There is a simple obvious reason that there are no white corners in the NFL

[chris371]

Heres a question: Where are the black Sir Isaac Newtons, Leibnizs, Archimedes, Playfairs, Napiers and similar mathematic geniuses?

I guess questioning black aptitude in maths is racist and downright goshdarn not nice, but questioning white ability is absolutely fair.

Heres one of those inferior athletes:

[video=youtube;IasVsxJnpmk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IasVsxJnpmk[/video]

 

[Don Wassall]

3- "Hip flexibility" is the way that scouts describe what they see on football tape. You know, the most important thing in evaluation. Time and again scouts that fall in love with 40 times are burned when they ignore bad tape. White players have bad tape. These coaches see them every day in practice. They see them get burned/not get separation. They dont have the scheme that bellichek has to cover up weaknesses, so they would rather spend time developing mental aspects than physical deficiencies. Again, no one has offered up the idea that coaches would purposefully set superior white athletes aside for black ones.

So again, this is a subjective, magical quality possessed only by blacks. In other words purely a racial (racist) argument, something that can be described but not measured. And you talk about us believing in "conspiracy theories"!

I would love to present these same scouts with tape of players that are obscured in such a way that it is impossible to tell the race of the player. I would be willing to bet that under such a scenario Whites would be very well represented among those with "good" tape and "good hip flexibility." In fact, I look forward to the day when this takes place in a courtroom -- various scouts and self-proclaimed recruiting and drafting experts, under oath, watching videotape of prospects of indeterminate race and then subjectively proclaiming which ones have good "hip flexibility."

 

[whiteathlete33]

Lot of comments to reply to, but ive got things to get into so i will try to get to them quickly.

1- Thank you Wassal, your post was fairly informed and was actually on topic. To address you point, yes i am aware of the bell curve, the IQ testing stuff etc, and much like the IQ testing stuff, it is clear that there are more prevelant cultural elements to explain it other than any sort of "bias" on a particular group. I am sure there are some whites who could play cornerback in the NFL, but they are more likely playing reciver, soccer, baseball, or pursuing a life outside of sports. Maybe this is what the caste system speaks of in some way, but im still skeptical of the way many of you are presenting it (as if there is some grand conspiracy against whites BY OTHER WHITES to make this happen) thank you for this link, i will give it a look before i post again.

2- Andre Rison, Lawrence Taylor, etc were all REALLY GOOD. Matt Jones was not. Yes he was learning a new postion, but he didnt do it well, and being a project, he shouldnt have been drafted in the 1st. Heins Ward, , Antwan Randle el Jerry Porter(from the raiders, might be the wrong name) and a bunch of other converts turned out great but were also drafted in 3 rounds and later. It was not discrimination. He was given 5 years to pan out, he didnt, AND he had off the field problems. I can name plenty of black players (Quincy Carter, Lawrence Phillps, Maurice Clarett) that were just as average and suffered the same fate. He had one season of 700 yards, and 2 touchdowns in like his 4th year. Sorry that is not good enough. He is a bust be realistic, it hurts your entire argument when you are this unreasonable.

3- "Hip flexibility" is the way that scouts describe what they see on football tape. You know, the most important thing in evaluation. Time and again scouts that fall in love with 40 times are burned when they ignore bad tape. White players have bad tape. These coaches see them every day in practice. They see them get burned/not get separation. They dont have the scheme that bellichek has to cover up weaknesses, so they would rather spend time developing mental aspects than physical deficiencies. Again, no one has offered up the idea that coaches would purposefully set superior white athletes aside for black ones.

4- Eric crouch was too slightly built to be a nfl running back which is why reciever seemed more logical... safety? IDK why that was an option.

5- The only valid point thus far came from Seattle fan. I definitely think there may be some smoke to the fire of big time football programs not giving white corners a chance in recruiting. That actually makes sense. Still, when they are getting the TOP recruits at the position, why would they put in too much work recruiting novelty players.

6- How many white QBs actually have had 4.5 speed in the last 15 years? Some of you guys sound just as bad as black fans defending Mike Vick.

Crouch was slightly built? But I guess Warrick Dunn wasn't? Give me a break!

Jones had breakout season and would have hit a 1,000 yards if not for the suspension.. Do you actually read the posts? He was quickly kicked from the league. Zabransky, Crouch, Frost, and Jones all had 4.5 speed or better but never got to play the position.

 

[Liverlips]

"Eric crouch was too slightly built to be a nfl running bac"

He was 6', 210. How is that too slight?

 

[Liverlips]

"3- "Hip flexibility" is the way that scouts describe what they see on football tape. You know, the most important thing in evaluation. Time and again scouts that fall in love with 40 times are burned when they ignore bad tape. White players have bad tape."

How is hip flexibility measured?

