Major Virgina Tech Shooting, 22 dead

[screamingeagle]

Immigrants should be forbidden to buy and own guns. Guns are for American citizens only.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

The shooter might have been stopped after a few kills if people were allowed to carry pistols on campus.

Freedom is completely wrong. He wants to disarm everybody. That's what happened at Virginia Tech. Now everybody who obeyed the law is dead, and the one guy who did not obey the law killed them.

Rarely do shooters get far in concealed carry zones. They are often stopped after a few kills by other citizens with guns.

2002, Appalachian School of Law: Peter Odighizuwa, a student from Nigeria, killed 3 people, including the dean, and wounded 3 other people, with a .380 automatic. Student Tracy Bridges heard the shooting and got his revolver from his car. Confronting Odighizuwa as he walked out of the office, Bridges aimed his revolver at Odighizuwa and order him to surrender. Odighizuwa dropped his gun and Bridges and another student tackled him.

2007, Salt Lake City. Sulejmen Talovic, a muslim refugee from Bosnia, walked into Trolley Square Mall with a 12 gauge shotgun and a .38 revolver and began shooting. After killing 5 people and wounding 4, he turned on Ken Hammond, who was eating in the mall. Hammond immediately drew his concealed pistol and took cover behind a cinder block support column and exchanged fire with Talovic, firing 10 shots, hitting and killing the shooter.

Hammond was an off-duty cop from Ogden. Just thought I'd make that clear. Still, your point is well taken. There should be concealed carry laws in every state.

 

[remark22]

I am curious to see what motives the media will give the shooter. For white males, they traditionally cite "heavy metal music" as a prime source. I wonder what ridiculous crap they'll pull out now.

 

[Guest]

Apparently, after an incident in August '06, there was a law introduced to allow concealed carry at Virginia Tech, but it got voted down.

At VT, people licensed to carry in Virginia are required to store their guns in a safe room at the VT police station. In January '07, when the concealed carry law was voted down, there were SEVENTY FIVE guns in this safe.

What if just 2 or 3 of these 75 guns had been available on Monday instead of being locked in a police safe where nobody could get them?

 

[sport historian]

I am curious to see what motives the media will give the shooter. For white males, they traditionally cite "heavy metal music" as a prime source. I wonder what ridiculous crap they'll pull out now.

Alienation from a racist society.

 

[Hockaday]

I am curious to see what motives the media will give the shooter. For white males, they traditionally cite "heavy metal music" as a prime source. I wonder what ridiculous crap they'll pull out now.

Alienation from a racist society.

BINGO!

Edited by: Hockaday

 

[guest301]

Dixie makes the point I came to this thread to make myself. One armed citizen could have ended this the moment it began. The irony of one who calls himself "Freedom" arguing the case for further loss of liberty.

I don't know if any of the students thought to fight back or rush this madman, but if you follow these types of stories long enough you notice a disturbing trend: No one ever fights back. The assassin will move from one person to the next, killing them execution style and no one moves to defend themselves; not the second person line and not the twentieth in line. They wait for the arrival of their executioner.

There was an Iranian that took hostages in a bar several years ago. He had a vendetta against the U.S. (surprise, surprise) and took out his frustration on two blonde women in the bar. He sexually humiliated them, and then forced other patrons (hostages) to sodomize these women with items he brought into the bar with him. Not one of the men in this group thought to attack this Iranian and prevent such degradation. Where would a man find the will to look himself in the mirror the rest of his life after taking part in the rape and torture of an innocent person? Where is honor?

There truly are some things worse than death.

I agree with you Shogun. There are some things that gnaw on a man worse than dying. Where is the honor in the situation you described above. If a few professors, janitors and yes even students had weapons permits the casualty level would have been much lower. I also say that in a situation like this that even if you don't have a weapon if the crowd would charge into the gunmen en masse, he couldn't kill more than three or four before the crowd got to him. I know that's hard to do in the chaos and horror of the moment. But there has got to be a better option than hiding under a desk or just pleading and screaming at the gunman to not shoot you. I don't want to go out that way.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

Dixie makes the point I came to this thread to make myself. One armed citizen could have ended this the moment it began. The irony of one who calls himself "Freedom" arguing the case for further loss of liberty.

I don't know if any of the students thought to fight back or rush this madman, but if you follow these types of stories long enough you notice a disturbing trend: No one ever fights back. The assassin will move from one person to the next, killing them execution style and no one moves to defend themselves; not the second person line and not the twentieth in line. They wait for the arrival of their executioner.

