Peyton Hillis

Don Wassall

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To divert the thread a little bit, Thomas Jones is a great example of how the NFL (and the media and DWFs) have far more patience for black players than White ones. Jones was a first round draft pick (7th overall) and was putrid his first three seasons with Arizona, rushing for 373 yards, 380 yards and 511 yards, with a yards per carry average those three seasons of 3.3, 3.4 and 3.7. He was then traded to Tampa, where his ypc average went up to 4.6, and then was traded to Chicago, where he finally became a thousand yard rusher, in his sixth season.

If by some miracle a White running back was drafted 7th overall, he would be public enemy number one if he put up those kinds of numbers in his first three seasons. In fact he would most likely be out of the league by then, as running backs are expected to produce at a high level right away, unlike rookie quarterbacks, tight ends and wide receivers. But Jones was given repeated chances to develop, and he finally did and had a good career, to which he can thank the league's Caste System.
 

Thrashen

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This writer seems to think that Peyton Hillis will be splitting carries with Jamal Charles…

Hillis, at 250 pounds, should present a nice balance to the speed of Charles. It should be a successful season for the Chiefs if they can find a way to get the ball to Charles and Hillis at least 500 times between them.

“I think it’s going to be a good combination,†Charles said. “I like his game. He’s athletic, he’s big, he’s strong.â€

“He’s bringing power, explosiveness, he’s strong, he’s going to catch the ball, he’s got great hands. I feel he’s an all-around player like me, so I feel like we can move the ball.â€

Charles comments concerning Hillis are true and much appreciated. Unlike his swarthy NFL brethren, Charles seems to be a classy black with no history of (the ubiquitous) black “character issues.â€

bHhoA.St.81.jpeg


Link: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/06/13/3657218/running-game-will-carry-chiefs.html#storylink=cpy
 

dwid

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To divert the thread a little bit, Thomas Jones is a great example of how the NFL (and the media and DWFs) have far more patience for black players than White ones. Jones was a first round draft pick (7th overall) and was putrid his first three seasons with Arizona, rushing for 373 yards, 380 yards and 511 yards, with a yards per carry average those three seasons of 3.3, 3.4 and 3.7. He was then traded to Tampa, where his ypc average went up to 4.6, and then was traded to Chicago, where he finally became a thousand yard rusher, in his sixth season.

If by some miracle a White running back was drafted 7th overall, he would be public enemy number one if he put up those kinds of numbers in his first three seasons. In fact he would most likely be out of the league by then, as running backs are expected to produce at a high level right away, unlike rookie quarterbacks, tight ends and wide receivers. But Jones was given repeated chances to develop, and he finally did and had a good career, to which he can thank the league's Caste System.
Yes Thomas Jones has to be THE worst back to reach 10,000 rushing yards and not even close to being one of the top backs when in his prime. He is a great example to bring up to dwfs of the double standard, or when they write off Whites as not having 1k seasons because lack of "explosiveness" "shake n bake...hip swivel" etc. They always say "there isn't a White guy that can do what Chris Johnson can do", while I believe there are White guys capable of doing what he does, its besides the point. In Thomas Jones we have a guy that had 10,000 rushing yards in his career with a 4.0 average, given over 2700 carries. If you look at any of his HIGHLIGHTS you will see a guy that was strictly downhill with no moves, and I mean really downhill, rarely did he run to the outside or a variety of plays, his best runs came straight up the gut with great blocking. I wouldn't even call them highlights. Shonn Greene was recently compared to Thomas Jones, and it wasn't a compliment, it was about how he is going to get only what the blocking gives you and nothing more.

I think Ron Dayne is another good example to bring up on how many chances a black player will get. He was in the league 7 years and they tried to heavily involve him each year.

It is sickening but made me look something up. The amount of times a White player has received 300+ carries in a season, which would greatly aid in reaching a mark such as 10k.

Only 3 seasons, which is how many 300+ carry seasons Thomas Jones had in his career (coming short two seasons in the 290 range).

Mark Van Eeghan had one and John Riggins had 2. The amount of Whites with 350+ carries is just one, Riggins with 375 (also the only White with 10k+ rushing), and there is no evidence to show Whites can't handle the load, Riggins did that at age 34 and came back and carried for 324 times at 35 with an increase in ypc, Van Eeghan had 270 the next year and his ypc went up as well and still broke the 1k mark.

