Pittsburgh chases more diversity!

[PhillyBirds]

Or the Marlins. I don't think 2009 Rookie of the Year Chris Coughlan was on anyone's "top prospect" boards a couple years ago.

 

[Skipperron]

The Pirates have acquired Japanese second baseman Akinori Iwamura for next year, and are also said to be interested in a Japanese relief pitcher.

This on top of the pick-up of more black and Hispanic players to finish off 2009.

On a potentially positive note, the team is reportedly interested in Rick Ankiel.

Unfortunately, even if the Pirates were to sign Ankiel it would probably just mean another white player would lose playing time. Like all major league teams in all sports it always seems that white players only replace white players, never black ones.

 

[Van_Slyke_CF]

I share your pain, skipperron, but I'm just hoping that we can get a few more talented white players under contract for 2010 to counteract the darkening of the team the second half of 2009.

 

[Van_Slyke_CF]

It looks like the Pirates will sign SS Bobby Crosby for a UT IF spot and are still expressing interest in guys like Rick Ankiel, Hank Blalock, and Xavier Nady, so perhaps some improvements are in store for 2010.

 

[LabMan]

these are positive signs V.S.,
lets hope that they happen,i also wish the best for Eric Bruntlett,who has been "caste" aside by the team from the city of "brotherly love",and others,"I cant understand why",this guy could start on any team,if given a real chance!

 

[Van_Slyke_CF]

The Pirates selected OF John Raynor from the Marlins in the Rule V draft. It might be confusing for DWFs to see a white man in the majors-albeit with reduced playing time-who is reportedly one of the faster guys in the game.

The bad part of this is with the 12/13 man pitching staffs teams want to carry these days, there aren't enough spots for back-up position players anymore. So this might push Brandon Moss out of a job in the spring, but hopefully Lastings Milledge or Delwyn Young will flop and get the boot first.

 

[Skipperron]

Milledge is such a joke. No power, no speed, horrible glove. And he will do something stupid before long. He always does, even though he behaved last year after joining the team.

Plus reports are Raynor is as fast or faster than McCutchen but the Pirates say he is "almost" as fast as Andrew. Who would have saw that coming? Of course they could not admit that a white player can run as fast or faster than a black one.

I hate the fact that Moss may not play much this year. I still think he has a good bat. He needs to play consistently and not just a few games a week.

I also worry that the first 2 or 3 game stretch where Garrett Jones struggles he will be sat down and given up on.

 

[LabMan]

The Pirates dared to mention the name of Kelly Johnson for about 5 seconds then they realized that second base is a "no-go" zone for White American players.

 

[Skipperron]

Jeez Louis. The Braves release black "super" prospect Brandon Jones so of course the Pirates have to rush in and select him on waivers. then they give me a little hope when the word is they are just going to use him and one other player in a trade to clear a spot on the roster. But of course they do not trade him and now begin bragging on Jones. And of course they then release a white player to clear that roster spot. (Claggett, a pitcher). And don't forget that spot that was cleared was for ONE MORE black hispanic , Octavio Dotel. He will become our new closer to replace, (all together now) white pitcher Matt Capps. Depressingly, Capps was not even traded but simply released. WOW

 

[LabMan]

The world social engineers/elite,use a plan to ensure social chaos "two steps forward,one step back",always keeping populations on the edge,this works with baseball fans as well,the Pirates will continue to use this formula,along with all other teams,and it's not just in the sport of baseball,sadly,we here at caste football are for the most part,the only folks who really know what is going on,White American players will be sacrificed to the gods of multiculturalism.

 

[Skipperron]

Just finished reading some Pirates fans sites and hearing fans post about all the wonderful hispanic and black players we have in the minors and then about all the white players players they would get rid of and the black ones they would get in return. Of course had to hear, AGAIN, how McLouth was just an average player and had NO range, unlike McCutchen. So it did not matter who we got from the Braves for him, they don't miss him. And of course, McCutchen and Tabata and Alvarez are "for real" but Garrett Jones can't possibly follow through and have a good year this year. He was just a flash in the pan. Man, makes me want to pull my hair out, if I only had any.

