Malaysian passenger plane goes down over eastern Ukraine

[Charles Martel]

There were 280 passengers and 15 crew members on board, some ​

Americans and UK citizens among the dead.

The ethnic Russian separatists in Eastern Ukraine are being blamed, but they are not capable of bringing down a plane from such a high altitude. It requires advanced technology, only a few countries like the USA, Israel, and Russia could do it.

 

[Charles Martel]

Moscow: Kiev allegations that Russian jet downed Ukraine plane absurd

http://rt.com/news/173604-ukraine-jet-downed-absurd/

Kiev’s accusations that Russia shot down a Ukrainian Su-25 fighter jet are “absurd,” the Russian Ministry of Defense said.“This is absurd, like all previous accusations from Kiev officials concerning Russia’s Ministry of Defense,” a ministerial official told journalists on Thursday.

Kiev has accused Russia of downing its Su-25 fighter jet on June 16.

Andrey Lysenko, spokesman of the Ukrainian National Security and Defense Council, said a Russian military jet shot down a plane that was fulfilling a military operation over the east of Ukraine at 19:00 local time. Earlier Kiev blamed the attack on self-defense forces.

On Wednesday, self-defense forces claimed they had shot down two of the Ukrainian Air Force Su-25 fighter jets.

The high-ranked Defense Ministry official said that “almost every day” Russia "gets exposed" and receives threats that “irrefutable evidence” will be released, but every time “this evidence disappears somewhere.”

“And the confusion is being covered with new, more fantastic accusations,” he added.The Russian official, whose name was not disclosed, criticized Ukraine’s military management for lacking understanding and experience.

"You don’t need to be an expert to understand, after looking at bios of [Ukraine’s] current military management, and especially the ‘anti-terrorist operation’, that these people do not have either military education or practical experience of organized planning and use of troops and weapons,” he said.

Russia’s Security Council also issued a statement of Thursday saying that Moscow is not interested in war with its "brotherly nation.""We don't want war with Ukraine. For us, that would be counterproductive because in that case we would be fighting a brotherly people," Evgeny Lukyanov, deputy secretary of the body that advises President Vladimir Putin on security told RIA Novosti.

"War with Ukraine is not in our interest. It is our border, our family relations and our economic ties. It is a big problem for us and we don't see any way out other than a political one."

The Security Council said a war in eastern Ukraine entered a “stage of ethnic cleansing,” referring to the Russian-speaking population in the region.“There is not a civil war in Ukraine, but an ethnic cleansing of the Russian-speaking population of the southeast of this country," Lukyanov said.

 

[BeyondFedUp]

Moscow: Kiev allegations that Russian jet downed Ukraine plane absurd

http://rt.com/news/173604-ukraine-jet-downed-absurd/

Kiev’s accusations that Russia shot down a Ukrainian Su-25 fighter jet are “absurd,†the Russian Ministry of Defense said.“This is absurd, like all previous accusations from Kiev officials concerning Russia’s Ministry of Defense,†a ministerial official told journalists on Thursday.

Kiev has accused Russia of downing its Su-25 fighter jet on June 16.

Andrey Lysenko, spokesman of the Ukrainian National Security and Defense Council, said a Russian military jet shot down a plane that was fulfilling a military operation over the east of Ukraine at 19:00 local time. Earlier Kiev blamed the attack on self-defense forces.

On Wednesday, self-defense forces claimed they had shot down two of the Ukrainian Air Force Su-25 fighter jets.

The high-ranked Defense Ministry official said that “almost every day†Russia "gets exposed" and receives threats that “irrefutable evidence†will be released, but every time “this evidence disappears somewhere.â€

“And the confusion is being covered with new, more fantastic accusations,†he added.The Russian official, whose name was not disclosed, criticized Ukraine’s military management for lacking understanding and experience.

"You don’t need to be an expert to understand, after looking at bios of [Ukraine’s] current military management, and especially the ‘anti-terrorist operation’, that these people do not have either military education or practical experience of organized planning and use of troops and weapons,†he said.

