2013 NFL Combine

[Leonardfan]

Jarvis Jones's combine and pro day numbers provide us with a nice example of what is wrong with the NFL. Maybe even a DWF can understand it.

1) Jones had a very productive college career, playing against really good competition.

2) His combine and pro day numbers are not particularly good.

Could this possibly mean that the combine isn't exactly a great way to evaluate players? Could it be that scouts should actually watch players actually play football? Nah, the scouts need the combine so they can see the players in their underwear.

3) Many white players are very productive in college, but still have to prove themselves at the combine. When they do so, it doesn't really help (Swope). While Jones might have hurt his draft status a bit, he's still going to be a 1st rounder (and he probably should be). Swope's career numbers and measurables should make him a 1st rounder, but it won't happen.

4) Conclusion: Combine measurables mostly do not help white players, they can usually only hold their place or fall. Blacks can help their draft position at the combine, or hurt it, but only minimally.

The combine is a joke. I think it was instituted to worship black players, and the inconvenient white players that do well have the side effect of causing the DWF world to do all sorts of verbal gymnastics to explain them away. I guess the one good purpose it does serve is to make the caste system all the more obvious.

You hit the nail on the head. The Combine is a farce - it has been manipulated by the media to create further ingrain the caste system into football. The only number that people pay attention to and is given the most exposure at the combine is the 40 - that is for every position. Every other drill is given minimal coverage.

When an afflete performs poorly they still find ways to lie and make up excuses and prop the afflete up as a high round pick with upside. When a white athlete performs very well it is treated as an outlier and the media tries to find ways to expose the player (mostly at the caste positions) and find other "weaknesses". If a white player performs avg (ie runs a slower than expected 40) at the combine (Chase Thomas for example) he is pretty much written off. No one ever says go back and look at the tape and the players production if that player is white.

After paying close attention to the draft for a decade I think my observations are pretty on point.

 

[dwid]

I am still trying to find where these other 2 concussions occurred for Ryan Swope. The one against OSU didn't even look bad, the coaches talked to him, and then he walks off to the sidelines fine, takes his helmet off, the medical staff really isn't coming to his attention. He goes back in and catches 2 more passes late in the 4th quarter with like 2 minutes to go, then is playing the next week with no problems as well. The hit against Tech they were more cautious with, it was against a smaller team so he didn't play the rest of the game, they took it cautiously, Ryan said he didn't want to take it lightly because its his brain, and it turns out to be pretty mild and puts up 10 catches against LSU the next week.

As far as 40's, it will pretty interesting to see where Stepfan Taylor from Stanford winds up compared to Burkhead, not just where they are drafted but how much playing time they get. Taylor ran slower than Burkhead.

Yeah it doesn't matter how well a White player does at the combine or pro day, they will always find a negative. There were reports about Swope running in the 4.3 range before the combine began which is why I think they made a big deal about his hands (not ability to catch but hand SIZE) and now are making a big deal about the concussions. Going into the combine he was speculated to be a 4th rounder, 3rd at best. Now he may be "lucky" to sneak into the 2nd but considered a 3rd by most, meanwhile Tavon Austin, some are considering him to be a top 10 pick. Remember all the medical problems Percy Harvin had? or Best?

 

[Don Wassall]

Mayock, again with the concussions. Other than that, pretty high praise for Ryan Swope. Shouldn't last to the third round, bad thought process by Mayock. I saw a blurp were Gil Brandt rates Ryan as a fourth rounder. I think the PTB get their jollies seing White players lose out on the larger contracts. Transfer of wealth.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-path-to-the-draft/0ap2000000148887/Mayock-high-on-Swope

It's impossible to contact Mayock to have him verify the source or sources for statements like this, which instantly became gospel as soon as Mayock said it. Swope played in 12 games as a freshman, and 13 as a sophomore, junior and senior so he didn't miss any playing time other maybe than a part of the game when he got his alleged concussions. Where's the documentation of "4 concussions"? Maybe it's accurate but it sure doesn't appear to be on the surface. Looking at Swope's college stats, he appears to be very durable and anything but injury prone. http://stats.washingtonpost.com/cfb/players.asp?id=182582

 

[Don Wassall]

You hit the nail on the head. The Combine is a farce - it has been manipulated by the media to create further ingrain the caste system into football. The only number that people pay attention to and is given the most exposure at the combine is the 40 - that is for every position. Every other drill is given minimal coverage.

