hollywoodnorth
Guru
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whateverEdited by: hollywoodnorth1
JGS,
Did you get picked on at school or something? You sure remind me of the type of"hominid" that would get his lunch money bullied away.
Why posts on this site if you think everyone is too stupid to understand your level of vocabulary? I'm not impressed with your vocabulary and neither is anyone else. I understood your theories, but found them completely illogical and filled with gooblede*******. An expanded vocabulary should be used only to accentuate a point or make the point more clearly. Your use (misuse) of vocabulary does the exact opposite. Any "9th grade English teacher" will tell you so. Let me give just one example of the many I could "cherry-pick" from your writings. You use the term "hominid" as if you are very proud you know the definition of the word. The only hominids that still exists are humans - say humans dummy.
"Cherry-Picking" words you actually wrote in an effort to prove your erroneous point is not "Cherry-Picking". I have an all new "cherry" to pick for you to chew on. Lack of body hair proves neoteny among Asians. Do Nordic types lack body hair also? What of African's lack of body hair?
Finally, some "hominids" have been trying to prove whites, in particular Nordic whites, are athletically inferior and using psuedoscience to accomplish their agenda. Here is a list of all the things I have heard but have seen no evidence supported with scientific rigor:
Nordic types:
1. Slower patellar-tendon reaction times - (should be easy to prove - can't find any credible evidence - also defies logic as a reflex arc is a simple electical/chemical signal and the same for all hominids).
2. Shorter Arm Span (I've only seen some evidence that Asians have slighty shorter arm-span)
3. Larger Chest cavity (I have no idea why this is often named as an athletic disadvantage)
4. Lower centers of gravity than Africans. (I thought this was an advatage for RBs)
5. Neoteny. (The largest bodied, strongest, deepest chested, and hairest hominids on the planet - doesn't fly.) They also dominated the planet with brute force for centuries. The Norsemen were known for thier brutish savagery and physcal domination. Their empire extended well into the "swarthy" Middle East.
6. The infamous lack of fast-twitch muscle. (The only way to prove this is to cut apart dead people and no one has done this with any scientific rigor). Also there is evidence that fast/slow twitch muscle is environmental or the result of training. In other words thismythwas completely invented by someone with an agenda.
7. Low blood testosterone. (I have found no studies to prove this either and it should be pretty easy to prove).
8. Finally, lack of androgen receptors. (enough said)
The fact that none of these have been proven to be true and/or the ones that are true proven to hold some athletic disadvantage says enough. Don't be brainwashed into believing Whites or Nordics are overall athletically inferior. Even some of our most devoted posters have fell into the trap of believing some of these theories.
Did you get picked on at school or something? You sure remind me of the type of"hominid" that would get his lunch money bullied away.
Why posts on this site if you think everyone is too stupid to understand your level of vocabulary? I'm not impressed with your vocabulary and neither is anyone else. I understood your theories, but found them completely illogical and filled with gooblede*******. An expanded vocabulary should be used only to accentuate a point or make the point more clearly. Your use (misuse) of vocabulary does the exact opposite. Any "9th grade English teacher" will tell you so. Let me give just one example of the many I could "cherry-pick" from your writings. You use the term "hominid" as if you are very proud you know the definition of the word. The only hominids that still exists are humans - say humans dummy.
"Cherry-Picking" words you actually wrote in an effort to prove your erroneous point is not "Cherry-Picking". I have an all new "cherry" to pick for you to chew on. Lack of body hair proves neoteny among Asians. Do Nordic types lack body hair also? What of African's lack of body hair?
Finally, some "hominids" have been trying to prove whites, in particular Nordic whites, are athletically inferior and using psuedoscience to accomplish their agenda. Here is a list of all the things I have heard but have seen no evidence supported with scientific rigor:
Nordic types:
1. Slower patellar-tendon reaction times - (should be easy to prove - can't find any credible evidence - also defies logic as a reflex arc is a simple electical/chemical signal and the same for all hominids).
