wes welker

Discussion in 'Denver Broncos' started by cslewis1, May 2, 2007.

  1. dwid

    dwid Hall of Famer

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    QUOTE=Don Wassall;247964]I wouldn't mind that much seeing Welker go to another team, if only to prove that he isn't just a "system" player who would be nothing without Tom Brady. I'm sick of hearing that about the White receivers who play with Brady and Peyton Manning. If they make White receivers better than they really are, then why do/did the Patriots and Colts keep adding them? Why not load up only with black receivers that Brady and Manning would effortlessly turn into instant all-time greats?[/QUOTE]

    well he did get 1100+ yards with Matt Cassel at qb who had a rating of 89, Welker's production didn't drop off (well by 10 yards and 1 catch) but Moss' did with the 2nd lowest for a whole season since his full year healthy with the Raiders. Id just be worried about him not being involved in a different offense as much as the Patriots involve him. The offense runs through Welker when he is 100 percent. My comeback to the "system" argument is that, why hasn't another team found such a system? no other receiver gets 600 to 700 yards after the catch year after year. First it was Moss, then it was Brady, now its a magical system. His first 3 years were mostly extended handoffs, it doesn't take a hall of famer to throw a bubble screen, after the catch was all Welker. They finally used him more on more typical wide receiver routes as time went on and last year it was about half and half and he had a monster season.

    Him going to a team if featured and used to his potential would be great, but going to a team where he isn't heavily featured would only confirm people's false beliefs, I don't remember exactly what happened with Bennett after he signed with the Rams but I do know they put him in a role where he wasn't suited, 3rd receiver and people acted like he was a big time bust because of his big contract. People act like Welker wasn't good until the Patriots, but it started with the Dolphins with close to 700 yards receiving (2000+ all purpose yards), the only thing that increased with the Patriots is the amount of snaps he was on the field on offense and how much he was much more he was used as the primary receiver. I would say Welker has helped Brady just as much as Brady has helped Welker. Brady's completion ratio has gone up from around 60 to 65 percent, plus he is getting threw for over 4k 3 times, only one season below with 3900, and of course last year was well over 4k with 5235.

    As far as Manning, he is just a little bit weird, even though he has lobbied for White receivers he hasn't used them to their fullest potential by insisting that they all be slot receivers. He has mentioned that it makes him remember back in the day when he was in high school and his brother was the slot receiver for Newman. Newman already had two receivers so he came up with a 3 receiver set offense where he was the primary target most of the time. I think Cooper Manning had potential, he ran a legit 4.6 out of high school, in his book he talks about how his dad told him not to lie, so he put down 4.6. Recruiters told him that they didn't offer him because they know kids lie so they figured he ran a 4.8 or 4.9. If it weren't for his spinal stenosis he could have put up some numbers, Ole Miss would have had to play him out of respect to Archie, similar to how Dicky Lyons Jr. was given a chance at Kentucky. Stokley was great in the slot but he could have played on the outside, he had sub 4.5 speed. Collie, White etc both over 6 foot with great speed, not prototypical slot receivers.

    One quote from Manning yesterday was about how Decker and Stokley run the same route different and having to adjust to each player, I forget the NFL verbiage but it was from out of the slot. I surely hope he doesn't insist on Decker being in the slot as well. Collie could have avoided concussions if he played more on the outside instead of going across the middle all the time. I remember Shipley getting crap because he didn't want to go across the middle after his concussion, well all you have to do is look at Collie and see what happens when going across the middle after a concussion. It is well known that defenders target specific injuries. The Gregg Williams audio tape where he points out injuries, that is already done by guys. However, they are more likely to go after a White guys injuries, which is why I applaud Bellicheck in being sneaky with the injury list. If the NFL was so concerend about this they would stop making it mandatory to release, but we all know Vegas needs those to make the odds.

    Our time will come, Hartline should get close to 1,000 yards with Marshall gone. Notice how his yards came in chunks and then he dissappeared? and all of a sudden Marshall's targets went up a ton? I am sure just a coincidence :)

    People just need to realize great teams know how to get great players. Brady was a 6th round pick and Welker was an UDFA. Most of the production comes from udfa/late round guys except the offensive line.
     
  2. bigunreal

    bigunreal Mentor

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    To no one's surprise, the Patriots refused to give Welker the long term extension he richly deserved. Instead, they frittered away a huge amount on black LB Jerrod Mayo. Typical Castean logic.

    Reading Rotoworld, it appears that Welker was unreasonable enough to want to be paid like a "top outside receiver." The Patriots, showing they are Caste to the core, stuck to their guns in declaring he is only a "slot" receiver. Everyone in the msm would agree with that. So would every DWF in the country.

