white is right
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In the battle of the rock star's hair, Gene Simmons beat Robert Plant in a tight contest.....http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6078149
Polamalu wins AP Defensive Player of the Year!
- Thread starter white is right
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TheAnimal
Guru
Westside said:
The worst thing about this is Clay Matthews was robbed of the DPOY award.
Cassiodorus
Guru
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2006
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Shouldn't you have to be at least among statistical leaders in some category for this award? Apart from conquering dandruff and split ends, what measurable thing did this chubby girl do in 2010?
I love Clay Matthews as much as anyone, being from Milwaukee and a fan of the Green Bay Packers. I've watched every single game they played this year and while Matthews has been outstanding I don't believe he deserved DPOY honestly. Were it not for the first couple weeks where he racked up half his sacks he wouldn't have been as highly considered. I personally can't wait for a couple more years and see him play the run equally as well.<div>
</div><div>I feel Troy was deserving. He absolutely makes game-changing plays every week. It honestly feels like sometimes there are two of him out there, he covers so much ground.</div><div>
</div><div>I won't be surprised if Matthews wins it next year though. The Packers will be dominant for a couple more years I bet.</div>
</div><div>I feel Troy was deserving. He absolutely makes game-changing plays every week. It honestly feels like sometimes there are two of him out there, he covers so much ground.</div><div>
</div><div>I won't be surprised if Matthews wins it next year though. The Packers will be dominant for a couple more years I bet.</div>
Colonel_Reb
Hall of Famer
No surprise to me that he won it. Like the HOF, Pro Bowl, Heisman, and most other football awards, this one has little to do with reality. It is a sign of the caste times we live in and shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Let's all do what we can to change things, one small step at a time.
I only saw Polamalu play in one game against New England. He was totally ineffective, a non-factor.
Matthews does it all. In the game against Philly for example he made huge stops and put pressure on the qb keeping that team out of the playoffs.
Troy won it on past rep and being a person of color.
I'd love to see the tally sheet of the voters.
Matthews does it all. In the game against Philly for example he made huge stops and put pressure on the qb keeping that team out of the playoffs.
Troy won it on past rep and being a person of color.
I'd love to see the tally sheet of the voters.
warhawk46 said:
So the media line is that Troy Polamalu makes "game-changing" plays while Matthews just had a couple of lucky early season meaningless games. I get it. Never mind that teams had to game plan for Matthews after his fast start or that Matthews had 3 and a half sacks in the post season. Never mind that he was THE "Vick-killer" as he sacked Vick multiple times and stuffed him on a game-losing 4th down play. Nah, Matthews plays no matter how impacting lacked that certain non-white magical quality.
Kinda like the arguement that stole the Heisman trophy away from the obvious statistical leader because he played in the PAC 10 not the SEC - and oh yah, he was white - so his plays weren't magical either.
whiteathlete33
Hall of Famer
I would have gave it to Matthews as well. He had 13.5 sacks this season and early on he was on pace to break the single season sack record. That record is 22.5 held by Michael Strahan. The sky is the limit for this kid and I see him getting at least 15 sacks next season. He's the new age Kevin Greene. Sorry for comparing him to a white player but he's that good.
warhawk46 said:
Since Polamalu was ranked 146th in tackles in the NFL I wonder what "game changing plays" he was making? Intimidating people with his hair? I guess it WOULD be good if there were two of him out there. Maybe then he could accumulate more then half of what a typical safety has in tackles.
GiovaniMarcon
Mentor
I haven't really followed this competition, but I'm happy that at least a Black player didn't win. Having said that, though, I've heard people suggest that Matthews is a steroid cheat.
I don't have any idea if that's true, but it's just so typical, isn't it? White guy outplays everyone, so he MUST be dishonorable somehow. Disgusting.
I don't have any idea if that's true, but it's just so typical, isn't it? White guy outplays everyone, so he MUST be dishonorable somehow. Disgusting.
