Pavlik - Hopkins on 10/18/08 per Bob Arum

Charles Martel

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whiteathlete33 said:
Its a lose lose situation for Pavlik either way. The media always protects black athletes.

I agree. Sportswriters like Kevin "The *******" Iole will be sure to discredit Pavlik if he KOs or decisively decisions Hopkins, by repeatedly emphasizing that Hopkins is old. Calzaghe has received little but scorn for his SD win over B-Hop...

If Kelly loses (it's possible because of a severe cut caused by a sneaky head-butt that the ref doesn't see, so decides was caused by a punch), the Caste media will praise Hopkins as an all-time great and Pavlik will be made out to be another mediocre white fighter. People would remember it for the rest of Pavlik's career - it would become the career-defining loss for Kelly.
smiley19.gif


And they'll be thinking "I knew it all along - white men can't fight!" Because of Hopkins' age, this would re-establish the black mens' status as the boxing "supermen" and prove the inherent "superior athleticism" of the negro race.
smiley6.gif


Something else that worries me about this and the Calzaghe vs. Jones fight, is that both will be in the New York area. That means there is a strong possibility that Julie Lederman will be working the fight, and perhaps one of several others who've shown anti-white man bias in past scoring. So I'm hoping Pavlik won't let it go to the judges scorecards.

Edited by: JD1986
 

whiteathlete33

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Lederman is bad news. Another thing JD about white fighters is that the European guys who are dominating get no respect from the media. Calzaghe was champ for I believe it was like 8 years or so when he fought Lacy and everyone expected Lacy to destroy Calzaghe. Why would everyone think that? The guy had been champ for 8 years up to that point and he is lighting fast? HMM .Klitschko has been champ for a while now, has beaten top guys, and even avenged his loss against Brewster. That is what a true champion does. He still gets criticized by the media constantly. The media never ever criticized Tyson, Holyfield, or Lennox Lewis. Its a huge double standard. Hopkins as it stands is rated number 2. He shouldnt be at 2. He is a top 10 fighter yes but not 2. He lost to Jermain Taylor twice for god sakes.
 

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whiteathlete33 said:
As I stated Jd Tarver is another overrated bum.

Who cares if he's overrated? He was the top LHW and Hopkins beat him. Then Calzaghe beat Hopkins. What's the problem?

The Ring Magazine rankings for LHW:

1) Joe Calzaghe
2) Bernard Hopkins
3) Antonio Tarver
4) Chad Dawson
5) Glenn Johnson
6) Zsolt Erdei
7) Roy Jones
8) Adrian Diaconu
9) Chris Henry
10) Hugo Garay

Do you really think anybody ranked 3-10 should be ranked higher than Hopkins?

I am suprised he has a belt.

He has a belt because he beat Clinton Woods.

Anyways Calzaghe beat Hopkins and much of the media still thinks Hopkins won.

Exactly. So he's still highly rated and well respected. Bad for Calzaghe, good for Pavlik.
 

JD074

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JD1986 said:
Calzaghe has received little but scorn for his SD win over B-Hop...

Yeah, because people like Iole thought that Hopkins won. And because it wasn't as definitive as people would have liked. Pavlik needs to win convincingly to garner respect.

If Kelly loses (it's possible because of a severe cut caused by a sneaky head-butt that the ref doesn't see, so decides was caused by a punch), the Caste media will praise Hopkins as an all-time great and Pavlik will be made out to be another mediocre white fighter.

Why would Pavlik be considered mediocre for losing on cuts to "an all time great" that has already beaten Tarver, Wright, DLH, Trinidad, Glenn Johnson, and who many people believe beat Taylor and Calzaghe? And if anybody is crazy enough to believe that, who gives a sh*t what they think?

And they'll be thinking "I knew it all along - white men can't fight!" Because of Hopkins' age, this would re-establish the black mens' status as the boxing "supermen" and prove the inherent "superior athleticism" of the negro race.
smiley6.gif

Come on, get real. Pavlik beat Taylor twice. Hopkins beating Pavlik would prove absolutely nothing. People who believe that blacks are superior athletes will believe that regardless of the outcome of this fight. It won't change a damn thing.
 

whiteathlete33

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JD you just don't get the point do you. Pavlik gets nothing out of this fight. Losing puts a huge dent in his career and if he wins the media will dismiss it. Its always like that for white fighters. Just like when Hopkins played the race card and all the cowards said nothing to him.
 