Russia’s Security Council also issued a statement of Thursday saying that Moscow is not interested in war with its "brotherly nation.""We don't want war with Ukraine. For us, that would be counterproductive because in that case we would be fighting a brotherly people," Evgeny Lukyanov, deputy secretary of the body that advises President Vladimir Putin on security told RIA Novosti.

"War with Ukraine is not in our interest. It is our border, our family relations and our economic ties. It is a big problem for us and we don't see any way out other than a political one."

The Security Council said a war in eastern Ukraine entered a “stage of ethnic cleansing,†referring to the Russian-speaking population in the region.“There is not a civil war in Ukraine, but an ethnic cleansing of the Russian-speaking population of the southeast of this country," Lukyanov said.

Already a thread on this.

 

[Charles Martel]

Malaysia Airline crash: 'Sophisticated system' needed to take down plane

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-28354907

Peter Felsted, the editor of Jane's Defence Weekly, said sophisticated weaponry would have been needed to take down a flight travelling at an altitude of 10,000m (33,000ft).

He told the BBC: "Those kind of systems are obviously in the Ukrainian inventory as much as the Russian inventory, but I would say it's much less likely that the Ukrainian rebels who would have had control of one of these systems."

 

[Kaptain]

So now Israel has made use of this distraction to do a huge land grab. Almost as if they knew a major distraction was about to happen.

 

[Charles Martel]

So now Israel has made use of this distraction to do a huge land grab. Almost as if they knew a major distraction was about to happen.

http://rt.com/news/173700-netanyuahu-ground-operation-gaza/

Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu has ordered the military to start a ground operation in Gaza, his office has announced.

 

[Fortitud3]

Anyone remember the genocide by the Serbians that had no bodies?

ZOG will say whatever its want to.

 

[Matra2]

​

The ethnic Russian separatists in Eastern Ukraine are being blamed, but they are not capable of bringing down a plane from such a high altitude.

We don't know that. I've read a couple of reports from Russian and Western (Associated Press) media in recent weeks saying the Russian separatists had captured a Buk anti-aircraft system - though apparently they require a lot of sophistication and manpower to operate. The Russians also claimed responsibility for shooting down a Ukrainian transport plane. That was initially used as evidence by the Ukrainians that it was likely that the separatists did it. But some Western aviation experts are sceptical about the altitude the government claim the transport plane was flying at. The separatists also bragged about shooting down another plane (probably the Malaysian one) then scrubbed the evidence from their social media. It stills exists online but is only available at partisan Ukrainian sites who are doing the translating.

Bottom line is that both sides (and especially their internet warriors) are such shameless liars we should take anything they say with a grain of salt.

 

[Kaptain]

We don't know that. I've read a couple of reports from Russian and Western (Associated Press) media in recent weeks saying the Russian separatists had captured a Buk anti-aircraft system - though apparently they require a lot of sophistication and manpower to operate. The Russians also claimed responsibility for shooting down a Ukrainian transport plane. That was initially used as evidence by the Ukrainians that it was likely that the separatists did it. But some Western aviation experts are sceptical about the altitude the government claim the transport plane was flying at. The separatists also bragged about shooting down another plane (probably the Malaysian one) then scrubbed the evidence from their social media. It stills exists online but is only available at partisan Ukrainian sites who are doing the translating.

Bottom line is that both sides (and especially their internet warriors) are such shameless liars we should take anything they say with a grain of salt.

And all the information you just gave is what Fox News and others have been reporting immediately following the event. Propaganda - reports from unnamed sources, unidentified social media etc. All meant to shape your thinking. The News has already declared Russia guilty - which means, of course, that they are completely innocent.

 

[Matra2]

And all the information you just gave is what Fox News and others have been reporting immediately following the event. Propaganda - reports from unnamed sources, unidentified social media etc. All meant to shape your thinking. The News has already declared Russia guilty - which means, of course, that they are completely innocent.

Stupidest post yet. No wonder people think WNists are morons. How about waiting a few days until we get more info? You are just like Fox News in jumping to conclusions.