 

[Riddlewire]

Matt Jones also was riding the white horse if you know what i mean... Not to mention that he was never all that good...

Don, you can close the thread now. This fraud finally exposed himself.
I doubt he even watches football. He just caught some "red flag" words in a Google search and decided to troll here.

 

[dwid]

Andre Rison was very inconsistent and if you want to say Crouch was slightly built, Rison was like 180 pounds at 6'1. I am sure there have been lesser talents that have done worse, its just not as widely known, no one cares to hear if some guy like Jabar Gaffney was doing coke behind the scenes. Mediocre black guys get cut all the time? how do you explain Mike Williams, you realize he has been in the league since 2005 right? hasn't done a damn thing. Jones showed more than he has, and Jones wasn't a receiver. None of the people you listed put up the stats Jones did his last year. Hines Ward doesn't count ,he played a little bit of quarterback one year, that doesn't make him a qb. Was where he drafted his fault? no. Randle El came close to Jones 760 yards with 728, which he accomplished his 6th year in the league. Jones put up 400 yards his first year, 600 his 2nd and had a slight downfall his 3rd, and then 760 his 4th, thats 4, not 5 and then out of the league. Getting 3rd string reps for the Bengals doesn't count (btw he looked good in the preseason he got cut) but of course you had Chris Collinsworth talking about "his strides are too long" "they are trying to shorten his stride length but I don't think he can do it", no place in the league for a 6'6 receiver, regardless of what he ran? I'm not buying it, if he were black he wo9uld still be in the league. Pacman Jones is not a special talent, whats the deal with that? I would say he is below average actually. Jerry Porter didn't do anything until his 5th year in the league, and played a good deal of receiver in college, he only played qb part time, hence the name "superman" because he played a bunch of different positions, but his main position was wide receiver and was familiar with it when he came into the NFL. Never broke 1k and stayed in the league until he was 30 and had some off the field issues.

 

[celticdb15]

6- How many white QBs actually have had 4.5 speed in the last 15 years? Some of you guys sound just as bad as black fans defending Mike Vick.

Dual threat white QBs since '99, not all have the 4.5 speed you requested however; off all the Black Qb's who have run in the 4.5 range only Culpepper,Vick, and Young have had success in the pros. The rest have either faded out from the league or made a position change. Intelligence not speed is Qb's best quality..


1.. Blaine Gabbert (4.61)
2. Jake Locker (4.51)
3. Dan LeFevour(4.6)
4. Stephen McGee(4.6)
5. Tim Tebow(4.7)
6. Kevin O'Connel (4.61)
7. Jared Zabransky(4.56)
8. Bruce Gradkowski(4.59)
9. Stefan Lefors(4.56)
10. Aaron Rodgers(4.7)
11. Alex Smith(4.7) with an impressive 3.96 agility
12.Luke McCown(4.7)
13. Kyle Boller(4.61)
14. Josh McCown(4.59)
15.Christian Ponder(4.63)

 

[dwid]

Im pretty sure that Culpepper ran a 4.6, doesn't make a difference. Tebow is probably the best runner out of all of them and runs a 4.7, still qualifies him as a running qb. Blount ran a 4.7 on the same track and in terms as a runner is a top talent, but can't catch, run block or anything else which is why they are looking for someone else to pair with him.

So basically the biggest thing you can't get over is Whites screwing over other Whites?

 

[White Lightning]

The book "Taboo" that you brought up by Jon Entine is a load of crap and you know it. He states in the book that there would never be another white to win a medal in the sprints. Then along came Wariner in the 400 meters and he has won gold medals. Wariner is the most constistant 400 meter sprinter on the planet over the last 8 years. He has either finished 1st or 2nd in the overall standings.

Then you have Christophe Lemaitre who became the only sprinter of any color to ever win 3 gold medals at the European Championships. Why hasn't a black sprinter accomplished this if they are so superior? He followed that up finishing 4th in the 2011 World Championship 100 meters finals despite being dead last out of the blocks. Then he went on the win a bronze medal in the 200 meters at those same World Championships. How does Jon Entine explain this. His theorys and yours don't stand up to facts. You will see more whites in all of the sports that are you call (black dominated sports). It's all about stereotypes and old wifes tails.

Peyton Hillis will not be the last white running back. Many more will come and there will be many more Wes Welker types. No one in the NFL is as good as him at the wide receiver. You only pick and choose what studies fit your agenda there for you are guilty of the same bias you claim we have here. Whites can compete and win in any sport with good genetics and hard work. Sorry if you can't deal with that!

 

[Truthteller]

Cleary my posts are too long and you arent reading them. I pretty much already said this but...

