The Rovian Politics of "Upside"

[Pie]

I have to wonder if Karl Rove formed his lifelong political strategies as a young man watching football. After all, his political years started in the late 1960's, around the same time the Caste System was coming into its own. OK, so maybe that's a bit of a stretch, but whenever I hear the term "upside" used about athletes, I can't help but think about the cornerstones of Rovian politics. For those unfamiliar, Rove likes to employ two primary strategies(besides the usual political staples of lying and cheating):

1. Attack your opponents strengths, as though they are a weakness.
2. Transfer your own weakness to your opponent.

(Just as a frame of reference, think back to the 2004 Bush/Kerry campaign, and the whole swiftboating episode, and how Bush's weak military experience managed to become Kerry's in just a few months in popular perception. Enough of Presidential politics, though)

The essence of talent evaluation in the NFL has been consumed by the same sort of twisted logic. And it has been supremely successful. Consider the traits we most commonly see associated with players of different races: Black athletes get to have upside, White athletes get to be hard working. "Hard working", a positive White trait, has been corrupted into meaning that someone has peaked, and cannot become more than what they are now. Upside is a word used to convince the sheep to ignore all logic and statistics, and to just believe that one athlete is going to be more special than any reality indicates.

Hard working vs Upside

I probably wouldn't get much of an argument around here if I said that work ethic is a trait your average White athlete has more of than your average Black athlete, but I believe it goes much deeper than that. In terms of an athletes potential to get scouted to the next level, from HS to college, or college to the NFL, the term "hard worker" is actually a good example of a black weakness that has been transferred to, and is used against White athletes. When you are gauging a players potential upside, who possesses more? Take two players, both put up comparable numbers in HS/College, both are of similar size, measurables, etc. Kid 1 has focused on nothing but sports their entire life so far, blew off school, put their entire future into the possibility of making it to the pros. Kid 2 was a well rounded kid with many interests, who put effort into both school and sports, knowing that even if he didn't make it to the pros at least he would still have a future. Who probably has more upside? It's obvious to me that if both athletes have similar output, that Kid 2 possesses more potential "upside" when you consider that he hasn't even truly dedicated himself to the sport yet, and is managing to put out comparable numbers to his peers who sold out 100% to athletics at a young age. While there are exceptions to every rule, I think it is obvious which race's athletes have a tendency to fall under which of those 2 examples. Then of course there is the biological reality that Whites physically mature at a slower rate than Blacks. Again, logically, who possesses more "upside," the kid who puts up his stats from playing HS ball against kids, of whom half of them were biologically a year younger than himself, or the kid who put up equivalent numbers while half of the players he played against were a year more physically mature?

From all of that, I believe your average White kid possesses more upside, while your average Black kid has probably put more single minded effort into playing sports at the school level. The Rovian Caste System has attacked the White strength of upside and given it to Blacks, and has taken the Black weakness of being illogically focused purely on athletics from a young age, and has transferred it to White athletes as a backhanded compliment. The same thing has happened to the very nature of athleticism. Whites are very well rounded athletes. How many times do we see a kid put up amazing all around numbers at a pro day or combine only to have his athleticism questioned? He could be in the top 5 of his position in virtually all metrics and would be attacked, and torn down by the media for the one he was 6[SUP]th[/SUP] in. His one dimensional Black counterpart puts up a good 40 time and the fact that he is a low endurance weakling who struggled on agility drills is forgotten. From strength to weakness, from weakness to strength.

It was bad enough when I joined CF and started recognizing the code words, the backhanded compliments against productive white players, and the undeserved praise and second chances heaped on mediocre would-be criminals. Now that I've started viewing everything through the lens of corrupt political games... reading scouting reports, DWF posts, and MSM sports articles has become downright depressing. Thanks for indulging my rant.

edit: maybe I should have put in the media stereotyping forum.

 

[The Hock]

That's some deep stuff there bro.

I think you're on to something.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

excellent post, sir.

members have discussed those issues several times in the past, but i don't recall anyone else having connected the Caste System mythos to a specific political/philosophical method before. of course, i'm not counting Cultural Marxism as a specific method since it covers such a vast array of political/philosophical practices.