 

[The Hock]

Did anyone else catch that MNBC clip where some guy claiming to be a Sergeant stationed at the embassy and had witnessed the plane being shot down. When he came on he said something like "the plane was shot down by a blast of air from Howard Stern's ass." The anchor looked puzzled then let him go on and he said "you're about a dumb ass aren't you?" Then they cut to commercial. Bizarre.

http://youtu.be/uqOH929Yk7E

 

[Lew]

Stupidest post yet. No wonder people think WNists are morons. How about waiting a few days until we get more info? You are just like Fox News in jumping to conclusions.

I think you're out of line here. Kaptain is one of the most respected posters on this site. On the other hand all I seem to see you do around here is insult people and get into needless arguments

 

[Charles Martel]

I think you're out of line here. Kaptain is one of the most respected posters on this site. On the other hand all I seem to see you do around here is insult people and get into needless arguments

Matra2 has been banned from here in the past.
Have you noticed he's very pro-Zionist? :kev:

 

[Don Wassall]

Let's stop the insults among respected posters or the thread will be closed. There is no political litmus test here, discussions have to be kept civil.

 

[Matra2]

Matra2 is a previously banned troll.

Have you noticed he's very pro-Zionist? :kev:

I've never been banned here. I changed from Matra1 to Matra2 a couple of years ago when the site was having problems. Before that, many years ago I used just Matra but lost my log-in info though I didn't post much then. I've never used any other name here.

As far as I know you can look up every post ever made here under those names. So I challenge you to provide some examples of my Zionism. And by Zionism I mean Zionism not just anything that Muslims disagree with.

 

[Don Wassall]

Yes, Matra has never been banned, he re-registered when the site was rebuilt and some posters couldn't log in when the forum changed from Webwiz to V-Bulletin software. I look forward to Matra's posts and agree with about 95% of them, just as I agree with about 95% of the posts of the other posters who are disagreeing with him in this thread so let's cool it and discuss the incident at hand like the intelligent White men we are.

 

[Matra2]

Sorry Don. Kneejerk bipolar politics rubs me the wrong way. Too many WNists have their own version of the mentality that you are either a Democrat or Republican and no other view can exist. I'll try to ignore certain posters in future.

 

[jaxvid]

No matter what happened the media will make it out to be Russias fault. The neocons are already starting the drumbeat. Faux news has a story "there will be hell to pay". Yeah sure the US can borrow some more money from China-Russia's ally to go more into debt so as to send a rainbow division of **** and dykes over there to teach them a lesson.

 

[icsept]

Why should anyone who did not witness the event believe that a plane was shot down? The News is nothing but an endless series of propaganda and hoaxes.

 

[Fortitud3]

I'm starting to wonder if the Ukrainians intentionally setup this situation. The Russian separatists could very well of shot it down, but if the story that there was 2 Ukrainian jets in the same area is true, anyone with a brain should blame this on the Ukraine.

They were conducting military operations and decided to just let a commercial jet just come on through?

 

[Matra2]

Whilst researching this on an airline website I accidentally saw pictures of murdered Dutch children. (No doubt the locals on the ground, whether Russian or Ukrainian, will have been looting anything still on their persons). Those children who will never get to pass on their genes were worth more to our race than most of the Russians and Ukrainians in existence. (But hey, who cares about dead blond children from northern Europe when there are dead Semites in the Middle East to cry over?) Anyone who has ever travelled there knows there is a massive difference on each side of the border between Ukraine and Poland/Slovakia. In Poland and Slovakia you have normal white people who, despite being relatively poor, make a go of it and treat visitors the same way they are treated in white America and western Europe. On the other side? Mostly (not exclusively, of course) lying, vodka-swilling thieves (especially in the Russian parts) always on the make who blame everything that ever goes wrong in their lives on their neighbours.