    Welker is now virtually assured of never making the Hall of Fame. His late start, combined with the Patriots refusal to commit to him, almost guarantee he will hit the open market next season. The question is whether or not any other team will even want him as a starting WR. I truly believe that, despite being the best WR in the league the past four years, he will be lucky to be some lesser team's "slot" guy.

    Welker is a perfect example of how, even when a white player does get a chance, and performs at the highest level possible, he will still get screwed over and not be given what he deserves.
     
  3. dwid

    dwid Hall of Famer

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    That makes my blood boil every time I hear something like that. Yes he played mostly as a slot receiver from 2007-2010, an yes he received mostly short passes, but he had over half of his yards after the catch, his yards after the catch ranked up there every year with guys like Ray Rice etc. Only runningbacks had as many yac as he did, no receivers. The league still hasn't had a guy come close to doing what he does. Teams knew he was going to get the ball in space, had guys responsible for him, all kinds of schemes to try and stop him but it never has happened. If you listen to the NFL soundbytes when he talks to Dane Looker tells him that he was running "his stuff" all week in practice and the coach was obsessed with stopping him. That shows that coaches were focusing on stopping him mostly, not Moss. Yes a deep threat helps the underneath stuff but Moss took plenty of plays off when he wasn't the primary receiver, and he didn't block that much for Welker in the open field. You know the saying you run to set up the pass, that was back when they mostly passed deep. The Patriots philosophy was to run and use short passes with yards after the catch to set up the deep pass. God knows I've ranted too many times about how Wes Welker has been a receiving runningback for most of his career, like Marshall Faulk out of the backfield or in the slot, so I won't reiterate that point too much.


    They said he benefited from Brady, he did fine with Cassel at qb, almost no drop off, meanwhile Moss had his 2nd worst season when he was fully healthy for 16 games, only 4 more yards than the awful season everyone speaks of in Oakland. They said he couldn't do it without Moss, well he did. Then he injured his knee and they used Woodhead more on shorter routes to compensate for the fact that Welker wasn't as effective in 2010. Last year there was no "prototypical wideout" by msm stanards. You had a slot receiver and two tight ends, and a washed up Dieon Branch. You can't run an offense with those guys playing in their traditional roles. Welker was used more like an outside receiver and had 21+ 20 yard plays and his best season yet. Had he not dropped that Superbowl pass I wonder what people would think.

    Nobody says squat about the mistake Moss made that could have won the game in 2007. At least Welker tried.
    [video=youtube;YUGj5qQFnnc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUGj5qQFnnc&feature=player_embedded[/video]

    All of a sudden his arms can't extend pass his helmet? He is 6'4, going against 5'10 dbs, he could've raised his arms all the way up and fought for it, or jumped and raised his arms higher and fought for it? it would have been a spectacular catch, just like if Welker had caught the pass, except Moss DIDN'T EVEN TRY, nor did he beat him self up for it. I know the pass could have been caught because I have seen taller guys like Larry Fitzgerald do it. Not to mention, that was pretty much the last chance to get into scoring position, 3rd down, otherwise its just a hail mary, they could have had a fresh set of downs, or at least kicked a field goal to tie. They still had a few more downs left after the Welker drop.

    no flak for that , and no one remembers, but the image of Welker dropping the ball will be burned into their minds forever
     
  4. sport historian

    sport historian Master

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    Well, he dropped it didn't he? If Welker had caught it, he probably would get a big contract from the Patriots.
     
  5. dwid

    dwid Hall of Famer

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    yes one drop out of 144 catches last year and a career best in yardage. Whose side are you on anyway? That pathetic performance by Moss in the Superbowl by not even fighting for the ball, combined with the fact he had 2 catches for 32 yards in the first two playoff games didn't stop the Patriots from signing him in 2008 (very next year) for 27 million over 3 years. His signing bonus was more than what Welker will make next year, 12 mill and the 27 included 14 mil guaranteed no matter what. So if that catch was the reason then it makes no sense why they gave Moss that contract. I mean who really gives a **** if he dropped a hard pass that he had to do a 360 an jump for, it was barely in his reach, he isn't a long armed receiver, he is basically a runningback, I don't expect any runningbacks to make that catch, I think even Marshall Faulk would have dropped that. The only difference between him and Moss in the Superbowl is that Welker tried, if he hadn't it would have looked like a bad throw by Brady. It shouldn't even matter, he has consistently put up yards since 2007, 110+ catches every season except when he was recovering from the knee injury, and still put up 80 catches. Its the same reason Bellicheck punished Welker for making fun of Rex Ryan, if that had been one of his black players, it wouldn't have mattered. They paid Moss for his regular season performance, they can't even pay Welker for messing up one play which apparently negates his 1500 yard season and 19 catches in the postseason. Its a sign of disrespect for everything that he has accomplished.

