"Blacks are fading from baseball"

[Don Wassall]

I remember in the late 70's very few Whites played the outfield and the few that did were basically journeymen or fading veterans. Aside from Richie Zisk and Fred Lynn I can't recall an other star outfielder from that time period in the AL, there were some star middle infielders like Patek and Belanger. The NL because of the no dh rule forced teams to play less agile guys who could hit for power but were defensively poor like Luzinski and Kingman.

Ps Guys like Palmeiro and Gonzo are considered White in Cuba, it's only America where ethnic pandering for minority status forces people like this to associate themselves with an "oppressed" minority group.

That's true, for a while there outfielders became overwhelmingly black. Blacks had a short glory period in baseball lasting from the 1960s through the '70s but mostly the '60s. Ever since then it's been wailing and whining by the usual suspects that there's not enough of them. Clearly blacks "just aren't interested" in earning $20 million a year for 15 years or MLB would look just like the NFL and NBA. There's no other possible explanation. [sarcasm]

 

[PHillisFan]

Hopefully the numbers keep fading.

 

[Carolina Speed]

I remember in the late 70's very few Whites played the outfield and the few that did were basically journeymen or fading veterans. Aside from Richie Zisk and Fred Lynn I can't recall an other star outfielder from that time period in the AL, there were some star middle infielders like Patek and Belanger. The NL because of the no dh rule forced teams to play less agile guys who could hit for power but were defensively poor like Luzinski and Kingman.

Ps Guys like Palmeiro and Gonzo are considered White in Cuba, it's only America where ethnic pandering for minority status forces people like this to associate themselves with an "oppressed" minority group.

I probably remember Dwight Evans best as a star white outfielder although his career lasted into the late 80's and early 90's he had 3 golden glove years in the 70's. Evans had one of the strongest arms I've ever seen, a cannon. Other pretty good white outfielders of the 70's were, Jeff Burroughs, Rick Monday, and Bobby Mercer. Burroughs was the 1974 AL MVP.
Tony Conigliaro would have been the best of them all, however a horrifying eye injury due to being hit by a pitch in the eye derailed his career.
.... but yes, not too many white stars in the outfield in the 1970's
BTW, Conigliaro had 104 HR's by his year or age 22 season. The year he was injured in August. He would have had a lot more! More than Mike Trout at age 22, (98)!

 

[Ambrose]

That's true, for a while there outfielders became overwhelmingly black. Blacks had a short glory period in baseball lasting from the 1960s through the '70s but mostly the '60s. Ever since then it's been wailing and whining by the usual suspects that there's not enough of them. Clearly blacks "just aren't interested" in earning $20 million a year for 15 years or MLB would look just like the NFL and NBA. There's no other possible explanation.

There's another explanation. Blacks will not discipline themselves and organize themselves to create their own baseball leagues. Things have been so quiet and nice since they left, can't say anyone has missed them .

 

[Flint]

I remember in the late 70's very few Whites played the outfield and the few that did were basically journeymen or fading veterans. Aside from Richie Zisk and Fred Lynn I can't recall an other star outfielder from that time period in the AL, there were some star middle infielders like Patek and Belanger. The NL because of the no dh rule forced teams to play less agile guys who could hit for power but were defensively poor like Luzinski and Kingman..

Dale Murphy, Kirk Gibson, Joe Rudi, Gorman Thomas, Rick Monday, Dwight Evans, Gary Roenicke, Brian Downing, Steve Kemp, Lou Pinella, Jeff Burroughs, Bobby Murcer, there were some good white outfielders from that era. Also Luzinski was not a bad fielder. In spite of the preponderance of black outfielders other positions such as 3rd base and catcher were almost completely White. Name 10 black 3rd baseman and catchers from that era?

 

[Don Wassall]

Dale Murphy, Kirk Gibson, Joe Rudi, Gorman Thomas, Rick Monday, Dwight Evans, Gary Roenicke, Brian Downing, Steve Kemp, Lou Pinella, Jeff Burroughs, Bobby Murcer, there were some good white outfielders from that era. Also Luzinski was not a bad fielder. In spite of the preponderance of black outfielders other positions such as 3rd base and catcher were almost completely White. Name 10 black 3rd baseman and catchers from that era?