JD074

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whiteathlete33 said:
JD you just don't get the point do you.

Don't talk down to me, prick.

Pavlik gets nothing out of this fight.

Yeah, right. He gets nothing out of decisively defeating a "defensive genius"/ future HOFer who has beaten Tarver, Wright, DLH, Trinidad, Glenn Johnson, who fights two divisions above Pavlik, and who has been very productive in his 40's. A totally meaningless win. Sure.

Losing puts a huge dent in his career and if he wins the media will dismiss it.

If he gets dominated, it puts a huge dent in his career. If he narrowly loses an awkward fight, it won't. He can always drop back down two divisions and reclaim 160.

Its always like that for white fighters. Just like when Hopkins played the race card and all the cowards said nothing to him.

Quit complaining like a little b*tch. Man, you guys are a bunch of whiners. Grow up. F*ck the media. Nobody gives a sh*t what these writers and pundits think. People who believe that black athletes are superior are going to believe that regardless of what the pundits say. People have believed this sh*t for at least 20 or 30 years. Probably much longer. They haven't been brainwashed!! They've made up their own minds. Get it?! You want to blame somebody? Blame Michael Jordan and Muhammad Ali. Blame Jerry Rice and Carl Lewis. They are why people believe that blacks are superior. Not some f*cking boxing writer.

Stop torturing yourselves and don't listen to these clowns. It's totally unnecessary stress. I hardly ever allow myself to be exposed to this sh*t, except by accident. Typically some comedian like Jay Leno, that ignorant douche bag. Just watch the fights and enjoy. My god, what a bunch of cry-babies.
 

whiteathlete33

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JD u really must get a kick out of coming on this site and trying to discredit me and JD1986. You always have to get the last word in. Grow up man and stop critizing everyone. I know this puts joy in your life but u might try getting a girl.
 

Bart

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JD074 said:
Quit complaining like a little b*tch. Man, you guys are a bunch of whiners. Grow up. F*ck the media. Nobody gives a sh*t what these writers and pundits think.


That is where you are totally mistaken. The writers and pundits have an incredible impact on the minds of the masses. The public does not know or care about your opinion or mine for that matter.They form conclusions based on what Teddy Atlas, Max Kellerman,Burt Sugar, and ESPN writers have to say. You see, they are the recognized experts.
 

Charles Martel

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Bart said:
That is where you are totally mistaken.  The writers and pundits have an incredible impact on the minds of the masses.  The public does not know or care about your opinion or mine for that matter.  They form conclusions based on what Teddy Atlas, Max Kellerman, Burt Sugar, and ESPN writers have to say.  You see, they are the recognized experts. 

You're absolutely right, Bart. And those three you mentioned, in their clever, subtle way, will always cast the white fighters in a negative light. They'll talk about how Joe Louis was old when Rocky Marciano knocked him out, but never mention that Max Schmeling was even older when he lost his rematch with Louis.

The media can make athletes out to be something far better or worse than they are, by constantly emphasizing the positive or the negative!

It seems they always bring up Wlad's losses, but they rarely talk about Ali's losses to Frazier (at age 29) and Norton (at age 31), and when they do, they have an excuse for him. On ESPN, they show him knocking out Sonny Liston over and over again, as if it was a far more meaningful fight than it actually was! Ali's win over Archie Moore in 1961 is made out to be important, but whenever Marciano's KO of Moore in 1955 is mentioned, they always say Moore was old (although Moore won 38 fights after Marciano knocked him out, but won zero after Ali beat him!) ESPN Classic shows Ali's fights regularly, but I've yet to see them show the five that he lost.

The media makes Michael Jordan out to be a super-athletic god, but we don't hear as much about Wayne Gretzky, who dominated hockey during the 1980s, breaking almost every scoring record. We hear about the superior "athleticism" of black men like Jordan, but they never point out that the REAL reason black men do well in CERTAIN SPORTS like short-distance running and basketball is because most of them have proportionately longer arms and legs.

We hear that Tiger Woods is a black man, but we never hear that he has more white than black heritage (he's 1/4 white, but only 1/8 black, and 5/8 Asian). Most people think he's 1/2 Asian and 1/2 black.