Yes, I've ignored 99% of your rambling, pro-caste agenda posts because they are way too long, but did catch one glaring nugget:

Matt Jones also was riding the white horse if you know what i mean... Not to mention that he was never all that good, he was outperformed by Earnest wilford half the time. He was one of many 1st round reciever bust from Jacksonville along with R.J Soward and.....

As another poster (WA33) pointed out, in his final season in the NFL Matt Jones was on pace for a 1,000 yard season (at the age of 25), prior to his suspension, despite having a mediocre quarterback that only wanted to "dink and dunk" the ball all the time.

Do the math for Matt Jones' final season: 761 yards, divided by 12 games equals about 63.4 yards per game...then mulitply that 63.4 x 16 (full NFL season) and it comes out to about 1,015 yards in his last season. His reception total would've projected out to 87 reception for a full season (minus the suspension). How is that a bust, anywhere close to RJ Soward's level?


Pardon my language, but you come off as a total jack@ss, comparing a guy (Jones) that was "purged" from the NFL after being on pace for a 87 reception/1,015 yard season to RJ Soward, who had a career total of 14 receptions for 154 yards?

 

[sport historian]

I wonder if they noticed that Walter Payton couldn't score a td in Super Bowl and that Riggins was the sole reason for the Redskins post season dominance, and btw you do realize he was like in his 30's with the Redskins? he was just as quick and had more straight line speed than Walter Payton in his early days with the Jets. This was after knee injuries etc. before the scientific advances with surgeries etc, yet this over 30 rb was still able to hang with an integrated league. Look at LT, one of the most gifted backs to come on the scene, he looks like crap in his 30's, and he has struggled to hang, never played on the slightest injuries even in the postseason, definetly couldn't carry the ball 30+ times a game like Riggins did.

I've observed football for over 50 years. Comparing Riggins and Payton, Riggins had more straight ahead speed than Payton ever would before a knee injury in 1972, and still might have later on. I first saw Riggins play as a Kansas sophomore in 1968. Even as something of a plowhorse type in Super Bowl XVII, Riggins was able to break a long run at a critical moment.

 

[sport historian]

There have been many articles over the last half dozen years from the "mainstream" press detailing how star White running backs are not recruited by the major programs. They are mostly from smaller newspapers dealing with individual White players, but nonetheless there are a number of them. We had some of them linked in a thread, started I believe by Tough J Riggins several years ago. I'm too busy right now to go digging for them. Also, J. B. Cash has documented some of these articles in his columns, and links to other articles detailing how White RBs are not recruited can be found elsewhere on the site.

OP, your position is that there is not a single White football player in the country capable of playing cornerback in the NFL, is that correct? That year after year, decade after decade, the best White cornerback prospects are inferior to the worst of the black CBs in the NFL, and that this is caused by a lack of "hip flexibility" possessed by every single White athlete.

Have you ever heard of the Bell Curve? For example, even though blacks score significantly lower than whites on IQ tests, there are still a number of very intelligent blacks. Does the Bell Curve not also apply to straight line speed, e.g., even if blacks on average can run 40 yards in a straight line faster than the average White, nonetheless there will still be Whites who have exceptional straight line speed, especially given that there are roughly five times as many whites as blacks in this country.

Also, what football tests measure your hallowed "hip flexibility"? If "hip flexibility" is so vital to determining who deserves to be drafted by the NFL, why isn't it tested at the Combine and at Pro Days? "Hip flexibility" is a purely subjective, essentially made up characteristic used to justify the mythology surrounding the Caste System.

Don made this same point several years ago on the Forum in reference to running backs. He wrote that the assumption held by almost everyone was that the slowest, stiffest black RB was faster and more elusive than the most athletic white RB prospect in the United States.

 

[TwentyTwo]

Here is a decent article by a black writer in 11'(but he fails to recognize Craig James in 85' as last white RB to go over 1,000 rushing; mentioning 82' & Riggins instead)...even he CAN NOT understand WHY there are NO white starting CB's in the NFL???

Safety Harrison Smith at 6'-2" 214 was faster than 1/2 the CB's at the Indy Combine....

NO WAY this should be...yeah many white coaches/HS recruiters are racially castrated into believing "he does not pass the eye test"...maybe the way black QB's were treated in 60's/70's but now get ample opportunity now...happens to white skill position players NOW & since the mid 80's. I have a friend( black ex-college football) that says whites at skill positions are just not getting the opportunity.

Then you have idiot sportswriters saying Eric Decker is not a NFL-Caliber WR....WHAT??? Or so-called Draft experts saying Jordy Nelson was not a vertical threat out of college/who had to walk-on....WHAT???


Ghost! What Happened to the White Running Backs and Cornerbacks?
Maybe the good white athletes are just playing other sports or other positions. Yankees outfielder Brett Gardner can flat out fly. Jim Edmonds (from a few years ago) and Jacoby Ellsbury are also exceptional athletes that one could see on a football field. Landon Donovan and Clint Dempsey, who both have good speed and change of direction, could help revive the extinct positions as well.