    I know people praise Bellicheck for playing White players but I don't think he respects them that much, it just makes more sense. They can play just as well, if not better, they are cheaper and they will do anything you ask. They can keep playing well in cold weather and in snow, as a passing team! The Saints couldn't do that. They are his own expendable kamikazes, which is why he had Woodhead on special teams in the 4th qtr of a preseason game. I thihnk Woodhead's only reason for being there is to replace Welker on on underneath routes if Welker were to go down. Plug and play, which is why they line him in the slot quite a bit. Its smart, because no other team really uses much White talent so you have a almost never ending supply of talented guys that can be used to step up if another goes down. He does the same with his assistant coaches, doesn't hurt them if a few leave because they are mentoring others to know the same stuff.

    Besides, its Bellicheck's fault they were even in that situation. Gronkowski was hurt so the defense focused everyone on Welker. He used Woodhead in the passing game in the first half to make up for this and he had 4 catches, helping them move the chains whether he was targeted or not, as long as he was a threat to catch it. I don't think he ran a single route in the 2nd half. Thats just bad coaching. One of the best game planners makes some stupid decisions at times. Maybe he choked. He can't win the big one with an offensive team being a defensive guru.

    And like Mayo deserves a big contract, he makes tons of tackles, but not really an impact guy. Their defense sucks at the run and pass, he is supposed to be their leader.

    The problem is, slot receiver or not, many fans are realizing he is great and has an elite skillset. The powers to be don't like that. They don't want us to believe any White can be the "featured guy" unless its qb and they have tried to change that without success. Its the reason why Peyton's best shot of running is to split carries. If he goes to another team I doubt he will be heavily featured, he will most likely fade out like Drew Bennett. He is at his prime right now and it would be a shame if he wasn't allowed to keep playing for the next 3 or 4 years. And Bigunreal has a point, how are any of our guys going to be considered for the hall of fame or even come close to getting stats in the top if they don't play until mid to late twenties? Its looking like it will be a long time before we have another White rusher break the 10k mark being that Hillis had to wait a few years to start and now has to split carries. There have been only two Whites to receive 300+ carries in a season, one is in the hall of fame and has over 10k rushing in his career, John Riggins, it probably helped that he played until 36. His first 300+ carry season came at 34, the highest before then was 260, with only 5 seasons going over 200 carries.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2012
  6. celticdb15

    celticdb15 Hall of Famer

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    Welker has 554 catches since 2007. The next closest guy is like 70 catches away. He's a machine and good at what he does!
     
  7. jaxvid

    jaxvid Hall of Famer

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    What burns me up most about the emphasis on that Super Bowl incompletion was that there was a lot of football left. Even if Welker makes the catch there are other things that could have happened. As it was the NE defense had to play as poorly as it always does in the clutch to lose. That is where the blame should be. Not in the failure to make a tremendous circus catch. The double standard is sickening.
     
  8. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    From Weenieworld:

    Wes Welker played on just 43-of-67 snaps in Sunday's win over the Titans. Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez played all 67 snaps and Brandon Lloyd was in for 57. Meanwhile, Julian Edelman rotated into the slot often, recording 23 snaps. Top beat writer Mike Reiss says it "makes one wonder if it's the potential beginning of a less Welker-centric attack." Last year, the slot machine played 89.2 percent of the total snaps and saw 10.7 targets per game. On Sunday, he had three catches on five targets. Welker is playing on a one-year contract after the Patriots declined to give him a long-term deal this offseason.
     
  9. Highlander

    Highlander Mentor

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    It all comes down to him not making that catch in the Super Bowl. It doesn't matter if Wes (or any other White player) was a Pro-Bowler, had won one or more Super Bowls, rushed for 180 yards with 3 TDs, had 200 yards receiving with 2 TDs...or whatever; they are only as good as their last play. The leash is short and there is no give. They are not going to do anything to give him any "bargaining power" for an extended contract after this season. Such is life for White players (no matter how professional, competent, and deserving) in today's NFL (or any other endeavor) in the USSA.
     
  10. Freethinker

    Freethinker Hall of Famer

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    I like what Boomer Esiason has to say about the Welker / New England situation.