Most people have never heard of Fedor Emelianenko, the best fighter in the world, but it seems everybody's familiar with Anderson Silvia and "Rampage" Jackson.

The average person actually believes that a black man will always defeat a white man in a fight, unless the black man is old or crippled, yet most of the opponents of boxers like Wladimir Klitschko were black. Fifteen of Alexander Povetkin's 16 opponents were black. Same with other white fighters...

We never see Wlad's better performances against Bostice, Barrett, Byrd, Nicholson, Mercer, Brock, Austin, Peter etc. on ESPN Classic, while they manage to show Roy Jones HBO replays, and Mayweather's and Holyfield's Showtime fights. They do show Wlad vs. Williamson, not one of his better performances.

ESPN Classic recently showed some Demetrius Hopkins fight from last year, but why not Pavlik vs. Miranda instead, since it was FAR more exciting? But you'll never see that one again on TV! Edited by: JD1986
 

white is right

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Bart said:
JD074 said:
Quit complaining like a little b*tch. Man, you guys are a bunch of whiners. Grow up. F*ck the media. Nobody gives a sh*t what these writers and pundits think.


That is where you are totally mistaken. The writers and pundits have an incredible impact on the minds of the masses. The public does not know or care about your opinion or mine for that matter. They form conclusions based on what Teddy Atlas, Max Kellerman, Burt Sugar, and ESPN writers have to say. You see, they are the recognized experts.
If Sugar is quoted then Dempsey would be recognized as the pound per pound best heavyweight of all time. Sugar has never been racially biased against white athletes. Unlike some other commentators.
 

white is right

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JD1986 said:
Bart said:
That is where you are totally mistaken. The writers and pundits have an incredible impact on the minds of the masses. The public does not know or care about your opinion or mine for that matter. They form conclusions based on what Teddy Atlas, Max Kellerman, Burt Sugar, and ESPN writers have to say. You see, they are the recognized experts.

You're absolutely right, Bart. And those three you mentioned, in their clever, subtle way, will always cast the white fighters in a negative light. They'll talk about how Joe Louis was old when Rocky Marciano knocked him out, but never mention that Max Schmeling was even older when he lost his rematch with Louis.

The media can make athletes out to be something far better or worse than they are, by constantly emphasizing the positive or the negative!

It seems they always bring up Wlad's losses, but they rarely talk about Ali's losses to Frazier (at age 29) and Norton (at age 31), and when they do, they have an excuse for him. On ESPN, they show him knocking out Sonny Liston over and over again, as if it was a far more meaningful fight than it actually was! Ali's win over Archie Moore in 1961 is made out to be important, but whenever Marciano's KO of Moore in 1955 is mentioned, they always say Moore was old (although Moore won 38 fights after Marciano knocked him out, but won zero after Ali beat him!) ESPN Classic shows Ali's fights regularly, but I've yet to see them show the five that he lost.

The media makes Michael Jordan out to be a super-athletic god, but we don't hear as much about Wayne Gretzky, who dominated hockey during the 1980s, breaking almost every scoring record. We hear about the superior "athleticism" of black men like Jordan, but they never point out that the REAL reason black men do well in CERTAIN SPORTS like short-distance running and basketball is because most of them have proportionately longer arms and legs.

We hear that Tiger Woods is a black man, but we never hear that he has more white than black heritage (he's 1/4 white, but only 1/8 black, and 5/8 Asian). Most people think he's 1/2 Asian and 1/2 black.

Most people have never heard of Fedor Emelianenko, the best fighter in the world, but it seems everybody's familiar with Anderson Silvia and "Rampage" Jackson.

The average person actually believes that a black man will always defeat a white man in a fight, unless the black man is old or crippled, yet most of the opponents of boxers like Wladimir Klitschko were black. Fifteen of Alexander Povetkin's 16 opponents were black. Same with other white fighters...

We never see Wlad's better performances against Bostice, Barrett, Byrd, Nicholson, Mercer, Brock, Austin, Peter etc. on ESPN Classic, while they manage to show Roy Jones HBO replays, and Mayweather's and Holyfield's Showtime fights. They do show Wlad vs. Williamson, not one of his better performances.