White is Right's statement that there were very few star White outfielders in the AL (and NL too) in the late '70s is accurate. The late '70s would be 1977, 1978 and 1979. Of the ones you listed, Murphy and Gibson were stars, but Murphy was a catcher in the '70s, and Gibson's career didn't get going until 1980. Dwight Evans could be considered a star, especially considering his defensive play, and possibly Burroughs and Luzinski if you stretch the definition of "star," but the rest either had faded by the late '70s (Rudi, Monday, Mercer), or never were star caliber at any point in their careers. Jack Clark was a minor star who made a couple All-Star teams in the late '70s early in his career. MLB outfields weren't coal black in that era, but there was a noticeable lack of palefaces roaming that area of stadiums.

 

[white is right]

Dale Murphy, Kirk Gibson, Joe Rudi, Gorman Thomas, Rick Monday, Dwight Evans, Gary Roenicke, Brian Downing, Steve Kemp, Lou Pinella, Jeff Burroughs, Bobby Murcer, there were some good white outfielders from that era. Also Luzinski was not a bad fielder. In spite of the preponderance of black outfielders other positions such as 3rd base and catcher were almost completely White. Name 10 black 3rd baseman and catchers from that era?

Some of these guys were more early 80's stars imo, but Jeff Burroughs was one in the NL, Pinella and Murcer were more of the fading veteran types. You are right on the third basemen and catchers as only Bill Madlock was a star and he had no arm but could hit and I don't recall anything beyond a journeyman at catcher.

Ps I seem to recall the Bull butchering a ball in the playoffs against the Dodgers but maybe my memory is hazy on that. Also Dwight Evans had some of his better seasons very late in career which was in the late 80's. He has also been screwed by not being on the ballot for a full 15 year eligibility. He was one of the great all around players of his era. The letting in of Jim Rice opened a can of worms when it comes to borderline guys who the writers aren't even considering from the pre steroid era.

 

[Carolina Speed]

Some of these guys were more early 80's stars imo, but Jeff Burroughs was one in the NL, Pinella and Murcer were more of the fading veteran types. You are right on the third basemen and catchers as only Bill Madlock was a star and he had no arm but could hit and I don't recall anything beyond a journeyman at catcher.

Ps I seem to recall the Bull butchering a ball in the playoffs against the Dodgers but maybe my memory is hazy on that. Also Dwight Evans had some of his better seasons very late in career which was in the late 80's. He has also been screwed by not being on the ballot for a full 15 year eligibility. He was one of the great all around players of his era. The letting in of Jim Rice opened a can of worms when it comes to borderline guys who the writers aren't even considering from the pre steroid era.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, Burroughs was the AL MVP in 1974 and played in the AL through 1976, did a few years in the NL and then returned to the AL. Point is taken, not too many stars. As also mentioned Conigliaro would have been a huge star if not for his injury.

 

[AdamGrey]

Which MLB teams are the whitest? I'm not too tied into one team or the other and I'd like to know who would be good teams to pull for. I know a fair amount about the white superstars like Mike Trout, but are there any teams y'all would recommend? Similarly, are there any teams you'd say to avoid like the plague due to their roster and/or actions by their front offices? Thanks.

 

[white is right]

As I mentioned in my earlier post, Burroughs was the AL MVP in 1974 and played in the AL through 1976, did a few years in the NL and then returned to the AL. Point is taken, not too many stars. As also mentioned Conigliaro would have been a huge star if not for his injury.

I remember him more as a Brave and being past his peak as I didn't regularly watch baseball until 77'. I forgot he was a Ranger and had that monster season to win the MVP.

 

[Leonardfan]

Which MLB teams are the whitest? I'm not too tied into one team or the other and I'd like to know who would be good teams to pull for. I know a fair amount about the white superstars like Mike Trout, but are there any teams y'all would recommend? Similarly, are there any teams you'd say to avoid like the plague due to their roster and/or actions by their front offices? Thanks.

In a few weeks ill start up the 2017 baseball thread. Right now I don't know much of anything but as I do my fantasy baseball research I compile a list of white players that should be in the majors this year.