 

[jaxvid]

Nice post Pie. Not a rant at all but a well thought out and stated concept. I think it's absolutely true. I also think it is part of the way that Cultural Marxism is promoted. Anyone familiar with the writings of some of those commie nutjobs that pull the strings behind obama? Like Dorn or Ayers? I bet they preached this same thing to their acolytes.

 

[Carolina Speed]

I have to wonder if Karl Rove formed his lifelong political strategies as a young man watching football. After all, his political years started in the late 1960's, around the same time the Caste System was coming into its own. OK, so maybe that's a bit of a stretch, but whenever I hear the term "upside" used about athletes, I can't help but think about the cornerstones of Rovian politics. For those unfamiliar, Rove likes to employ two primary strategies(besides the usual political staples of lying and cheating):

1. Attack your opponents strengths, as though they are a weakness.
2. Transfer your own weakness to your opponent.

(Just as a frame of reference, think back to the 2004 Bush/Kerry campaign, and the whole swiftboating episode, and how Bush's weak military experience managed to become Kerry's in just a few months in popular perception. Enough of Presidential politics, though)

The essence of talent evaluation in the NFL has been consumed by the same sort of twisted logic. And it has been supremely successful. Consider the traits we most commonly see associated with players of different races: Black athletes get to have upside, White athletes get to be hard working. "Hard working", a positive White trait, has been corrupted into meaning that someone has peaked, and cannot become more than what they are now. Upside is a word used to convince the sheep to ignore all logic and statistics, and to just believe that one athlete is going to be more special than any reality indicates.

Hard working vs Upside

I probably wouldn't get much of an argument around here if I said that work ethic is a trait your average White athlete has more of than your average Black athlete, but I believe it goes much deeper than that. In terms of an athletes potential to get scouted to the next level, from HS to college, or college to the NFL, the term "hard worker" is actually a good example of a black weakness that has been transferred to, and is used against White athletes. When you are gauging a players potential upside, who possesses more? Take two players, both put up comparable numbers in HS/College, both are of similar size, measurables, etc. Kid 1 has focused on nothing but sports their entire life so far, blew off school, put their entire future into the possibility of making it to the pros. Kid 2 was a well rounded kid with many interests, who put effort into both school and sports, knowing that even if he didn't make it to the pros at least he would still have a future. Who probably has more upside? It's obvious to me that if both athletes have similar output, that Kid 2 possesses more potential "upside" when you consider that he hasn't even truly dedicated himself to the sport yet, and is managing to put out comparable numbers to his peers who sold out 100% to athletics at a young age. While there are exceptions to every rule, I think it is obvious which race's athletes have a tendency to fall under which of those 2 examples. Then of course there is the biological reality that Whites physically mature at a slower rate than Blacks. Again, logically, who possesses more "upside," the kid who puts up his stats from playing HS ball against kids, of whom half of them were biologically a year younger than himself, or the kid who put up equivalent numbers while half of the players he played against were a year more physically mature?

From all of that, I believe your average White kid possesses more upside, while your average Black kid has probably put more single minded effort into playing sports at the school level. The Rovian Caste System has attacked the White strength of upside and given it to Blacks, and has taken the Black weakness of being illogically focused purely on athletics from a young age, and has transferred it to White athletes as a backhanded compliment. The same thing has happened to the very nature of athleticism. Whites are very well rounded athletes. How many times do we see a kid put up amazing all around numbers at a pro day or combine only to have his athleticism questioned? He could be in the top 5 of his position in virtually all metrics and would be attacked, and torn down by the media for the one he was 6[SUP]th[/SUP] in. His one dimensional Black counterpart puts up a good 40 time and the fact that he is a low endurance weakling who struggled on agility drills is forgotten. From strength to weakness, from weakness to strength.

It was bad enough when I joined CF and started recognizing the code words, the backhanded compliments against productive white players, and the undeserved praise and second chances heaped on mediocre would-be criminals. Now that I've started viewing everything through the lens of corrupt political games... reading scouting reports, DWF posts, and MSM sports articles has become downright depressing. Thanks for indulging my rant.

edit: maybe I should have put in the media stereotyping forum.

