Vick smuggling dope?

devans

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I think it is animal cruelty.
These aggressive dogs get put into a pen with another dog by humans. They don't opt in or out. They are at the mercy of their owners.
Plus these kind of dogs are extremely dangerous, and if they get out could kill a child or small adult.
 

Lance Alworth

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jaxvid said:
Years ago I knew a fella that bred and trained hunting dogs. It was his sole income and he supported his family on it. Occasionally he had a dog that would not hunt or was just horrible at obeying commands and getting the birds.

Whenever he had one like this he would kill it. Just take out his gun and put a bullet in it's head. I was shocked but he told me that if he let the dog live he couldn't justify keeping it and feeding it, if he gave or sold it someone would try to hunt with it and word would get out that he had bred some bad dogs which could put him out of business. I understand this was (or is) fairly standard in his business but maybe times have changed.

Someone should put a bullet in his head
 

Lance Alworth

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I am an animal rights activist and I'm also a right winger. I don't understand why people like to paint all animal rights activists as leftist wackos and what have you. Our political views all differ
 

chris371

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Im fine with killin animals for food, and on my farm we used to drown the kittens we couldnt give away to friends ( if your cats get pregnant every year and you cant get rid of them after 5 years your gonna have 100 cats around the place).Same goes for puppies.

But I dont believe that it is right to kill animals for entertainment. Im pretty darned right wing and being against cruelty to animals doesnt make me so leftist wacko.
 

KG2422

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Lance Alworth said:
I am an animal rights activist and I'm also a right winger. I don't understand why people like to paint all animal rights activists as leftist wackos and what have you. Our political views all differ

I don't know why that is either. Hitler, for example, was a vegetarian and dog lover. I read somewhere that he made it law that lobster had to be killed before they could be cooked so that they wouldn't suffer.
 

White Shogun

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Half the posters on this board get upset when someones says they hope a black running back gets injured, and now we have a guy saying someone should put a bullet in a guy's head!
smiley36.gif
 
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I'm center-right and being a dog owner, and having owned a pitbull, find dog fighting abhorrent. I've got no trouble with hunting, slaughtering animals, etc, but to breed a dog who's sole purpose is simply to fight and kill other dogs makes me want to open up a few .40 S&W holes in the ******* doing it. Death for animals when at the hands of people should be quick and as painless as we can make it; no animals skinned alive or shot and left to bleed to death.

As for pitbulls themselves, they are naturally aggressive and protective dogs, but training them to be more aggressive makes them extremely dangerous. Given a hundred years, that sort of aggression could be bred out of them like the bulldog, but I doubt it will happen.
 

Lance Alworth

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White Shogun said:
Half the posters on this board get upset when someones says they hope a black running back gets injured, and now we have a guy saying someone should put a bullet in a guy's head!
smiley36.gif

Well animal cruelty is just one thing I have absolutely ZERO tolerance for
 

guest301

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Lance Alworth said:
White Shogun said:
Half the posters on this board get upset when someones says they hope a black running back gets injured, and now we have a guy saying someone should put a bullet in a guy's head!
smiley36.gif

Well animal cruelty is just one thing I have absolutely ZERO tolerance for
I'm with you on this one, at least in regards to dog fighting. Everytime I even see a pit bull or rottweiler I am instantly on my guard. Just don't trust that breed no matter who owns them or how well they were raised. I understand what Jaxvid was saying in regards to whether it should be a legal matter or not, I lean toward it should be against the law but I understand the libertarian point of view. But dogs are a special creature and I'm not nearly as concerned with how chickens are slaughtered as oppossed to how dogs are treated.
 
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Rotts tend to be pretty friendly when well trained, but you should be on your guard with dogs period; too many well meaning people never teach the dog its place in the family.
 

Poacher

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I don't know any decent person who is cruel to animals. And to me dog fighting is cruel and callous. How hard- hearted do you have to be to get a kick out of watching something like that? Are these the types of people we want more of in our society?

Wasn't PETA after that idiot jayson williams a couple of years ago for shooting a dog in the head with a shotgun as he was driving down the street. I think he did it just because he could.

Mr. Mexico is starting to string together quite a few little character revealing incidents is he not? Bird flipping, disease spreading (allegedly of course), dog fighting, drugs.... Maybe he should be playing for the Bengals.

Giving somebody money does not change who or what that person is.
 

Lance Alworth

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Poacher said:
I don't know any decent person who is cruel to animals. And to me dog fighting is cruel and callous. How hard- hearted do you have to be to get a kick out of watching something like that? Are these the types of people we want more of in our society?

