Ruslan Chagaev vs. Wladimir Klitschko

Westside

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Thanks Maple Leaf. Your right, Wlad's right is harder that Vitali's. Regarding Wlad's wins over Arreola and Haye, if he wins, the media will have no choice but to bow down to the towers of power and give them their acclaim and respect.

Based on Wlad's relaxed and focused performance the other night, his victories are indeed just mere formalities over the American and Englander. I would still love to watch Povekin ruin Haye's payday against Wlad though.
 

moose

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the media will never like the klitschkos because they are white and they have defeated so many blacks that the negrophiles in the media can not deal with it. Vlad and Vitali are the most dominating fighters I have ever seen, they dont just win, they dominate from start to finish. They are masters at the highest art in boxing, they hit and don't get hit.
 

JD074

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The only significant punch that Chagaev landed was a left hand that landed after the bell. One foul, that's it. Total domination. Wlad has never looked better.

Dwid, Wlad's inoculated, so he wouldn't contract the disease. The only concern would be people ringside, not Wlad.

As for popularity, Wlad and Vitali would be much more popular in America if they were American, particularly, Irish American or Italian American fighting out of NYC. Boxing is very tribal, fight fans root for their own. There just aren't enough "Ukrainian Americans" to root for him here, and white fight fans, in general, are too "deracialized" (is that a word? lol) to root for a white fighter who isn't from their country or city (like Pavlik,) or who doesn't share their nationality (Irish, Italian, Polish, etc.) Edited by: JD074
 

white is right

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Wlad is at his peak or very well near his peak. He won't lose to anybody for the next 2 to 3 years unless the other guy lands a massive bomb that he doesn't see coming. At the top the division is a strong as ever and even below the the 2 brothers it's still stronger than the junkies and Mansear wearers that fought in the Holmes and Tyson eras. Edited by: white is right
 

The Hock

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This match-up wasn't good enough for HBO. Then ESPN disses it by using some intern and a nobody fighter to cover it.

I'm beginning to think there is no love lost between Eastern Europeans and certain media types.
 

white is right

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You're right. the production quality for the fight was abysmal. While BJ Flores seemed decent, why was he chosen to do this assignment? Don't you have to be a star in boxing or a former star? As for the other guy he must have been pulled from covering monster truck pulls he was as colorful as vanilla ice cream...
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Alpha Male

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dwid said:
I cant believe this aired on ESPN classic, nothing was on regular espn except sportscenter, and the hour before that and old Tyson fight the hour before, not many people get espn classic

Pathetic, but predictable. And right after the Vlad fight, ESPN classics show Ray "Boom Boom" Mancini (white American from Ohio) losing by decision to some black islander (forget his name) in a major title fight. How could they show a live fight on ESPN classics that just happened???
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guest301

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Livingston Bramble was his name and it was a great fight when I watched it live in the mid 80's(Bramble/Mancini) but tired of seeing the same fights on ESPN classic all the time.
 
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JD074 said:
The only significant punch that Chagaev landed was a left hand that landed after the bell. One foul, that's it. Total domination. Wlad has never looked better.

Dwid, Wlad's inoculated, so he wouldn't contract the disease. The only concern would be people ringside, not Wlad.

As for popularity, Wlad and Vitali would be much more popular in America if they were American, particularly, Irish American or Italian American fighting out of NYC. Boxing is very tribal, fight fans root for their own. There just aren't enough "Ukrainian Americans" to root for him here, and white fight fans, in general, are too "deracialized" (is that a word? lol) to root for a white fighter who isn't from their country or city (like Pavlik,) or who doesn't share their nationality (Irish, Italian, Polish, etc.) [/QUOTE)

Yes, the Klitschko brothers would be more popular in this country if they were Irish or Italian Americans from New York. Being based in New York was an advantage for Cooney (and Mike Tyson, for that matter). They would have gotten more credit if they had won smashing victories over someone like Tyson or Holyfield.

Fighters from behind the Iron Curtain began to come to America around 1990, before the Soviet Union fell. A boxing magazine at the time had an article that said there would be fights like Rocky IV or the "Holmes-Cooney White Hope hysteria."

I never read anything by a boxing writer predicting that Eastern European fighters would bring back the white heavyweight champion. Sports media people in this country did not see it coming.
 
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guest301 said:
Livingston Bramble was his name and it was a great fight when I watched it live in the mid 80's(Bramble/Mancini) but tired of seeing the same fights on ESPN classic all the time.

Tomorrow and Wednesday, ESPN Classic is showing a bunch of Ali fights.
 

white is right

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To be fair I wouldn't have seen it from the initial crop too. Most were older veterans who couldn't make the national team anymore. The few good prospects that were young the media thought highly of. Ie Sergie Artemiev, Yuri Arbachakov and Gussie Nazarov. Wathcing Alexander Zolkin fight or seeing Yuri Valuen quit wouldn't have inspired me either..
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dwid

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Klitschko's name was on Pardon the interruption when they were going through a variety of topics at a fast pace, when they got to his name the guy said "who are these brothers? some type of golfers?" or something similar to that and then went to the next topic. Thats all the exposure they get on American tv!?...figures when earlier they said the US Open this year was of no significance, im guessing because tiger isnt doing great
 

guest301

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sport historian said:
guest301 said:
Livingston Bramble was his name and it was a great fight when I watched it live in the mid 80's(Bramble/Mancini) but tired of seeing the same fights on ESPN classic all the time.

Tomorrow and Wednesday, ESPN Classic is showing a bunch of Ali fights.