For the most part, not many. The occasional big hit every 4 games to make sportscenter, the same type of hits Eric Smith gets fined for every time, except Eric Smith actually tackles when he gets to play, 10 solo the last playoff game. 4 less solo tackles than Troy starting only 6 games, in the defensive rotation for a total of 13 while Troy started and played an entire 14. If you count the playoffs Smith has more, 26 tackles so far in the playoffs, Troy has 7.jaxvid said:
Edited by: snow
The reason Troy doesn't make as many tackles as some safties is because the Steelers defense is so great. No one can run on them. Even the great Peyton Hillis struggled against the Steelers.<div>
</div><div>Matthews, as a linebacker, had 60 tackles. Not a very high number. I think that gets held against him. For example, James Harrison won DPOY a couple years ago and had 100 tackles and 16 sacks, plus like 5 or 6 FF.</div><div>
</div><div>On the other hand, statistics do not tell the whole story on how effective and disruptive a player can be. I love this site, but some of you are so over-the -top it hurts Caste Football's standing and reputation. For those of you who cannot accept that Polamalu deserved this award I question whether you've watched the Steelers games or are nearly as biased as those who we are trying to fight against...</div>
</div><div>Matthews, as a linebacker, had 60 tackles. Not a very high number. I think that gets held against him. For example, James Harrison won DPOY a couple years ago and had 100 tackles and 16 sacks, plus like 5 or 6 FF.</div><div>
</div><div>On the other hand, statistics do not tell the whole story on how effective and disruptive a player can be. I love this site, but some of you are so over-the -top it hurts Caste Football's standing and reputation. For those of you who cannot accept that Polamalu deserved this award I question whether you've watched the Steelers games or are nearly as biased as those who we are trying to fight against...</div>
warhawk46 said:
Thats one opinion - others are of the opinion that after Matthews was so dominant early in the season "smart" teams started double teaming him - and he even acknowledged that he did get more double teams as the season went on and all he said wasthere was nothing he could do about it, he just tried toget by both blockers to get to the QB and that was all he could do- so he was opening things up for others guys on that defense. Polamalu won mostly on reputation and two or three "big" plays that gained a lot of media coverage.
I would even argue that James Harrison was just as important to the Steelers defense. In reality, the Packers and Steelers are very similar in style and execution on defense (the Packers thankfully are much more racially diversified).<div>
</div><div>Matthews and Woodson makes great LB-DB combo, same as Harrison-Matthews.</div><div>
</div><div>What the Packers need to to draft or trade for a stud white DT. Raji is good but he is too fat to be dominant for an entire game. He needs to be rotated in and out to maximize his potential.</div>
</div><div>Matthews and Woodson makes great LB-DB combo, same as Harrison-Matthews.</div><div>
</div><div>What the Packers need to to draft or trade for a stud white DT. Raji is good but he is too fat to be dominant for an entire game. He needs to be rotated in and out to maximize his potential.</div>
johnnyboy
Guru
warhawk46 said:
you're right. making a case for Clay is great and i wish he would have won but making a case for Clay by trashing Polamalu just makes you look bitter. they're both fantastic players. they both have freakish athletic ability and play with a lot of heart. i wish they could share the award.Edited by: johnnyboy
Im sorry but the Steelers defense has more playmakers to free things up for guys like Troy and Harrison. The d-line for the Steelers is better than the line for the Packers, especially when Kiesel and Smith are both healthy (I know they both missed significant time this year) but the DT is also good, Hampton, while fat is good, and Chris Hoke doesn't get enough credit when he gets to play. I wouldn't say anybody is saying Troy sucks, just that hes a little overrated. Hes elite, but struggles to stay healthy and as for being the best defensive player this year? thats debatable. Someone mentioned Harrison, he would deserve it more than Troy, 100 tackles and 10.5 sacks. Clay did receive more double teams though yet still was a disruptive force.
warhawk46 said:
Ah yes, another poster worried about our reputation. Save it. I guess 15 members of the associated press must also be "over the top", or caste football members. I get it - Matthew's low tackles total should be held against him while Polamalu's low tackle and sack numbers can be dismissed because he is so colorfully magical. Matthews must be so good that he not only has to win against this years competition, but also he needs to win against past year's competition as well. I've watched most of the Steelers and the Packers games and I can honestly say that Polamalu did not deserve to win the award. The fact that the biased white-hating associated press nearly gave Matthews the award he deserved is evidence that supports my stance. Surely Matthews lost a few votes simply for being white - just think of the kind of people that make-up the Ass. press.
I question the credibility of anyone who seems to insist that the award should go to a Steeler no matter what the statistics bare out. That kind of talk is best left for Steeler blogs of which there are plenty you can join.
johnnyboy
Guru
Kaptain said:
question warhawk's credibility all you want. fact is a lot of people can make a case for Casey without hating on Troy's ability. you should try it. maybe provide more proof than "I can honestly say [he] did not deserve to win win the award.
also, if the 15 AP members are caste football members, does that mean ALL the other AP members are racist and don't really think polamalu is deserving of the award? nice logic.
cheers.Edited by: johnnyboy
Paleocon
Guru
It is debatable whether or not Polamalu was even the best defensive back this season. Statistically Devin McCourty, Charles Woodson, and Terrell Thomas had better seasons (even acknowledging that the award is likely skewed toward interceptions, sacks, and forced fumbles over tackles). So even subtracting race out of the equation it looks like Polamalu won the award on reputation more than production.