    "I think this has to do with the fact that he didn't sign a long-term contract extension," Esiason said in his weekly WEEI appearance on Monday. "I also think that it has something to do with them trying to force-feed Brandon Lloyd. Bill does some quirky things. It's Bill's franchise, this is the way he runs it. I think Wes Welker being quiet about it tells you a lot, meaning that he does not want to piss off the head coach, the guy that makes the decisions, and he's going to be a loyal soldier. But inside he's got to be burning. Certainly he has a lot of pride for who he is as a football player. ...

    "I think Tom Brady gets stuck in the middle here. I don't care what Tom says, it's got to be frustrating that a very dear friend of his on the field is for some reason being made an example of. I certainly don't like it. I wouldn't have liked it if I were the quarterback. But this is something that goes on constantly in the NFL."


    http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/8391153/wes-welker-reduced-role-new-england-patriots-it-is
     
  11. dwid

    dwid Hall of Famer

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    You can tell Brady wants him on the field, he targeted him 11 times compared to the 13 times he targeted Lloyd who played way more snaps, yet averaged less than Ridley at 7.5 ypc compared to the 19 ypc Welker had. No matter how you utilize Welker, he will not be denied.
     
  12. dwid

    dwid Hall of Famer

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    Steven A Smith saying Tom Brady needs to stand up and support Wes Welker, he actually had a ton of nice things to say about Welker. Said that Welker was on 89 percent of the snaps before this season, now its dropped drastically, thats not a coincidence. Said Brady doesn't have to speak against the organization just to support Welker by saying that he needs him and how much he helps the team. Then Skip mentions the dropped pass in the Superbowl......yet what goes unmentioned is that Hernandez dropped one the very next drive, the game wasn't even close to over when Welker dropped it. Branch dropped one as well but is gone.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
  13. jaxvid

    jaxvid Hall of Famer

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    I wonder if some of this isn't related to the errant pass thrown by Brady that Welker couldn't make a diving outstretched catch on (not a drop by the way!).

    Certainly you have to consider contract issues also. It must be great to be a NFL GM and have a White non-QB/non-oline guy on the hook for a new contract. You can jerk the hell out of the guy and almost no one will say anything, especially the player himself. Not even the guy's jew agent will go into bitch mode.

    Compare that to ANY decent black player and the media and fans will rant about how he deserves more and the player himself can sulk and even quit or not show up and everybody is all "oh that's understandable they be dissin' him". But with a White guy the GM and coach have a hammer and now they can extract some revenge. Cut back on playing time, don't call his number. Treat him poorly through the media. Sucks to be a White player at the forbidden positions in the caste NFL.
     
  14. northwinds

    northwinds Mentor

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    ESPN's Sports Center actually did a segment this morning on Wes Welker's lessened role in the Patriot's offense. They compared his stats for the first two games in 2011 and 2012. He had almost half as many plays in 2012, and not surprisingly his stats were about one half of his 2011 total for the first two games. At no time in the report did they try to analyze why the Patriots would lessen the role of a receiver who has put up the best receiving stats in the NFL for the past five years. I did not realize that Welker did not even start in the home opener which the Patriots lost. Clearly, that should have been the theme of this piece.......why didn't Welker start....and would the Patriots have won the game if he did.
     
  15. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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    It's absolutley disgusting and the Niners would have never treated Jerry Rice like this. Is there an agenda here? It comes down to many things. One of them might just be money. They don't want to pay him a huge contract at his age because of the serious injury two years ago. This is so unfair as he came back as strong as ever. Welker has been loyal to the Pats since day one and he has been just as important as Brady to them. You would think that they would think about that and pay him what he is worth in what will probably be his final contract of his career. I hope things change but it doesn't look good at this point. He is by far my favorite receiver in the nfl with jordy nelson being a close second.
     
  16. Woody

    Woody Guru

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    "He is by far my favorite receiver in the nfl with jordy nelson being a close second."

    :biggrin:
     
  17. dwid

    dwid Hall of Famer

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    they discussed it the other day when I watched it, they said it could be the contract, it could be the "drop" in the Superbowl but ultimately they had no definite answer and even they were baffled by it. I don't think they care about Wes Welker but they need answers, like is this going to continue or not because they like to get fantasy info out there.

    Matt Light was on Mike and Mike discussing the issue as well. He said "maybe McDaniels wants to get the ball to Lloyd more" (who averaged 7.5 ypc last game) or "Bellicheck wants Edelman out there and loves his hard work ethic, but then again you have the same thing in Wes Welker so I don't know, maybe thye just want the offense less Welker oriented but eventually they are going to have to get back to that" Those aren't his exact words but close. He said Welker probably hasn't talked to Bellicheck, it isn't the Patriot way. Brady failed to comment on it and dodged the question. He needs to step up for a player that has helped him out so much in the past, all those underneath routes that Welker gets yac on inflates his stats. Without Welker he doesn't look like the same qb. They Edelman can run block better but I have seen Welker block, he is a great blocker.

    both shows said they need to go back to Welker. Steven A Smith was screaming about it, talking about he has been the backbone of the franchise helping them get to the Superbowl twice.

