Toby Gerhart

[dwid]

I've never watched Dickerson that much, but from some old footage it seems like a similar style to me. All I could find was some high school championship game though.

Edited by: dwid

 

[Alworth No.19]

I've never watched Dickerson that much, but from some old footage it seems like a similar style to me. All I could find was some high school championship game though.



and i think fightingtowin was comparing more of the way they seemed to glide effortlessly when they ran

I saw Dickerson quite a bit as Ram. (And even before then: I was in the stands for BYU's epic comeback against SMU and Pony Express.) His style was fairly uncommon. He ran straight up and down, and really took off once he got by the line of scrimmage. Something like a jacked-up O.J., although Simpson didn't run so upright. Adrian Peterson does, but he has more power and less speed than Dickerson.

Actually, speaking of the Pony Express, Gerhart is probably more like Dickerson's teammate in that celebrated backfield: Craig James. Here's a interesting bit from a Sports Illustrated feature on The Pony Express when they were juniors at SMU:

Texans, as everyone knows, love a good story, and the tale of the two tailbacks is just about too good to be true. Dickerson (6'2", 215) and James (6'1", 220) grew up an hour and 20,000 miles from each other in the Greater Houston area. James's home is in the up-scale suburb of Spring Branch, tonier than where Dickerson
hails from: the farming town of Sealy. They heard about each other when
they were high school stars but never saw each other play. Dickerson scored 84 touchdowns and gained 5,875 yards in three years at Class AA Sealy High. James, at Class AAAA Stratford, broke Earl Campbell's
single-season rushing record with 2,411 yards and scored 35 touchdowns
in his senior year. Each led his team to an undefeated state
championship season. Dickerson won the state 100-yard dash in 9.4 seconds; James ran the 100 in 9.7 without training, on a busman's holiday from Stratford's baseball team one afternoon. Dickerson was named the nation's No. 1 running back by Parade magazine and was vigorously recruited by Oklahoma, Texas Tech, Texas A&M and USC, in addition to SMU. James,
a .400-plus-hitting first baseman, was a potential high major league
draft choice. (He can also punt a little. On Saturday he filled in for
injured Punter Eric Kaifes and kicked seven times for a 39.7-yard
average.)


"It was a lot of fun recruiting them," says SMU offensive coordinator Steve Endicott. "Especially Eric. Every game was like a coaches' convention." There were Oklahoma's Barry Switzer and Texas' Freddie Akers and Texas A&M's Tom Wilson, all of whom were ready to promise Dickerson the world. James,
on the other hand, wasn't much of a problem. He passed up baseball for
football, largely, he says, because he wanted to prove that a white boy
could still excel at running back in the Southwest Conference.
"Everybody said that because I'm white, I couldn't compete," he says.
"There was no doubt in my mind. I played on a state championship team
just like Eric. People thought I was slowâ€"I have never been caught from
behind." James committed himself to SMU during his senior season. The hard part was having to tell Bear Bryant to his face that he really preferred SMU over Alabama.

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[Colonel_Reb]

<div ="msg">
<h1>Tackling Toby Gerhart is key for Trojans</h1>
I posted this on the Stanford thread as well. I can't wait for this game!

Going up against an Oregon Ducks team that was arguably one of the
hottest in college football, the Stanford Cardinal did not even bat an
eye.

With their 51-42 victory over the Ducks, the Cardinal not
only threw their hat into the ring, they also broke the Pac-10 race
wide open for practically everyone.

One of the big keys, if not the biggest, to the Cardinal's success this season has been the play of Toby Gerhart, who seems to put up bigger numbers week in and week out.

See
where this is going? Gerhart makes big plays and delivers the big
performances, and his size (6-foot-1, 237 pounds) is just big in
general.

For a more in-depth look at Gerhart'sseason to date check out the slideshow at the bottom of the page.

Gerhart's 223 yards rushing against Oregon is his second 200 yard game of the season, the other coming against Washington.

If
Southern California wants to avoid its third loss on the season, it
will be imperative to bring down Stanford's main weapon and star
tailback.

In two of Stanford's three losses on the season, Gerhart was unable to crack the century mark.

The Cardinal's other loss, coming at the hands of the Arizona Wildcats, was more a byproduct of UofA quarterback Nick Foles'
breakout performance than it was Gerhart's inability to produce, as he
finished that game with 123 yards rushing and 2 touchdowns.

At his Tuesday press conference, Trojans' head coach Pete Carroll addressed the Gerhart's importance to the Cardinal offense and team.