 

[LabMan]

Age,one would suppose may cause fans to be loyal to their own having longer to witness the changing demographics in American cities and sports,not so,I spoke with "a real baseball fan",not long ago and ask if was aware of the growing Latin domination in baseball,"a good idea",said he,because they play year round there"!,he was also quite happy with the growing number of Latin broadcasters being brought in by espn to describe "America's pastime"being played,he was in his mid 60's.

 

[Skipperron]

It is sooooo frustrating to listen to some of these American fans. They seem so proud to willingly give up their sport to foreign players, managers and announcers. I would assume it is mostly younger fans also, being a product of how they have been brainwashed in todays schools. But many are older ones who should know better. I think many want to show how progressive they are, how race or color blind they are. Really really frustrating. Oh well, I guess some of us must keep up the good fight then

 

[Bear Backer]

Just finished reading some Pirates fans sites and hearing fans post about all the wonderful hispanic and black players we have in the minors and then about all the white players players they would get rid of and the black ones they would get in return. Of course had to hear, AGAIN, how McLouth was just an average player and had NO range, unlike McCutchen. So it did not matter who we got from the Braves for him, they don't miss him. And of course, McCutchen and Tabata and Alvarez are "for real" but Garrett Jones can't possibly follow through and have a good year this year. He was just a flash in the pan. Man, makes me want to pull my hair out, if I only had any.

Skipper, I assume you are a Pirates fan, so I have to ask this question. Maybe you can give me an answer? What is it about Pirates fans that makes them seemingly embrace the seemingly outright anti-white philosophy of their organization. I can honestly say that from what I have observed (and I have done quite a bit of observing on Pirates fans message boards because they are such a interesting study in dysfunction) that Pirate fans seem some of the most deluded and out of touch of any fans in MLB. For God Sakes,I can even go to Chicago Cub message boards filled with north side ultra liberal yuppies and trust fund babies who live in a sheltered, make believe insulated world of frat parties, Khaki sorts and sandals and find more people who appreciate good white players more than I can with Pirates fans who are supposed to be "blue collar working stiffs". Most Cub fans hated Jim Edmonds when he played for the Cardinals but wound up loving the guy when he came to Chicago. Like you pointed out, it doesn't seemingly matter who it is, Pirates fans never seem to be upset for very long, or in many cases are never upset at all when their organizations jettisons quality white talent for the next cheap diversity hire. In most cases, some of which you pointed out, it seems all I read about them doing is salivating over these usually borderline black diversity hires. I can promise that you that most fans would be so P.O.'ed with the way the Pirates do business in general that they would be lucky to draw what the Montreal Expos were in their dying days.

Even delusional Cub fans for whom their year is always the next one, can even eventually usually smell out a rat. Even they won't accept the marginal diversity hires that Pittsburgh fans seem to always get excited for. I've seen Cub fans turn on even somewhat Major League caliber black players because they felt the organization was blowing smoke up their butts and they were usually right too. The relationship between the Pirates and their fans often seems like an extremely abusive relationship that I just can't comprehend. They have less strings keeping them in a bad marriage like an abused woman, but they seem to be equally as stuck. They even have other franchises to support who actually do appear to be willing to win from time to time.

I just don't really fully understand Pirates fans. They know they suck, a good many know they are constantly spinning their wheels and that the organization is never going to realistically try to move forward because it is run like nothing but a giant trust fund for their family ownership. Yet, they continue to accept diversity hire after diversity hire, buying into the company line that they don't need good players like Jack Wilson, Jason Bay, Freddie Sanchez, Nate McClouth or even Jason Kendall as important pieces to their club. Most of the time, like I said, they seem to go out of their way to make excuses that they weren't very good anyway, so and so black will be so much better anyway, while other clubs gladly snatch up the players they are too cheap to pay year after year. Then, the ultimate kicker is when they do get a non-white player like Aramis Ramirez who turns out to be pretty good and who is going to demand a little more than rock basement wages, they lose them too and start from the ground up again and again while repeating the mantra. WTF is wrong with Pirate fans?