Both Eric Weddle and Craig Dahl far surpassed Polamalu's tackle numbers,
but unfortunately did not have the interceptions or forced fumbles to match.
Edited by: Paleocon
Both Eric Weddle and Craig Dahl far surpassed Polamalu's tackle numbers,
but unfortunately did not have the interceptions or forced fumbles to match.
Edited by: Paleocon
TheAnimal
Guru
warhawk46 said:
Considering the NFL's current push of all things Pittsburgh I have seen more Steelers games than I care to. The truth of the matter is Troy Polamalu is probably the most overrated player in the NFL. Anyone questioning that is free to look at the stats, he's no better than any other number of safeties. The big difference between he and everyone else? His highlights are crammed down our throats via the MSM giving the appearance he is this superman that he isn't. Pay closer attention from this point forward, they beat each highlight the guy mans into the dirt. Reality? He's often hurt, for every amazing play it appears he makes(Appears meaning: He gets away with hits that anyone else would draw a penalty over as well as being the only guy in the NFL who can grab a ball that hit the ground and have it counted as an amazing interception) there are twenty he doesn't make and he is a benefactor of his surroundings.
As for Clay Matthews it has nothing to do with his race except maybe to those who snubbed him. The fact of the matter his play on the field speaks for itself, he is legitimately a one man game changer that offenses have had to game plan around. He is a guy that can cream your QB, he can stuff the run and he can drop back in coverage playing the pass. Simple put teams spend their weeks gameplanning around Matthews. I'm also going to state this in another matter via breaking down player v.s. player. First let me preface by saying I am big on integrity. This is a area where the NFL lacks any. That said...
Let's start with interceptions, shall we? Troy has 7, Matthews has 1. This one goes to Troy. Fine. HOWEVER this here is where it gets muddy and the NFL's lack of integrity shows through. Out of those seven INT's exactly TWO came off of intercepting top franchise quarterbacks, namely Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan. The rest? Vince Young(1), Jason Campbell(1), Ryan Fitzpatrick(1), interception machine Carson Palmer(2) and rookie Colt McCoy. Not so impressive. I believe they call it padding stats.
Now you brought up the tackles, correct? Clay having 60, Troy having 63. You are correct that the stat DOESN'T tell the entire story. 54 of Matthews sacks were SOLO. 49 of Troys were solo, the other 14 being his specialty of running in after another Steeler has the guy wrapped up and throwing on. Edge: Matthews
Sacks: 13.5 for Matthews, one for Troy. Edge Matthews.
Pass deflections: Troy with 11, Clay with 4. Edge: Matthews. How so you ask? 1: Because he is a passrushing linebacker in a 3-4 defense, it isn't his job to defend passes yet he excels at it. Also because like with everything else in regards to Polamalu, two of his deflections came against elite franchise QB's. You guessed it, Flacco and Ryan. The other 9? Vince Young(1), Jason Campbell(2), Ryan Fitzpatrick(3), Palmer(2) and McCoy(1). Hopefully you're noticing the trend here, Polamalu is at his best against weak quarterbacks. As anyone can see who goes and looks at the breakdown he disappeared from entire games from week 3 through week 10 as well as being "injured" in weeks 15 and 16.
Forced fumbles: Clay with 2, Troy with 1. Edge Clay.
Now I wrote out the above to show that Polamalu is highly overrated as well as to break down why Matthews deserved DPOY. The only thing Polamalu beats Matthews in is interceptions and as we can see they came via a weak schedule against horrible quarterbacks. The great thing about stat sheets? They break them down by each game. That's the key, especially when it comes to things like interceptions as well as to judge a player based on their entire season. If they vanish for large stretches only to pull out a nice game against a horrible opponent? They're not very good. That brings me to another point, anyone who cares to read through Matthews seasonal stats? They will quickly see despite being doubleteamed and game planned against he was STILL having productive games week after week. Polamalu? No dice.
You also have to take into account the pressure he gets as well, forcing quarterbacks to throw early and possibly getting intercepted, (24 interceptions this year for Green Bay) I believe he had 23 quarterback hits and 14 quarterback hurries. Im guessing a qb hit is just like a hurry, but he actually hits the qb as hes releasing the ball. That would mean he got in the quarterbacks face or hit/sacked him around 50 times despite being double teamed quite often.