2. Shorter Arm Span (I've only seen some evidence that Asians have slighty shorter arm-span)
3. Larger Chest cavity (I have no idea why this is often named as an athletic disadvantage)
4. Lower centers of gravity than Africans. (I thought this was an advatage for RBs)
5. Neoteny. (The largest bodied, strongest, deepest chested, and hairest hominids on the planet - doesn't fly.) They also dominated the planet with brute force for centuries. The Norsemen were known for thier brutish savagery and physcal domination. Their empire extended well into the "swarthy" Middle East.
6. The infamous lack of fast-twitch muscle. (The only way to prove this is to cut apart dead people and no one has done this with any scientific rigor). Also there is evidence that fast/slow twitch muscle is environmental or the result of training. In other words thismythwas completely invented by someone with an agenda.
7. Low blood testosterone. (I have found no studies to prove this either and it should be pretty easy to prove).
8. Finally, lack of androgen receptors. (enough said)
The fact that none of these have been proven to be true and/or the ones that are true proven to hold some athletic disadvantage says enough. Don't be brainwashed into believing Whites or Nordics are overall athletically inferior. Even some of our most devoted posters have fell into the trap of believing some of these theories.
White_Savage
Mentor
Jervey:
Insult all you want, but it wasn't entirely clear to ANYONE from the outset that you meant "dark guys do better on 'roids", which is why I originally asked if this was the very point you were making.
The other problem is that your observations don't concur with plenty of observations from others. Southern Euro's don't seem to consistently be better athletes than Northern Euros, 'roids or no. Black guys don't tend to outlift whites, and whites don't tend to outsprint blacks, no matter who's darker or who's taking the most steroids. Maybe the differing reactions of individuals to 'roids is a more individual thing than you'd believe. I know a blondie or two on the stuff and it seems to be bulking them up just fine, and they also did well for red-headed Mark McGwire.
Also there is the troubling fact that Nordic Europeans are known historically for being larger and stronger than their Meditereanean counterparts, from Roman times onwards. The tallest average people in the world are currently the Dutch I believe. In the past that title has been held by the various Scandinavians, the Scots, and the Americans. (The Euro Left and, curiously enough, the Neo-Nazis, would both like you to believe this has something to do with socialized medicine, but it likely has alot more to do non-Nordic whites and others being an increasing percentage of America's population.)
You don't like the idea that that some ethnic groups have lower I.Qs and higher criminalities than others? Tough, maybe I don't like a hairy back but that doesn't change my genetics. There's alot more evidence for that garnered over the years for inequity in those areas than for your inequity in 'roids theory. Cultural or genetic, those are so entwined that it's a moot point to argue. So I guess you'll pull out another insult and call me an ignorant racist bigot white-supremacist or something, in spite of the fact that I believe blacks on average probably can run faster than whites, or that Asians average higher on I.Q. tests.
Ah yes, and I note that you take the time to call me "paranoiac" for objecting to the blatantly obvious anti-white racism spewed by television, issues of caste in sport not withstanding. Trust me, if the message of pop culture was "those white boys may not run fast, but they sure can lift" or "give black individuals a chance, even though alot of them are criminals" or anything remotely honest I wouldn't care. If racial discussion was entirely forbidden in the public arena, I would not like that censorship, but at least it would be fair and balanced. But no, it all has a certain spin, a certain pattern, and this is no accident.
BTW, I'm intrigued by your self-description as a "Libertarian-Populist". A Libertarian myself, albeit a politically incorrect one, I didn't know that libertarianism meshed well with populism, or with living in Canada for that matter. Further, while I am also not crazy about the juicing up going in sports, you're not backing any Mccainesque attempt to have government stick it's nose into sport are you? Edited by: White_Savage
Insult all you want, but it wasn't entirely clear to ANYONE from the outset that you meant "dark guys do better on 'roids", which is why I originally asked if this was the very point you were making.
The other problem is that your observations don't concur with plenty of observations from others. Southern Euro's don't seem to consistently be better athletes than Northern Euros, 'roids or no. Black guys don't tend to outlift whites, and whites don't tend to outsprint blacks, no matter who's darker or who's taking the most steroids. Maybe the differing reactions of individuals to 'roids is a more individual thing than you'd believe. I know a blondie or two on the stuff and it seems to be bulking them up just fine, and they also did well for red-headed Mark McGwire.