ESPN Classic recently showed some Demetrius Hopkins fight from last year, but why not Pavlik vs. Miranda instead, since it was FAR more exciting? But you'll never see that one again on TV!
Some of it could be that, some of it could be because HBO owns the rights to recent Pavlik classics and the rights fees are high too. Old Ali fights have nominal rights fees. Recent PPV or HBO fights have more expensive fees.
 

Bart

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white is right said:
If Sugar is quoted then Dempsey would be recognized as the pound per pound best heavyweight of all time. Sugar has never been racially biased against white athletes. Unlike some other commentators.


Not from what I've read in the past. But I confessI'm not up tosnuff with the latest.
 

Charles Martel

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white is right said:
If Sugar is quoted then Dempsey would be recognized as the pound per pound best heavyweight of all time.

No, but he does rate Dempsey number 3.

Bert Sugar's top 10:

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Dempsey
4. Johnson
5. Tunney
6. Marciano
7. Charles
8. Foreman
9. Frazier
10.Holmes

Sugar rates Muhammed Ali as the 15th best athlete of all time, and Jack Dempsey as the 60th best.

Bert Sugar's Top Ten

I was surprised to see three whites in his top 10 though, so even though he wears a fedora, maybe he's not Jewish after all.
smiley2.gif


And I have noticed in Bert's favorite fights between black and white boxers, the black guy always wins.

By the way, Jack Dempsey had American Indian and perhaps some Jewish heritage, which helps explain why Sugar likes him.
 
Last edited:

white is right

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He is old money Anglo-Saxan. I swear he was NYC Jewish. Until I read about his background. He rated Dempsey the number one heavyweight way back around 84ish when his 100 Greatest Fighters of All Time came out. Maybe he has revived the list. He stated he took into account star power and not just pure ability. He also stated that he rated heavyweights by their dominance of their era. So small heavyweights like Dempsey, Johnson,Louis, Marciano aren't punished, when they are compared to Lewis, Wlad and Vitali.
 

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whiteathlete33 said:
JD u really must get a kick out of coming on this site and trying to discredit me and JD1986.

"Discredit?!" Don't be ridiculous. You're over-estimating your own importance. I don't think about you guys unless I'm debating a particular point. I haven't even noticed you until this debate. Not once.

You always have to get the last word in. Grow up man and stop critizing everyone.

I didn't criticize you until you talked down to me. Don't tell me to grow up when you're whining like a baby over the big, bad boxing writers. Ooh, scary!!
smiley36.gif
What a bunch of babies.

I know this puts joy in your life but u might try getting a girl.

God, you're an idiot. You know nothing about me. I bet you waste a lot more time on this sh*t than I do. I typically only frequent this site once or twice a week, except if I get in an argument, then I'll bookmark that particular thread. And I don't frequent any other sports forums either. I spend the vast majority of my time doing other things. I'm very happy with my life. Grow a brain, retard.
 

White Shogun

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I have been out of the boxing forum for awhile, and look what I've missed? JD074, when did you start throwing around ad hominem in your posts so much? Guess I have been out of the boxing threads for too long.

I personally find it amazing though that anyone who visits this site cannot believe the media is EXTREMELY influential in determining the way people view athletes and sports in general. A large portion of the threads on this site are dedicated to exposing such bias, and there are many, many personal anecdotes contained in those threads about people who believe exactly what the media tells them to.
 

JD074

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Bart said:
That is where you are totally mistaken.  The writers and pundits have an incredible impact on the minds of the masses.  The public does not know or care about your opinion or mine for that matter.  They form conclusions based on what Teddy Atlas, Max Kellerman, Burt Sugar, and ESPN writers have to say.  You see, they are the recognized experts. 

No, Bart, I am not mistaken. People believe that blacks are superior because they were 80% of the NBA in the 90's (and still 75% of the NBA, and 70% of the NFL.) Because there hasn't been a star white NFL RB in 25 years. Because black men own the 100 meter dash. Because they dominated HW boxing for 30 or 40 years. That's why. It's not because of some douche bag commentator. Teddy Atlas?! Gimme a break. Nobody cares. People have based their beliefs about sports on what they see with their own eyes. It may be a superficial belief, but it's their belief. They have chosen to believe this.