Only a handful of seasons with 270+ carries and not much higher when it comes to 250+, the minimum it would take to break 1k averaging 4.0 ypc. For instance Larry Csonka never broke the 250 mark (220 being the highest) but still had 3 1k seasons (one with less than 200 carries at 195). Craig James and Jim Taylor broke it once, Riggins broke it one other time with 260 and Steve Van Buren did with 263, and of course Hillis last year with 270. Its not like there weren't other backs in 70's and early 80's getting 270+, even when Jim Taylor played Jim Brown cracked 300 once and led the league in carries 6 seasons, 5 being over 280.

I think the only guy to break 10k (I'll have to check later) without a 300+ carry season is Warrick Dunn, who was 5'9 180 pounds (still had 2600+ career attempts), yet we are supposed to believe Woodhead can't carry the ball 200+ times at 5'8 195.


So it may be possible to hit 10k without a 300+ carry season but unlikley, definetly impossible to hit the 2k mark, so right now the only hope to hit the record books is postseason performance, which is when teams in the past have seemed to lean on their White backs in the past (Csonka, Riggins). So I am hoping the Chiefs can manage to make it to the playoffs. There is also tds, he has 20 in his 4 years in the league, one year he was screwed over completely and the other was 5 games as a halfback. So if he remains just in a short yardage/goal line role he can crack top 50, Alstott is there ranked 46 with 58, he had 5 more at this point in his career and that is with 200 more carries, although he went on to average a td every 23 carries, Hillis is at 25 (towards the end Alstott had a season with 6 tds on 34 carries)

Hopefully Hillis can at least stay around that 250 mark, but would only need 220 to 230 to break 1k depending on his hamstring which he keeps aggravating every season he plays.

It seems doable when looking at reports from the Chiefs camp.

From Rotoworld:
Peyton Hillis "took turns" with Jamaal Charles as the featured running back as the Chiefs opened training camp on Friday.
Tony Moeaki and Eric Berry started at tight end and strong safety respectively, so it's not like the ACL trio was being eased in. The Chiefs' plan is for Hillis and Charles to split 500 carries, leaving enough fantasy value for both backs. It's worth noting that Thomas Jones had 245 carries and roughly 900 rushing yards in Charles' best season two years ago. Hillis has sleeper appeal as a RB2/flex option behind one of the NFL's top offensive lines.

Note sure why they put took turns in quotations, because that's what they literally did. I haven't kept up with the Chiefs roster but this is the first time I have heard of them having a top offensive line. Perhaps they know Hillis is going to have a breakout year and are trying to downplay it already.
 

jaxvid

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Yes Thomas Jones has to be THE worst back to reach 10,000 rushing yards and not even close to being one of the top backs when in his prime. He is a great example to bring up to dwfs of the double standard, or when they write off Whites as not having 1k seasons because lack of "explosiveness" "shake n bake...hip swivel" etc. They always say "there isn't a White guy that can do what Chris Johnson can do", while I believe there are White guys capable of doing what he does, its besides the point. In Thomas Jones we have a guy that had 10,000 rushing yards in his career with a 4.0 average, given over 2700 carries. If you look at any of his HIGHLIGHTS you will see a guy that was strictly downhill with no moves, and I mean really downhill, rarely did he run to the outside or a variety of plays, his best runs came straight up the gut with great blocking. I wouldn't even call them highlights. Shonn Greene was recently compared to Thomas Jones, and it wasn't a compliment, it was about how he is going to get only what the blocking gives you and nothing more.

I think Ron Dayne is another good example to bring up on how many chances a black player will get. He was in the league 7 years and they tried to heavily involve him each year.

It is sickening but made me look something up. The amount of times a White player has received 300+ carries in a season, which would greatly aid in reaching a mark such as 10k.

Only 3 seasons, which is how many 300+ carry seasons Thomas Jones had in his career (coming short two seasons in the 290 range).

