during a press conference, he challenged Ladejo to a £1000 bet on the British Championships. There was serious needle between the two of them, and the race became the biggest domestic athletics event ever: lots of the usual caste/pro-black types were saying that Black was too old, Ladejo was "the future" (as they always like to say about blacks), etc.
So race day came around - on live TV Black defeated Ladejo with ease and became British Champ for the umpteenth time! Ladejo, the usual bad loser, kept saying that he would be Olympic Champ: when the Games came round, however, he was knocked out of the individual 400m in the first round, and (thanks to Black and the other members of the mostly white British 4x400m team) he didn't run for the relay team after the first round. Black, ontheother hand,won two silvers, in the individual against the great Michael Johnson, and in the relay against the USA.
Black went on to race competitively for another two seasons and is now a respected pundit and motivational speaker. Ladejo never raced the 400 again; he tried (and failed) at the 400 hurdles and decathlon, and was last seeing eking out a living on a couple of low-class TV sports shows, "Superstars" and the revamped "Gladiators": both of which were swiftly cancelled! Needless to say, there have been no offers for another TV talk show.
Anyway, just wanted to share that story! I'm from UK, so most of you guys here probably weren't familiar with it. Roger Black was quite a big deal over here: I was lucky enough to attend his last race in 1998, and the stadium was packed to see him.
albinosprint
Mentor
Black was great and a big inspiration for me growing up. when I was in high school I had two sprinters to look up too, Kevin Little and Roger Black.
Jimmy Chitwood
Hall of Famer
thanks for that post, gulf177. i don't think i've ever heard of Roger Black before.
i've never followed track closely, but enthusiastic fans like white lightning have drawn me into it recently. and i must say, historical references such as yours are VERY important.such storiesprove that the way things are nowcomes from afalsely manufactured situation, and that when the playing field is level White athletes are more than competitive.
i look forward to more of your posts.
i've never followed track closely, but enthusiastic fans like white lightning have drawn me into it recently. and i must say, historical references such as yours are VERY important.such storiesprove that the way things are nowcomes from afalsely manufactured situation, and that when the playing field is level White athletes are more than competitive.
i look forward to more of your posts.
Roger Black. Another white overshadowed by a black athlete (Michael Johnson) and quickly discarded and forgotten. One of the fastest 400m runners of all time. I hope Wariner does not et overshadowed by Merritt as far as his legacy goes. Wariner has the third fastest 400m run in history with 43.45. Ahead of Wariner is disgraced Butch Reynolds and Michael Johnson (the Usain Bolt of the '90s). Here are some of the fastest white 400m runs of all time:
43.45 Jeremy Wariner- Gold Medal 2004 Olympics
44.33 Thomas Schonlebe- Gold Medal 1987 WC
44.35 Andrew Rock- Silver Medal 2005 WC
44.36 Iwan Thomas
44.37 Roger Black- Silver Medal 1996 Olympics
Those are all the sub 44.5s. There are many sub 45s so it would take forever to list them. My favorite fact: Ireland's David Gillick ran 44.77 with roughly 4 million people and almost no track programs. The English white talent doesn't surprise me, along with Germany's. America has produced a couple good white 400m runners, but considering we probably have the most talent base, not nearly enough. Russia should be better.
43.45 Jeremy Wariner- Gold Medal 2004 Olympics
44.33 Thomas Schonlebe- Gold Medal 1987 WC
44.35 Andrew Rock- Silver Medal 2005 WC
44.36 Iwan Thomas
44.37 Roger Black- Silver Medal 1996 Olympics
Those are all the sub 44.5s. There are many sub 45s so it would take forever to list them. My favorite fact: Ireland's David Gillick ran 44.77 with roughly 4 million people and almost no track programs. The English white talent doesn't surprise me, along with Germany's. America has produced a couple good white 400m runners, but considering we probably have the most talent base, not nearly enough. Russia should be better.
Alberto Juantorena of Cuba was untouchable in the mid-to-late '70's, world record in 800 (and also the fastest non-altitude 400 at that time, I think). Tall, big strider, "the Horse":
Double Gold medallist - Montreal Olympic Games
800m (1:43.50) and 400m (44.26)
1977
Gold medallist - Sofia Universiade - World Record - 800m (1:43.44)
1978
Double Gold medallist - Columbia Central American Games400m (44.27) and 800m (1:47.78)
Double Gold medallist - Montreal Olympic Games
800m (1:43.50) and 400m (44.26)
1977
Gold medallist - Sofia Universiade - World Record - 800m (1:43.44)
1978
Double Gold medallist - Columbia Central American Games400m (44.27) and 800m (1:47.78)
Thanks for the kind comments. Btw StarWars, I wouldn't say Roger Black has been forgotten over here in the UK; he's still well-known and respected, and in the media quite a bit. It does bug me that Pettigrew hasn't been stripped of the 91 WC Gold and Black awarded it instead: being able to say you were world champion is something special.
Regarding Michael Johnson, Black actually admitted afterwards that he was running for silver in 96, and indeed Johnson finished almost a second ahead of him (I think it was 43.50 to 44.47). Some might say that was defeatist, but in Black's autobiography, he talks about how it showed that he had matured as a runner: in his earlier days, he used to go out too fast and was sometimes caught on the home straight (as against Ladejo in 94 and druggie Pettigrew in 91). He knew that if he tried to go with Johnsonearly he would probably tie up late and lose out on the medals, so he paced himself well for silver. Johnson was indeed the Bolt of the 90s - with or without PEDs, he was incredibly quick.