What about the white wide receivers? Wes Welker, Anthony Gonzalez, Jordan Shipley, Tim Dwight, and Matt Jones are all exceptional athletes. It’s said a cornerback is a wide receiver who can’t catch. So wouldn’t that make a wide receiver a cornerback who can? How many corners truly play at a dominant level in the NFL? Five tops. Darrelle Revis, Nnamdi Asomugha, Charles Woodson, Asante Samuel, and Champ Bailey. Everyone else gets burned countless times each Sunday. Might Welker be more valuable to the Pats as a shutdown corner? Or would that just be too weird?
Hell, even the five guys just mentioned get worked as well. There has to be at least one white guy with enough athletic ability to perform as well as the mediocre corners playing right now.

So why is it that when San Diego Chargers free safety Eric Weedle was coming out of the University of Utah as a cornerback, he was switched to safety? Weddle was damn good in college. Did the Chargers even give him the chance to play cornerback?


Have you heard of Christophe Lemaitre? He’s a white sprinter from Annecy, France. At 21 years old, he’s the fastest person of non-West African ancestry....like ever. He earned that distinction this past July when he ran a 9.92 100m at the French National Championships in Albi. Lemaitre’s 9.92 at 21 is faster than former World record holder, Asafa Powell, who held the distinction from May 2005 until May 2008. Lemaitre is also faster than two-time world champion, Tyson Gay, was at 21. What’s the excuse for young Christophe not being good enough? If Raiders owner, Al Davis, knew about this kid he would have drafted him.

At some point, there will be a white corner who’s going to shock the football world. He’ll have flash and dash, maybe some tattoos and a cool visor, too, but he’ll also have instincts, smarts, and toughness…a white Deion Sanders. Whenever that day comes, we'll be waiting. It’s hard to deny that when a white guy is toting the rock from the I-formation or in man-to-man coverage on the island that it doesn’t look strange in a really freaking cool sort of way.


*remainder of article
http://www.complex.com/sports/2011/...he-white-running-backs-and-cornerbacks/page/2

 

[spiritofspook]

Some interesting comments, sadly very little of it is grounded in reality.

1- Nothing hurts the credibility of this site more than having so many of you vehemently defend Matt Jones. Matt Jones was a first round bust. Was he as bad a bust as RJ Soward, no, Rashan Saalam, no, Ryan Leaf, no, but he is still a bust. He played 4 years in the league and the only solid year he was having ended after he violated his plea agreement based on being arrested on cocaine possession. He isnt out the league because he is white, he is out the league because he was never that good. 4 years is usually all a 1st round player gets with his first team to pan out; however, a first round bust with drug arrest is likely to see less chances. In fact, he was likely cut by the Bengals to make room for another younger cleaner white receiver in Jordan Shipley. That 2010 team also had two of the most prolific WRs of the last decade in Terrel Owens and Chad Johnson. Bot of those guys are knuckleheads, but they have never had any legal issues and they had been elite receivers for years. The point is that even with his rare athletic ability Jones suffered the fate of many other 1st round busts. He didnt live up to his measurables and he was replaced. You cannot blame it on a lack of opportunity as he had 4 years to figure it out. He is not who you all should be defending, it makes you look unreasonable and silly, much like many black fans of Mike Vick who still act as if he was a hard working clean guy BEFORE he got caught dogfighting.

2- Thank you to whomever posted the list of sub 4.5 quarterbacks. I asked for that in order to disprove the notion that sub 4.5 white QBs were being discriminated against. It is clear that most sub 4.5 QBs were given ample chance to succeed with the exception of Locker who looked good in limited time last year. Unironic that you mentioned that Black QBs with sub 4.5 speed were consistently converted to WR. That proves my underlying point about Tim Tebow, but i guess in a way proves yours. Why were Zabransky or Stefan Lefors not asked to switch to receiver. It could be that they didnt have "loose hips" like their black counterparts Brad Smith and Antwan Randle El, or it could be that it was assumed that Brad Smith and Randel El were not smart enough to play the game. Either way you could cry foul. However the claim that sub 4.5 forty QBs are "discriminated" against holds no merit. There were only 5 in the last 13 years and 2 of the 5 (not including locker who was a 1st round pick) were given ample time to play and become starters (gradkowski and McCown).

3- Many people are claiming Taboo to be "full of crap" but have given little support as to why. Is it the bible on genetics and athletics? No, but it provides logical arguments supported by scientific evidence, research, and reality. The fact there are very few whites in the NBA who are leading in rebounds (despite the fact that non American whites have seen a resurgence in the NBA) is not "crap" its an example of a missing element to their game, its just as non racial as the fact that top free throw and 3 point shooters have been white for decades. Is the three point line racist? White players are not rebounding forces (aside from Kevin Love) because even the 7 footers cannot jump with many of the black players. They lead in perimeter and free throw shooting becuase they spend more time honing those skills to compensate for things they are not good in. Reggie Miller is a good example of the same phenomena in a different color. Miller did not have springs in his legs to be an inside presence, so he honed his shooting ability and made himself a star.