Also there is the troubling fact that Nordic Europeans are known historically for being larger and stronger than their Meditereanean counterparts, from Roman times onwards. The tallest average people in the world are currently the Dutch I believe. In the past that title has been held by the various Scandinavians, the Scots, and the Americans. (The Euro Left and, curiously enough, the Neo-Nazis, would both like you to believe this has something to do with socialized medicine, but it likely has alot more to do non-Nordic whites and others being an increasing percentage of America's population.)
You don't like the idea that that some ethnic groups have lower I.Qs and higher criminalities than others? Tough, maybe I don't like a hairy back but that doesn't change my genetics. There's alot more evidence for that garnered over the years for inequity in those areas than for your inequity in 'roids theory. Cultural or genetic, those are so entwined that it's a moot point to argue. So I guess you'll pull out another insult and call me an ignorant racist bigot white-supremacist or something, in spite of the fact that I believe blacks on average probably can run faster than whites, or that Asians average higher on I.Q. tests.
Ah yes, and I note that you take the time to call me "paranoiac" for objecting to the blatantly obvious anti-white racism spewed by television, issues of caste in sport not withstanding. Trust me, if the message of pop culture was "those white boys may not run fast, but they sure can lift" or "give black individuals a chance, even though alot of them are criminals" or anything remotely honest I wouldn't care. If racial discussion was entirely forbidden in the public arena, I would not like that censorship, but at least it would be fair and balanced. But no, it all has a certain spin, a certain pattern, and this is no accident.
BTW, I'm intrigued by your self-description as a "Libertarian-Populist". A Libertarian myself, albeit a politically incorrect one, I didn't know that libertarianism meshed well with populism, or with living in Canada for that matter. Further, while I am also not crazy about the juicing up going in sports, you're not backing any Mccainesque attempt to have government stick it's nose into sport are you? Edited by: White_Savage
White_Savage
Mentor
KP:
The only scientific study I've ever seen on races and reflexes asserted that whites have faster "mental processing speed" and blacks have faster "muscular speed", which in their tests resulted in blacks and whites having about the same reaction times. I'm left wondering how they knew one man reacted quickly because of mental processing speed, while another reacted quickly because of muscular speed, making me doubt the whole study.
In any case, there are a range of reflex intensive activities in which whites or other non-blacks are dominant, and I see little reason for any one group of humans to evolve slow reflexes.
The only scientific study I've ever seen on races and reflexes asserted that whites have faster "mental processing speed" and blacks have faster "muscular speed", which in their tests resulted in blacks and whites having about the same reaction times. I'm left wondering how they knew one man reacted quickly because of mental processing speed, while another reacted quickly because of muscular speed, making me doubt the whole study.
In any case, there are a range of reflex intensive activities in which whites or other non-blacks are dominant, and I see little reason for any one group of humans to evolve slow reflexes.
I think that there is WAY too much emphasis here given to genetic/biological explanations for atheletic ability. I am not saying that it is a factor, but IMO motivation, training, and diet are much more of a factor in determining someones athletic ability. How many people actually achieve their genetic potential? Almost none.
It is not unlike high IQ geniuses that are not motivated enough to actually use their intelligence to achieve anything. The people at the top of their professions aren't always the smartest, they are the most motivated and work the hardest. Athletics is no different.
There has never been a scientific study to determine and control all of the factors that affect athletic performance. Until such a study is done, any information is going to be twisted to fit a social viewpoint.
It is not unlike high IQ geniuses that are not motivated enough to actually use their intelligence to achieve anything. The people at the top of their professions aren't always the smartest, they are the most motivated and work the hardest. Athletics is no different.
There has never been a scientific study to determine and control all of the factors that affect athletic performance. Until such a study is done, any information is going to be twisted to fit a social viewpoint.
hollywoodnorth
Guru
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Many of the guys in the NFL aren't natural athletic freaks, a lot of these guys made it because they are mentally strong.
Edited by: hollywoodnorth1
Edited by: hollywoodnorth1
white lightning
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2004
- Messages
- 21,492
I have to admit that you made some good points.Sometimes
at the lower levels of sports,some of them do want it more.