Mark Van Eeghan had one and John Riggins had 2. The amount of Whites with 350+ carries is just one, Riggins with 375 (also the only White with 10k+ rushing), and there is no evidence to show Whites can't handle the load, Riggins did that at age 34 and came back and carried for 324 times at 35 with an increase in ypc, Van Eeghan had 270 the next year and his ypc went up as well and still broke the 1k mark.

Only a handful of seasons with 270+ carries and not much higher when it comes to 250+, the minimum it would take to break 1k averaging 4.0 ypc. For instance Larry Csonka never broke the 250 mark (220 being the highest) but still had 3 1k seasons (one with less than 200 carries at 195). Craig James and Jim Taylor broke it once, Riggins broke it one other time with 260 and Steve Van Buren did with 263, and of course Hillis last year with 270. Its not like there weren't other backs in 70's and early 80's getting 270+, even when Jim Taylor played Jim Brown cracked 300 once and led the league in carries 6 seasons, 5 being over 280.

I think the only guy to break 10k (I'll have to check later) without a 300+ carry season is Warrick Dunn, who was 5'9 180 pounds (still had 2600+ career attempts), yet we are supposed to believe Woodhead can't carry the ball 200+ times at 5'8 195.


So it may be possible to hit 10k without a 300+ carry season but unlikley, definetly impossible to hit the 2k mark, so right now the only hope to hit the record books is postseason performance, which is when teams in the past have seemed to lean on their White backs in the past (Csonka, Riggins). So I am hoping the Chiefs can manage to make it to the playoffs. There is also tds, he has 20 in his 4 years in the league, one year he was screwed over completely and the other was 5 games as a halfback. So if he remains just in a short yardage/goal line role he can crack top 50, Alstott is there ranked 46 with 58, he had 5 more at this point in his career and that is with 200 more carries, although he went on to average a td every 23 carries, Hillis is at 25 (towards the end Alstott had a season with 6 tds on 34 carries)

Hopefully Hillis can at least stay around that 250 mark, but would only need 220 to 230 to break 1k depending on his hamstring which he keeps aggravating every season he plays.

It seems doable when looking at reports from the Chiefs camp.

From Rotoworld:
Peyton Hillis "took turns" with Jamaal Charles as the featured running back as the Chiefs opened training camp on Friday.
Tony Moeaki and Eric Berry started at tight end and strong safety respectively, so it's not like the ACL trio was being eased in. The Chiefs' plan is for Hillis and Charles to split 500 carries, leaving enough fantasy value for both backs. It's worth noting that Thomas Jones had 245 carries and roughly 900 rushing yards in Charles' best season two years ago. Hillis has sleeper appeal as a RB2/flex option behind one of the NFL's top offensive lines.

Note sure why they put took turns in quotations, because that's what they literally did. I haven't kept up with the Chiefs roster but this is the first time I have heard of them having a top offensive line. Perhaps they know Hillis is going to have a breakout year and are trying to downplay it already.

Very nice look at the numbers, almost a FP article. Question: you mentioned post season and record books, how will that help, those are seperate stats aren't they? I know the college game now adds bowl games to the players stat line (which will look really silly when one guy is playing in 2 or 3 extra games with the new playoff system) but how does that impact the pro numbers?
 

dwid

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Very nice look at the numbers, almost a FP article. Question: you mentioned post season and record books, how will that help, those are seperate stats aren't they? I know the college game now adds bowl games to the players stat line (which will look really silly when one guy is playing in 2 or 3 extra games with the new playoff system) but how does that impact the pro numbers?

Thanks, I might have missed one or two guys for 250+ carries though. Yeah the stats for playoffs are separate and aren't added but I was thinking he could get his name down in one of those categories they keep track of, he would have to be on a team that was always making the playoffs to make the all time rushing yardage list which would be over 1450 yards so I was thinking something like most 100 yard games, the record is 7 with Emmit Smith although he had a ton of games, Terrel Davis is tied for first and he did it in 8, John Riggins is 2nd with 6 in 9 games tied with Thurman Thomas who did it in 21 and for 3rd its 5 with Franco Harris (19 games) and Marcus Allen (16 games) or he could place in the top 3 for most rushing yards in a game, it would be nice to see him get 206 which would tie with Keith Lincoln for 3rd, would hate to knock him out of the top 3, the most probable right now would be most tds in a game, 2nd place is 3 with a tie among about a dozen backs, 1st place is 5 which would be much harder to get, 4 is more probable so he would be 2nd by himself. I don't know I was just thinking of some way he could get his name down so he isn't just another back when the average fan looks back in a decade or so.