You have to understand. These people aren't like us. To us civilized white people the mere thought of dog fighting turns most of our stomachs. With Ron Mexico's constituants, they are simply reverting back to the ways of the jungles in which they originally came from. These are their roots. They did this in the jungles of africa, and instead of assimilating into our culture, they have reverted back to tribal warfare

I don't feel this is the case of all black people however. There are exceptions of those who consider themselves to be proud Americans and who conduct themselves in a cordial manner, rather than apes straight from the Congo. I have nothing but the utmost respect for those individuals. Its just too bad their message has fallen on deaf ears and that the Ron Mexico's of the world are the ones people look up to
 

Bart

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Seems Poindexter who is black was not in a hurry to have Vick's property searched. The Feds stepped in.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AoQg1wckkdi_4ybEkovWY3 k5nYcB?slug=ap-vickinvestigation&prov=ap&type=lgns



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<DIV ="title">Feds search Vick's property in dogfighting investigation</TD></TR>
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By HANK KURZ Jr., AP Sports Writer
June 7, 2007


SURRY, Va. (AP) -- Federal law enforcement officials descended on a home owned by Michael Vick on Thursday armed with a search warrant that suggests they're taking over an investigation into the Falcons quarterback's possible involvement in dogfighting.


More than a dozen vehicles went to the home early in the afternoon and investigators searched inside before turning their attention to the area where officials found dozens of dogs in late April and evidence that suggested the home was involved in a dogfighting operation.


Surry County officials had secured a search warrant in late May based on an informant's information to look for as many as 30 dog carcasses buried on the property. The warrant never was executed because Commonwealth's Attorney Gerald G. Poindexter said he had issues with the way it was worded.


That search warrant expired Thursday


"What is foreign to me is the federal government getting into a dogfighting case," Poindexter said. "I know it's been done, but what's driving this? Is it this boy's celebrity? Would they have done this if it wasn't Michael Vick?"


Poindexter said he was "absolutely floored" that federal officials got involved, and that he believes he and Sheriff Harold D. Brown handled the investigation properly.


"Apparently these people want it," Poindexter said. "They want it, and I don't believe they want it because of the serious criminal consequences involved. ... They want it because Michael Vick may be involved."


Poindexter said he found out about a sealed search warrant filed in the U.S. Attorney's office about the time federal investigators executed it Thursday.


"If they've made a judgment that we're not acting prudently and with dispatch based on what we have, they've not acting very wisely," Poindexter said.


He said Surry County officials were preparing another search warrant for the property and that the investigative team planned to meet to make sure they had all the experts needed to make the search most effective.


"There's a larger thing here, and it has nothing to do with any breach of protocol," Poindexter said. "There's something awful going on here. I don't know if it's racial. I don't know what it is."


State police assisted investigators from the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the U.S. Attorney's office in executing the warrant, Virginia State Police Sgt. D.S. Carr said, declining to comment further.


Thursday evening, a state police evidence collection truck was parked inside the fence surrounding the house. Investigators could be seen carrying a large sheet of plywood and a box.


The U.S. Attorney's office would not confirm a search warrant was filed.


Messages left at Brown's office were not returned, and a dispatcher said he left for the day at around 4 p.m.


An after-hours call to Vick's attorney, Larry Woodward of Virginia Beach, was not immediately returned.


During an April 25 drug raid on the home Vick owns in the county, authorities seized 66 dogs, including 55 pit bulls, and equipment that suggested someone at the property was involved in a dogfighting operation.


A search warrant affidavit said some of the dogs were in individual kennels and about 30 were tethered with "heavy logging-type chains" buried in the ground. The chains allowed the dogs to get close to each other, but not to have contact, one of myriad findings on the property that suggested a dogfighting operation.


Others included a rape stand, used to hold non-receptive dogs in place for mating; an electric treadmill modified to be used by dogs; a "pry bar" used to open the clamped-down mouths of dogs; and a bloodied piece of carpeting the authorities believe was used in dog fights. Carpeting gives dogs traction in a plywood fighting pit.


Vick has claimed he rarely visits the home and was unaware it could be involved in a criminal enterprise. He also has blamed family members for taking advantage of his generosity. Vick's cousin, Davon Boddie, was living at the home at the time of the raids.


Vick, a registered dog breeder, has said in more recent interviews that his lawyers have advised him not to discuss the investigation.</TD></TR></T></T></TABLE>Edited by: Bart
 

jaxvid

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I have no sympathy for Vick but I strongly object to federal involvement in this case. There is no constitutional issues involved and no reason at all for the Feds to investigate. The sheriff is right it's all about publicity for the federal government. I thought that the Feds had to have permission of the local sheriff before intervening but that is probably ignored nowadays.
 

White Shogun

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As far as I know, the feds don't need permission to investigate any case that falls within federal jurisdiction.

I believe that the local DA may be guilty of prosecutorial misconduct and failed to fully prosecute this case because Michael Vick is involved. He is accusing the feds of being involved because it's Mike Vick; if it wasn't Vick would the locals have failed to execute that warrant already?