Although,how many white kids are not allowed to play at
the running back,wide receiver or even cornerback going
all the way down to Pop Warner Football.Even alot of the
coaches and parents start the stereotype process that
early on.You can only earn a spot if given a equal
opportunity.We do need to support our own peole and that
is the major reason for this web site!
How do we change the media's,coaches,scouts,owners and
general publics minds that blacks are not the only ones
that can be athletically gifted.It is so ingrained in
their minds.Some people just refuse to believe that
whites can run and jump.We need more superstars to help
break down the barriers.Just like blacks needed a few
qb's to suceed,we need whites to first off be allowed to
play at running back & other positions.Then we need some
to become stars to open peoples eyes.This site is just
as important as the athletes out their fighting for
their jobs.As a team,we can help to make a change.Unity
and understanding.Keep getting the word out guys.
at the lower levels of sports,some of them do want it more.
Although,how many white kids are not allowed to play at
the running back,wide receiver or even cornerback going
all the way down to Pop Warner Football.Even alot of the
coaches and parents start the stereotype process that
early on.You can only earn a spot if given a equal
opportunity.We do need to support our own peole and that
is the major reason for this web site!
How do we change the media's,coaches,scouts,owners and
general publics minds that blacks are not the only ones
that can be athletically gifted.It is so ingrained in
their minds.Some people just refuse to believe that
whites can run and jump.We need more superstars to help
break down the barriers.Just like blacks needed a few
qb's to suceed,we need whites to first off be allowed to
play at running back & other positions.Then we need some
to become stars to open peoples eyes.This site is just
as important as the athletes out their fighting for
their jobs.As a team,we can help to make a change.Unity
and understanding.Keep getting the word out guys.
hollywoodnorth
Guru
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2005
- Messages
- 211
stereotyping is rampantEdited by: hollywoodnorth1
White_Savage
Mentor
Jews and Asians ARE naturally smarter, 115 and 106 average intelligences respectively*, though for some reason neither people has never evinced the ability to build a civilization quite as great as the Western by themselves, proving intelligence is indeed not the end-all be-all.
*However, the Jewish dominance of certain fields cannot be explained by hy average intelligence alone, given the vast numbers of whites in comparison to Jews, the odds are there are just as many white geniuses as Jewish, no social cohesion and the Jew's competiveness towards the Gentile has alot to do with it.
*However, the Jewish dominance of certain fields cannot be explained by hy average intelligence alone, given the vast numbers of whites in comparison to Jews, the odds are there are just as many white geniuses as Jewish, no social cohesion and the Jew's competiveness towards the Gentile has alot to do with it.
hollywoodnorth
Guru
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it's a matter of hard work, discipline, focus, and positive cultureEdited by: hollywoodnorth1
Asians and Jews do increasingly dominate the elite universities in the U.S., but I agree with the thrust of what you're saying. Another important factor about IQ testing is that there is a much wider spectrum of results among whites than any other group. Far more whites test in the highly intelligent and genius ranges than do Orientals, just as far more test in the less intelligent ranges. There are plenty of whites capable of being the best or among the best at any intellectual or physical endeavor. But whites are fighting the weight of an entrenched, powerfulsystem dedicated to destroying them individually and as a group over time, a system most of them still don't even recognize because they still see "white" faces in most seats of power and find it inconceivable that white "leaders"could be their enemies.
hollywoodnorth
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Hard work pays offEdited by: hollywoodnorth1
hollywoodnorth
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Hard work pays off.Edited by: hollywoodnorth1
I don't doubt that Jews, on average, have some advantage in verbal ability, and the same with Asians in regards to math/ tech ability. But given their very small populations in America there has to be more to it than that. I agree with both sides: genetics is important, and the cultural elements of working harder, and being more cohesive (favoritism, nepotism,) and possibly discrimination against whites, play a part as well.
Here's a little thought experiment: Let's say that there are about 195 million non-Jewish, non-Hispanic whites in the US (65% of 300 million.) And let's say that there are 9 million Jews (3% of 300 million.) Those probably aren't exactly right, but close enough.
Now let's say that only 10% of the whites have "high intelligence." That's 19.5 million. And 90% of Jews have high intelligence. That's 8.1 million. So even if the genetic/ cultural difference is that drastic (and obviously it isn't,) intelligent whites would still outnumber intelligent Jews by a wide margin. And what if it were more like 25% vs. 50%? Then it would be 49 million versus 4.5 million. There simply has to be a lot more intelligent whites than Jews (or Asians.)
