Favorite black fighter

[jcolec02]

I was thinking the other day about guys like Muhammed Ali and how much I couldnt stand him...Then i remembered how much I loved Joe Frazier, not only because he shut Ali up by breaking his jaw

but also because of how humble and kind he seemed to be. He was ferocious in the ring but he never acted out or did anything like what Ali did and because of this he was called an uncle tom...which is really sad. I was also thinking about George Foreman, (who is my favorite black fighter of all time) and how vicious and scary he was in the ring, not to mention powerful, but once he was out of the ring (especially when he retired and sold grills...lol) he really seemed to be a kind hearted fellow...there are other fighters that come to mind like Floyd Patterson, Joe Louis, and Ezzard Charles, that seemed to be humble and kind, and seemed to not have anything against whites or white fighters...so i was thinking...out of all the black heavyweights...who would be peoples favorite??? keep in mind there performance inside the ring, and how they acted outside the ring...and how they felt about whites and white fighters...Thanks

P.S. George Foreman gets my vote

Also...Joe Frazier was quoted as saying (Marciano and Joe Louis were the greatest of all time....they would have beaten Ali....as for Ali...I beat him so that puts him somewere below me on the all time greats list"

 

[White Shogun]

George Foreman.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Joe Louis-The Brown Bomber

 

[white lightning]

I'll go with George Foreman when he was older.I remember him beating M.Moorer for the championship.He was also very classy when Tommy Morrison won the belt off him and had nothing but good things to say about Tommy.

 

[moose]

I have been a fight fan for a long time and I have never had a favorite black fighter, never

 

[Gary]

Neither have I!! ESPN,ABC,CBS,NBC,ETC,ETC talk 24 hours a day about blacks in sports. I like to hear about Whites in sports!!! If there had been no Iron Curtain there is a good chance-Clay,Foreman,Frazier,Patterson would never have been "Champion" because the Eastern Europeans most likely would have ruled boxing during the 50's,60's,70's,80's,90's,ETC!!!!

 

[white is right]

Patterson definately wouldn't have been champion(eventhough I regard him as a great fighter), Clay/young Ali would still have been champion. Post comeback Ali would have lost to somone from the eastern bloc, Frazier might have gotten flattened earlier and Foreman would have been champion if he was matched right ie against guys that attacked him. If you boxed prime or post prime Foreman you beat him. Only a huge strong heavy like a Vitali would have had a shot of out muscling Foreman.....

 

[Hockaday]

My favorite would have to be a fellow named Lobster Thermodor. No kidding. He fought a few years back, as a career opponent/designated loser. He looked the part, all wiry muscle, but seemed unable to tell his hands and feet what to do at the same time. He would really flail. though, before his inevitable head on crash with the canvas. Entertaining stumblebums like Lobster are a vital part of the boxing food chain. The better fighters can't build a good record without them.

 

[Spooge]

Got to be Emanuel Augustus! This guy is a bizarre freak in the ring. He does things like the " drunken master" with hands behind his back, double punches (just ask "sucra" Ray Oliveras), and is an outright punching machine. Always entertaining tow watch. His defense is unreal.

 

[Gary]

Russia alone lost over 20 million people in WW2-yet by the early 1950's they were winning many medals in the Olympic's. How many big strong Russian men died during the war without fathering a child? Vitali is big and strong-but how many other Vitali's did we miss? Vitali beats Foreman on the best night George ever had, Wlad to tall and skilled for Patterson or Frazier.
The point is for 65 years[1930-1995]we missed out on how many great White fighters from Eastern Europe who never got a chance?

 

[white lightning]

Excellent points Gary.I totally agree.Ali was beatable.So was Foreman and Frazier.The media has made these guys even bigger than Marciano which is a joke.He is the only one that never lost.Ali was saved in tbe one fight in England.Ali got knocked down right towards the end of round one.A.Dundee cut his glove on purpose in the corner so they would have to stop the fight for 10-15 minutes to go find some more gloves.This gave Ali time to recover and he went on to win the fight.Ali was protected many times.He was a good fighter but he was not the greatest of all time.The Russians are as tough as they come.They could have been champions even back then but due to the war and the Soviet Union,they were not allowed to even try.I'm so glad they are here to stay now.

 

[moose]

all those great white fighters suffered the worst discrimination of all, they were banned from turning pro,while blacks and browns were allowed to turn pro.

 

[white is right]

Russia alone lost over 20 million people in WW2-yet by the early 1950's they were winning many medals in the Olympic's. How many big strong Russian men died during the war without fathering a child? Vitali is big and strong-but how many other Vitali's did we miss? Vitali beats Foreman on the best night George ever had, Wlad to tall and skilled for Patterson or Frazier.
The point is for 65 years[1930-1995]we missed out on how many great White fighters from Eastern Europe who never got a chance?