"They
have a real obvious core of their offense in Toby Gerhart, just a
hammer back there running the football, said Carroll. "They've built
their style around his physical nature, and it's working very well for
them."Â￾

Gerhart's physical style is something the Southern
California defense really has not seen this season. While they've gone
up against some of the Pac-10's best backs in Jacquizz Rodgers, LaMichael James and Jahvid Best, they have yet to play against a brutal runner such as Gerhart.

When asked to compare Gerhart to someone he has seen or coached, Pete Carroll had an interesting response:<blockquote>

"He
would be like playing the Bus (Jerome Bettis) the old days at
Pittsburgh where you just knew you had a big war daddy coming back
there at you down after down after down. There is a certain style to
his running and all that and certain things you want to do to try to
defend against that. I don't think there are many guys that had that
kind of presence offhand other than going all the way back to him."Â￾</blockquote>

Simply
put, Gerhart likes to hit and he's going to come out of the gates
running when Saturday afternoon rolls around at the Coliseum. Luckily
for the Trojans' the have a defense full of heavy hitters too.

"I mean, this is a real battler,"Â￾ said Carroll of Gerhart. "He really fights you."Â￾

One
thing is for sure, the stage has been set for this Pac-10 battle. In
front of 90,000 large packing the Coliseum, does it get much better?http://www.examiner.com/x-5385-USC-Trojans-Examiner~y2009m11d11-Tackling-Toby-Gerhart-is-key-for-Trojans
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[Colonel_Reb]

Another mention of Toby by Pete Carroll.


While USC's passing game is struggling under its first-year
quarterback, the Cardinal's offense is rolling behind its freshman
signal-caller.

Andrew Luck
completed 12 of 20 passes for 251 yards and two touchdowns against the
Ducks, and has thrown for 2,076 yards with 11 TDs to just three
interceptions on the season.

He is joined in the backfield by running back Toby Gerhart, who leads the Pac-10 in both rushing yards (1,217) and rushing touchdowns (16).

Gerhart
is coming off an outstanding performance, running for a school-record
223 yards and three scores against Oregon. The senior has seven
100-yard games on the season, and finished with 101 yards and a
touchdown on 23 carries against USC last season.

"They're playing
lights-out," Carroll said of Stanford. "I don't know how we're going to
slow them down. I don't know, but we'll figure that out."

Carroll
is hoping his team can take advantage of finishing the regular season
with three straight home games after playing just two of their previous
eight at the Coliseum. USC has won 12 consecutive home games since the
loss to Stanford in 2007.http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/preview?gameId=293180030

 

[dwid]

[/QUOTE]I saw Dickerson quite a bit as Ram.  (And even before then: I was in the stands for BYU's epic comeback against SMU and Pony Express.)  His style was fairly uncommon.  He ran straight up and down, and really took off once he got by the line of scrimmage.  Something like a jacked-up O.J., although Simpson didn't run so upright.  Adrian Peterson does, but he has more power and less speed than Dickerson.Actually, speaking of the Pony Express, Gerhart is probably more like Dickerson's teammate in that celebrated backfield: Craig James.  [/QUOTE]

How is Toby's running style similar to Craig James though? I haven't seen footage of James so I am curious because I have had a hard time finding a back to compare Toby to.

The only thing I know about him is that he is also White, I think the last White guy to rush for 1,000 yards in the NFL, and apparently from the article he also played baseball like Gerhart.

Toby has also been described by scouts as having a unique upright style of running.Edited by: dwid

 

[Quiet Speed]

<div>Simply
put, Gerhart likes to hit and he's going to come out of the gates
running when Saturday afternoon rolls around at the Coliseum. Luckily
for the Trojans' the have a defense full of heavy hitters too.http://www.examiner.com/x-5385-USC-...1d11-Tackling-Toby-Gerhart-is-key-for-Trojans
</div>

I'll gladly defer to those with a bit more time watching Toby Gerhart. The above statement seems like an over-simplification. There is video on Youtube which shows an assortment Toby's runs from ground level. He's making moves, shifting and running to daylight on several runs. I'm glad he can "hammer"Â￾ it., but if I was Pete Carroll I wouldn't underestimate his ability to use a paint brush.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

About the only game film I can find that shows Dickerson and James running together is the "Miracle Bowl" from 1980. From what I've seen of Toby Gerhart running the ball, his running style has elements of both members of the Pony Express, along with more punishing aspects as well. Toby doesn't look as fast as James or Dickerson, but he is very agile and makes moves that are rare for someone his size. To me, Toby looks like a very elusive power back, whereas the Pony Express look more like finesse backs. They were both a little slimmer than Toby as well. Take a look and see what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b55Tn_YbLK8