In cases like this, the DA is involved every step of the way. The officers wouldn't have sought a search warrant without DA approval. A judge found sufficient probable cause to sign the warrant. It should have been executed.

As I understand it, if Poindexter was merely worried about the wording, it could have been re-written and authorized within 24 hours, easy. Why did they wait til the warrant expired to seek another?

If Poindexter had done his job correctly, the feds wouldn't have had to get involved. He's already playing the race card. Does that surprise anyone? Edited by: White Shogun
 

cjay

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we can't blame africa for dog fighting. dog fighting in america comes from england, where it was considered a disgraceful lower class activity. the people who kept dogfighting alive in america were the white trash criminal types.

but of course blacks have taken to it with great enthusiasm, as they do with all things bad.
 

White Shogun

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Man gets 90 days

What say you, Caste Footballers? Should a man serve time in jail for feeding a 3-week old puppy to a boa constrictor?

Why is that a crime when pet stores sell rats for the specific purpose of feeding them to snakes?

There was also another story of a chef being sued by animal rights activists for throwing live crabs into boiling water - for dinner. The suit was thrown out of court but sent to a conciliator.

So can we eat animals or not? And we get upset with Hindus because they won't eat cows...
 

White Shogun

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Want to know why feds got involved in this case?

From this article:

Using powerful laws that were enacted only a month ago (a bill known as HR 137), agents of the U.S. Department of Agriculture are determining whether Vick and others should be prosecuted for promoting and sponsoring dogfights. The new federal law makes it a felony to organize a dogfight. A subdivision of the Agriculture Department is pursuing similar cases elsewhere with considerable support from humane societies and local police departments. The Vick investigation is one of many across the U.S.
 

Lance Alworth

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White Shogun said:
Man gets 90 days

What say you, Caste Footballers? Should a man serve time in jail for feeding a 3-week old puppy to a boa constrictor?

Why is that a crime when pet stores sell rats for the specific purpose of feeding them to snakes?

Because rats aren't as high on the evolutionary scale as dogs
 
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Because life isn't fair. Some animals have more intrinsic value to people than others. Rodents are pests, dogs are pets. Same reason many Westerners get messed up about Asians eating dogs and cats. Those aren't food animals, they're animals that can help catch food.

I have no trouble with shellfish being boiled, either. Those are food, here near the Chesapeake.
 

Lance Alworth

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Matt_Bowen_Fan said:
Because life isn't fair. Some animals have more intrinsic value to people than others. Rodents are pests, dogs are pets. Same reason many Westerners get messed up about Asians eating dogs and cats. Those aren't food animals, they're animals that can help catch food.

I have no trouble with shellfish being boiled, either. Those are food, here near the Chesapeake.

Good post!
smiley32.gif
 

White Shogun

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Logically speaking then, because of the inherent value of dogs and cats and their place in the evolutionary scale, we should shut down humane societies and city dog pounds that euthanize lost or unwanted animals, correct?
 
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No, because too many cats and dogs are born then there are to take care of them. But no, I don't think the solution is feeding them to snakes.

What are you trying to get at? Just catching me in contradictory beliefs, or a logical fallacy? Like I said, life isn't fair, and not everything is dictated by logic. Why is it ok to feed a rat to a snake and not a puppy? Because a rat isn't a puppy. Logic and rationale don't dictate everything, and most people are a bundle of contradictions.
 

White Shogun

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I'm actually not trying to 'get' at anything, or 'catch' you in anything, either, Bowen_Fan. I'm actually genuinely curious if people see the logical inconsistencies in their positions sometimes.

I'm most definitely a bundle of contradictions myself. I see it, and sometimes it causes me to reflect on a position that I hold. Sometimes I'll change my opinion, and others, I just accept the inherent contradiction and move on.

I like the reasons that you guys chose to explain your position. Now, in my mind, I wonder what your (plural) position is on abortion, as I can see where one could say abortion is used to prevent the birth of children when no one wants to take care of them; yet, humans at this point are the highest being on the evolutionary scale, too, soo..

Not that I want to have either of you answer, as I'd really be directing this thread further off topic with that discussion. I'm just giving you an example of why I ask certain questions. I'm genuinely curious and always absorbing new information, trying to learn new things and see new points of view.

Likewise, I got the impression from your (you and Lance) answers to my initial question that you seemed a little defensive, yet I hadn't asked either of you personally any questions at all. I just chalked it up to one of those flaws in Internet communication, and posted a follow up question. That's it, really, no malicious intent or baiting on my part was intended.
 
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I apologize. whenever I see a post on most forums involving 'logic' in some shape or form, it's points scoring, and little more.For my reasoning, its just Heinlein's defense of reasoning value in Starship Troopers; 'a man is not a potato'.
 
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