There was an Iranian that took hostages in a bar several years ago. He had a vendetta against the U.S. (surprise, surprise) and took out his frustration on two blonde women in the bar. He sexually humiliated them, and then forced other patrons (hostages) to sodomize these women with items he brought into the bar with him. Not one of the men in this group thought to attack this Iranian and prevent such degradation. Where would a man find the will to look himself in the mirror the rest of his life after taking part in the rape and torture of an innocent person? Where is honor?

There truly are some things worse than death.

I agree with you Shogun. There are some things that gnaw on a man worse than dying. Where is the honor in the situation you described above. If a few professors, janitors and yes even students had weapons permits the casualty level would have been much lower. I also say that in a situation like this that even if you don't have a weapon if the crowd would charge into the gunmen en masse, he couldn't kill more than three or four before the crowd got to him. I know that's hard to do in the chaos and horror of the moment. But there has got to be a better option than hiding under a desk or just pleading and screaming at the gunman to not shoot you. I don't want to go out that way.

WS & Guest301, excellent points. I understand the fear and panic in these situations, but you have to let "fight or flight" kick in. I also understand it's easy to talk "tough" when you're not in the cross-hairs (literally), BUT I'll be damned if I sit silently by waiting to get greased! It's better to die fighting (with yer boots on) like a man then to die on your knees groveling to a sick maniac! At that point, you've nothing to lose, so why not go out on the offensive!!!

BTW, I've no doubt this weak-minded mentality has it's roots in the socialist indoctrination spoon-fed to kids these days. From the "Metrosexual" to men constantly being bashed & lampooned on TV shows/commercials to now this. It's a crying shame, and you can bet yer bottom dollar I won't/don't raise my kids that way!

P.S. - As predicted (& probably planned), the assault on our 2nd Amendment has begun!

[url]http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8OIGHU00&show_artic le=1[/url]

 

[Hockaday]

Massachusetts, huh? Figures.

whats wrong with Mass., im from there and i can see that gun control doesn't appear to be the way to go...

Little bit of a cheap shot there. I was tired, and I knew this incident would become ammo for more attacks on the 2nd Amendment. Then to see someone on this board falling for that trick, I got a little chapped. Then I see Massachusetts. Ted Kennedy. Harvard. Eastern Seaboard and all that. Birthplace of liberalism. Hotbed of gun control.

So I stereotyped. I apologize. I guess I need some sensitivity training.

 

[reclaimsocal]

I don't doubt the evil intent of the Globalist elite, but this is simply an opportunity for them to advance their agenda, not some false flag op. If it were false flag you could bet your bottom dollar that it would have been a White Male used, and that he would have been targeting minorities. Why run a false flag without maximizing your benefit.

The bottom line is that this will lead to more gun control laws, I'm sure my State will find a way to use this to further restrict and already smothering legal code.

I also totally agree that immigrants and/or "guests" should not be allowed to purchase or own weapons of any kind. Furthermore, they should be forced to sign away anything more then their basic fundamental human rights upon entry to this country (especially access to any social services/payouts) and if they don't like it they can stay the F out.

Lets see if they bury this story as quickly as they buried the Hunting massacre by that Hmong immigrant.

 

[sport historian]

The killer left an invective-filled note in his room. He railed against "rich kids, deceitful charlatans, and debauchery." As I wrote above, that will be the excuse used for what happened.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

The killer left an invective-filled note in his room. He railed against "rich kids, deceitful charlatans, and debauchery." As I wrote above, that will be the excuse used for what happened.

There's no doubt he'll (eventually) get a pass, as the focus is kept solely on more "police state" and attacking our Constitutional 2nd Amendment rights!

 

[guest301]

So that was what upset him? Deceitful charlatans and debauchery. What is he, "God's avenger". I guess a homicidal manaic is much better.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

Fyi, here's a quick, accurate article for those of you who think limiting our 2nd Amendment rights is the solution here....

Virginia Tech Shooting -- Gun Bans Are The Problem, Not The Solution

www.gunowners.org | April 17, 2007
Eddie Isler or Ellie McDaniel

"When will we learn that being defenseless is a bad defense," asked Larry Pratt, Executive Director of Gun Owners of America?

"All the school shootings that have ended abruptly in the last ten years were stopped because a law-abiding citizen -- a potential victim -- had a gun," Pratt said.

"The latest school shooting demands an immediate end to the gun-free zone law which leaves the nation's schools at the mercy of madmen. It is irresponsibly dangerous to tell citizens that they may not have guns at schools. The Virginia Tech shooting shows that killers have no concern about a gun ban when murder is in their hearts.