 

[Shadowlight]

A couple of more names who played CF from the late 70's plus early 80's. The Met's Lee Mazzilli and Rick Manning from Cleveland. I recognize the name Manning but do not remember him. Fred Lynn who was mentioned earlier had Joe DiMaggio qualities. He went to USC and was a wide receiver and then went on to win both ROY and MVP in that famous season of 1975. His career outline got hazy at times and he ended up leaving Boston to play for the Angels. He had several stellar seasons and won a handful of Gold Gloves. But I can tell you living in New England his early years in Boston were beyond belief. He DID NOT run and catch balls in CF. He glided and floated and was so natural and elegant you thought you were at the ballet. And he made awe inspiring diving leaping catches. After his rookie year in 1975 people were talking about him as the next Joe DiMaggio. The media at that time was so awestruck by his talent they were almost in shock. He slipped a bit at the plate in 1976 but had a huge year in 1979 and went on to have a few more terrific seasons and an excellent career but injuries took their toll. In retrospect I still can't believe that iconic players like Lynn along with Carlton Fisk didn't play their whole careers with the Red Sox. One aside about Fisk. When Fisk was behind the plate with the White Sox, opponent Deion Sanders grounded out and didn't bother to run to first. Old school Fisk laid into him and petulant Sanders told him he isn't his you know what. They almost came to blows. Fisk knew how you were supposed to play the game and wasn't about to let this punk strut around like a me first prick.

 

[Carolina Speed]

A couple of more names who played CF from the late 70's plus early 80's. The Met's Lee Mazzilli and Rick Manning from Cleveland. I recognize the name Manning but do not remember him. Fred Lynn who was mentioned earlier had Joe DiMaggio qualities. He went to USC and was a wide receiver and then went on to win both ROY and MVP in that famous season of 1977. His career outline got hazy at times and he ended up leaving Boston to play for the Angels. He had several stellar seasons and won a handful of Gold Gloves. But I can tell you living in New England his early years in Boston were beyond belief. He DID NOT run and catch balls in CF. He glided and floated and was so natural and elegant you thought you were at the ballet. And he made awe inspiring diving leaping catches. After his rookie year in 1977 people were talking about him as the next Joe DiMaggio. The media at that time was so awestruck by his talent they were almost in shock. He slipped a bit at the plate in 1978 but had a huge year in 1979 and went on to have a few more terrific seasons and an excellent career but injuries took their toll. In retrospect I still can't believe that iconic players like Lynn along with Carlton Fisk didn't play their whole careers with the Red Sox. One aside about Fisk. When Fisk was behind the plate with the White Sox, opponent Deion Sanders grounded out and didn't bother to run to first. Old school Fisk laid into him and petulant Sanders told him he isn't his you know what. They almost came to blows. Fisk knew how you were supposed to play the game and wasn't about to let this punk strut around like a me first prick.

Right Shadowlight and Dwight Evans seems to always be the forgotten Red Sock. He did play his entire career, (with the last being the exception) in Boston. He ended up having the better overall career than Lynn. He had many solid years and was on track for a monster year in the strike shortened 1981 season. He led the league that year in HR's, OPS, and total bases. He also won 8 gold glove awards.

 

[Shadowlight]

Evans was initially overshadowed by Lynn and then of course Jim Rice and lacked their excitement. He was not the natural hitter that those two were but he became a real solid hitter during the course of a surprisingly long career. He was the afterthought to Lynn, Fisk and Rice. Evans was the undisputed premiere defensive RF for years and threw absolute peas from the OF.

 

[Don Wassall]

A couple of more names who played CF from the late 70's plus early 80's. The Met's Lee Mazzilli and Rick Manning from Cleveland. I recognize the name Manning but do not remember him. Fred Lynn who was mentioned earlier had Joe DiMaggio qualities. He went to USC and was a wide receiver and then went on to win both ROY and MVP in that famous season of 1975. His career outline got hazy at times and he ended up leaving Boston to play for the Angels. He had several stellar seasons and won a handful of Gold Gloves. But I can tell you living in New England his early years in Boston were beyond belief. He DID NOT run and catch balls in CF. He glided and floated and was so natural and elegant you thought you were at the ballet. And he made awe inspiring diving leaping catches. After his rookie year in 1975 people were talking about him as the next Joe DiMaggio. The media at that time was so awestruck by his talent they were almost in shock. He slipped a bit at the plate in 1976 but had a huge year in 1979 and went on to have a few more terrific seasons and an excellent career but injuries took their toll. In retrospect I still can't believe that iconic players like Lynn along with Carlton Fisk didn't play their whole careers with the Red Sox. One aside about Fisk. When Fisk was behind the plate with the White Sox, opponent Deion Sanders grounded out and didn't bother to run to first. Old school Fisk laid into him and petulant Sanders told him he isn't his you know what. They almost came to blows. Fisk knew how you were supposed to play the game and wasn't about to let this punk strut around like a me first prick.