Nice post Pie, but I believe one has to have actually worked or trained with athletes both black and white to truly see the difference in how the black athlete looks at what his plight is versus the white athlete.

As you said there are truly exceptions to the rule, but black athletes are hardworking toward one goal as I believe you stated, but whites are able to work on more than one goal at the same time. Hell, some white athletes rarely work hard in the classroom for an "A" while you see some black athletes rarely work hard on the track or football field and are or seem to be natural athletes and vice versa. It's really a complicated subject.

Yes, some white athletes look at athletics and academics and say, I can always rely on education, and there lies much of the problem. How can we or the media say the white athlete is hardworking when he has the excuse of, "oh well" I have my education to fall back on.

I said, as an early poster here on CF, that we have to be better in all aspects, morally, in the classroom, academically, athletically, etc. or it means nothing.
NO EXCUSES!

Speaking of whites maturing slower than blacks, whites are probably holding their kids back at the same rate as blacks. It used to be that we pushed our kids ahead. When I was in school there was always a kid a year or 2 younger than me in my class. he was the smartest kid in the class! My son will graduate HS at 17, while others will be almost 19. Now, we hold our children back, part of the dumbing down of society, " We Can't Beat Them, " so let's join them. It's killing the maturation of white kids! I don't believe in holding kids back. The leading rusher in N.C. was barely 16 when he led the state with over 3,000 yds/278 carries in the largest classification 4A, in N.C. in 2012! How do you explain that? I know there are other stories of young white athletes outperforming blacks, but if we stoop to their level, we will never be better.

Right Pie, transfer the weakness onto your opponent. That's exactly what the Cultural Marxist have done, dumbed the whites down to the level of the weak minded, maybe that's why there are so many (DWF's).

I don't believe blacks physically mature faster than whites, but the PTB have successfully convinced many of us they do!

Please read my post on the Track and Field thread," just run baby run" about black and white athletes.

Don't you see, many here have been convinced that blacks physically mature faster, someone give me one reason why they believe this, it's BuJJ$hit! An Excuse! We have to stop making Excuses!

Sorry for the rant, I really enjoyed Pie's post, but I'm not buying in to the fact that blacks are in any way superior to whites!

 

[Awake in America]

I don't believe blacks physically mature faster than whites, but the PTB have successfully convinced many of us they do!

Sorry for the rant, I really enjoyed Pie's post, but I'm not buying in to the fact that blacks are in any way superior to whites!

How is a faster maturation process superior? Saying something happens at an earlier age for them on average is not an indication of superiority. The bones in their skulls also fuse much earlier, halting brain development. It's not helpful, but I guess they "beat us" at that because it happens earlier.

 

[Thrashen]

From all of that, I believe your average White kid possesses more upside, while your average Black kid has probably put more single minded effort into playing sports at the school level. The Rovian Caste System has attacked the White strength of upside and given it to Blacks, and has taken the Black weakness of being illogically focused purely on athletics from a young age, and has transferred it to White athletes as a backhanded compliment. The same thing has happened to the very nature of athleticism. Whites are very well rounded athletes. How many times do we see a kid put up amazing all around numbers at a pro day or combine only to have his athleticism questioned? He could be in the top 5 of his position in virtually all metrics and would be attacked, and torn down by the media for the one he was 6[SUP]th[/SUP] in. His one dimensional Black counterpart puts up a good 40 time and the fact that he is a low endurance weakling who struggled on agility drills is forgotten. From strength to weakness, from weakness to strength.

That was a stunning overall post brimming with dozens of great points. Very nicely done, Pie. Thanks for the quality post!

 

[Carolina Speed]

How is a faster maturation process superior? Saying something happens at an earlier age for them on average is not an indication of superiority. The bones in their skulls also fuse much earlier, halting brain development. It's not helpful, but I guess they "beat us" at that because it happens earlier.

I don't believe that it is, but, the fact that it has been referenced here many times as a reason why blacks may have an athletic advantage. If one doesn't believe that, then why is it brought up in conversation.... or am I misunderstanding why it is mentioned when athletic ability between blacks and whites are discussed here?