That's just more of the same stuff. I don't need to see the Ali/Wepner fight again. I want to see more of Wlad and Vitali's early title fights.
 
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guest301 said:
sport historian said:
guest301 said:
Livingston Bramble was his name and it was a great fight when I watched it live in the mid 80's(Bramble/Mancini) but tired of seeing the same fights on ESPN classic all the time.

Tomorrow and Wednesday, ESPN Classic is showing a bunch of Ali fights.


That's just more of the same stuff. I don't need to see the Ali/Wepner fight again. I want to see more of Wlad and Vitali's early title fights.

That's what I meant when I wrote that ESPN Classic was showing the Ali fights (again). Ali is on ESPN Classic more often than anyone else. Speaking of Wepner, he became the symbol of the white heavyweight loser. The press would ridicule a white heavyweight with, "His style is pure Chuck Wepner." Pete Axthelm wrote in Newsweek after Gerry Cooney lost to Larry Holmes something like, "Cooney was an echo of Chuck Wepner and other sad White Hopes."
 

guest301

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sport historian said:
guest301 said:
sport historian said:
guest301 said:
Livingston Bramble was his name and it was a great fight when I watched it live in the mid 80's(Bramble/Mancini) but tired of seeing the same fights on ESPN classic all the time.

Tomorrow and Wednesday, ESPN Classic is showing a bunch of Ali fights.


That's just more of the same stuff. I don't need to see the Ali/Wepner fight again. I want to see more of Wlad and Vitali's early title fights.

That's what I meant when I wrote that ESPN Classic was showing the Ali fights (again). Ali is on ESPN Classic more often than anyone else. Speaking of Wepner, he became the symbol of the white heavyweight loser. The press would ridicule a white heavyweight with, "His style is pure Chuck Wepner." Pete Axthelm wrote in Newsweek after Gerry Cooney lost to Larry Holmes something like, "Cooney was an echo of Chuck Wepner and other sad White Hopes."


Oh I knew what you meant by that Sport Historian all along and I should have made that more clear in my post. Just tired of seeing white heavyweight fighters from the 70's being shown geting their butt kicked when we got plenty of black fighters from the 90's and this decade to show getting beat up by white fighters. Somehow those aren't "classic" enough for ESPN Classic.
 

guest301

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sport historian said:
They are showing an Ali-Tyson marathon called "Ali or Tyson?" It continues tomorrrow.

They are asking the question who would win that fight if Tyson and Ali had fought in their prime. Who cares? I guess I would lean pretty much to Ali to pick apart the one dimensional Tyson but Tyson would always have the proverbial "punchers chance". I have always seen Tyson as the poor man's Joe Frazier.
 

white is right

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It's hard to tell the baby boomers that the emperor has no clothes. Ali has become a symbol of their youth. I find it hard to see how a relatively light punching small heavyweight could still dominate either Klitschko. Especially now that Wladimir is content to out box his opponents from the outside.
 

whiteathlete33

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white is right said:
It's hard to tell the baby boomers that the emperor has no clothes. Ali has become a symbol of their youth. I find it hard to see how a relatively light punching small heavyweight could still dominate either Klitschko. Especially now that Wladimir is content to out box his opponents from the outside.

Ali was good in his time but he is overhyped. That being said Ali would get destroyed by any of the top 20 heavyweights of today. Today's fighters are considerably stronger and faster than fighters from 30 years ago.
 

Maple Leaf

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whiteathlete33 said:
white is right said:
It's hard to tell the baby boomers that the emperor has no clothes. Ali has become a symbol of their youth. I find it hard to see how a relatively light punching small heavyweight could still dominate either Klitschko. Especially now that Wladimir is content to out box his opponents from the outside.

Ali was good in his time but he is overhyped. That being said Ali would get destroyed by any of the top 20 heavyweights of today. Today's fighters are considerably stronger and faster than fighters from 30 years ago.

You now guys, I make comment like that but with detailed and fair reasoning on boxing websites and many, many posters jump all over the comments and dismiss them as though they were preposterous. For them, and many are in fact white, to question the title-supreme of Ali is pretty much racism. Facts don't matter because, as they would say, most people "know" he was the greatest.
 

Westside

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Some poster here on this site stated,"never in the history of mankind, has a group (whites) ceded power so willingly to other groups." Whites who believe that Ali was the greatest are the dummies/whimps aiding/abetting in this cession of power.
 

jaxvid

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whiteathlete33 said:
white is right said:
It's hard to tell the baby boomers that the emperor has no clothes. Ali has become a symbol of their youth. I find it hard to see how a relatively light punching small heavyweight could still dominate either Klitschko. Especially now that Wladimir is content to out box his opponents from the outside.

Ali was good in his time but he is overhyped. That being said Ali would get destroyed by any of the top 20 heavyweights of today. Today's fighters are considerably stronger and faster than fighters from 30 years ago.

You guys are both right on. Another thing about Ali is that he really sucked in some fights. Wepner knocked him down, Norton broke his jaw, and most of his post Frazier fights were snoozefests as he rope-a-doped for 12 rounds, (the kind of thing that would get a Klitschko roasted by announcers today). I watch his fights today and he is lousy except for hand speed which is fine fighting 205 lb guys but he wouldn't have the power to go at it with the big heavy's today. Why is it every other sport is better then in the old days because of the superior conditioning of today's affletes---except for boxing. I think we know why.

People liked him for the show biz thing and his trash talking which was novel back then. It's not about his skill which is over rated because as you said they like to remember the ol' days.
 
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