When an afflete performs poorly they still find ways to lie and make up excuses and prop the afflete up as a high round pick with upside. When a white athlete performs very well it is treated as an outlier and the media tries to find ways to expose the player (mostly at the caste positions) and find other "weaknesses". If a white player performs avg (ie runs a slower than expected 40) at the combine (Chase Thomas for example) he is pretty much written off. No one ever says go back and look at the tape and the players production if that player is white.

After paying close attention to the draft for a decade I think my observations are pretty on point.

Here's an article J. B. Cash wrote on the 2007 Combine:
http://www.castefootball.us/forums/showthread.php/4778-The-Combine

 

[dwid]

It's impossible to contact Mayock to have him verify the source or sources for statements like this, which instantly became gospel as soon as Mayock said it. Swope played in 12 games as a freshman, and 13 as a sophomore, junior and senior so he didn't miss any playing time other maybe than a part of the game when he got his alleged concussions. Where's the documentation of "4 concussions"? Maybe it's accurate but it sure doesn't appear to be on the surface. Looking at Swope's college stats, he appears to be very durable and anything but injury prone. http://stats.washingtonpost.com/cfb/players.asp?id=182582

I can only find 2, the only one where he missed significant playing time was against La Tech and even that one was very mild. The one against Oklahoma state didn't seem that bad and no trainers came to his attention and he went back in, but it was labeled a concussion. Apparently he got a big hit in a game against OU but no reported concussion for that game, just that he was shaken up. People speculated a head injury because it was only a few games after OSU, but no official listing of a concussion.

but the odd thing is, I searched endlessly for when the concussions happened and couldn't find much, now I am finding some articles dated 2012 saying 4 concussions, not many though, most just say "multiple concussions". Its kind of like how old articles online change 40 yard times of players like Peyton Hillis.

 

[Toby Hillis]

You can contact Mayock through Twitter. If a bunch of people asked him basically the same question I'll bet he'd reply to at least one of them.

 

[Quiet Speed]

Where's the documentation of "4 concussions"? Maybe it's accurate but it sure doesn't appear to be on the surface. Looking at Swope's college stats, he appears to be very durable and anything but injury prone. http://stats.washingtonpost.com/cfb/players.asp?id=182582

Hmmph, Ryan Swope and Tannehill really clicked in 2011. I now believe there is a 20% chance Mike Sherman, former Texas A&M coach and now OC with the Dolphins, is trying to reunite himself, Tannehill and Swope and spreading disinformation about Swope’s concussions.hone: If Swope’s stock drops in the draft, Miami could swoop in there and grab him in the second round or so. OK, I’m taking off my tin foil hat now.

 

[Don Wassall]

You can contact Mayock through Twitter. If a bunch of people asked him basically the same question I'll bet he'd reply to at least one of them.

Are you sure about that? I recall Mayock being made fun of by some of the more "hip" broadcasters at the NFL Network for not being a tweeter, that's why I wrote that he's impossible to contact as most corporate media writers and broadcasters never give out email addresses.

 

[celticdb15]

He's legit. Had 7 interceptions this past season. Pretty friggin ironic that Wisconsin would let this kid slip away. I know for a fact they could have used his speed in the back end of their secondary! Who knows maybe they wouldn't be 0-3 in Rose Bowl Games!

Safety Ben Ericksen ran a blazing fast 4.34/40 at Illinois State's Pro Day.

 

[Quiet Speed]

Scott, Vernon highlight Duke pro timing day

Conner Vernon was out there, too, putting his best foot forward over and over, running routes for the scouts.

“This is the audition,â€￾ Vernon said. “You’ve really only got one shot at this.â€￾

Vernon, the top pass catcher in ACC history in receptions and receiving yards, already had participated in the invitation-only NFL Scouting Combine in February. But an acrobatic grab in front of those scouts at Duke was another opportunity to show his stuff.

“He caught everything,â€￾ Duke coach David Cutcliffe said. “Anything he got his hands on, he caught. Conner Vernon is a great football player.â€￾

Vernon said, with all due respect, that he’s no Wes Welker, unless the comparison to the NFL slot receiver has to do with the veteran’s longevity in the league.

“If I could have the career he had, if you told me that, I’d take it tomorrow,â€￾ Vernon said.

But Vernon (6-1, 200) is bigger than Welker, and he said the two have different styles.

“Conner wasn’t a short-ball, screen catcher,â€￾ Cutcliffe said. “He had a few of those, but he is a dig, post, takeoff (receiver). He beat a lot of good corners consistently in this league that are now playing in the NFL.â€￾

Vernon acknowledged that he is one of the top receivers ever to play in the ACC, though he knows that his résumé doesn’t guarantee him a job in the NFL.

