March Madness

Discussion in 'College Basketball' started by northwinds, Mar 19, 2019.

  1. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    Actually there is some irony in all of this. Back when I first heard of Rex Chapman around 1986, when Bird was still in his prime, I thought the gravy train would continue and Rex would be the next GWH (Great White Hope).

    Rex was a scintillating 6'4" athlete with big time springs. An SI feature mentioned his 39 inch vertical in high school as he was preparing to go to KY. For the record Tyler Herro's vertical leap is under 34 inches. In terms of raw athleticism I don't see a comparison.

    That said and my memory is murky, even though I was very interested in Rex I can recall only one thing about his KY days. Remember there weren't games on at night like now and I must have watched him more than once in college but I can't remember. The one thing I do remember is Rex driving to the basket leaping up high and having his shot blocked. And KY lost the game. If memory serves KY was decent but not great during Rex's two years there.

    From there everything is a blur. I lost track of him once he went into the NBA. He averaged 16 his freshman year and 19 his sophomore season and was considered a star college player at the time.

    I can't remember even his draft. He was chosen 8th by Charlotte and spent 4 years there. He was just OK. Not bad by any means but not great either. Then he bounced around the league until landing with the Suns where he made his mark for a spell. I do remember that. I also remember being frustrated that he never attained star status and I think he was voted to the All Star game only once and that was I think with the Suns but he suffered a bad injury right after the announcement. So he never played in an all star game.

    Rex was injury riddled throughout his pro career and eventually got highly addicted to drugs. He is now a studio analyst on the NBA network (or TNT) sporting a bald head.

    What seemed like a rising star out of high school Rex never turned into a great NBA player. He might have participated in a dunk contest or two(?) and he became a good marksmen over time and still had bouncy legs but his career was essentially average. He rarely played on teams that made the playoffs.

    Hornacek was not as athletically gifted as Rex but he had a much better and longer NBA career.

    Herro has basketball athleticism. And court smarts. He is a very quick decision maker and has basketball instincts. Things you can't teach. He does not have the bounce or overall athleticism of Rex despite the fact a couple of media outlets have compared the two.

    As for Herro jumping to the pros it would be a huge mistake. He is not ready. It might be a blessing in disguise that he played a poor game against Auburn. Donte D jumped and where did that get him? Nowhere. Kevin Huerter has shown flashes but overall his season has been too up and down. Another year in college for both of these players would have been better if you ask me. I feel the same way about Herro. Would like to see him wait until after his junior season before jumping to the NBA.

    Funny thing is ever since Rex I have always been on the lookout for 6'3" to 6'6" type of white shooting guards who can leap out of the gym. And it has been a constant battle to find them, especially players who sign up to the big schools. Of course this past draft there were three big leapers in Allen, Donte D and Huerter.

    I do remember KY player Jeff Sheppard who was just a little smaller than Rex but could leap like crazy. He was never was a true starter for most of his career. He did however shine in KYs championship run his senior year and was named MVP at the Final Four. I was hoping that would send him to the NBA but he was never drafted and faded from view. Like Rex he also was a good outside shooter.

    Sheppard ( Rex junior I used to think) played for Pitino and then Tubby Smith and only averaged double figures once in his four years there, his senior year. Below is a video of him dunking and gives an indication of his great hops.

     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
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  3. Carolina Speed

    Carolina Speed Hall of Famer

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    Florida States Bob Sura comes to mind. He left FSU as their all time leading scorer. He was listed at 6'5 with pretty good leaping ability as well, but like Chapman, Sura never became a great NBA player. He was decent, but not great. Normally, if Sura touched the ball he was going to shoot. That's what I liked about him in college. He took his share of shots!
    BTW, Chapman won The McDonald's HS Slam Dunk contest and a lot of people especially in Charlotte thought he was cheated for the NBA Slam Dunk Contest in 1991 that was held in Charlotte.
     
  4. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    It is weird because I didn't see him play much but Rex Chapman has always held a mystique for me. The lithe super bouncy white basketball guard.