"Not far from Virginia Tech, a killer was stopped at the Appalachian School of Law when two students were able to go off campus to their vehicles and get their guns which they used to subdue the killer. Sadly, not even that awkward defense was available at Virginia Tech.

"Isn't it interesting that Utah and Oregon are the only two states that allows faculty to carry guns on campus. And isn't it interesting that you haven't read about any school or university shootings in Utah or Oregon? Why not? Because criminals don't like having their victims shoot back at them," Pratt said. "That's why the American people want an end to this ineffective gun ban."

Pollsters have found that 85% of Americans would find it appropriate for a principal or teacher to use "a gun at school to defend the lives of students" to stop a school massacre (Research 2000 poll).

The words of Virginia Tech spokesman, Larry Hincker, should be haunting him in the wake of the massacre at his school. Last year, a bill was killed in the Virginia legislature to enable those with concealed weapons permits to carry their guns at schools. Hincker said that "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

"Gun Owners of America has called on Congress to repeal its deadly law requiring gun free school zones," said Pratt. "Likewise, the call has been made to state legislatures to enact legislation enabling people with concealed carry permits to be able to have their weapons with them in schools."

Edited by: DixieDestroyer

 

[White Shogun]

This is actually the worst situation the 'globalists' and left-wing pro-immigrant's rights groups could have asked for: an ]i]alien[/] who wantonly and brazenly kills by firearm a dorm full of college students because of 'debauchery.'

If you think people were pissed after the most recent slew of drunk driving murders committed by aliens, wait til they piece this one together. Undoubtedly though everyone on the left will say that this is not the time for 'divisiveness' but a time for 'healing,' for 'coming together,' and for 'unity.'

Isn't it funny that we can predict down to the very phrases how the left will react in situations like these? Not to mention the great photo op this presents for candidates and perennial politicians to 'feel sympathy,' and 'deep regret.'

The fact that this guy wanted to kill people for 'debauchery' should make everyone's hair stand on end, as that is exactly the chief complaint of the fundie-muslims against us.

EDITED TO ADD: The spin has already begun. The most recent article didn't say he was an 'immigrant,' but instead wrote that he came from South Korea as a boy and was raised in suburban Washington D.C., where his parents owned a dry cleaning store.

What's more, under this line in the article, Stories of heroism and ingenuity emerged Tuesday, was this paragraph:

Liviu Librescu, an Israeli engineering and math lecturer, was killed after he was said to have protected his students' lives by blocking the doorway of his classroom from the gunman. And one student, an Eagle Scout, probably saved his own life by using an electrical cord as a tourniquet around his bleeding thigh, a doctor reported.

I wonder if the Eagle Scout was a black kid? That would be the perfect liberal ending to this story.

Edited by: White Shogun

 

[nhl411]

Massachusetts, huh? Figures.

whats wrong with Mass., im from there and i can see that gun control doesn't appear to be the way to go...

Little bit of a cheap shot there. I was tired, and I knew this incident would become ammo for more attacks on the 2nd Amendment. Then to see someone on this board falling for that trick, I got a little chapped. Then I see Massachusetts. Ted Kennedy. Harvard. Eastern Seaboard and all that. Birthplace of liberalism. Hotbed of gun control.

So I stereotyped. I apologize. I guess I need some sensitivity training.

yeah i suppose you're right haha..i just consider myself to be extremely in the middle on politics (left on some things right on the other)so sometimes i hate getting lumped in with my fellow bostonians...you made a good poin tho

 

[Freedom]

It's still a bad idea to let anyone own a gun and not monitor suspicious purchases. Someone buying lots and lots of ammo is probably not going to protect themselves. And if they're walking into a city, what do they think 20 people are going to attack their house? Unless he lives in a really dangerous neighborhood, he's ready to kill somebody.

Guns are for protection, nothing else. There are a lot of guns that would protect well but not attack well. What would have been the death toll had the killer had to reload more often? If he had to reload, he could've been tackled.

I have nothing to do with Harvard University, I never met Ted Kennedy though I know a kid that torched his fence, and liberalism doesn't really have a birthplace. What do political buzzwords like liberal even mean? I'm not saying they should repeal the 2nd Amendment. I'm just saying that most citizens should only be allowed to own certain guns that would be adequate for defense but not attack.

I own a shotgun and I only have had to use it once, to kill a rabid animal. I've also been hunting, but not with my friend's guns. Edited by: Freedom

 

[nhl411]

i kind agree with you on guns freedom: i dont believe we should stop people from owning any sort of handgun/weapon for protection etc. but i do think that owning weapons like AK's etc. is overkill and shouldn't be allowed.