In fact, Taboo brings up the fact that much of this anti white phenomena is social stigma and self induced fear based on stereotypes. So in a way he endorses the theory that there is a "caste" system. He just acknowledges that in certain cases, it is based on real tangible elements of the game. Running and jumping sports are going to be dominate by black athletes because we are better at running and jumping. I have heard even the most vitriolic white supremacists admit this. What white athletes, coaches, scouts, etc need to do is stop cutting white players out of certain positions with stereotypical assumptions. However if they do this, the run a greater risk of failure. They know this, which is why these white athletes dont get the same shot at big time college programs (a very good point brought up earlier) which precludes them from NFL stardom. But lets be honest, this is not some sinister movement by the powers that be, it is a bad habit based on media induced perception, stereotypes and factual information.

I am 5-11 265 pounds of mostly muscle. My thighs are the size of many peoples torsos. My shoulders are broad, my chest is thick, and my calfs are large. I look much fitter than men who weigh 50 pounds less than me. However, all my life i have dissapointed coaches with my completely average athletic ability considering my appearance. I remember as a kid having coaches (white and black) come up to me and say "Boy you look like a football player" only for me to hit the field without much to offer. High school was worse in that both my older brother and sister were star athletes before i got there and I was expected to carry on tradition. Unfortunately I was more of a mathlete. I look the part but I am not fit for the distinction of "athletic black guy". Stereotypes of black athletes didnt do much to mask the fact that i had marginal athletic ability.


On the other hand, I also have dreadlocks and dark skin. I am between the ages of 16 and 38. I drive a black and red SS Monte Carlo which is a popular car with drug dealers. I am a fan of hip hop and have no problem playing it at high volume with my windows down. I have had that car for less than 2 years and have been pulled over 6 times without getting a single ticket. I look the part of "drug dealer" or "thug" but i am far from deserving of that distinction. However, stereotypes of black criminals don't do much to mask the fact that I am not a criminal. But because I "fit the description" I get pulled over a lot. I chalk it up to God and keep moving. I recognize that the stereotype of me being a drug dealer is based on real elements that I cannot deny. Although racial profiling and other issues like that are bothersome, the truth is that if black crime were not so disproportionate to white/other crime (as well as disproportionately scrutinized much like black athletes) I wouldnt get pulled over so much.

If I saw me walking down a dark alley I would cross the street. When a coach sees Wes Welker (2004 undrafted FA now a top 10 WR) standing next to Raushon Woods (2004 31st overall pick that was out the league in a few years) they assume that the 6ft 2 200 pound black guy is probably going to be a better player the 5 ft 10 white guy because he looks the part.

I guess that line of thinking is where this "caste" system idea holds some validity. However, that is the extent of it. What you all need to do is spend more time promoting white athletes WHO ACTAULLY DESERVE OPPORTUNITIES (not Matt Jones) and less time tearing down black athletes, and white coaches/owners/scouts who are simply hedging their bets on the naturally gifted running and jumping abilities of their black athletes. It is not as if Black players have failed to deliver on their promise. Sure Mike Vick didnt pan out, but Donovan Mcnabb was a top 5 QB in his prime, along with Daunte Culpepper, Steve Mcnair, and Warren Moon. Sure Roy Williams and Mike Williams have done little, but Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, AJ Green, Calvin Johsnon, and other "prototypical" receivers have proven the formula right.

When you do so (not all of you mind you) you come off bitter, angry, and to many minorities and "progressive" whites kinda scary. Thats the thing about the white nationalist movement. If the rhetoric of it was not so tinged with aggression and malcontent, it would be easier for it to get traction in the mainstream.

 

[dwid]