 

[Awake in America]

I don't believe that it is, but, the fact that it has been referenced here many times as a reason why blacks may have an athletic advantage. If one doesn't believe that, then why is it brought up in conversation.... or am I misunderstanding why it is mentioned when athletic ability between blacks and whites are discussed here?

I guess it's a matter of how you define "superior". It is an advantage in middle school, and a big reason why white coaches fall in love with black players. They are older for their grade on average (plenty of studies to back this up, and it shouldn't surprise anyone), and do reach puberty earlier on average (again, plenty of science to back that up). The black kids don't have any more upside. They are grown and done by 17, and are probably already a baby-daddy, at a time when many white kids are just coming into their own, and the Asians are way the hell behind.

I've personally seen this in sports with my own kids. There was a 5th grade black girl in our flag football league who I have no doubt could carry a child. I also have no doubt that she's dumber than a fence post, and that's why I wouldn't draft her. In track the 5th grade events were dominated in every meet by one black boy who looks like he's 14 years old. He already has muscles. His upside is pretty limited. My own kid looks like an above average sized 10 year old. By 18 he will very likely be taller, stronger, and faster (and probably a grade ahead) than that kid. Right now, they don't remotely look like they are in the same age range.

Children are not adults, and we do not develop the same way blacks do, with brain and skull being the most obvious examples. Blacks walk earlier on average, too. So do gibbons. That doesn't make them superior. Again, children are not adults. They are works in progress, and blacks are not "just like us".

 

[Carolina Speed]

I guess it's a matter of how you define "superior". It is an advantage in middle school, and a big reason why white coaches fall in love with black players. They are older for their grade on average (plenty of studies to back this up, and it shouldn't surprise anyone), and do reach puberty earlier on average (again, plenty of science to back that up). The black kids don't have any more upside. They are grown and done by 17, and are probably already a baby-daddy, at a time when many white kids are just coming into their own, and the Asians are way the hell behind.

I've personally seen this in sports with my own kids. There was a 5th grade black girl in our flag football league who I have no doubt could carry a child. I also have no doubt that she's dumber than a fence post, and that's why I wouldn't draft her. In track the 5th grade events were dominated in every meet by one black boy who looks like he's 14 years old. He already has muscles. His upside is pretty limited. My own kid looks like an above average sized 10 year old. By 18 he will very likely be taller, stronger, and faster (and probably a grade ahead) than that kid. Right now, they don't remotely look like they are in the same age range.

Children are not adults, and we do not develop the same way blacks do, with brain and skull being the most obvious examples. Blacks walk earlier on average, too. So do gibbons. That doesn't make them superior. Again, children are not adults. They are works in progress, and blacks are not "just like us".

I guess it's hard for me to believe that blacks mature physcially faster for some of the reasons you've mentioned and in my own children and experiences with both white and black athletes.

When I was in middle school there was only one black athlete who looked more physically mature and I chalked it up to the fact that he was 15 in the 8th grade, a full 1 year and half older than most 8th graders. I was 15 my sophomore year in High School! This has also happened with white kids where I'm from. There were 2 white kids that dominated middle school football, because they were 15 almost 16 and the white coaches fell in love with them also, but once in high school, neither one made a big splash, they were good, but not great. Then as I said before, the leading rusher in the state of N.C. (2012) in the largest classification rushed for over 3,000 yds. at barely 16 (Junior) years old and WHITE! How does one explain his physcial maturity, athletic ability, etc. or is he just that good and or what's he going to be like at 19 or 20?

Then with observing and sometimes coaching elementary to middle school kids as well as my own children. We had a 3rd/4th grade football team and this one black kid was 10 almost 11 and still in the 4th grade, my son was a young 3rd grader and had just turned 8, so naturally there's going to be a difference in a 10 year old versus a 8 year old. Maybe this is the norm now, 15 year old 8th graders and 16 year old freshmen!

My point was, it used to be that we pushed kids to be better, now many white parents hold their child back thinking it will give them some advantage mentally and physically. In some cases this may be true, but it's not something I agree with what would seem to be a normal child. To me you get better by being challenged both mentally and physically, not by pulling back the reigns so to speak.