Toby's highlights
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gloWezAPp5w

 

[dwid]

Yeah I would say he has some elements of both. I was going off of this high school video of Dickerson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCBnWmGvw8w which had several runs that reminded me of Toby http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOCKIwYzkV0

Both the Toby works video and the one I made of 2008 are missing a few of his better runs. Hopefully I can find footage of all his games before draft time.

from the bowl game footage you are right, they look more like finesse backs compared to Toby who looks like an elusive power back. Toby looks to have a bigger and stronger lower body which would give him more power.Edited by: dwid

 

[whiteathlete33]

NFLDraftScout has some nice things to say about Toby. Here is the quote "Gerhart's bullish running helped the Cardinal beat a hot Oregon team in Palo Alto, 51-42. The 6-1, 235-pound back displayed his power, bowling over defenders and moving the pile to gain 223 yards on 38 carries and score three times against a Ducks defense that had quieted USC Halloween night. He's not purely a power back, though; once in the open field, Gerhart has a nice burst to get into the secondary. Gerhart's 1,217 rushing yards and 16 touchdowns have put him in the Heisman hunt, as well as a chance of being selected in the second round like Rutgers' Brian Leonard was in 2007."  The only thing I don't like about this is the comparison to Brian Leonard.  Does every white skill position player have to be compared to another white?

 

[sport historian]

NFLDraftScout has some nice things to say about Toby. Here is the quote "Gerhart's bullish running helped the Cardinal beat a hot Oregon team in Palo Alto, 51-42. The 6-1, 235-pound back displayed his power, bowling over defenders and moving the pile to gain 223 yards on 38 carries and score three times against a Ducks defense that had quieted USC Halloween night. He's not purely a power back, though; once in the open field, Gerhart has a nice burst to get into the secondary. Gerhart's 1,217 rushing yards and 16 touchdowns have put him in the Heisman hunt, as well as a chance of being selected in the second round like Rutgers' Brian Leonard was in 2007."  The only thing I don't like about this is the comparison to Brian Leonard.  Does every white skill position player have to be compared to another white?

That's the way it has been for as long as I can remember, which is nearly 50 years. White players are compared only to other white players. For example, when SMU's Craig James was a pro prospect, he was compared to John Cappelletti. James was called by scouts a "quicker, faster John Cappelletti."

I previously wrote on the Forum that Cris Collinsworth complained during his rookie year about being compared to white WR's instead of someone like James Lofton.

The best Gerhart can hope for is to be compared to John Riggins, who made the HOF.

The exception to this I can recall was Joe Don Looney in the mid-1960's. Looney was compared to Jim Brown in his combination of speed and power.

 

[kre08]

Whiteathlete, while you're certainly right about whites being compared to whites (I began noticing this phenomenon at age 10 before I had the slightest inclination into any sort of race matter, it's just so blatant), I don't know if I'm necessarily against the mention of Leonard because it didn't compare him in his style of play to Leonard. While that certainly wouldn't be an insult because I've gotten to watch Brian living in Cincinnati and in his limited touches he has picked up quite a few down right amazing "no-chance" first downs. I think the comment actually is a shade positive to our cause in that it shows awareness of the difficulties whites running backs face in the NFL draft. The author didn't compare him to Brian Leonard on any other level except his draft chances so I can only figure the reasoning for that blurb at the end in regards to Leonard is a sliver of awareness to the plight of the white running back.

 

[whiteathlete33]

At least they are acknowledging that his stock is going up.  They really can't say anything else with the monster numbers he has been putting up lately.  I wouldn't be surprised if he is the number one ranked runningback by the end of the season.

 

[whiteathlete33]

Check this trash out from fftoolbox.com. "Gerhart is a good, overall prospect with limited upside. His lack of explosiveness will most likely confine him to an H-back type of role in the NFL."  Are we ever going to get any respect?

 

[Colonel_Reb]

The idea of Toby being an H-Back is ridiculous to me, although I could see him stuck as a 3rd down back somewhere. I do hope Toby impresses with his 40 time at the Combine, but it may not make a lot of difference in the end. Where he gets drafted (round) and who drafts him (team) will have some bearing on how much he'll play, but in the end it will be the coaches who will decide on whether to give him a fair opportunity to play or not.

