The Dakota schools - FBS material?

[MostDangerous]

The Dakota schools continue to dominate the FCS and even some FBS teams every year. What are the chances that any of them make the jump to FBS? I know they are in the North so they wouldn't fit well in the Sun Belt, but it'd be great to get these programs up in the top ranks so they can really shine...

 

[Don Wassall]

I bet you could make up two or three teams just of players from the low population states of South Dakota, North Dakota and Montana, give them the same kind of coaching and facilities that SEC teams provide, and they'd give most or all of the SEC teams a run for their money. Throw in Minnesota, which turns out a lot of top high school talent, and they'd dominate.

 

[Jack Lambert]

Who knows, the WAC might invite them, since they're losing Boise, Fresno, and Nevada.

 

[qj]

Not a good idea in my opinion. The population of Montana and ND is very, very low. In MT, the U of M gets first crack at the best footballers in MT. Because of this, they usually have an excellent FCS team as their record shows. However, if they went into the WAC, the pressure would be on to get a bunch of S. Californians, and the team would likely turn into a bunch of imports. Right now, the Griz absolutely pack their stadium with over 20k screaming, rabid fans. In the WAC, their record would likely stink at least for the first few years and the Griz crowds would likely crumble. So, the Griz would likely go from one of the top FCS programs stocked with the best local talent to a mediocre (at best) FBS team stocked with a bunch of imports. Not good at all in my opinion. I imagine the same is true for the ND schools. As it stands now, the ND kids usually put up a good fight, and I watched one of their schools stomp the gophers a year or two back. Like MT, their school is probably stocked with a lot of local talent. Why do we need to turn 'em into big mills like the FBS schools? BTW, the NFL has several young lads now who went to the UofM, including Mariani, Hilliard, Carpenter, Schillinger, and Bierman, and I'm sure a missed 1 or 2 or more. What's not to like?

 

[qj]

Just did a little roster checking and the NV Wolfpack has 70 imports from CA alone. I'd be willing to bet this team had a lot more locals when it was in the Big Sky several years ago. Boise State has 34 imports from CA, probably many more then they had when they were in 1-AA. In contrast, the Griz have 17 imports from California which is about 16 too many for my taste, but at least there are a lot of MT players, WA players and a few OR players. Montana State is known for it's imports. It has only 9 from CA, but someone in their program knows somebody from TX because there are 17 import Bobcats from TX. I was surprised to see, however, many, many MT names on the Bobcats' rosters, so it's not all that bad. About the only way a small population like MT could have a decent FBS team is to concentrate the local talent on 1 school and hope you get a large majority of the best local talent to stay and play. Personally, I like to see MT kids play at the MT schools and the ND kids play at the ND schools, etc.

 

[FootballDad]

Hey QJ, you act as though "imports from California" are necessarily a bad thing. California is a majority white state (still), especially Northern California. The problem isn't "imports from CA", it's black and poly imports. Most of the fantastic white players who still dominate out there are utterly ignored. I wouldn't mind a bit if they imported some of the terrific white CA talent that is currently wasting away, in the nations most populous state.

 

[Don Wassall]

Hey QJ, you act as though "imports from California" are necessarily a bad thing. California is a majority white state (still), especially Northern California. The problem isn't "imports from CA", it's black and poly imports. Most of the fantastic white players who still dominate out there are utterly ignored. I wouldn't mind a bit if they imported some of the terrific white CA talent that is currently wasting away, in the nations most populous state.

Californiabecame majority non-white in 2001. Texas, New Mexico and Hawaii are the three other states in which whites are a minority.

 

[celticdb15]

qj I agree Montana would have to leave the luxuries it has as a FCS powerhouse if it ever wanted to play in the FBS. But, look at teams like Boise State, Connecticut, USF. They all were FCS and have made the transition to FBS within the last 15 years or so. Not only have they made the transition, Boise has become a powerhouse.

Personally I think Montana and some of the North Dakota schools could immediately come in to alesser knownconference like the WAC and immediately make the league more competitive and watchable(from our stand point) and probably finish the season out at .500. Not only would theymakethe league more competitive, it would make more sense geographically(how is Lousiana Tech in the WAC??)It all depends what direction the school wants to take its program. Sometimes taking risks can pay off!

As for the "bringing in imports" or "getting more athletic" I think it depends on who is calling the shots. To me it seems like Montana and the Dakota schools have seen first hand what some of that "underrated" talent can do for their programs. If they have a coach who can recruit his area and can develop some of that homegrown pipeline talent, I don't think there will be much push to "get more athletic" of "get more black athletes."

 

[FootballDad]

Hey QJ, you act as though "imports from California" are necessarily a bad thing. California is a majority white state (still), especially Northern California. The problem isn't "imports from CA", it's black and poly imports. Most of the fantastic white players who still dominate out there are utterly ignored. I wouldn't mind a bit if they imported some of the terrific white CA talent that is currently wasting away, in the nations most populous state.

Californiabecame majority non-white in 2001. Texas, New Mexico and Hawaii are the three other states in which whites are a minority.

I should have clarified that white still make up the largest demographic (at least according to the latest census)at 41.7%. I don't see an enormous influx of Hispanic players into FBS schools, just blacks and poly "imports" Blacks are only 6.6% of the population in CA, yet for some reason are recruited at what must be virtually 100%. Even with only 41%, whites make up the majority of CA players, and I would wager, the better players. Why can't the Dakotas, Nevada, Montana, etc, recruit them?

 

[qj]

Hey QJ, you act as though "imports from California" are necessarily a bad thing. California is a majority white state (still), especially Northern California. The problem isn't "imports from CA", it's black and poly imports. Most of the fantastic white players who still dominate out there are utterly ignored. I wouldn't mind a bit if they imported some of the terrific white CA talent that is currently wasting away, in the nations most populous state.