“It just goes to show how hard it is to play at this level,â€￾ Vernon said. “It’s not for everybody.â€￾

What is certain is that Duke football has changed, from the indoor practice facility that wasn’t there when Vernon was a freshman to the 21 NFL scouts who were on campus for pro day.

“The NFL is respecting what we’ve been able to accomplish here at Duke,â€￾ Vernon said. “We produce talent, so they’re bringing guys out here to check it out.â€￾

 

[Toby Hillis]

I think he recently added an account, Don. I think its legitimate. https://mobile.twitter.com/Mike_Mayock

 

[Twinkle Toes]

He's legit. Had 7 interceptions this past season. Pretty friggin ironic that Wisconsin would let this kid slip away. I know for a fact they could have used his speed in the back end of their secondary! Who knows maybe they wouldn't be 0-3 in Rose Bowl Games!

Safety Ben Ericksen ran a blazing fast 4.34/40 at Illinois State's Pro Day.

I am always skeptical of pro day timings but the kid can probably fly. I wonder is some team give him a shot at corner.
Speaking of speed in the secondary at Wisconsin: did anyone catch last years Hail Mary against Michigan State. One of the 6 defensive backs out there for the pass was none other that wide receiver Jarred Abbrederis. The kid must have an awesome vertical as I have never heard of a team using a wr to defend a last ditch pass.

 

[celticdb15]

I am always skeptical of pro day timings but the kid can probably fly. I wonder is some team give him a shot at corner.
Speaking of speed in the secondary at Wisconsin: did anyone catch last years Hail Mary against Michigan State. One of the 6 defensive backs out there for the pass was none other that wide receiver Jarred Abbrederis. The kid must have an awesome vertical as I have never heard of a team using a wr to defend a last ditch pass.

Yeah pro day times are always faster but it doesn't have to come down to that. The chosen ones who decide which players receive an invite just need to do a little more research and not be so biased against whitey.

Here's another guy who had a great week of practice at the East/West game but didn't receive a combine invite but tore it up at his pro day.

Draft-worthy defensive end prospect Mike Catapano led the way at the Princeton Tigers' Pro Day.

In front of cheering friends and teammates, all three stars posted impressive numbers in the 40-yard dash, bench press, vertical and broad jumps, 20-yard shuttle and three-cone speed drill.

"The most striking performances came from the 271-pound Catapano, who tossed up 33 bench press reps of 225 pounds, ran his 40 yards in 4.75 seconds, leapt 37.5 vertical inches and complete the three-cone drill in 7.03 seconds. Among defensive ends, these scores would have placed third, sixth, second and fifth at the 2012 NFL Combine.


Compared to the Houston Texan’s star defensive end J.J. Watt, who was named 2012’s AP NFL Defensive Player of the Year, Catapano ran a faster 40 time, jumped higher and came up one bench rep short. Catapano also out-benched the AP NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year, Ndamukong Suh, by one rep."

 

[Twinkle Toes]

I concur. I don't follow the SPARQ stuff to much but it really looks like every time they hold a camp some obscure white guy wins it all or runs the fastest 40 yard dash. It would be nice to see a fair balance of white skill position players invited every February but it never happens. Whats even more annoying is when all the small school players get invited to the combine they are invariably black.

 

[referendum]

I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but who is in charge of the combine, and who makes invite decisions?

 

[Leonardfan]

Referendum here is a Q&A with Combine info.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Q-A-on-NFL-Scouting-Combine-invites.html

How is the original group of invitees determined?
There is a committee of about 10 people who vote on what players are invited. The 10 consists of a representative from each of eight clubs plus a representative from National Football Scouting and Blesto, the two scouting organizations that most clubs are members of.
Each name is brought up individually by position and they are voted on. They have to receive a greater than majority vote (about seven votes) to get an invitation. Most if not all of the original 250 get the seven votes required.

 

[Leonardfan]

Josh Lenz WR Iowa St put up 21 reps of 225 and ran a 4.35 40 and behemoth DL Jake McDonough put up 37 reps of 225 @ 6'5" 305. Great news for them both - displaying the elite athleticism needed to play at the next level.

I am sure they will both be bypassed in the draft though. I have zero faith these days in the NFL and the whole draft "process". The whole scouting community is a bunch of sheep ingesting the whole caste system - never thinking outside of the box and just drooling over affletes.

I used to be a huge draftnik - followed it closely every year since 2003, reading every article, mock draft, watching NFLNetwork's draft programs. This year my interest has begun to really wane. Probably due to the black quarterback infestation that is going to be taking over the league. The same retread scouting reports and analysis given to white players at the skill positions year in and year out has really begun to piss me off as well.