Assuming this was done by Russian rebels, who originally bragged about it thinking they were shooting down a Ukrainian plane, it is hard to know who to blame the most. The Russians led by Igor "Strelkov" (what is it with Russians and their fake pretentious names?) with their pathological lying, culture of idiocy, and their never ending war against "Nazism" and "fascism". (Russian brains are permanently frozen in 1941 forever fighting the Nazis. Anyone who ever disagrees with them - Alexander Dubcek, Lech Walesa, maybe even Barack Obama! - is always a Nazi/fascist). The Ukrainians who told airlines it was still safe and who, privately, are no doubt happy about this (As I discovered in Canada, which has a large Ukie population, Ukrainian nationalists are petty, ignorant peasants who, like Russians, are never ever to blame for anything). The Americans, mostly Jews, and their European lapdogs, who, once again, stuck their noses into somebody else's business thus leading to the current mess. The people killed had nothing to do with this pathetic war between two dysfunctional and degenerate nations. I wish we would just seal off Europe from all these ex-Soviet Republics (except the three civilised Baltic states) and forget their very existence..

 

[Charles Martel]

I think the Ukrainian military shot it down, thinking it was a Russian plane.

 

[Fortitud3]

Whilst researching this on an airline website I accidentally saw pictures of murdered Dutch children. (No doubt the locals on the ground, whether Russian or Ukrainian, will have been looting anything still on their persons). Those children who will never get to pass on their genes were worth more to our race than most of the Russians and Ukrainians in existence. (But hey, who cares about dead blond children from northern Europe when there are dead Semites in the Middle East to cry over?) Anyone who has ever travelled there knows there is a massive difference on each side of the border between Ukraine and Poland/Slovakia. In Poland and Slovakia you have normal white people who, despite being relatively poor, make a go of it and treat visitors the same way they are treated in white America and western Europe. On the other side? Mostly (not exclusively, of course) lying, vodka-swilling thieves (especially in the Russian parts) always on the make who blame everything that ever goes wrong in their lives on their neighbours.

Assuming this was done by Russian rebels, who originally bragged about it thinking they were shooting down a Ukrainian plane, it is hard to know who to blame the most. The Russians led by Igor "Strelkov" (what is it with Russians and their fake pretentious names?) with their pathological lying, culture of idiocy, and their never ending war against "Nazism" and "fascism". (Russian brains are permanently frozen in 1941 forever fighting the Nazis. Anyone who ever disagrees with them - Alexander Dubcek, Lech Walesa, maybe even Barack Obama! - is always a Nazi/fascist). The Ukrainians who told airlines it was still safe and who, privately, are no doubt happy about this (As I discovered in Canada, which has a large Ukie population, Ukrainian nationalists are petty, ignorant peasants who, like Russians, are never ever to blame for anything). The Americans, mostly Jews, and their European lapdogs, who, once again, stuck their noses into somebody else's business thus leading to the current mess. The people killed had nothing to do with this pathetic war between two dysfunctional and degenerate nations. I wish we would just seal off Europe from all these ex-Soviet Republics (except the three civilised Baltic states) and forget their very existence..

Are you serious?

CNN already tried to force the "RUSSIAN SEPARATISTS ARE LOOTING DEAD BODIES," angle and the reporter on the ground shot it down instantly and also shot down the whole "they're destroying all the evidence," angle too.

Too much twitter things going on this whole coverage, some crap about the black box and plane parts being taken to Moscow(like how would you know, seriously just say Russia, why the **** would they take it to Moscow?) or some uninformed Twitter account tweeting about a AN-26 being shot down. I would hope Strelkov would know that a AN-26's service ceiling is 26k not 33k.

 

[Kaptain]

Whilst researching this on an airline website I accidentally saw pictures of murdered Dutch children. (No doubt the locals on the ground, whether Russian or Ukrainian, will have been looting anything still on their persons). Those children who will never get to pass on their genes were worth more to our race than most of the Russians and Ukrainians in existence. (But hey, who cares about dead blond children from northern Europe when there are dead Semites in the Middle East to cry over?) Anyone who has ever travelled there knows there is a massive difference on each side of the border between Ukraine and Poland/Slovakia. In Poland and Slovakia you have normal white people who, despite being relatively poor, make a go of it and treat visitors the same way they are treated in white America and western Europe. On the other side? Mostly (not exclusively, of course) lying, vodka-swilling thieves (especially in the Russian parts) always on the make who blame everything that ever goes wrong in their lives on their neighbours.