Now that Soviet Union is split you can really see the depth of the old republics at the worlds and the olympics. Since the late 90's these old republics have been dominating the super heavy class in boxing. After a few years of the prospects maturing the pro ranks are being changed like a tsunami hitting the shores. This trend will only continue as 90 percent of the top prospects are from these countries. I remember reading about the tournaments between the top prospects to make the old Soviet squad were fierce, now you are seeing why........

 

[KG2422]

Foreman was a real SOB in his younger days ,and I suspect he still is when the cameras aren't on. I saw him cuss out an old man. HBO quickly cut away.

 

[Iron]

I agree.Foreman's personality is fake,even Larry Holmes can see it.When Foreman launched his comeback trail in the late eighties he handpicked nothing but White fighters.Even in the mid 90's after winning the title he handpicked his first defence against German Axel Shultz.He recieved a gift decision and promptly relinquished the belt when faced with a Black mandatory.He know's his skills have declined with age,with serious risk to his health if he steps in the ring with the wrong opponent so the fact he only chooses White fighters to share the ring with tells you something.Edited by: Iron

 

[white is right]

They called Foreman's comeback opponents dwarfs. All of them were undersized cruiserweights without power, most were white. He chose Shulz because he couldn't punch and he would get international press. Also Shulz would engage Foreman. As for the Foreman fakeness, it's very true a bunch of reporters have seen Foreman semi lose it, and then realize it and go back into his pitchman smile. I would hate to be his kid who drank the last cola in the fridge...

 

[White Shogun]

He know's his skills have declined with age,with serious risk to his health if he steps in the ring with the wrong opponent so the fact he only chooses White fighters to share the ring with tells you something.

Not sure what it tells me, exactly, considering the following:

Shannon Briggs, Michael Moorer, Evander Holyfield, Everett Martin, Bert Cooper, and Dwight Muhammad Qawi are black boxers whose names I recognized immediately upon perusing Foreman's record at boxrec.com. Briggs was supposed to be the next big thing at heavyweight when he fought Foreman. Moorer of course was the heavyweight champion of the world, who was KO'd by Foreman in their fight. Holyfield gave everyone a fight during his heyday, no matter how big or mean they came, and Cooper and Qawi were not exactly cans, either.

Of the white men he faced, Axel Schulz was not a bum, either, although he did not have a great KO percentage. But what about Tommy Morrison? The Duke could certainly KO people, and beat Foreman by decision when they faced each other.

Foreman definitely fought his share of tomato cans, before and after his comeback, but in that respect he doesn't seem to be any different than any other modern era fighter.

I have not heard any of the stories about him that you and others have mentioned. Nor have I heard that he has sexually assaulted anyone, struck a police officer, engaged in a bar fight, fathered multiple children by different women, filed bankruptcy, sold drugs or used drugs, nor any of many other myriad criminal and ethical violations that so many of his brothers engage in. So, I'm not saying Foreman is a saint, he truly could be a real jerk off-camera, I just haven't heard about it; and he fought enough black fighters to dispute the argument that he chose only white tomato cans during his comeback.

But I'm also wondering what you think it means if a black fighter chooses to fight only white fighters? Does it mean he'll have an easier go of it on the comeback trail, or what? I don't see James Toney breaking down the door to fight Wlad or Lyakhovich!

 

[KG2422]

Foreman was a mugger and a bully in his youth. He was shipped off to job corps and credits that with turning his life around. He was almost kicked out of job corps before he took up boxing.

http://www.speak.com/page.cfm?go2=profile&ID=5531

 

[White Shogun]

Foreman was a mugger and a bully in his youth. He was shipped off to job corps and credits that with turning his life around. He was almost kicked out of job corps before he took up boxing.

http://www.speak.com/page.cfm?go2=profile&ID=5531

Left out the part about walking around the ring waving an American flag at the 1973 Olympics, instead of raising his fist in 'black power,' and the part about running a youth center with his own money.

I don't know Foreman personally, so I still can't say what he is like outside the ring. But if that cite is the worst thing one can say about him, its evident that although he may not be a Vitali Klitschko, he isn't Mike Tyson, either. Edited by: White Shogun

 

[KG2422]

I agree that he is no Mike Tyson and he probably does have some redeeming qualities. Great for him as far as the youth center goes, but I'm sure that youth center is for Black youths mostly. He was probably my favorite Black fighter also before I saw him curse at that white haired older man. I believe in treating elders with more respect than that. Also, on the sportscentury biography, he was described as an "evil, evil, man" when he was a teen and young adult. I don't think he's exercised all of those demons. All of those smiles seem a little phony. He's probably not the worst example of a Black fighter, but it would pretty sad if we couldn't find someone more likeable than him among all of the Black fighters. Of course you can like him if you want. I just don't care for him very much.