Maybe you are correct in saying that blacks physically mature faster than whites, scientifically, I do not know as much as I should, but how do you explain the white athletes who seem just as mature or good at the same age or younger? Just exceptions to the rule? I just don't want white folks making excuses, if that's what's meant by saying blacks physically mature faster, so this gives them an athletic advantage.

 

[Pie]

My point was, it used to be that we pushed kids to be better, now many white parents hold their child back thinking it will give them some advantage mentally and physically. In some cases this may be true, but it's not something I agree with what would seem to be a normal child. To me you get better by being challenged both mentally and physically, not by pulling back the reigns so to speak.

Maybe you are correct in saying that blacks physically mature faster than whites, scientifically, I do not know as much as I should, but how do you explain the white athletes who seem just as mature or good at the same age or younger? Just exceptions to the rule? I just don't want white folks making excuses, if that's what's meant by saying blacks physically mature faster, so this gives them an athletic advantage.

That's because you are a good, traditional White parent who has not been brainwashed by decades of media abuse. My post wasn't about anything that I believe you, as an individual, should be acting on.

I see what you are saying, Carolina Speed, and I agree that White parents should be pushing their children to succeed, and in a fair world we would see our kids achieving at a much higher rate at all walks of life. Saying that Blacks physically mature faster though, is just because they hit puberty at a younger age. Like others in the thread have said, this creates a false sense of athletic supremacy amongst coaches, scouts and DWF's since they will see a middle school or high school Black kid looking on bigger and more developed at an earlier age, and this is where it all starts. The inability to see(or perhaps, just for it to be mentioned in polite company) the racial differences leads to the false notion of greater athletic ability. I mentioned this in relation to the White running back who is able to lead his state in rushing, the notion of "upside" should truly be in his favor because odds are he hasn't even physically peaked yet. We have been robbed of Upside, something young White men have in tremendous quantity.

 

[Carolina Speed]

That's because you are a good, traditional White parent who has not been brainwashed by decades of media abuse. My post wasn't about anything that I believe you, as an individual, should be acting on.

I see what you are saying, Carolina Speed, and I agree that White parents should be pushing their children to succeed, and in a fair world we would see our kids achieving at a much higher rate at all walks of life. Saying that Blacks physically mature faster though, is just because they hit puberty at a younger age. Like others in the thread have said, this creates a false sense of athletic supremacy amongst coaches, scouts and DWF's since they will see a middle school or high school Black kid looking on bigger and more developed at an earlier age, and this is where it all starts. The inability to see(or perhaps, just for it to be mentioned in polite company) the racial differences leads to the false notion of greater athletic ability. I mentioned this in relation to the White running back who is able to lead his state in rushing, the notion of "upside" should truly be in his favor because odds are he hasn't even physically peaked yet. We have been robbed of Upside, something young White men have in tremendous quantity.

Pie, your post was awesome and I understand it. I was just trying to expand upon the point you made about transfering your weakness onto your opponent. By bringing white children down to lower levels by such means as holding them back or putting less intelligent children with advanced, because we don't want to leave any child behind could be understood as an idea used against self loathing white people who buy into those ideas. This technique could be used in many aspects of life not only in intellect, but in athletics, music, art, etc. In a much simplar form called dumbing down, which is what has happened over the last 30 years. Does this make sense?

The Hock posted, this is deep stuff, I guess too deep for me to effectively explain what I was thinking.

It went into another direction. My apologies, Pie.

Thankfully, some of us, including CF members have made it through and haven't succumbed to these brainwashing techniques.

 

[jaxvid]

That blacks mature faster is settled scientific theory, unless you are a marxist PC supporter. The concept of "live fast, die young" is an evolutionary scheme, look up the noted scientist Arthur Jensen for the best explanation. The basic idea is that people that delveloped in the tropics had an advantage if they grew up fast and reached reproductive age quickly, while those in the northern climates were more successful in delayed development which allowed for more complex brain formation so as to handle the difficulties of preparation for winter weather.

There are exceptions of course but there is also very good data to support the concept.

I don't think this is an issue of superior/inferior, just scientific fact. It's a subject we have discussed many times on this site and I thought it was basically a settled issue.