It's a nice breakdown but you can literally do the same thing for Matthews to downplay his accomplishments.<div>
</div><div>For example: Matthews had 3 sacks against PHI in the opener and against BUF in the 2nd game of the season. Everyone sacks the Philly QB, whether it was Kolb or (especially the highly overrated) Vick.</div><div>Buffalo has a very poor o-line and offense in general.</div><div>
</div><div>He also tallied the rest of his sacks against Washington, Detroit (1 in each meeting I believe), Minn (who has a terrible o-line) and a couple against Chicago, where the minority line nearly got poor Jay Cutler killed all season!</div><div>
</div><div>Now, let me be clear I am NOT downplaying Matthews' stats or dominance. He is the ultimate game-changer, a player the offense must account for on every play. Some of you guys are too sensitive and don't want to admit that there are several players in the NFL like this. The Steelers great defense has several of them.</div><div>
</div><div>Matthews faces double-teams often, but he also benefits from inside pressure applied by Jenkins and Raji, who are both good pass rushers. Through in the blitzes AJ Hawk does and the pressure he causes. The point is that every player benefits from those around him and the teams they faced. Matthews was dominant in several games, disappeared statistically in other. In a year or two, I fully expect him to take the next step and become as dominant as James Harrison, an OLB I compare him too. I see Matthews as having the same physical talent as DeMarcus Ware of Dallas... actually, Matthews is faster. His first couple steps are the most explosive in the league.</div>
</div><div>For example: Matthews had 3 sacks against PHI in the opener and against BUF in the 2nd game of the season. Everyone sacks the Philly QB, whether it was Kolb or (especially the highly overrated) Vick.</div><div>Buffalo has a very poor o-line and offense in general.</div><div>
</div><div>He also tallied the rest of his sacks against Washington, Detroit (1 in each meeting I believe), Minn (who has a terrible o-line) and a couple against Chicago, where the minority line nearly got poor Jay Cutler killed all season!</div><div>
</div><div>Now, let me be clear I am NOT downplaying Matthews' stats or dominance. He is the ultimate game-changer, a player the offense must account for on every play. Some of you guys are too sensitive and don't want to admit that there are several players in the NFL like this. The Steelers great defense has several of them.</div><div>
</div><div>Matthews faces double-teams often, but he also benefits from inside pressure applied by Jenkins and Raji, who are both good pass rushers. Through in the blitzes AJ Hawk does and the pressure he causes. The point is that every player benefits from those around him and the teams they faced. Matthews was dominant in several games, disappeared statistically in other. In a year or two, I fully expect him to take the next step and become as dominant as James Harrison, an OLB I compare him too. I see Matthews as having the same physical talent as DeMarcus Ware of Dallas... actually, Matthews is faster. His first couple steps are the most explosive in the league.</div>
Polamalu's a helluva playerandmay have won more as acareer achievement awardrather than having a particularly exceptional season, but two non-blacks finished one-two. Considering that blacks make up a ridiculous 85% or so of defensive starters, that's a victory.
In fact, I was trying to think of dominating black defensive players presently in the league, and it's not like there's a big group to choose from. At DE, John Abraham is near the end of his career and is very inconsistent yet is still making All Pro teams. CBs Champ Baileyand Charles Woodson arealso near the end of their careers.
Patrick Willis is the most dominating black LB, but he slipped some this season. Brian Urlacher was a better MLB in 2010 than Willis. Lots of black LBs who start off strong seem to slip noticeably early on in their careers.
There's Derrell Revis and Asomugha at CB, who are so far above the rest of the cornerbackswhen it comes tocoverage skills that they highlight just how very weak the play is at the position. At safety, Ed "TackleFree"Reed is still venerated by the media, butany White player who missed anywhere near the same number of games due to injury would be the object of ridicule.
If the NFL's iron racial laws were loosened, theaffirmative action nature behind many black defensive starters would be even more obvious. Hopefully more highly talented and highly motivated Whites will continue to break through at linebacker, defensive end and safety and keep chipping away at theCaste Systemwhen it comes to defense.Edited by: Don Wassall
In fact, I was trying to think of dominating black defensive players presently in the league, and it's not like there's a big group to choose from. At DE, John Abraham is near the end of his career and is very inconsistent yet is still making All Pro teams. CBs Champ Baileyand Charles Woodson arealso near the end of their careers.
Patrick Willis is the most dominating black LB, but he slipped some this season. Brian Urlacher was a better MLB in 2010 than Willis. Lots of black LBs who start off strong seem to slip noticeably early on in their careers.
There's Derrell Revis and Asomugha at CB, who are so far above the rest of the cornerbackswhen it comes tocoverage skills that they highlight just how very weak the play is at the position. At safety, Ed "TackleFree"Reed is still venerated by the media, butany White player who missed anywhere near the same number of games due to injury would be the object of ridicule.
If the NFL's iron racial laws were loosened, theaffirmative action nature behind many black defensive starters would be even more obvious. Hopefully more highly talented and highly motivated Whites will continue to break through at linebacker, defensive end and safety and keep chipping away at theCaste Systemwhen it comes to defense.Edited by: Don Wassall