    I saw a Bob Sura play a lot at Florida State and he was sort of a facsimile of Rex but not quite as athletic. Good name to bring up because he was sort of part of the "Rex" lineage so to speak. I was a big Damon Bailey fan in the early 90's. He also had a 39 inch vertical but like Mac McClung he wasn't very long.

    Below are highlights of Rex NBA dunk contests from 1990 and 1991. Just reeks of athleticism. Graceful panther like movements.

    In his defense from what I understand Rex had a very tough upbringing which may have contributed to his doldrums later in life.

    Crazy I know but every year when I see the next recruiting class I am looking for the next Rex Chapman. This many years on. The strange things I obsess about. Ha.



     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
  5. Old Scratch

    Old Scratch Mentor

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    On the other hand Grayson Allen stayed two years too long and fell in the draft and landed in a bad situation at Utah which has too many guards now and he struggles to make the rotation (which is unfortunate as he has a very similar skill level and athleticism to D Mitchell who was given the keys from the jump).

    It all depends on where they go. If Donte D or Grayson went to Dallas they would be having Jalen Brunson's role right now and be in a great situation. If Herro could fall to the Pacers I think that would probably be a great situation for him.

    Also Huerter is in a great situation, he starts and averages almost 30 minutes a game and is part of the young core of the Hawks. He'll start next year too and get more than 30 minutes a game.
     
  6. Bucky

    Bucky Hall of Famer

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    @Old Scratch I agree. I think Huerter situation has worked out as well as we could hope! He is still only 20 years old!

    Avg 27mpg
    9.5 ppg
    3.2 rpg
    2.8 mpg

    @Shadowlight don't get down buddy. Huerter is a young gun getting big minutes. Donte D hasn't been able to crack the rotation on the best team in the League right now(feels weird typing this about Milwaukee Bucks!).

    Good news is that Pat Connaughton has regained his role in rotation for Bucks and is averaging about 8ppg 2nd half of season. As well as being a good passer, rebounder and defender.

    I do agree Grayson Allen's role has been a huge let down though!

    Back to March Madness I truly believe this is Virginia's year. To me it looks like a Virginia vs Michigan State final is on the horizon. Go Cavs!
     
  7. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    The Final Four for the women is all set too. Key players to watch on each team.

    UCONN-Katie Lou. Had some injury issues but exploded in the last game going 7-12 from deep. And she is cute too. So add some bonus points.

    Oregon-Sabrina Ionescu. Triple double Queen sends Oregon to their first Final Four. Just a junior but might declare for draft. Some think she will be the number one pick.

    Baylor-Lauren Cox. Big post player is really starting to shine. Dominant on both ends of the court. Just a junior.

    ND-Jessica Shepard. Former Nebraska post player used to be fat but has trimmed down. Can score and rebound on the block.

    In other news UCONN landed the number one player in the 2020 class 5'11" Paige Bueckers. I mentioned her in a previous post. She is the next big thing.
     
  8. icsept

    icsept Master

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    4/5 White Lipscomb adavances to the NIT Finals with a win over Wichita State. Senior guard Garrison Mathews is averaging 27 points for the 5 tournament games. Should be getting some attention for the NBA draft.
     
  9. booth

    booth Mentor

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    Shadowlight do you remember a kid from Clemson named Murray Jarmin. He could jump out of the gym and athletic enough to be drafted by the Cowboys as a tight end.
     
  10. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    Never heard of Jarmin who by his stats looked like a minor role/ bench player from the early 80's.

    Dave Popson was a highly ranked PF prospect from the 1980's who never exploded at North Carolina. I had high hopes for him due to his bouncy hops but he only had an average career at NC. Same thing happened to SF Danny Miller from the late 90's who spent three uneventful years at Maryland before transferring to ND where he had a decent senior season. Miller also was a very good leaper.

    More recently and drafted in 2009 Chase Budinger of UCLA never became the NBA star many predicted. His vertical was over 40 inches.

    From Rex Chapman forward one could write a book about white leapers who "underperformed" whether in college or the NBA.

    White athleticism on display is in direct conflict it seems with the black brotherhood in basketball who don't like being upstaged or leapt over by some white dude.
     