Lynn had his career year in '79, but otherwise never again was as good offensively as he was during his memorable rookie year in '75. The Red Sox won the pennant in his rookie year and then faced off against the Big Red Machine in one of the best World Series ever, highlighted by Fisk's game winning homerun in Game 6.

I was checking YouTube for a video of Fisk's confrontation with Sanders, but couldn't find anything. Sanders also infamously dumped multiple buckets of ice water on Tim McCarver following a game after McCarver dared to criticize him. All I could find of that was this short clip from BSPN, which of courses minimizes Sanders' behavior. I remember when it happened, I believe it was after a playoff game, and wanted so bad for McCarver to punch the insufferable Sanders, but he instead seethed, "You're a real man. Deion."

 

[Shadowlight]

Yep I went back and edited my post a few minutes after I posted but yes 1975 was the year Lynn won the MVP. For some reason I temporarily spaced out and kept thinking of 1977 but that was the one game playoff year with the Yankees. The Fisk battle with Sanders is written about in Fisk's biography which I think was released a few years ago. Of course the 70's Reds were famous. I know people talk endlessly about Pete Rose but the best player on that team and the best catcher in the history of baseball in my mind even though I hated him and the Reds was Johnny Bench. And the Reds would have won an earlier World Series perhaps if it wasn't for the spectacular defense of Brooks Robinson, the greatest defensive Third Basemen of all time.

 

[Shadowlight]

Don the incident between Fisk and Sanders took place in 1990 and is described beautifully in the Fisk biography called "Pudge" written by Doug Wilson. Sanders was a rookie for the Yankees plugged into the lineup not because he earned it but because he was an undeserving showpiece. I said it was a ground ball but it was a pop up. The entire baseball world was on Fisk's side the next day because he was right. Fisk was not about to take any crap from that punk. Fisk was a true New Englander and man those dudes are tough.

 

[Don Wassall]

Oh yeah, I always had ultimate respect for Fisk. The man played 23 seasons as a catcher in the bigs, the toughest position of them all by far when it comes to wear and tear, until the age of 45. That alone is remarkable, but he was also one of the best hitting catchers ever and also great at playing his position. Right up there after Bench (the best catcher ever) and in the discussion with Berra, Cochrane and Dickey.

 

[Carolina Speed]

Which MLB teams are the whitest? I'm not too tied into one team or the other and I'd like to know who would be good teams to pull for. I know a fair amount about the white superstars like Mike Trout, but are there any teams y'all would recommend? Similarly, are there any teams you'd say to avoid like the plague due to their roster and/or actions by their front offices? Thanks.

From last season some of the whiter teams were, Washington, San Francisco, and LA Dodgers. I'm sure there are some others. Among the blackest teams were the Texas Rangers and Boston Red Sox, however with trades going on this can change.

 

[Deceptive Speed]

The first thing I thought when reading the title to this tread was "good" hope it keeps on declining. However, African-American numbers may be down the same can't be said for black Carribean and South American blacks.

 

[Deceptive Speed]

Baseball is our sport "white" lets keep it that way. Therefore, I don't mind some of our star Football players choosing to go the MLB route rather than NFL.

 

[rajuncajun]

Baseball is our sport "white" lets keep it that way. Therefore, I don't mind some of our star Football players choosing to go the MLB route rather than NFL.

 

[rajuncajun]

Obviously none of you has been watching the USA team in the World Baseball Classic. Our staff is heavily African. Proof that the best Pitchers in the US are black. I say this in pure jest. There is no excuse for our entire team to be 99% white. Over the last 15-20 years baseball in the US has benefited from great white athletes choosing baseball as the sport of choice as it is a sport that FACTS make racism directed at whites less likely given that the sport is totally dependent on quanatative FACTS not pencil neck geek sports writers hyping black superiority.

 

[La France Blanche]

Exactly. You don't see terms like "upside", "hip wiggle", and "interesting feet" used in baseball. Not many room brightening smiles either.

 

[Ambrose]

Jackie Robinson day today. All of the clubs have to honor it and all of the players have to wear 42 for a day. MLB keeps this going on and on and on while the player that made baseball the most popular sport in America once, Babe Ruth, is never honored, never even talked about anymore, and nearly forgotten.