Just rereading my post I realized it wasn't very clear when I mentioned the postseason thing, sorry about that.
 
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jaxvid

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Thanks, I might have missed one or two guys for 250+ carries though. Yeah the stats for playoffs are separate and aren't added but I was thinking he could get his name down in one of those categories they keep track of, he would have to be on a team that was always making the playoffs to make the all time rushing yardage list which would be over 1450 yards so I was thinking something like most 100 yard games, the record is 7 with Emmit Smith although he had a ton of games, Terrel Davis is tied for first and he did it in 8, John Riggins is 2nd with 6 in 9 games tied with Thurman Thomas who did it in 21 and for 3rd its 5 with Franco Harris (19 games) and Marcus Allen (16 games) or he could place in the top 3 for most rushing yards in a game, it would be nice to see him get 206 which would tie with Keith Lincoln for 3rd, would hate to knock him out of the top 3, the most probable right now would be most tds in a game, 2nd place is 3 with a tie among about a dozen backs, 1st place is 5 which would be much harder to get, 4 is more probable so he would be 2nd by himself. I don't know I was just thinking of some way he could get his name down so he isn't just another back when the average fan looks back in a decade or so.

Just rereading my post I realized it wasn't very clear when I mentioned the postseason thing, sorry about that.

Ah..I see, actually it's my fault, it was pretty clear in your original post.

I think from your list it's obvious that the playoff guys are also well known and represented in the reg season stats also. I really like Peyton and wish him the best but this is his 3rd team and he is not the featured back. If Charles goes down then maybe but he's been oft injured and as a White guy wont have a lot of opportunities so while I had hoped he would have been the "one" I think it's more realistic to put him in the Alstott category. He probably will be the only White back to gain 1000 yards for the next 20 years so for that he will be remembered fondly.
 

dwid

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Ah..I see, actually it's my fault, it was pretty clear in your original post.

I think from your list it's obvious that the playoff guys are also well known and represented in the reg season stats also. I really like Peyton and wish him the best but this is his 3rd team and he is not the featured back. If Charles goes down then maybe but he's been oft injured and as a White guy wont have a lot of opportunities so while I had hoped he would have been the "one" I think it's more realistic to put him in the Alstott category. He probably will be the only White back to gain 1000 yards for the next 20 years so for that he will be remembered fondly.

Nah I think its too early to write him off. I see it more as a modern day Larry Csonka/Mercury Morris situation right now with Charles, and everything so far indicates that will be the situation.

Like I mentioned about teams leaning on their White backs in the postseason, if Kansas City were to make the playoffs I think they would feature Hillis more. Charles can be shut down, he has played in the weakest division for his career, when it comes to tougher opponents Hillis will keep getting yards. Daboli knows this, the AFC North is tougher to run in, especially with the team the Browns fielded. I criticized Daboli in the past for his playcalling with the Browns only to find out the reason was the linemen couldn't block that well on certain types of plays making the offense predictable.

In 73 Csonka got 219 carries in 14 games, the highest of his career, in his 12 playoff games he had 225 which includes a game where he was well past his prime and got 10. In his peak (from 71 to 73) he averaged 20 carries per playoff game, a total of 9 games, including a record setting 33 in the Superbowl (which was broken by Riggins). Remember it only took Terrell Davis 2 seasons to really solidify his place in history. Nobody really talks about his 2k regular season, mainly the 2 seasons where they won it all.

The guy is only 26 this year without much wear and tear being that he didn't run for an entire season and didn't get a ton of touches in college. White guys can play for much longer, although Mike Alstott had too many neck problems which may be due to his ability to run full speed with his upper body almost parallel to the ground with his neck taking a good deal of a beating. The only consistent problem with Hillis has been the hamstring injuries.

I really don't think it will be another 20 years until we see another White get 1k. This year is a good one, a good time to showcase Whites at runningback. Not only is Hillis coming into the season with the Chiefs planning on splitting things evenly, they will most likely ease Charles back into the game coming off the injury, he won't be as explosive, without that, there isn't much use for him on the field.