 

[Skipperron]

It is an interesting question. As I read or talk to many Pirate fans I do get the feeling that some would dearly love to admit they pull for white players and are sick of the constant push to load up on black or hispanics, but they truly seemed cowed by the fear of being called a rascist or something. Everyone, no matter which site, seem to be walking on egg shells and tippy toe around the subject. Then again most of them appear to truly believe that only hispanic players are really athletic. Blacks or hispanic players can have worse stats but they always have so much potential or tools that you cant give up on them, whereas white players are given a couple of weeks and then declared crappy. Look at McLouth. He was adored in Pittsburgh and considered a great centerfielder. Now everyone seems to despise him and constantly talk about how he could not cover centerfield. Maybe the people in Pittsburgh have spent to much time listening to that old fool John Murtha that they keep electing. LOL. I really don't know. I starting pulling for the Pirates in 1959 as a young kid in North Carolina because I was tired of the constant talk about the Yankees. I have followed them religiously since, even through the horrible years where we fielded an all minority team. I have even tried to quit them but when you have pulled for them so long it is impossible, unless you just give up interest in baseball period. It is not the same. That happened to me in basketball and football. Once I switched my teams and tried to develope interest in another one I simply lost interest and now never watch those sports. But it is hard to understand the constant desire of the pirate fans to load up on more and more hispanic players. They claim that they are better players and are less expensive to sign. I know that is hogwash but you can't tell these guys much. In fact I got so frustrated on the board I was on that I no longer post with them. I told everyone there if the Pirates ever signed Lastings Milledge (a guy they all were hot to sign) that I would stop posting and I did. They all wonder what happened to me. Edited by: Skipperron

 

[Bear Backer]

It is an interesting question. As I read or talk to many Pirate fans I do get the feeling that some would dearly love to admit they pull for white players and are sick of the constant push to load up on black or hispanics, but they truly seemed cowed by the fear of being called a rascist or something. Everyone, no matter which site, seem to be walking on egg shells and tippy toe around the subject. Then again most of them appear to truly believe that only hispanic players are really athletic. Blacks or hispanic players can have worse stats but they always have so much potential or tools that you cant give up on them, whereas white players are given a couple of weeks and then declared crappy. Look at McLouth. He was adored in Pittsburgh and considered a great centerfielder. Now everyone seems to despise him and constantly talk about how he could not cover centerfield. Maybe the people in Pittsburgh have spent to much time listening to that old fool John Murtha that they keep electing. LOL. I really don't know. I starting pulling for the Pirates in 1959 as a young kid in North Carolina because I was tired of the constant talk about the Yankees. I have followed them religiously since, even through the horrible years where we fielded an all minority team. I have even tried to quit them but when you have pulled for them so long it is impossible, unless you just give up interest in baseball period. It is not the same. That happened to me in basketball and football. Once I switched my teams and tried to develope interest in another one I simply lost interest and now never watch those sports. But it is hard to understand the constant desire of the pirate fans to load up on more and more hispanic players. They claim that they are better players and are less expensive to sign. I know that is hogwash but you can't tell these guys much. In fact I got so frustrated on the board I was on that I no longer post with them. I told everyone there if the Pirates ever signed Lastings Milledge (a guy they all were hot to sign) that I would stop posting and I did. They all wonder what happened to me.