 

[Awake in America]

... how do you explain the white athletes who seem just as mature or good at the same age or younger? Just exceptions to the rule? I just don't want white folks making excuses, if that's what's meant by saying blacks physically mature faster, so this gives them an athletic advantage.

I completely agree with you about whites not making excuses, and none of this does anything other than make the caste system all the more obvious. As for holding kids back, I know for a fact that one of the best defensive players in college football history was held back purely for athletic reasons. I tend to not like that idea either, and his best friend went on to a pretty outstanding college career without it.

As to your question about how to explain the white kids that are just as mature, excellent question. We are more diverse than they are in just about every way, and we outnumber them in this country for the moment. There are lots of whites who have a good build for running, there are very few blacks built well for swimming or weight-lifting. That's why the "our diversity is our strength" thing is so absurd; we are already diverse, without mixing with other races. Blacks and Asians are not.

I've enjoyed the discussion, mainly because it gets to where and how this stuff starts. Youth league and middle school coaches aren't following the orders of Jew NFL owners, but they are impacted by what they see in the NFL and college games. The blacks always have "upside", but it never seems to materialize. They are seeing something, but it's not upside, and it might be the opposite.

 

[wile]

I'm pretty much going to go with science over Blank Slate Theory Marxist magic humdrum. Blacks do reach puberty before whites on average, but they have such a steep decline they can keep it. If football and college athletics were not in a hurry whites would be in a better position as well as Asians, but it is a business and they gotta keep the seats full in those stadiums. My athletic peak was from 26 to 32 years of age, and at age 50 I'm one very fit looking dude. Tyrone was a stud at 18, he now is a fat diabetic, too bad for him.

 

[Tannehill17]

The whole concept of "upside" is the reason there are so many busts in the NFL nowadays. What happens is mediocre college players with high physical attributes, that coaches hope they can somehow mold. However this usually backfires as said players are never able to overcome bad fundamentals and they go from being mediocre college players to poor pro players. The NFL draft has become so unwatchable due to this line of thinking.

 

[Pie]

The whole concept of "upside" is the reason there are so many busts in the NFL nowadays. What happens is mediocre college players with high physical attributes, that coaches hope they can somehow mold. However this usually backfires as said players are never able to overcome bad fundamentals and they go from being mediocre college players to poor pro players. The NFL draft has become so unwatchable due to this line of thinking.

Plays into the whole plantation owner mentality of a lot of these owners/GM's/coaches. The White Man's burden in sports is apparently to take blacks who have managed to spend the last 10 years playing a sport without somehow picking up the basics and mold them into contributors. If they fail to live up to expectations, they get second chances, it wasn't the players fault after all, blacks cannot be expected to carry that responsibility. Their previous handlers just failed to build a better player out of their potential.

 

[Awake in America]

Plays into the whole plantation owner mentality of a lot of these owners/GM's/coaches. The White Man's burden in sports is apparently to take blacks who have managed to spend the last 10 years playing a sport without somehow picking up the basics and mold them into contributors. If they fail to live up to expectations, they get second chances, it wasn't the players fault after all, blacks cannot be expected to carry that responsibility. Their previous handlers just failed to build a better player out of their potential.

That's a really good point. The assumption is always that they haven't already had good coaching, which is hilarious. Another assumption is that they haven't already had weight training, which is also hilarious. Most of these players come from good high school programs, and from Division I-A college programs. They have already physically peaked, and have no more "upside", apart from fat (and a new PED regimen).

Another factor that plays into the "upside" dynamic actually has to do with skin color itself. Any white player that doesn't tan before the NFL combine is a fool. Even if he's very fair, he needs to get a fake tan. Muscular definition stands out more against darker skin. I'm the same guy on the same workout plan as I was on four months ago, but after some outdoor work over the last couple of weeks, I look a lot more muscular. There's a reason bodybuilders get tan. A huge part of "upside" comes from the slave auction part of the combine. The scouts look over the players in their underwear (yes, it's quite gay). Ripped=upside. It would probably also help to pinch a couple of scouts on the rear end, but I can't recommend that in good conscience.