Gerhart is primed to start to the season as the main guy, even though Peterson is supposed to be ready for week 1 after a torn mcl/acl, and reports are saying even if he is back for week 1, Gerhart will get most of the load while they ease Peterson in.

Woodhead gets talked about as the odd man out for the Patriots but its wishful thinking. He ended last year on a good note in the Superbowl, with Addai gone his 3rd down role is safe. Vereen has shown nothing and nobody knows if he can perform in the NFL. Ridley is supposedly in the doghouse for fumbles, which is why he didn't play much in the postseason. I think Woodhead fumbled in the 2010 postseason loss against the Jets, which could be the reason why his touches dropped. I think his touches go up, he won't get 1k rushing but I think he will get 1k rushing/receiving combined, used like Darren Sproles was last year.

Gerhart performing well could open up an opportunity to start somewhere else, and Woodhead is staying with the Patriots for a while, probably like Kevin Faulk.

With Hillis performing well splitting carries this year it could earn him a starting gig somewhere else, although it might be safe to stick with Daboli and just rely on those 200+ carries. If he goes to another team after a breakout season he will be on a short leash being a White rb and like you said about his injuries, its mainly been his hamstring and splitting carries can allow him to rest properly. With the Browns he was the only offensive weapon and after all of the rumors he couldn't rest last year, the upside down catch with the Broncos was a fluke. 200+ is enough to gain 1k in his division, he averaged 5 ypc for the Broncos and his ypc was going up every game, 1k can be reached easily, worst case scenario is he is considered a Brandon Jacobs/Michael Bush type back. I know he will always be remembered by us, but I am trying to stay optomistic that he will be remembered by all who follow football.

So if everything falls into place it could open up more opportunities, although I think the first step is just getting White backs into systems that do runningback by committee. Hillis and Gerhart are both bigger backs, we have tons of White guys with that size that can run. Woodhead is 5'8 195, we have plenty of White guys around 5'8 around 200 pounds that can run and catch, although not all of them have the 4.3 speed, plenty with 4.5 speed which is identical to Brian Westbrook. Plus we have Burkhead coming out next year at 5'10 210, too small to be put at fullback or powerback role (although he is a tough runner) and too big for people to say he can't handle a full load, although with his receiving ability he will be a lock to at least be a 3rd down back in the NFL. I don't think there will be a ton of Whites but it will be similar to the wide receiver situation since Welker, I mean we had 3 White guys lead their team in receiving, Welker, Nelson and Decker, might have been 4 if Amendola stayed healthy. I know in 2010 we had at least 2 with Welker and Amendola.

btw I was reading some magazine previewing the season, mentioned that the Chiefs have the 4th easiest schedule for runningbacks.
 
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Don Wassall

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Very nice look at the numbers, almost a FP article. Question: you mentioned post season and record books, how will that help, those are seperate stats aren't they? I know the college game now adds bowl games to the players stat line (which will look really silly when one guy is playing in 2 or 3 extra games with the new playoff system) but how does that impact the pro numbers?

And now it is a front page article, in the right hand column.
 

Don Wassall

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Joe Thomas clearly isn't a Hillis fan. And before anyone goes off on Thomas, we have to consider that Hillis just may have been his own worst enemy last season due to immaturity, bad advice from his agent, and maybe having too big of a head after his success in 2010. Missing that game with strep throat appears to have been the key event; that came across as a diva move, especially from a guy who had established an image as a fearless warrior the year before.

Hillis is certainly aware of the difficulties of being a White running back, but I doubt he has anywhere near the understanding that we do here of the racial dynamics in football and society at large and how little room for error he had in his position. He's still young and can still turn his career around with a solid, injury free season in 2012.



Thomas sheds light on Hillis

by Mike McLain

In 2011 ex-Browns running back Peyton Hillis went from being the cover boy of the Madden NFL 12 video game to the bad boy in the Browns' locker room.

Along the way Hillis, now a member of the Kansas City Chiefs, tugged at and pulled down the team. From not playing in a week three game against the Miami Dolphins because of strep throat, to difficult contract negotiations, to a lingering hamstring injury, Hillis was a divisive force behind the scenes.