What about the part of the Pirates fans accepting their team playing the ever revolving door game in regards to players regardless of race? This honestly confuses me more than the diversity issue actually. I can chalk up the whole buying in to the athletic supremacy of the affroletes and Caribbeans as part of the caste system atmosphere that exists in American sports as a whole, but the cheap factor seems to go against everything that modern sports fans will tolerate. Do you feel it is a general naivety on the part of Pirates fans, or a sense of hopelessness and resignation to the fact that they will be perennial cellar dwellers? Has the Pirates front office successfully gotten away with the lie "that small market teams can't compete" for so long, that therefore the fans no longer even expect them to try? When I visit Pirate boards, I almost always see them composed of two groups. A small angry group who wants to hold the front office and the Nuttings accountable, and a larger group who seems to be in the whole "get over it, it isn't going to happen, be happy with what they are trying to do as a small market club" mindset. It is true that Pittsburgh is a small market, but I find it hard to believe that the Pirates are financially incapable as an organization of hanging on to certain key players and at having Payrolls that are at least at "respectable" (overinflated but par for the course) levels in the modern era of sports which comparable with other small market teams in their own division.

 

[Skipperron]

Yeah, right now there is a large group (we always call them the Kool-Aid drinkers) who love Huntington and Coonelly and feel they are doing all they can do. They feel that they had to "blow up" the Pirates and start over, meanwhile concentrating on loading up the minor leagues. Of course it just so happens all of the new players coming in are the castoff hispanic players from other organizations or low end black college players. Since they feel we had to blow up the org. then they seem to except the low payroll and the no name players. They convince themselves that trash like Argeniz Diaz and the like are good starting points. They put down previous administrations for being cheap and yet wet themselves with excitement over the fact we now have one of the cheapest payrolls in all of baseball. They cannot see that this is just more cost cutting to make the owners money. They buy into the line that ownership will spend money but only when it it time. Only when we have built a core of good young players and are ready to contend will we add the better players that will put us over the top. It is bad.

Of course, the realist fans who don't buy into this are the gloom and doom, darth vaders of the boards, supposedly. They just don't wnat to be positive. Or they are just too used to losing to see that we are over the hump, at least according to the cool aid drinkers.

A lot of the koolaiders are very very young and are easily swayed. Its the older ones I can't understand. They seem to always think we are just around the corner. We do have some good yound players but not enough. And I guarantee you, the minute they mature enough to win it will be time to sell off the stock again to cut salary.

I also get sick of the fans that say our truely good players were only good enough to look good on the Pirates; that they would not start for any other team in baseball. I can remember that argument about Jason Bay. They actually argued he could not start except for maybe one or two other poor teams. After starring in Boston, did they change their minds. NO. They now say he was a fool to leave Boston and will fail in New York. That he is horrible if he does not have good players to bat around him and on and on.

I don't know. I guess the constant losing has totally confused the young fans and the old ones either have given up or are grasping at straws. And of course many like me remember the good teams and no matter what cannot change teams even if their lives depended upon it.

 

[Skipperron]

And the contrast in the view of players is frustrating.

We got Evan Meek a white player on rule five, meaning we had to keep him on the roster. They used him sparingly and then offered him back hoping they would be able to keep him. Luckily they did.
However, last year they got Donnie Veal, a black rule five pick. He could not throw the ball over the plate for the life of himself. He stunk. But for him it was different. The pirates insisted they were afraid he would be reclaimed, even though Chicago had finally just given up on him. So we held him all year. Now he may turn out to be a good player. I doubt it but the the point is we treated him differently.

Brandon Moss is a good solid player that can't get 5-6 games to play in consecutively. He was supposed to but played one or two and then sat so we could see "what we had" with Young. No young player will put together much playing like that. But now we have concluded Moss will never make it.

Jack Wilson was the sparkplug of the pirates. Yet when he tried to speak up everyone said he should shut up and play. Then weeks later the same people felt we needed a leader. Wilson is one of best defensive shortstops in the game. Hands down. But because he did not hit 20 homers and bat .300 he was put down constantly and they wanted him gone. Now we have Ronny Cedeno, another Cub castoff. He makes one good play a week and then stands and watches balls go by the rest of the time. Balls that Wilson would have caught in his back pocket. And yet HE gets by with the statement from fans that if he "just hits .250 and plays good defense" it is fine. What is the stupid difference.