The Matt Jones argument is not stupid, but you act like its the only one we have. Where is this 4 year rule thing at? 1st round pick at number 4, Cedric Benson has had several off field issues with police and he didn't do squat for his first 4 years, and I am supposed to believe that he was somehow great after rushing for 1k with 3.5 ypc his 5th year? and still failing to reach 4 ypc in last year? You speak as if Brad Smith is this great player, he is still in the league, and he is a gadget player. Matt Jones didn't live up to where he was picked, but if given enough time I am sure he would have. Usually first round picks get more time than later round picks, regardless of what they do. The league wanted to make a big fuss about him because he is one of the few White athletes that got in trouble with the law. There are many lesser known black players that have numerous offenses with dui's, domestic abuse etc, all swept under the rug. If he were black he would still be in the league. At his age, still young, there is still a spot in the league for a 6'6 receiver with sub 4.4 speed, doesn't matter if the only thing he can do is stretch the field (Devery Henderson) or move the chains (Anquan Boldin), he will be in the league, why would he have to replace Shipley, another White receiver? There are more than 3 wide receiver spots, why not one of the blacks who sat at the 4th and 5th spot? Why no other team interested? Speaking of first round picks who don't live up to expectations, Reggie Bush is one of them, he still has a role in the league and he finally put up 1k, but from 2006-2010, despite tons of injuries, he still served as a ROLE PLAYER. If you can carve out some type of role in the NFL then you deserve the be there. If you have proven you can put up 760 yards in 12 games in a dink and dunk offense, that proves you have a role in the league. There are tons of number 2's and 3's.who never put up more. This whole 4 year thing and out is a load of crap and you know it.

There are more "prototypical" black players because more are given a chance. For every success story there are dozens who didn't pan out. There is a much smaller ratio of Whites that have failed because so little are given the opportunity, and usually the ones that do are good. Why didn't Jake Sharp get a chance, Eric Peterman? Brock Forsey? No combine invite for Jeremy Ebert, Tyler Shoemaker? go look through the forums of guys who had the size/speed prodcution to match but never given a chance. I have to run, but I am sure others can further prove you wrong.

 

['sup bro?]

i don't root for white athletes because of some perceived hated of other races, nor do i root for whites because of some perceived blackballing.

no

i root for white athletes because i am white too. and i don't hate who i am.

 

[spiritofspook]

i don't root for white athletes because of some perceived hated of other races, nor do i root for whites because of some perceived blackballing.

no

i root for white athletes because i am white too. and i don't hate who i am.

There is nothing wrong with rooting for a player because you identify with them. However, when i see stuff like "affirmative action league draft" it diminishes the idea that some of the rhetoric on this site is not clearly based on an arbitray dislike of black players. You may not be a participant in that but the tone is clear overall.

Back to Matt Jones

Dwid- Cedric Benson was cut by the Bears after his second off the field infraction in his THIRD YEAR (maybe im not the one that needs research) he was then picked up for chump change by the rag tag Bengals where he went on to finally have some productive seasons. Some NFL teams (like the Bengals) are willing to deal with whatever as long as a player is productive Also none of his arrest were as big a red flag as cocaine possession.

Here are a few first round busts that were at least off of their original team by the end of their 4th year
Reggie Williams
Byron Leftwich
Reggie Nelson
Derrick Harvey
R.J Soward
Renaldo Wynn

BTW this is just from the short history of the Jacksonville Jaguars. First round players get 3-4 years to pan out and then they are at least gone from their first team. If they are any good (and with no character issues 2 things that Jones cannot claim) they get on with another team maybe. Otherwise they are out the league. It happens to players all the time. In the case of Jones, he was already behind Owens, Ochocinco, Shipley, and Simpson. The next 2-3 receivers need to play special teams. Maybe he was a liability there. He also would definitely have cost more than undrafted rookies do to the veterans scale. Either way he had done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DESERVE A SECOND CHANCE. He had no great seasons, no clear flash of his potential, AND he had already violated a court order to stay sober because he had gotten caught with cocaine. Also lets talk about this dink and dunk offense crap. Larry Fitzgerald has had nothing but dink and dunk QBs, Welker gets all his work on dink and dunk passes, Anquan boldin (i cant beleive you tried that comparison Boldin has been one of the best WRs in the league for years) had the same thing and these guys all clearly produced. Earnest Wilford put up numbers with Leftwich and Garrard. Mike Sims walker put up numbers. Marcedes Lewis put up numbers. Matt Jones had one decent (not good) year that was shortened because he didnt follow a court order. Please move on from him, he is a horrible example for your plight.

Further examples of your lack of logic. Reggie Bush was definitely a bust, but he was still a good gadget role player on a team that won a superbowl. AND when he got the chance to be a real running back he shined. No comparison.

You keep bringing up all of these guys like Forsey, Sharp, Maehl, etc, and fail to realize that there are just as many black players with the same measurables and production who had just as little opportunity. I will not deny that them being white at their position may have been a slight disadvantage, but if these guys were better they would be in the NFL. They were not good enough to stick around. Jordy Nelson was a 2nd round pick, Tim Dwight had a 10 year career, Wes Welker went undrafted and has been a force since he had his first shot. Brian Finneran, Brian Hartline, Ed Macrefry, etc all played in the league for years. These other guys just werent up to snuff. They werent AJ Green/Calvin Johnson. Those are Prototype receivers. The last thing close to that was Matt Jones...

 

[Woody]

If Welker hadn't of finally gotten his shot you would say the same things about him, "he just wasn't good enough."