There were plenty of reasons why the Browns were a dismal 4-12 in coach Pat Shurmur's first year on the job, but it's hard to argue that distractions surrounding Hillis didn't top the list.

"I don't know if anybody picked sides because I don't know if anybody would have been on Peyton's side," five-time Pro Bowl left tackle Joe Thomas said. "The way he handled it wasn't the best. I think he knows it now. It affected everyone.

"It's really nice that it's behind us and we're moving forward here because I think the guys we have right now are going to be stellar."

Hillis was the darling of fans and a must interview after every game in 2010, his first season with the Browns after a trade that sent him and a sixth-round draft choice from Denver to Cleveland in exchange for quarterback Brady Quinn. In 16 games (14 starts) Hillis rushed for 1,177 yards and scored 11 touchdowns on 270 carries. He added 477 yards and two touchdowns on 61 receptions, along with the honor of prevailing in fan voting to have his image on the cover of the popular Madden game.

The fact that Hillis was the first white running back to rush for at least 1,000 yards since Craig James did it with New England in 1985 certainly didn't slip by the attention of marketing types locally and nationally. All that was missing from his meteoric rise to stardom was a lucrative, long-term contract.

Hillis' agent at the time, Kennard McGuire, needed a willing partner in the Browns, but that never materialized. Although team president Mike Holmgren mentioned more than once his desire to get a deal done, the team seemed concerned about earmarking excessive money to Hillis, whose power running style is conducive to injuries.

With Montario Hardesty returning from a serious knee injury, Shurmur wanted to see what he had in the second-round pick in the 2010 draft. Hillis, nonetheless, opened the season as the featured back, rushing for 57 yards in a loss to the Cincinnati Bengals and having what would be one of his best performances of the season the following week - 94 yards and two touchdowns on 27 carries in a 27-19 win over the Indianapolis Colts.

The drama started the next week when Hillis pulled himself from the lineup prior to a home game against the Miami Dolphins. Strep throat was the official reason, but the media's attention was piqued when it was learned that Hillis' decision was influenced by McGuire.

Hillis played a week later in a home loss to the Tennessee Titans, rushing 10 times for 46 yards. Two weeks later following a bye, Hillis pulled his left hamstring on his first carry in a road game against the Oakland Raiders. The injury wasn't announced in the press box until late in the third quarter. Because he was shown on television standing on the sideline, there was speculation that he was being benched.

Hillis returned later and finished with six carries for 14 yards. There was confusion regarding whether he was sent in by coaches or entered without permission.

The hamstring injury sidelined Hillis the next five games, ending any hopes he had of landing a new contract. During the time his attitude seemed distant and selfish.

With Hardesty again dealing with injury problems, Shurmur began playing Chris Ogbonnaya, who finished second in rushing yards to Hillis with 334. Hillis played in the final six games and ended the season with 587 yards on 161 carries, including a 112-yard, one-touchdown performance against the Baltimore Ravens.

The injuries to Hillis and Hardesty, along with the soap opera created by Hillis, sabotaged the offense. It was damaged further by quarterback Colt McCoy's inability to sustain drives and produce points.

"No running backs," Thomas said when reminded that the offense had virtually no ground game.

That changed in the offseason when the Browns selected Alabama star Trent Richardson with the third overall pick in the draft. Hardesty is healthier than at any time since he's been with the team, and 2011 free-agent arrival Brandon Jackson is back after missing the entire season with a toe injury. Hillis signed a one-year, $3 million contract with the Chiefs in March.

"Just to have a running back is awesome," Thomas said. "What we went through last year is tough on any O-lineman. The way we had guys go down to injuries and personal issues were terrible. To be able to have Trent in there, who is as solid as they come as a running back, and to have Montario and Brandon back healthy and a couple of other guys behind that can play, it's going to be really exciting."

http://www.tribtoday.com/page/content.detail/id/575005/Thomas-sheds-light-on-Hillis.html?nav=5024
 

Riddlewire

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"No running backs," Thomas said when reminded that the offense had virtually no ground game.