 

[White Shogun]

You wouldn't repeal the 2nd amendment, but you would infringe upon it and limit it.

Just like our government has done with every other Constitutional right. It is after all a living document, right?

 

[Colonel_Reb]

You can't own a real AK47 guys. All fully-auto weapons have been illegal since 1968 thanks to LBJ. An SKS is the semi-auto version of an AK, and they are legal, and I'm glad they are. Guns are used for a lot more than protection, at least where I come from. They are for getting some food, and having some fun in the bayous. You are missing something if you've never been on a snake shoot. If you disarm citizens, there is nothing to stop a tyranical government from running roughshod over everyone. With the bans that are already on the books, we are practically there already. Buying lots of ammo is not a signal that someone will commit a crime. Many sportsmen or .22 owners routinely stock up on ammo. Why have a gun at all if you don't prepare for the worst? If/when the time comes in my lifetime, I'll have an extrato lend tothose of you who don't think it is necessary.

 

[screamingeagle]

The killer had a green card. I stand by what I said. No guns or ammo for Immigrants or anyone with a green card.

BTW, this was not a strange purchase. The killer had no convictions and bought 500 rounds of targetammunition.

Protect Ammericans, no guns for immigrants.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

I understand the point about immigrants having guns, but come on guys, you're falling for the liberal spinsters when you quote things like "target ammo." Who really knows what kind of ammo he bought. The libs will say anything to scare us into submission. Target ammo sounds more sinister, so they print it. He used a 9MM and a .22. Most target ammo made for .22s is no more accurate than anything else. They have a heavier bullet that is slow, and it has a round nose. If he had wanted to do the most damage and been accurate too, he would have gotten some CCI Stingers-hollow point, lighter bullet, more velocity. Same thing with 9mm target rounds. Liberals love to throw out emotive words to try to further their agenda. Don't fall for it.

 

[Sean Carlisle]

Gun control might work only if it meant whites have guns and non whites don't. That is my idea of gun control.
There is a misonmer that whites are prone to serial killings, mutilations and mass killing episodes while other races, particular *******, are not. This is becoming more widely disproved by cases like the VA Tech shootings (Asian shooter), the Midwester dear hunters' killings, the NY subway gun man, the John Malvo snipings, the Williams Atlanta serial murders among others. Even the main kid in the Columbine shootings was Jewish which is not really white.
Due to the fact we are still percentage wise the majority in the US odds are that a good number of serial/mass killers and such will turn out to be white but I would bet we have less per capita than blacks for instance yet blacks are inaccuratly percieved otherwise.

 

[nhl411]

u cant buy ak47s or other automatic rifles as far as i know but you CAN buy a conversion kit which is essentyially the same thing...i guess i just feel that having a weapon for defense doesn't necessitate having a fully automatic weapon like that as it truly seems like gross overkill. thus if such a weapon isn't to be used for defense then i don't see why it should be allowed at all even if you must convert it. Other things like semiautomatic (not easily convertible)rifles, shotguns etc. i have no issue with.

 

[jared]

It is perfectly legal to own a fully automatic weapon, provided you pay the money and take the classes to register for a Class III weapons permit. I could buy a silencer for my AR-15 if I wanted to shell out the money and do the paperwork as well. I think that's a fine system; people SHOULD have to take certain classes and pay certain fees to own assault weapons. I would even consider taking it further by making ALL firearms purchases go through some sort of registration system. We do it with cars, why not with guns? I could go buy a semi-auto AK-47 w/ 30 round mag (not quite the same as an SKS by the way) next week at the local gunshow from a private dealer with no background check or waiting period at all. I'm not entirely sure that such freedom is a good idea. Under our current government, I have no problem supporting the idea of waiting periods, background checks, or gun registration. Removing firearms from private citizens altogether however is too big of a step toward a 1984 type scenario.
As an aside, attempting to fire rifles accurately on full automatic is extremely difficult if you're not well trained. This is the reason the U.S. Army has abandoned the full auto feature on their M-16's in favor of the (somewhat) more controllable 3 round burst. A semi auto is honestly probably more dangerous in the hands of an amateur, psychotic college student because he'll be able to control his shots better and not waste ammo and reloading time. Unless you a) have a bipod b) are firing a small caliber weapon c) are less than 10 yards away from your target or d) are just trying to make a lot of noise, there's really not much reason to fire a weapon on full auto in my opinion.