 

[Iron]

SHOGUN Of course Foreman faced the Black fighters you mentioned as from 90-95 the only consistant top twenty white fighter was Morrison and he fought Morrison for the vacant WBO title for a big payday.Foreman never selected him.For his comeback to amount to anything,to achieve top ten status,garner big payday's,achieve maximum exposure and win a belt he would obviously have to face the likes of Holyfield etc.He was paid ten million dollars for the Holy fight back 91 which was a huge amount at that time.He's hardly going to turn that down is he.But the fact remains,for the most part he rouitenly hand picked White fighters.

You can make the point that every young prospect and come back fighter steps in the ring with his fare share of tomatoe cans,and it wasnt any different for Foreman,but even after he broke into the top ten after facing Holyfield and losing a respectable decision,the majority of his opponents thereafter were White.How do you explain that in a division that was almost 100% Black at that time?The media even picked up on this fact.I remember reading something sarcastically written by a boxing pundit along the lines'i wonder who Foreman's next white opponent will be'It became something of a joke.

You ask what it means if a Foreman or any Black fighter chooses only Whites to face.Well i'll explain to you.K.O magazine back in 92 run the headline 'Can Tommy Morrison punch out the theory white men can't fight'This was the consensus before the Euro invasion and Foreman seemed to adhere to that.I suspect he viewed White fighters as a soft touch.I can maybe understand as it was Black fighters,some of them unexpected like Alex Stewart who gave him his toughest tests,and at the end of the day he has to look after no.1,but it was still annoying none the less.

As for Foreman the man.I would say he's worse than the stereo type you mentioned of the typical troube prone Black athlete who gets in trouble a little too much.Foreman was a real bully from the time he first entered school right up to the time he spent in detention.He enjoyed intimidating and beating up people.Even from prospect to the time he defeated Frazier,Foreman enjoyed intimidating and making reporters feel small.He was from the Sonny Liston school in that respect.Watch the film/documentary When we were kings.Foreman's real persona is their for all too see and a leopard never changes its spots as Foreman as let slip that same persona and bully that resides deep down on a number of occasions.Of course he puts on an affable front for cooperate purposes as that along with his over exposure that Black entertainers and sports stars like Vick Woods and Jordan enjoy over their White equivalents as as probably made him close to a billion dollars with the grill and other endorsements.Edited by: Iron

 

[white is right]

I agree that he is no Mike Tyson and he probably does have some redeeming qualities. Great for him as far as the youth center goes, but I'm sure that youth center is for Black youths mostly. He was probably my favorite Black fighter also before I saw him curse at that white haired older man. I believe in treating elders with more respect than that. Also, on the sportscentury biography, he was described as an "evil, evil, man" when he was a teen and young adult. I don't think he's exercised all of those demons. All of those smiles seem a little phony. He's probably not the worst example of a Black fighter, but it would pretty sad if we couldn't find someone more likeable than him among all of the Black fighters. Of course you can like him if you want. I just don't care for him very much.

Actually the area that the centre was in has changed the area is mostly ethnic Mexican now. When I saw a piece on him before one of his HBO fights all of the young kids were either white or latino, I didn't see one black kid.....

 

[Hockaday]

I must confess that Lobster Thermidor is not really my favorite black fighter. I needed some time to think about it, since there have been so many great black fighters. I mean, let's face it, they got nothing to prove. Credit where due, even if I am white and root for white fighters.

Jersey Joe Walcott. Boxer/puncher with slick, distinct style. His first smart move was ditching his original name, Arnold Cream. Robbed in first try against Joe Louis, finally won the crown with one punch against Ezzard Charles, a left hook as sweet as the one that Robinson got Fulmer with. Oldest fighter to win the heavyweight championship. Old school, no nonsense guy, just climbed through the ropes and went to work. Great effort against the Rock till the thirteenth when he helped prove how hard Marciano could punch.

Jersey Joe. Cool name. Cool style. Memorable career.

 

[jcolec02]

as far as that stuff about foreman being evil and mean and all that when he was young....HE WAS A F*cking boxer...he used all the agression he had as a child and beat the hell out of people...and when he got older he calmed down... there are alot of people like that...besides thats one of my favorite things about him is when he was younger he had that crazy look in his eyes...also...he has had nothing but good things to say about the Klitschko Brothers especially Vitali...

 

[White_Savage]

Don't know Foreman personally, so how can I say?

I liked Joe Frazier's fighting style alot, and the fact he beat Ali. Twice, IMO, giving us a good idea of what the Rock would have done to the "Greatest". He may have hated all White men for all I know, but he didn't talk on and on about it, or any other damn thing for that matter. And that I like.