That's a little bit of C.Y.A. from Thomas right there. He and the rest of the offensive line played horribly all season long. McCoy can attest to that.
 

dwid

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Joe Thomas clearly isn't a Hillis fan. And before anyone goes off on Thomas, we have to consider that Hillis just may have been his own worst enemy last season due to immaturity, bad advice from his agent, and maybe having too big of a head after his success in 2010. Missing that game with strep throat appears to have been the key event; that came across as a diva move, especially from a guy who had established an image as a fearless warrior the year before.

Hillis is certainly aware of the difficulties of being a White running back, but I doubt he has anywhere near the understanding that we do here of the racial dynamics in football and society at large and how little room for error he had in his position. He's still young and can still turn his career around with a solid, injury free season in 2012.
I'll try to give him the benefit of the doubt but he did say something about wanting to get Mike Bell a 100 yard rushing game back in 2010, but I am not going to bash him, too many of our guys have been bashed by the people who are supposed to support them.

As far as Hillis, he needs to keep somewhat of a ****y attitude, its worked for him so far.

everything positive so far this year, and Eachus, another White runningback who has been getting good reviews at tailback, filled in at fullback when all the other fullbacks were out with injury. Eachus is 212 pounds (severely undersized for the role, but this and special teams will increase his chances to make the roster) and he rotated with the tight ends playing fullback, so this should ease the mind of the people who think Hillis is going to be used as a blocker. If that was the plan, then they just would have used Hillis.

Peyton Hillis reported to camp in "outstanding shape" and running with "the urgency and physicality" that made him a star in Cleveland two years ago.
Hillis appeared to be in less than peak shape last season, when he battled a hamstring injury for the majority of the season. Although Hillis' effectiveness waned for a 10-game stretch over the past two years, games of 108 and 112 yards versus the Cardinals and Ravens down the stretch in 2011 suggest he still has life in his legs. Now running behind one of the NFL's best O-Line's, Hillis is steadily climbing Rotoworld's rankings. Aug. 2 - 10:13 pm et

again with the "best offensive linein the NFL"
 
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bigunreal

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Thomas is just like all the other rare, successful NFL white players. He knows what side his bread is buttered on. Let's hope he enjoys that new offense.

Maybe Thomas agrees with wildly overrated sumo Ryan Clady, and feels he actually is in the same class as a tackle.

The Browns should be among the worst teams in the league, even though they are filled with "stellar" players.
 

whiteathlete33

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I still think it's highly possible Hillis has another 1,000 yard season. Unless of course the preseason game was just a fluke and they plan on giving Charles 2/3 of the carries during the regular season. A 50/50 split should get him there. He certainly has a better offensive line to work with.

Also the Chiefs look to start 5 whites on offense, 6 if you count Hillis who will be a part time starter. This to go along with the coal black defense.
 

dwid

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Of course he has a great shot at getting 1,000 yards rushing, definetly 1k from scrimmage. From all the talk its going to be split 50/50, at the worst 60/40, which is around 200 carries if they want to split up 500 carries, Hillis can break 1k on 200 carries in that division, the zbs is going great, both times they ran the stretch play he found the cutback lane and exploded through the crease. The line has to work to get more push on the inside zone but that will come in time.

Charles looked like a poor version of Dexter McCluster out there. They say the first part about coming back from a knee injury is adjusting to the speed of the game, well he hasn't done that yet, still sluggish. The next part is trust your knee to make cuts on, they ran a stretch play with him and there was a nice cutback lane that he could clearly see but didn't make the cut, just kept running to the outside. I know vision isn't his problem because they had alot of zbs principles in 2010. It might be week 5 or 6 before he is fully comfortable, and we could probably see Hillis getting a huge workload during this period.
 

Don Wassall

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This Sports Science video from 2011 may have been posted earlier in this humongous thread, but it's always worth a look at how powerful Hillis is.

[video=youtube;aJ78dtWlqGI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ78dtWlqGI&feature=related[/video]​
 

dwid

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still many dwfs seem shocked of this news, although its been mentioned a dozen times that they will split carries, they can't get behind the idea of Hillis and Charles getting the same amount of touches.