 

[whiteathlete33]

Some of the comments are ridiculous.  First they say he is athletic but that he may have to be an H-back.  He needs to end up on a team like the Browns who currently start the overrated Jamal Lewis.  Lewis was very good his first few season in the league but keeps putting up poor performances.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

Just curious fellers...what kind of vertical leap, bench press & squat #'s does Toby put up? Anyone know?

 

[whiteathlete33]

315 bench 495 squat with a 30 inch vertical.  I found this on Scout but this may be his high school numbers.  I am sure his bench is much higher now.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

Thanks WA33. That sounds like his HS #'s indeed (impressive for HS). I'm sure Toby's throwing up bigger #'s nowadays. We'll see come combine time.



Edited by: DixieDestroyer

 

[whiteathlete33]

He is going to run in the low 4.5's to high 4.4's in my opinion.  I think his vertical will have increased to maybe 33-34 inches.  He should also be benching at least 350lbs.  

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

I think that's pretty spot on WA33! Toby reportedly ran an electronic 4.48 in H.S, but the NFL combine track surface is a little slower. His explosion has probably improved a little though:

I think he will broad jump around 10 feet, run a short shuttle in the 4.00-4.25 second range and run a 10 yard clip somewhere around 1.45-1.55, with a vertical right around what you predicted. I think he could probably bench 225 lbs. around 24-28 times times and squat around 600 lbs. at this point. Bottom line: He's a freak!

 

[Electric Slide]

Does anyone think Toby could stand to lose 10 to 15 lbs to improve his 40 time a little bit? I know this is what Brian Leonard did going into the combine. While Toby is in excellent shape and has little fat on him, trust me this is not a knock on him, but from my own experience and those of fellow athletes it looks like he could shed a few pounds of fat, but obviously not much though. He has all the tools at his disposal to be able to do this both at Stanford and after while training for the combine. He could easily cut off what I think he could in 6 to 8 weeks. While as much as we love to think our favorite athletes do all the "right things" with their diet, etc, trust me I know that even athletes who look like their in incredible shape like to indulge in things after games, even during the season. This is just a thought for debate, not a criticism of Toby at all.

 

[Electric Slide]

I know there's dozens of articles on Toby coming out now (and for good reason!), so I won't post the whole thing, but I was surprised that Toby is one of five kids whose dad played RB too! It will take more families like this to continue to break the caste system. When all the kids do sports it becomes a family tradition, where there's always various games going on year round and all the family members can cheer each other on, compete against each other for fun, etc. For all the dads with young kids on here, please encourage all your kids to do sports! It's not the end of the world if they don't keep doing it, but your encouragement certainly helps! Here's the excerpt:

Gerhart also received an insider's tip on the Trojans from his brother Garth, a center at Arizona State. USC escaped from Tempe, Ariz., last Saturday with a 14-9 victory.

"He said they should have beaten them," said Gerhart, who hails from an athletic family. (Dad was an all-conference running back at Cal State Fullerton and played professional football, while Teagan and Kelsey, a pair of triplet sisters, are freshman softball players at Stanford).

Here is the rest of the article:

http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2009/11/12/stanfords-gerhart-battering-opposition/

 

[Westside]

Here is the plan of attack for Toby to go middle to upper first round.

1. Nail a 4.45 / 4.47 time in the forty as well as master the other skills at the combine. A good idea would be to spend a couple of weeks at Don Beebe's speed camp.

2. Hire an agent with specific instructions to advise all NFL teams interested that "I will not consider being a battering ram. I am a tailback nothing less."

3. Hire or get advice of PR firm to help craft talking points on his desire to play only tailback.

4. Look at the careers of Hester, Leonard and Hillis. Is this where you want to be? NO. Never settle for second fiddle.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

ES, that might be a good idea for Toby to cut to 220-225 for the combine to increase his 40 y/d, shuttle & vertical leap #s. However, if the caste system plays out (as usual), he'll have to gain the weight back to play FB in the NFL.

He should adhere to the advised Westside mentioned, and hope he can break the caste lock on RB in the NFL.

 

[Westside]

If Toby subscribes to my strategy and in facts has an outstanding combine including a great forty time and is not picked in the middle to upper levels of the first round. Then it can be clearly stated that discrimination is afoot to the MSM and the powers that run the NFL.

When Woodhead had that incredible combine to go along with his off the charts 40 time, people could always say, "oh, he is too small, he won't be able to stand up to the rigors of the NFL runningback", but in the same breath give Sporels of the Chargers a pass and not the same critisism.

With Toby, he has ALL the measureables, size, balance, speed and track record in playing major college ball. Yes, if the same old sh*t happens, then Toby should sound cry discrimination, say F you to the NFL and hello baseball.