I stand corrected somewhat. However, as a Montanan, I don't want to watch a bunch of kids from California down there on the field, white, black, green, whatever; I want to watch kids from Malta, Drummond, Belt, Saco, Frenchtown, Kalispell, Billings, Helena, Great Falls, Thompson Falls, Bozeman, Missoula, Chester, Havre, and Sidney down on the Field in Missoula, Carroll, and Bozeman. Understand? But, you're right about having at least a few California kids play in such places as Montana and North Dakota. I just don't want to get overrun like at Reno.


Edited by: qj

 

[qj]

BTW, I talked to my brother a while back, and he says there is local talk in Missoula about the Griz going into the WAC. It's kind of a problem right now because the Griz are a charter member of the Big Sky Conference. It's my feeling that there IS support at the local level for the Griz to step it up, and I'm sure they will be able to attract the talent necessary to compete in the WAC. Missoula is a really nice, "river runs through it" Montana town. A lot of people buy into MT as the "last best place," and Missoula (Bozeman too) is the center of that feeling. So, I think they'll be able to attract very good players, and probably a lot of quality white players from California and elsewhere. Hopefully, if they do make the transition, there will still be plenty of MT or at least E. WA players on the team. It certainly would not surprise me to see them go into the WAC in the near future. If they do, it'll mean higher stakes and more prestige if they win in the FBS. In any case, GO GRIZ!!!

 

[Electric Slide]

It would be nice to see Montana move up but stick with the white talent. As for local vs not local, keep as much local talent as you can but get good white kids from other parts of the west as well. Montana has had every opportunity to get a bunch of black kids there just like any other school, but they haven't really done that. I don't think moving to FBS would cause them to suddenly do this. Also, we have to remember the amount of black high school kids is declining combined with a decline in the kids that are there playing football anyway while it is staying steady with white kids. This is causing a bit of a crisis that will totally explode open in a few years. The poly kids are already stretched far to thin, so don't expect that to be an avenue. The only source where there's an overabundance of talent is with the white kids. There are tons of them playing in lower divisions or other D1 sports. This is the logical direction to go.

 

[MostDangerous]

The thing is, even if the Montanas and North Dakotas and South Dakotas start recruiting more black players (which they would almost certainly do if they moved up to FBS), it would open up positions on other schools for white guys.

I understand the philosophy for cheering for white-friendly schools, but the thing is, if you get a white guy to start on defense at Miami, you KNOW he's gonna be good. Same for schools like USC and Alabama. Yeah, some guys won't get a fair shot, but you have a higher chance of making it to the NFL as an average player on a top school than you do going to an FCS school (that even goes for a lot of black guys).

 

[jaxvid]

The thing is, even if the Montanas and North Dakotas and South Dakotas start recruiting more black players (which they would almost certainly do if they moved up to FBS), it would open up positions on other schools for white guys.

I don't think it will open up positions, it will just create openings for even worse black recruits. That is what has happened in college football at almost all positions. The "requirement" to have a black player at RB, CB, WR, etc has thinned the available talent pool to the level that you have guys that flat out aren't very good. Yet the people running the programs are oblivious to it, they just go out and get the next black guy on the recruiters all black top 100.

 

[qj]

Great posts guys. Perhaps a Montana or North Dakota school in the WAC would create even more FBS positions and prestige for more white kids in the West, and I'm all for that. We won't know until it happens, but the more I think about it, the more you guys, especially Electric Slide, make sense. Montana (and ND schools) probably would still try and recruit quality white kids from the West and the Midwest in the case of ND, including white kids in California. It also appears that Montana State has opened up a happy recruiting ground in TX, and there are many, many Montana kids still on the Bobcats roster this year. BTW, I happened to really like WAC and Mountain West football along with the Pac-10 (to a lesser extent). Lots of white kids playing in those schools. Overall, I like seeing integrated teams that don't discriminate against white or black kids, but also truly represent the name on their jerseys. In the case of Western teams, that means largely white teams because the West is largely white.

 

[devans]

Just saw North Dakota beat Sam Houston state.
They looked great, especially on defence. Some great white defensive linemen, safeties and CORNERBACKS!

 

[Carolina Speed]

I stand corrected somewhat. However, as a Montanan, I don't want to watch a bunch of kids from California down there on the field, white, black, green, whatever; I want to watch kids from Malta, Drummond, Belt, Saco, Frenchtown, Kalispell, Billings, Helena, Great Falls, Thompson Falls, Bozeman, Missoula, Chester, Havre, and Sidney down on the Field in Missoula, Carroll, and Bozeman. Understand? But, you're right about having at least a few California kids play in such places as Montana and North Dakota. I just don't want to get overrun like at Reno.


Edited by: qj

qj, I from Carolina, but I'd love nothing more than to see a white RB,WR,CB, from Montana, California, my state, wherever come to North or South Carolina, N.C. State,Wake Forest, Clemson, Duke and start and dominate at those positions!

 

[DixieDestroyer]

There's certainly been good athletes hailing from the Dakotas....Roger Maris (grew up in Grand Forks & Fargo, ND), Brock Lesnar (Webster, SD), Mike Miller (Mitchell, SD), Mark Ellis (Rapid City, SD), Adam Vinatieri (Yankton, SD), Darin Erstad (Jamestown, ND), Brooks Bollinger (Grand Forks, ND), Phil Hansen (Oakes, ND). Also, basketball coaches Dale Brown & Phil Jackson are from the Dakotas.

 

[Jack Lambert]

An Oklahoma fan I know told me that QB Josh Huepel was born and played football in Aberdeen, SD.