The fact that he was unrecruited, undrafted, didn't start for a while just proves our point. Do you think scouts gave him a fair shot? No?

Do you think it's funny that EVERY black QB who has had any success has been drafted in the first round, yet late round white QBs (Brady) or undrafted (Romo) have success? Could that be due to the fact that ANY black QB showing ANY skill whatsoever is hyped through the roof and into the first round, usually to bust?

 

[whiteathlete33]

There is nothing wrong with rooting for a player because you identify with them. However, when i see stuff like "affirmative action league draft" it diminishes the idea that some of the rhetoric on this site is not clearly based on an arbitray dislike of black players. You may not be a participant in that but the tone is clear overall.

Back to Matt Jones

Dwid- Cedric Benson was cut by the Bears after his second off the field infraction in his THIRD YEAR (maybe im not the one that needs research) he was then picked up for chump change by the rag tag Bengals where he went on to finally have some productive seasons. Some NFL teams (like the Bengals) are willing to deal with whatever as long as a player is productive Also none of his arrest were as big a red flag as cocaine possession.

Here are a few first round busts that were at least off of their original team by the end of their 4th year
Reggie Williams
Byron Leftwich
Reggie Nelson
Derrick Harvey
R.J Soward
Renaldo Wynn

BTW this is just from the short history of the Jacksonville Jaguars. First round players get 3-4 years to pan out and then they are at least gone from their first team. If they are any good (and with no character issues 2 things that Jones cannot claim) they get on with another team maybe. Otherwise they are out the league. It happens to players all the time. In the case of Jones, he was already behind Owens, Ochocinco, Shipley, and Simpson. The next 2-3 receivers need to play special teams. Maybe he was a liability there. He also would definitely have cost more than undrafted rookies do to the veterans scale. Either way he had done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DESERVE A SECOND CHANCE. He had no great seasons, no clear flash of his potential, AND he had already violated a court order to stay sober because he had gotten caught with cocaine. Also lets talk about this dink and dunk offense crap. Larry Fitzgerald has had nothing but dink and dunk QBs, Welker gets all his work on dink and dunk passes, Anquan boldin (i cant beleive you tried that comparison Boldin has been one of the best WRs in the league for years) had the same thing and these guys all clearly produced. Earnest Wilford put up numbers with Leftwich and Garrard. Mike Sims walker put up numbers. Marcedes Lewis put up numbers. Matt Jones had one decent (not good) year that was shortened because he didnt follow a court order. Please move on from him, he is a horrible example for your plight.

Further examples of your lack of logic. Reggie Bush was definitely a bust, but he was still a good gadget role player on a team that won a superbowl. AND when he got the chance to be a real running back he shined. No comparison.

You keep bringing up all of these guys like Forsey, Sharp, Maehl, etc, and fail to realize that there are just as many black players with the same measurables and production who had just as little opportunity. I will not deny that them being white at their position may have been a slight disadvantage, but if these guys were better they would be in the NFL. They were not good enough to stick around. Jordy Nelson was a 2nd round pick, Tim Dwight had a 10 year career, Wes Welker went undrafted and has been a force since he had his first shot. Brian Finneran, Brian Hartline, Ed Macrefry, etc all played in the league for years. These other guys just werent up to snuff. They werent AJ Green/Calvin Johnson. Those are Prototype receivers. The last thing close to that was Matt Jones...

Jones was one of the rare white athletes drafted on potential and not on past production. He wasn't drafted because of college performances. He was drafted because of tremendous upside which almost every black player is supposed to have. Even his second season having started only 4 games he had 643 receiving yards. When he finally started his last season he would have had a 1,000 yards if not for the suspension. If he were black, he'd be given 5 more seasons as a starter.

 

[Truthteller]

If Welker hadn't of finally gotten his shot you would say the same things about him, "he just wasn't good enough."

The fact that he was unrecruited, undrafted, didn't start for a while just proves our point. Do you think scouts gave him a fair shot? No?

Exactly. I think the "only" reason Welker got a chance at all in the NFL is because he just happened to return 2 KO's for touchdowns during the 2004 pre-season, as a member of the Chargers. If the place-kickers that kicked off to him had stronger legs and kicked the balls out of the endzone (touchbacks), the lowly, undrafted free agent would've had almost ZERO chance to ever play in the NFL. As it was, as impressive as Welker performed for the Chargers in the summer of 2004, he was still cut by the team after only one regular season game. And was also given up on in Miami, despite having a few real productive seasons in South Florida.