I guess one could make the argument that the smaller number of intelligent Jews are highly concentrated in a few areas like media, university faculties, and law, while intelligent whites are spread throughout many more industries. But it doesn't really explain the student bodies in elite colleges like Harvard. Everybody wants to go to a great school, not just Jews and Asians (as opposed to, say, being a Hollywood producer or an engineer.) Even with a high percentage of Jews who are wealthy, they have to be outnumbered by wealthy whites who can afford to send their kids to Harvard. It just doesn't make any sense.
Here's a little thought experiment: Let's say that there are about 195 million non-Jewish, non-Hispanic whites in the US (65% of 300 million.) And let's say that there are 9 million Jews (3% of 300 million.) Those probably aren't exactly right, but close enough.
Now let's say that only 10% of the whites have "high intelligence." That's 19.5 million. And 90% of Jews have high intelligence. That's 8.1 million. So even if the genetic/ cultural difference is that drastic (and obviously it isn't,) intelligent whites would still outnumber intelligent Jews by a wide margin. And what if it were more like 25% vs. 50%? Then it would be 49 million versus 4.5 million. There simply has to be a lot more intelligent whites than Jews (or Asians.)
I guess one could make the argument that the smaller number of intelligent Jews are highly concentrated in a few areas like media, university faculties, and law, while intelligent whites are spread throughout many more industries. But it doesn't really explain the student bodies in elite colleges like Harvard. Everybody wants to go to a great school, not just Jews and Asians (as opposed to, say, being a Hollywood producer or an engineer.) Even with a high percentage of Jews who are wealthy, they have to be outnumbered by wealthy whites who can afford to send their kids to Harvard. It just doesn't make any sense.
hollywoodnorth
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like I said....hard work pays off
Edited by: hollywoodnorth1
White_Savage
Mentor
Numerous scientific tests of I.Q. (not S.A.T. scores) have demonstrated that there are indeed signifigant racial differences in average intelligence. Just as there as signifigant racial differences in other aspects of behavior, diseases/health problems, bone structure, and yes dammit, athletic ability. Color is not just skin deep, insofar as you can tell a person's race via their skeleton. No one has ever been able to tear down the testing methodology of say, _The Bell Curve_, what is debated in scientific circles is the reason behind it.
Everyday science proves more and more of our traits to be genetic. Identical twins, seperated at birth, raised in differing enviroments, will have the same personalities and mental problems, them same occupation/lifestyle, even the same tastes in religion, music, politics, and vegetables they dislike!
I don't know what causes this attachment to the increasingly debunked "blank slate" theory of humanity. Personally, the idea that I am a just a Skinnerian product of external conditioning with no inner nature of my own, does not appeal. And what's REALLY more insulting to XYZ group-That they don't on average do as well in certain areas because others have more ability, or that they don't do well just because they're too damn lazy?
Everyday science proves more and more of our traits to be genetic. Identical twins, seperated at birth, raised in differing enviroments, will have the same personalities and mental problems, them same occupation/lifestyle, even the same tastes in religion, music, politics, and vegetables they dislike!
I don't know what causes this attachment to the increasingly debunked "blank slate" theory of humanity. Personally, the idea that I am a just a Skinnerian product of external conditioning with no inner nature of my own, does not appeal. And what's REALLY more insulting to XYZ group-That they don't on average do as well in certain areas because others have more ability, or that they don't do well just because they're too damn lazy?
White_Savage
Mentor
A words on the Jews and Israel's I.Q. testing.
The Jews who average 115 are the Jews of the European diaspora. Sephardics average rather lower, as do Arabs, which throws off the test for Israel as a whole. It is unsurprising that India, a meeting point for the Caucasian and Asian, should have such high intelligence scores. India has long produced high intellect...remember our numbering system and mathematics is largely a product of Indian scholars.