  11. booth

    booth Mentor

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    A side note to Murray Jarmin , his father won an academy award for the movie The Yearling as the little boy Jordy. Murray averaged 15 points a game his senior year playing center at 6'6 against Ralph Sampson, Sam Perkins and Brad Daugherty. Had a 42 inch vertical, made second team all-ACC tournament. I was mistaken saying he was drafted by the Cowboys instead of the Broncos.
     
  12. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    Right his stats went way up his senior year. You got me on him Booth. I simply don't remember him. I remember those NC teams and of course the Ralph Sampson teams but drawing a complete blank on Jarmin. I don't recollect watching Clemson basketball games back then either.

    But he sounds like a player that would normally get my attention. Interesting he could play Sampson at his size. Reminds me of when bouncy Dave Cowens at 6'8" would square off at center against the likes of Jabbar, Chamberlin and other giants from that era. And Cowens excelled and led the Celtics to two championships.
     
  13. Riggins44

    Riggins44 Master

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    Dave Cowens was the MVP also.

    And of course there was the great Tom Chambers...I never knew the Phoenix Suns gave Chambers a trophy of his classic dunk over Mark Jackson

     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  14. booth

    booth Mentor

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    Tom Chambers had a teammate named Danny Vranes who was better leaper than Chambers. I believe he was a first-round pick in the early 80s. He could really sky but was not a great shooter.
    Also I have to mention my favorite Gamecock player of all time, Kevin Joyce. He was an unbelievable jumper and shooter. He was responsible for one of the most famous plays in ACC tournament history when Joyce at 6'3" out jumped 6'10 Lee Dedmon on a jump ball tapping it to Tom Owens who laid it in for the winning basket, to win the 1971 tournament. This was when only one team went to the NCAA tournament from the ACC. It was the only time South Carolina went during Frank Mcguire .
     
  15. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    You are really pulling them out of your hat Booth. But I like challenges. I have heard of Kevin Joyce but can't recall watching him play although he was on the famous 1972 Olympic Squad that lost to the Russians. Dave Collins was a prominent member of that team. In the back of my mind I thought of Joyce for a spell back then but my mind fades out after that.

    Tom Chambers was a high flying fast PF beast in the NBA. Tons of talent. He was always underrated and it wasn't until later in his career when he was finally widely admired as an unstoppable offensive force who could shoot from deep too. But yes I do remember his Utah teammate Danny Vranes who was the best leaper on the team. Good call. I even went out of my way to catch Vranes in an All Star event right after he graduated from college. I had heard about his prodigious leaping skills and it was being held locally so I checked him out.

    You mention he was drafted high in the first round. (5th pick!) Somehow I don't recall that. He even played in the NBA for several years and once again I am drawing a blank. Funny how the mind remembers certain things and forgets other things. At the end of the day though Vranes never made a mark in the NBA.

    He didn't get a chance to show off during that all star game. This was at the height of Bird mania (circa 1981 or so) so I was pumped up always looking for the next in line. I thought after Bird showed up white superstars would be growing on trees. Oh the optimism and "stupidity" of youth.

    I have seen Larry Bird play in person a few times also. The Celtics would play in Hartford at times. What a joy to watch.
     
  16. booth

    booth Mentor

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    Shadowlight I like to share one more with you, Bobby Jones of UNC. He could run, jump and play defense. He was also on the 72 Olympic team. He should be in the NBA hall of fame.
    To me, I thought Pete Maravich would open the way for more whites in the NBA. Even in 1972, the league was already getting predominately black except for a couple of teams. What he was doing in the 70s is what black players are doing today. They are copying from the likes of Isaiah Thomas, Magic, Gervin and other black players who saw what he did with the ball. I can honestly say Maravich was magic before Magic.
     
  17. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    The early to mid 70's college basketball scene mostly eludes me. Just a young kid then but I did follow the NBA. For me my awareness of college basketball started in 1978 when Rick Robey and Kyle Macy led KY to a championship over Duke and big Mike Gminski. I remember rooting for KY and watching that entire game transfixed. Jack Givens was the MVP. From there I followed college basketball like a hawk. The next year Bird and Magic hooked up in the finals and that is when I started changing and rooting for white athletes. My transformation began between 1978 and 1979. Before that I mostly rooted for black athletes although it wasn't that cut and dry.