When an afflete runs a slow 40 like Damontre (WTF kinda name is that) Moore and Jarvis Jones everyone is up in arms to make excuses and say please review the tape.

Yet Burkhead who excelled in 5 of the 7 combine events ran a high 4.6 40 at the combine (ran a 4.5 at his proday which is never discussed) - he is automatically written off as not having a position at the next level - no one says go back and review the game tape to see what a great all around back he was.

I do plan to email the league office after this draft and ask as to why the percentage of white players drafted year in and year out always stays within the 25-30% mark. I will also cite the Swope incident when regarding how scouts, front offices and general managers stereotype white athletes.

 

[Leonardfan]

Ray Holley ran a 4.54 40 @ 5'9 200lbs at the La Tech pro day.

 

[celticdb15]

NFL Network's Jamie Dukes uses photo evidence to [COLOR=#0000]imply Manti Te'o is on HGH[/COLOR].


Wide receiver/kick returner Nick Williams among the prospects that impressed at Connecticut's Pro Day.

Former Wisconsin Badgers standout Mike Taylor cancels N.F.L. Draft workout due to lingering injury.

 

[Leonardfan]

Looks like the media is out to rip Barkley now. This Cossell guy came on the scene in the last year or so and has been unabashedly pro black. Here is his rip job on Barkley - http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

 

[celticdb15]

Looks like the media is out to rip Barkley now. This Cossell guy came on the scene in the last year or so and has been unabashedly pro black. Here is his rip job on Barkley - http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

Ya the media really wants to see every blonde haired QB fail. Max Browne a highly regarded recruit for USC this year will likely get the same treatment!

 

[dwid]

I think its every blond haired qb period, because Clausen actually played at Notre Dame.

All of these talks about how they can only evaluate arm strength live and now this guy comes out and saying from watching film and talking about arm strength and its taken as gospel being played on the sports radio all day. Which one is it? I know you can get a better look at arm strength in person but you can see if a ball is floating on a good screen. Its not about the deep throws vertically but more about the intermediate throws to the outside where you have to put good zip on it. Id say his arm strength is NFL caliber and he has great footwork in the pocket. People questioned Peyton Manning's arm strength and said it was average, the same with Brady, they can make all of the NFL throws and have pretty good arms. They speak as if arm strength can't improve. Drew Brees improved greatly on his arm strength after his shoulder injury, he relearned how to throw, using the best possible mechanics in order not to re injure it, and it happened in a matter of months, when the Saints first got him routine throws were going into the dirt at camp. Sean Payton worked with him and by the 3rd game it looked great.

Geno Smith doesn't look like a first rounder nor EJ Manuel, but why aren't the experts not criticizing them? the most they can say is they don't have the "wow factor right now", but of course they always have "high ceilings"

 

[backrow]

from rotoworld (funny how his raw technique is a hindrance while every year there's at least few guys like that, on both side of the ball that go pretty high and everyone seems stoked about their raw potential!

A source tells NFL.com's Ian Rapoport that SMU DE Margus Hunt "won't get past (the) first round."

Hunt is a freak athlete, packing 4.60 speed onto his 6-foot-8, 277-pound body, but will turn 26 in July. He also had an underwhelming college career, and has raw technique. If Hunt goes on day one, it will be based on his athleticism alone. Hunt has been linked to the Jets in recent days.

 

[Leonardfan]

from rotoworld (funny how his raw technique is a hindrance while every year there's at least few guys like that, on both side of the ball that go pretty high and everyone seems stoked about their raw potential!

A source tells NFL.com's Ian Rapoport that SMU DE Margus Hunt "won't get past (the) first round."

Hunt is a freak athlete, packing 4.60 speed onto his 6-foot-8, 277-pound body, but will turn 26 in July. He also had an underwhelming college career, and has raw technique. If Hunt goes on day one, it will be based on his athleticism alone. Hunt has been linked to the Jets in recent days.

Very true Backrow. One only has to look at Ansah from BYU - he is even more inexperienced as a player and less athletic then Hunt yet the NFL and DWFandom are both hyping him up. It is a perfect illustration of the double standard that exists.

The Barkley hatchet job is sad but was to be expected. Nassib on the other hand seems to be well regarded which is a good thing though. 3-4 years ago Landry Jones, Barkley, Glennon would of all been considered surefire first rounders. Let's hope that the spread option is solved this year and a few of these black quarterbacks get hit one to many times while trying to run with the ball. Griffin is already on his second knee surgery.

 

[Don Wassall]

I think Barkley will be a very successful NFL quarterback. He has all the attributes needed, including the right measure of confidence.