The Jews who average 115 are the Jews of the European diaspora. Sephardics average rather lower, as do Arabs, which throws off the test for Israel as a whole. It is unsurprising that India, a meeting point for the Caucasian and Asian, should have such high intelligence scores. India has long produced high intellect...remember our numbering system and mathematics is largely a product of Indian scholars.
hollywoodnorth
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hard work pays offEdited by: hollywoodnorth1
White_Savage
Mentor
You must not be paying attention to the same genetic science I am. Yes, most so-called scienctists are desperately afraid to touch anything "racial" with a ten foot pole, but the conclusion their research is edging us towards remains the same, that similar genetics tends to produce similar people.
A growing percentage of Israelis are Sephardic, and racial differences with their Askenazi cousins is a problem in Israel. To say nothing of the Arabs I mentioned.
I don't take the opposite extreme from you, mind you. I'm sure training, social, physical, can make quite alot of difference in people. But I feel like the basic personality traits and intelligence you have to work with are hard-wired.
The crux of the research about twins is their seperation at birth. You must have missed that part. They never had the oppurtunity to enjoy identical enviroments where they might both learn to vote democrat or listen to jazz. You come up with a cute example about soccer vrs. football...a paper tiger in fact, since no one slices it quite that thin. There could very well be a genetic inclination towards rugged athletic activities, however.
Changing as you age is perfectly natural mentally as well as physically...the point is whether or not genetically similar people will grow in similar ways throughout their lives, which seems to be the case.
A growing percentage of Israelis are Sephardic, and racial differences with their Askenazi cousins is a problem in Israel. To say nothing of the Arabs I mentioned.
I don't take the opposite extreme from you, mind you. I'm sure training, social, physical, can make quite alot of difference in people. But I feel like the basic personality traits and intelligence you have to work with are hard-wired.
The crux of the research about twins is their seperation at birth. You must have missed that part. They never had the oppurtunity to enjoy identical enviroments where they might both learn to vote democrat or listen to jazz. You come up with a cute example about soccer vrs. football...a paper tiger in fact, since no one slices it quite that thin. There could very well be a genetic inclination towards rugged athletic activities, however.
Changing as you age is perfectly natural mentally as well as physically...the point is whether or not genetically similar people will grow in similar ways throughout their lives, which seems to be the case.
White_Savage
Mentor
You might also be interested in "Professor Shockley's Experiment", as an example of personality traits and I.Q. abjectly failing to be malleable but quite closely following racial predictions.
hollywoodnorth1 said:
This is the exact opposite of what I'm reading in the news. Genetic differences are all the rage in medicine with special medicines for various races. People may be reluctent to talk about it and there is a lot of fear of being labeled a racist but scientists are doing it anyway.
White_Savage
Mentor
And you know, deep down I don't really like race. I wish it were true that we're basically all the same inside our flesh shells. I wish Thomas Sowell was the rule rather than the exception. I wish the ideal of harmony and community amongst all races was possible and beneficial, instead of hugely destructive wherever attempted. And if there has to be race, I wish mine was on top in all aspects, especially physical, of course
Needless to say, this is not the case, there is no "master race", but I'll be damned if we should put up with being propagandized into believing we're the bottom of the heap in EVERY aspect.
hollywoodnorth
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dont think there are any scientific experts in the roomEdited by: hollywoodnorth1
Africans in America = poor living conditions and lifestyles.
Africans in Europe = poor living conditions and lifestyles.
Africans in Asia = poor living conditions and lifestyles.
Africans in Africa = poor living conditions and lifestyles.
Coincidence? I think NOT!
Africans in Europe = poor living conditions and lifestyles.
Africans in Asia = poor living conditions and lifestyles.
Africans in Africa = poor living conditions and lifestyles.
Coincidence? I think NOT!
White_Savage
Mentor
jaxvid: Right, that is one example of racial factor in the negative, which some will quickly dismiss as "hatred", "bigotry", etc.
But I notice that when I express my genuine admiration for the many positive traits I consider admirable in some non-whites, say Asians, I am still called a hateful bigot white supremacist, etc! To me it appears that my opposition are the ones operating without benefit of reason and with an emotional bias.
But I notice that when I express my genuine admiration for the many positive traits I consider admirable in some non-whites, say Asians, I am still called a hateful bigot white supremacist, etc! To me it appears that my opposition are the ones operating without benefit of reason and with an emotional bias.