    So with that in mind I didn't like Pete Maravich when he was with the Hawks. You are right. He was very flashy and played school yard ball. The equivalent of what many think of the "black schoolyard type of play." He had a star black teammate Lou Hudson who was more conventional.

    I remember Bobby Jones as a pro with the 76ers. Because he defended Bird I had no use for him. Ha. And by then I despised the 76ers because they were in Bird's way. You are correct. He was very thin ( back then a normal basketball build) but could really run and was cat quick. A superb defender. His offense was decent but he was tenacious on the defensive end.

    I also didn't like the mid 70s Celtics or Dave Cowens and I rooted against Bill Walton and Portland when they played Dr. J and Philly in the 1977 finals. My pre caste era. Part of growing up I guess. Living in the wilderness before seeing the light. Ha. But I started following sports about the age of 4 and by 6 or 7 I was quite knowledgeable. I used to show off around adults and they would be amazed on how much I knew. Been a sports junkie my whole life.


    I don't know what triggered many of the members here to become "caste aware" but for me it all goes back to the emergence of Larry Bird.

    And since then I have never looked back.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
  18. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    Bucky predicted a Michigan State-Virginia final and early on Jack Lambert predicted Virginia to win the whole thing.

    I admit it I will be shocked if Auburn beats Virginia. I also don't think Texas Tech can win it all. They might have one more upset left in them but I would bet on Michigan State winning what might be a tight one.

    Matt McQuaid is the best on ball defender in college basketball so if they do meet Virginia in the final he will likely guard Kyle Guy. Talk about white on white crime. Still preferable to the alternative though.

    Even though I didn't predict a winner of this tournament I have steadily insisted here at CF that Virginia is the best team in the country. Hope they come through.
     
  19. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    I only caught the last quarter of the Baylor-Oregon tilt but it was tight. Baylor prevailed and it seems to me 6'4" Lauren Cox has suddenly emerged as the best player in the country.

    But the Notre Dame UCONN battle was another classic between these two titans in what is the best rivalry in women's basketball.

    Katie Lou got hot in the second half where she scored all of her 20 points but UCONN somehow blew a 4th Quarter lead and relentless Notre Dame prevailed.

    Baylor is a big tough defensive team but I think Notre Dame has too many weapons. PF Jessica Shepard was her usual efficient force last night with a 20 point, 13 rebound, 7 assist game. Backcourt G Marina Mabrey was hot and cold from deep but she finished with 12 points and 12 assists.

    Should be a dandy matchup Sunday night.
     
  20. The Hock

    The Hock Master

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    Well I'm looking forward to the games today. I think Auburn is very dangerous. Ironically a bunch of scrappy over achievers ha ha.

    And of course a lot of our guys to root for.

    I'm gonna hunker down and watch both games.
     
  21. Riggins44

    Riggins44 Master

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    Salt gets called for going for the ball while White. Gets sent to the bench with his second foul for bumping into the black Auburn player who sells the foul.

    Guy converts a layup and the black Auburn defender hits him so hard in the air that he spins him around 180 degrees, but no call. Because thats just good hard defense!
     
  22. northwinds

    northwinds Mentor

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    Jerome (13) and Guy (5) are UVA’s leading scorers in the first half.......
     
  23. The Hock

    The Hock Master

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    Yeah Jerome has a Swiss army knife game.
     
  24. BeyondFedUp

    BeyondFedUp Master

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    I almost shouldn't have even watched. And the way CBS kept cutting to all the Black celebrities was sickening. GUY rules at the line!!! Woohoo!!!

    Looking forward to Texas Tech hopefully destroying M.S.
     
  25. Old Scratch

    Old Scratch Mentor

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    They're whining about a "double dribble" when they're showing and not mentioning the Auburn player intentionally grabbing him by the jersey because they wanted to cheaply bleed the clock as they had fouls to give.
     
  26. BeyondFedUp

    BeyondFedUp Master

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    ...and Auburn can boo hoo hoo all the way home!!
     

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