Assuming this was done by Russian rebels, who originally bragged about it thinking they were shooting down a Ukrainian plane, it is hard to know who to blame the most. The Russians led by Igor "Strelkov" (what is it with Russians and their fake pretentious names?) with their pathological lying, culture of idiocy, and their never ending war against "Nazism" and "fascism". (Russian brains are permanently frozen in 1941 forever fighting the Nazis. Anyone who ever disagrees with them - Alexander Dubcek, Lech Walesa, maybe even Barack Obama! - is always a Nazi/fascist). The Ukrainians who told airlines it was still safe and who, privately, are no doubt happy about this (As I discovered in Canada, which has a large Ukie population, Ukrainian nationalists are petty, ignorant peasants who, like Russians, are never ever to blame for anything). The Americans, mostly Jews, and their European lapdogs, who, once again, stuck their noses into somebody else's business thus leading to the current mess. The people killed had nothing to do with this pathetic war between two dysfunctional and degenerate nations. I wish we would just seal off Europe from all these ex-Soviet Republics (except the three civilised Baltic states) and forget their very existence..

What a coincidence. I laughed out loud this morning when News informed me that the Ukrainian coup government was concerned about the drunk Russians interfering with the investigation and now, of course, looting the dead Dutch children. Cause we all know how common looting dead people is for those evil drunk white Russians. Reminded me of all those drunk Nazis in Hollyweird films. We know how undisciplined the Nazis were after all.

And you're absolutely right - who cares about Semites dying in the Middle East just as long and none of them are Jews and the money from us keeps coming. Thankfully you have made light of how the media is ignoring this Airline tragedy and only concentrating on how tragic it is that innocent Palestinian children are being killed. Damn the news - always taking the Mussies side.

It's funny how all of our research and investigation has just proven our (our = the U.S. government and media) knee-jerk original theories 100% correct. We got the narrative within minutes and, just a coincidence I'm sure, our narrative was exactly right as proven by the evidence we will never be allowed to see.

Just another knee-jerk stupid post.

 

[werewolf]

"We got the narrative within minutes and, just a coincidence I'm sure, our narrative was exactly right as proven by the evidence we will never be allowed to see. "

Exactly like on 911, and Sandy Hoax and Boston and all their other false flags.

Their multiracial multisexual army has got their butts kicked everyplace from Grenada to Somalia to Afghanistan, and now the puppetmasters in Washington and the media that pull the strings of the dim-witted homosexual figurehead presidentess, Barry, and her tranny wife, and smirking little Joey Biden et al, are foaming at the mouth to start a war with Russia and China!? Are you f'ing kidding me? How do they plan to fight a war with China? Almost everything in the USSA is now made in China, including the shoes that their gay army swishes on and the flags they have the canon fodder attach to the back of their pickup trucks! And Russia? Russia isn't Iraq? Russia kicks ass!


Paul Craig Roberts, cutting through the zio-bs, as always:

What Happened to the Malaysian Airliner? — Paul Craig Roberts


http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2014...to-the-malaysian-airliner-paul-craig-roberts/


"Washington’s propaganda machine is in such high gear that we are in danger of losing the facts that we do have. One fact is that the separatists do not have the expensive Buk anti-aircraft missile system or the trained personnel to operate it. Another fact is that the separatists have no incentive to shoot down an airliner and neither does Russia. Anyone can tell the difference between low-flying attack aircraft and an airliner at 33,000 feet. The Ukrainians do have Buk anti-aircraft missile systems, and a Buk battery was operational in the region and deployed at a site from which it could have fired a missile at the airliner.
Just as the separatists and the Russian government have no incentive to shoot down an airliner, neither does the Ukrainian government nor, one would think, even the crazed extreme Ukrainian nationalists who have formed militias to take the fight against the separatists that the Ukrainian army is not keen to undertake–unless there was a plan to frame Russia. ..."