 

[Van_Slyke_CF]

Baseball is just around the corner and hope springs eternal, Skipperron and LabMan, so let's think positively that the Pirates will keep up the first real rebuilding program since the '90s and do it with as few non-white players as possible.

As far as bench position players go, Ramon Vazquez and Delwyn Young need to take a hike and the club should find spots for Brandon Moss and John Raynor, to go along with Ryan Church and Bobby Crosby.

In addition to the 12 pitchers we will probably start with(could we be so lucky as to begin the year with Octavio Dotel as the only non-white pitcher?),the catchers should be Doumit and Jaramillo, Clement at first, Iwamura at second, Cedeno at SS

, LaRoche at third, Milledge in left

, McCutchen in center, and Jones in right, with Crosby, Church, Moss and Raynor comprising the rest of the 25-man roster.

 

[LabMan]

Solid posts all,
Trust me when I tell you that the DWF base in Pittsburgh,mostly "politically corrected up",approve of the demographic changes occuring.

 

[Skipperron]

Rangers are overstocked on roster and are now showcasing Joaquin Arias, a black hispanic shortstop. So of course Pirate sites are a buzz with girly excitement that this could be the one for us. Most are hoping we trade Steve Pearce or Brandon Moss for him.

What a surprise.

 

[foreverfree]

Skipperron, read garretta's long post at http://the506.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1266152506/75 (page 4 of that thread). He talks mainly about Pittsburgh's longshot prospects of getting an NBA team, but towards the end of the post he addresses the possiblity of Super Mario buying the wretched Buccos in a few years if they stay lame. Why I do I doubt Lemieux would abandon the Pirates' caste approach if he bought them?

John

 

[LabMan]

Garrett Jones is the real story in Pittsburgh,he who toiled in the minor leagues for 11 years,a reminder of Chris Coste,a fine catcher who is White,we all know the story!Jones is the great White hope who will never be allowed to be same,the centerfield,and sadly the left field positions are being injected into the DWF point of view,and it works every time!Jones is being shifted between the outfield and first base,a plan to make him feel that he is uncertain of where he belongs?,you bet,it is happening with Neil Walker also.All C/F baseball fans may want to watch Garrett Jones this year,he is a gem!,our good friend Phillybirds realizes that the "five tool player"in Philadelphia ,in right field,Jayson Werth is going to be one of the best ever,but the shortstop,and first base positions will gain most attention.

 

[Skipperron]

Unfortunately, Garrett Jones is being put in right instead of first. That is his more natural position and the one spot not being prepared for another hispanic or black superstar. Jones will go to right, Tabata will hit in AAA and then Jones will be moved in a trade to clear the spot for Tabata. Meanwhile Clement will bomb at first and be traded to an American league team. Jones is already being called a half season wonder by many in Pittsburgh and talked about as being too old to consider a part of the team even if he does do good. Tabata is the hot new minority other than Alvarez of course.

You can look for Tabata, Alvarez and Sanchez to join the Pirates soon. That will not leave many if any white players as starters. Plus, they seem reluctant to get rid of Young or Vaszquez so it does not look real good for Moss or maybe even Raynor.

Walker, even at his young age, is now being groomed to be a utility player. So a high draft pick is being wasted because they are giving up on a solid young player. Would they do this to Alverez or Tabata? HA! Not likely. And don't forget the other hot minor leaguers they love. Gorkys Hernandez and Starling Marte are the next darlings of the team.

I don't have a good feeling about any white players other than pitchers.

And Veal, who is dreadful, is being groomed to start. Plus they are going to end up with a lot more hispanic's in the bullpen they you think.

 

[Tom Iron]

The muts are headed for the basement this year and it's because they've got too many hispanics. Their best bet was to get rid of Reyes and get what they could for the guy. They didn't and they're screwed.

The good part is they'll be getting rid of those poor slobs who are the gm and manager.

Wait'll next year.

Tom Iron...