Britain has a good tradition of white 400m men. I remember the big duel in 1998 between Iwan Thomas (a white Welshman) and Mark Richardson (a black runner, later charged but apparently acquitted of drugs) in the European and Commonwealth Games. Richardson had won minor races against Thomas earlier in the season, but when it came to the big ones, Thomas won them both! Also David Grindley - hereached the Olympic Final in 1992 and ran44.47, at the age of NINETEEN! He was looking great for the future, but sadly had to retire due to injury soon after.
What's happened to Andrew Rock btw? Haven't seen much of him lately.
Regarding Michael Johnson, Black actually admitted afterwards that he was running for silver in 96, and indeed Johnson finished almost a second ahead of him (I think it was 43.50 to 44.47). Some might say that was defeatist, but in Black's autobiography, he talks about how it showed that he had matured as a runner: in his earlier days, he used to go out too fast and was sometimes caught on the home straight (as against Ladejo in 94 and druggie Pettigrew in 91). He knew that if he tried to go with Johnsonearly he would probably tie up late and lose out on the medals, so he paced himself well for silver. Johnson was indeed the Bolt of the 90s - with or without PEDs, he was incredibly quick.
Britain has a good tradition of white 400m men. I remember the big duel in 1998 between Iwan Thomas (a white Welshman) and Mark Richardson (a black runner, later charged but apparently acquitted of drugs) in the European and Commonwealth Games. Richardson had won minor races against Thomas earlier in the season, but when it came to the big ones, Thomas won them both! Also David Grindley - hereached the Olympic Final in 1992 and ran44.47, at the age of NINETEEN! He was looking great for the future, but sadly had to retire due to injury soon after.
What's happened to Andrew Rock btw? Haven't seen much of him lately.
albinosprint
Mentor
shame about Grindley! as for Rock, he had a shaky year and went a bit mental and decided to go after the 400H, which never panned out, but he did try and come back in the 400, running some slow time. he is out there, somewhere, trying to get his head straight. and for the record, I think Johnson was a drug cheat. I also believe he did it without Harts knowing. I don't think Hart would have stayed with him if he knew he was using PEDs. you just don't drop time like that at his age. not to mention he did it in a time when HGH was rampant and also undetectable. Black should have had gold!
About Johnson, he didn't drop that much time in 1996: I mean, he ran a 43.98 in 1992, aged 24. Even if he was on PEDs, he was a phenomenon - just like Bolt. The Olympic Final in 96 was 43.49 )(Johnson)to 44.41 (Black), a difference of 0.92 seconds (I just checked it!) That's a heck of a lot. In 1991, Pettigrew's margin of victory was much smaller, and we know for sure he was a druggie. Black should have been WC in 91, but saying he should have had Olympic Gold is a stretch. Watching the race, I sure was hoping for Johnson to pull up injured though, lol.
white lightning
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I second that well deserved congrats to Wariner. Hopefully Coach Hart will have him back up to speed this summer. I want to see him get back into the 43's.
devans
Mentor
Please forgive me for steering the topic back to Roger Black briefly, but the British World championship 400M relay team that he was a member of have been awarded the 1997 Gold Medal following the US team being stripped of the gold.
Full story here ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/8445003.stm
Full story here ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/8445003.stm
The only man in the world who has been managing to beat Wariner, LaShawn Merritt, just tested positive for PED's. In fact, he tested positive on three consecutive occasions over the offseason. Naturally, the steroid-bloated runner is trying to pass off the incident as being the result of his taking "male enhancement" products. Uh huh. You are the weakest link, LaShawn--Goodbye!
albinosprint
Mentor
WOW, and I was just thinking how sh*ty of a day I'm having. Trackster, you just turned my whole day around! the sad thing is he needed PEDS to beat JW, and JW wasn't even running at his best. what a lemon!
I might get some abuse for this. But for once I will actually half defend an athlete on this one. Does anyone here know what DHEA is (what he got banned for), it does absolutly nothing for any athlete and can only demonstrate effects in old men (plus 60). It shouldnt be on the banned list atall, the IOC don't have a clue with some of stuff on there banned list, its not like it even has abuse potential. Probably get more of a testosterone boost having a wank.
The otherside of me thinks that the guy is an IDIOT for taking a supplement over a prolonged period of time without looking at ALL the ingredients!!!
He might have been taking other stuff which is serious (we cant prove it though) but DHEA is a very unfortunate supplement to get banned for.
The otherside of me thinks that the guy is an IDIOT for taking a supplement over a prolonged period of time without looking at ALL the ingredients!!!
He might have been taking other stuff which is serious (we cant prove it though) but DHEA is a very unfortunate supplement to get banned for.
Flash said:
im sorry the guy should be stripped of his gold, its like people who take cannibis, usually take other drugs as well. This guy was on everything imo.
Warrner for the win folks.
BTW notice it says off season, funny how jamacia dont test off season...hmmmmmmmm
Personally, I believe the it's-just-DHEA--I-took-Enzyte-to-be-like-smiling-Bob story about as much as I believe in the tooth fairy. Every time an athlete gets busted he comes up with some lame story of tainted supplements. Merritt has always looked pumped up and has no more credibility than Marion Jones did when she adamantly denied juiced. No official report ever said it was just DHEA. That's Merritt's version of the story, which is the only side that has been released.
white is right
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From a guy that has a head the size of a rottweilers. This is the least of his drug problems. One bad thing from this is Wariner won't get any upgrades from Beijing or Berlin. When anybody that can connect the dots knows that he was probably on stuff then too. Edited by: white is right