No, they don't think the way they do because of Teddy Atlas, they think the way they do because they grew up watching blacks dominate certain sports/ positions. That's all there is to it. It really is that superficial. The fact of the matter is that most people are casual fans. They don't know that much. They don't pay that much attention. We have at least two or three generations of Americans who have grown up watching black basketball players, black RB's, black boxers, and black sprinters. And, yes, on average, they've been better than their white counterparts. That's what they know, and that's all they know. Sure, things have changed somewhat, but they don't know that. They don't watch that closely. That's why Jay Leno made the joke about two white HW's. He doesn't follow the sport. Most people don't. They'll watch the occasional big fight, like DLH-Mayweather, and that's it.

People just don't think about things deeply. They don't analyze and question their own beliefs. They have believed in black athletic superiority for most of their lives, and they're happy with that belief. It serves them well. They don't have to think about the lack of white RB's or CB's in the NFL. They don't have to think about how well white countries like Spain, Greece, Lithuania, and Argentina fare in basketball- and yet, in a country with 200 million white people, we can't find one g*ddamn white player to put on our Olympic team. They don't have to think about those things. Their beliefs rationalize it all away. They're blissfully ignorant.

Let's face it, most people are flat-out stupid. Why was George W. Bush elected not once, but twice?! Because people are flat-out stupid.
 

JD074

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White Shogun said:
I have been out of the boxing forum for awhile, and look what I've missed? JD074, when did you start throwing around ad hominem in your posts so much?

When people talk down to me or insult me first. Then I'll let 'em have it. But please, don't let that stop you from being holier-than-thou.
smiley2.gif


I personally find it amazing though that anyone who visits this site cannot believe the media is EXTREMELY influential in determining the way people view athletes and sports in general.

Nah, these clowns aren't that influential. They're merely a reflection of the belief in black athletic superiority, they didn't create it.

A large portion of the threads on this site are dedicated to exposing such bias, and there are many, many personal anecdotes contained in those threads about people who believe exactly what the media tells them to.

Yeah, and a large portion of people on this site are a bunch of obsessive, neurotic cry-babies who are constantly over-reacting to every little thing. So I can see why that would be the case.
 

Seahawker71

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I think this is a great fight for The Ghost.Hopins is a tricky fight but Kelly
has youth, a high work rate and power on his side.Hopinks will not get
KO'd.Calzhage was faster than Kelly and he couldn't touch the Executioner
with any power shots.

I see Kelly winning a UD based on workrate and some good power shots.
This is an exciting fight.
 

White Shogun

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JD074 said:
White Shogun said:
I have been out of the boxing forum for awhile, and look what I've missed? JD074, when did you start throwing around ad hominem in your posts so much?

When people talk down to me or insult me first. Then I'll let 'em have it. But please, don't let that stop you from being holier-than-thou.
smiley2.gif

Just a question, JD. I just didn't remember this level of vitriol in your old posts. Guess I could go back and read them again..... nah.

Have fun. Edited by: White Shogun
 

Charles Martel

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We all should try to refrain from childish name-calling and silly personal attacks.

Unless we're one of these:

cyber-soldiers

There may even be one or more here, pretending to be one of us!
smiley36.gif


But I imagine they would reveal themselves eventually, by name-calling and personal insults, making posts that clearly show their intense feelings of dislike for white nationalists!
smiley2.gif




Edited by: JD1986
 

white is right

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I'm not a white nationalist, I just don't believe in racist stereotypes. In fact I detest them to my bones. Jokes aside I don't hate other races or cheer against other races in fights or other athletic competitions. I just hate the status quo in North America and other parts of Western Europe.
 

JD074

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JD1986 said:
But I imagine they would reveal themselves eventually, by name-calling and personal insults, making posts that clearly show their intense feelings of dislike for white nationalists!
smiley2.gif

I'm here because I have an interest in white athletes. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm not a white nationalist anymore, and I don't think I should have to be to come here. But I don't "dislike" them either. What I do dislike is neurosis, paranoia, and a freakish inability to comprehend what one reads. That last one especially applies to you.

Unlike you, I don't think of this site as a cult. I'm not a follower. I think for myself. I refuse to toe any party line. Oh, but wait, I've told you all of this before. I guess your learning disorder prevented you from remembering any of it. Oh well.
 

ToughJ.Riggins

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Pavlik will have to have a more convincing win than Calzaghe to silence the black supremacists. Then Calzaghe has to go on to beat Roy Jones JR. If both these things happen, what will the black power American sports media say this time? The Luginbills will be having a fit!
 
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