The Chiefs have listed both Jamaal Charles and Peyton Hillis as starters on their Week 1 depth chart.
It's yet another sign that the Chiefs are planning on splitting the rushing load pretty evenly. They want to "ground-n-pound," hoping to get their two backs a combined 500 touches this season. Hillis is going to have sneaky value as the red-zone option and power half of the committee. Our Season Pass ranks him 20th among fantasy running backs for Week 1. Sep. 5 - 8:57 am et
Source: Arrowhead Addict







 

Don Wassall

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I think Hillis is going to be even more difficult to tackle than he was in 2008 and 2010. He's highly motivated and is as strong as a bull. The only thing that can stop him is injuries, which he'll hopefully avoid this season.
 

whiteathlete33

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If in fact they do split the carries evenly, I see Hillis getting 1,050 yards on the season and and maybe 300 receiving yards as well. I'd still be happy with that. Hopefully he won't be like Alstott, who never got his 1,000 yards rushing season when splitting carries with Warrick Dunn. Alstott did come close though with 949 yards one year.
 

jaxvid

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Having taken part in a few Fantasy Football drafts lately the undervaluation of Hillis is enormous. He has been considered as nothing but an after thought in most DWF minds. Meanwhile Jamaal Charles has returned to his pre-injury RB1 status. I have Hillis in every league (except the CF Riggins league where White players are as popular as blonde women in a ghetto nightclub) and am hoping for good things from him.

Gerhart has also been dismissed. A lot of guys have took Peterson as their number one pick even though he might not get them anything early in the season. Those guys are not even trying to handicap with Gerhart even though he's the Vikings RB1 to start the season.
 

celticdb15

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Having taken part in a few Fantasy Football drafts lately the undervaluation of Hillis is enormous. He has been considered as nothing but an after thought in most DWF minds. Meanwhile Jamaal Charles has returned to his pre-injury RB1 status. I have Hillis in every league (except the CF Riggins league where White players are as popular as blonde women in a ghetto nightclub) and am hoping for good things from him.

Gerhart has also been dismissed. A lot of guys have took Peterson as their number one pick even though he might not get them anything early in the season. Those guys are not even trying to handicap with Gerhart even though he's the Vikings RB1 to start the season.

I nabbed both Hillis and Charles this year in my draft with friends. I really like that combination, Hillis looked great running against the Packers I expect big things from him this year!
 

Anak

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I always take White players only, I was able to nab Welker, Jordy, Gronk, Decker, Manning brothers, Hillis, Gerhart, and every other player I wanted. Except Witten, I got Rudolph instead.
 

dwid

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Hillis had 66 yards on 11 carries today after Charles was stuffed on every carry with 3 yards on 6 carries. If Hillis can average 66 yards for the rest of the season he will break the 1k rushing mark.

I wonder if they will give him the ball more after today. They have to realize he is their best chance of winning, he is their best defensive weapon, by letting him run it keeps their horrendous defense off the field. Charles may be more of a threat to hit the homerun once in a blue moon (although I doubt he still has that being caught from behind on a 36 yard run) but Hillis offers consistent first downs to keep the chains moving. He did fumble once but it was a mistake many players make close the endzone trying to stretch out the ball to cross the plane
 
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When Hillis fumbled on the goal line, I could not believe how deep he was lined up in the backfield. He must have been about 8-9 yards off the ball. The outside linebacker ran around the end and hit him before he could get to the line of scrimmage. I knew it was going to happen before the play started. Then he fumbled reaching for the goal line with the ball. Ugghhhhh.. At least he got some carries after that.
 

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The "Hillis Curse" may be working yet again:

(FFToday)Jamaal Charles didn't play much in the second half of Sunday's loss in Buffalo because of soreness in his left knee, Chiefs coach Romeo Crennel said. Crennel said Charles was likely to be available in this Sunday's game against the Saints in New Orleans. Charles was in for 21 plays against the Bills, fewer than either of their other two backs, Peyton Hillis and Shaun Draughn. Charles was also less effective.
Analysis: Soreness in the knee is normal for a player coming off ACL surgery, but the situation bears watching. Just like owners of Adrian Peterson, those fantasy owners who have Charles on their roster should expect a fair amount of inconsistency as each player goes through the arduous process of completely trusting their surgically-repaired knee again. However, given the way the Saints' defense has played so far, Charles stands a good chance at excelling in Week 3.
 
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