We know how Wes' story will likely end -- in the Hall of Fame, if he has a few more 100 reception, 1,000 yard seasons. But, again, if those kickers in the 2004 pre-season possessed stronger legs, he'd have been cut a long ago and almost no one would know his name. More importantly, trolls like this guy would be telling us "you are beyond crazy if you think a guy like Wes Welker could ever start in the NFL"...."you are crazy to think he ever possessed the talent to be anything more than a practice squad guy behind the real athletes, because he's not up to snuff"...blah, blah, blah. Same bull$hit; different day; different poster.

By the way, this troll has already been warned by Don about following our posting guidelines (this being an opponent free site). He's cleary crossed the line, so I suspect it will be just a matter of time before he's banned. Don, just a suggestion, in order to discourage more trolls like this, I would delete ALL of his posts, in addition to just banning him. Let him go over to Blackathlete.net, or whatever Afro-centric site he posts at. It will be tons of fun for him and his pro-black friends: They can bash white men and white male athletes left and right, 24 hrs a day/7 days a week.....then in their lounge section they can slobber lovingly over Michelle Beadle, Erin Andrews and every bleached blonde white women on the planet. Most of these ultra "Proud black men" are nothing less than prideless, self-hating Uncle Toms below the surface. Don't believe me, look at the plight of black women in modern day America.

 

[Don Wassall]

Don, just a suggestion, in order to discourage more trolls like this, I would delete ALL of his posts, in addition to just banning him.

It's been a good thread, as far as reiterating some of the basics of the Caste System in a way that lurkers can comprehend, given that so many great threads here are now lost in the mists of time and buried by hundreds of thousands of subsequent posts. It's also been a lively thread, which is a good thing considering that the board has been lethargic in recent weeks. It's not necessarily a bad thing to let an opponent on here for a while now and then, especially one who's polite and somewhat knowledgeable.

 

[sport historian]

It's been a good thread, as far as reiterating some of the basics of the Caste System in a way that lurkers can comprehend, given that so many great threads here are now lost in the mists of time and buried by hundreds of thousands of subsequent posts. It's also been a lively thread, which is a good thing considering that the board has been lethargic in recent weeks. It's not necessarily a bad thing to let an opponent on here for a while now and then, especially one who's polite and somewhat knowledgeable.

Agreed.

 

[Truthteller]

It's been a good thread, as far as reiterating some of the basics of the Caste System in a way that lurkers can comprehend, given that so many great threads here are now lost in the mists of time and buried by hundreds of thousands of subsequent posts. It's also been a lively thread, which is a good thing considering that the board has been lethargic in recent weeks. It's not necessarily a bad thing to let an opponent on here for a while now and then, especially one who's polite and somewhat knowledgeable.

I agree to some degree, Don, and respect the fact that this is your website and you can do as you want, but what has this poster really added in the last day?

All he seems to do is "insult" CF posters and white athletes we support on this site in a "polite way". In the short term, this might create a buzz here at CF and up the post counts, but if this continues most regular posters will simply igore him and eventually leave, as this will be no different from your typical DWF website where we are constantly told "sports is the ultimate meritocracy" and "race is never factor, it's all about winning games".

Again, my guess is as the next few days go forward, people will stop responding to his posts, because he's not here to be objective. Not even close. He's here to remind us everything we believe in is wrong or crazy. I brought up Matt Jones and asked how it was fair that a guy who was on pace for a 87 reception, 1,015 yard never, ever played in another regular season NFL game and all his responses to my post (and others on the Jones topic) were still evasive and very condescending:

What you all need to do is spend more time promoting white athletes WHO ACTAULLY DESERVE OPPORTUNITIES (not Matt Jones) and less time tearing down black athletes, and white coaches/owners/scouts who are simply hedging their bets on the naturally gifted running and jumping abilities of their black athletes

Some interesting comments, sadly very little of it is grounded in reality....

Why were Zabransky or Stefan Lefors not asked to switch to receiver. It could be that they didnt have "loose hips" like their black counterparts Brad Smith and Antwan Randle El, or it could be that it was assumed that Brad Smith and Randel El were not smart enough to play the game. Either way you could cry foul. However the claim that sub 4.5 forty QBs are "discriminated" against holds no merit.

White players are not rebounding forces (aside from Kevin Love) because even the 7 footers cannot jump with many of the black players. They lead in perimeter and free throw shooting becuase they spend more time honing those skills to compensate for things they are not good in.

Wow, these are some great, intelligent words. I'm sure if I looked closer, I could find another few dozen more gems like those above, but why bother? Matter of fact, his screen name should've been "Big Jeremy Schaap Fan", because he's pushing the same exact agenda.

Caption: Photo of spiritofspook's favorite "white man"?

 

[Don Wassall]

Truthteller, I wasn't referring to his posts -- I've already forgotten them even as I already know what they are because they are the typical arguments of Caste System proponents -- I'm talking about the responses to him, which are solid posts and are educational for lurkers who are trying to understand our viewpoint better and some of the arguments we use to back up what we believe in.