    My take is, they want to keep him at a low price. If they were going to get rid of him, he is on a one year contract, why not just play him to his fullest capability so they can get the most out of him by a trade?

    Many consider Edelman White, he looks White and probably is White as far as his genes (doesn't look semetic) but he considers himself a jew. That might help him out more with the organization.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012
  18. backrow

    backrow Hall of Famer

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  19. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    Walterfootball takes heavy shots at Wes Welker. This is the same clown that claimed the only reason Welker put up good numbers was because of Randy Moss. Well Welker went on to surpass his career best in receiving yards without Randy Moss. So which one is it you moron? This guy Walter Cherpinsky knows nothing about football.

    Wes Welker, WR, Patriots. Age: 32. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Wes Welker produces like crazy fantasy numbers, but he's also one of the league's most overrated players. There's a reason why the Patriots wouldn't show him the money. He drops lots of passes and is arguably a product of the system. He's also about to enter his mid-30s. Still, he's a highly effective slot receiver.
     
  20. dwid

    dwid Hall of Famer

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    Should seem like common sense to these idiots but when you lead the league in catches you might have a high drop total. Despite that terrible game where he dropped 3, he didn't lead the league in drops, that honor would go to Jimmy Graham with 13, Welker had 10 which is high. I think Roddy White had 14 or 15 last year. Welker also had a high amount last year at 9 but who knows how these things are counted because there seems to be some variation in lists among the leaders. Another list says Jimmy Graham led in drops last year leaving out Roddy White. The thing is, he isn't close to the bottom in drop rate, and wasn't in bottom rankings for drop rate for 2009 to 2011 as well. In 2009 he had 6 drops. Logic says if you have close to 120 catches with 10 drops, then you would have 5 to 6 with around 60 to 70 catches. So no he doesn't have the greatest hands but he doesn't have the worst hands. Also I have seen him have some that looked like they were on purpose, like a scenario where its 2nd and short a little screen pass where the pass is a little off and the play is sniffed out by the defense, so with having to adjust for the ball giving him no time to make people miss, he is going to get crushed for a loss. I can't say they were definitely on purpose because I have remembered in the past him trying to do something with passes like that, so who knows. Maybe that is the case because he went from 6 in 2009 to 9 in 2011.

    Should the Saints get rid of Jimmy Graham? or Darren Sproles who I believe had 9 drops.

    What is this magical system that allows someone to have around 4,000 yards after the catch in his career? means thats all him. They say well he runs option routes, well every freaking receiver runs option routes since Spurrier came up with the fun n gun or whatever you want to call it.
     
  21. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    What the Patriots decide to do with Wes Welker and Danny Woodhead is the most intriguing question of the upcoming free agent signing period. This article quotes five "experts" on Welker. Predictably, Caste clowns Casserly and Jeremiah are negative.


    Gathering opinions on Wes Welker


    As analysts dissect the upcoming NFL free agency period, it's like a deja vu all over again when it comes to the Patriots and Wes Welker. Just like last year, Welker's status is considered a top league-wide storyline.

    Let's gather some opinions on Welker.

    Polian -- Welker an option in 2-to-3-year range. On Tuesday's ESPN "NFL Live" program, former Colts president Bill Polian commented on Welker, who rates as one of his tier-A free agents. "He's incredibly productive. He's incredibly tough. He can return punts. He's a playmaker. He's savvy. He's smart. He's been durable. But he's 32 years of age," Polian opined. "This is a guy who if he does not stay with New England -- and they would not give him a long-term contract last year -- I would look for him to go to a contending team. Lots of people say Miami; I'm not sure about that. I think there are other teams that would say to themselves, 'This is a guy that we won't get full value if we give him a four-year contract. But within the next two, maybe three years, he can put us over the top. I think there will be people out there bidding for him."

    Casserly -- 'not a lot of options' for Welker. In a video posted on NFL.com from NFL Network's "Total Access" program, Charley Casserly views the Patriots as Welker's best fit. "I don't think he has a lot of options, certainly not at the money [$9.5 million] he made last year," Casserly says. "What he is, is a slot receiver, a clever guy underneath." Casserly, who called Welker "somewhat of a system guy", mentions Denver as one possibility. Fellow NFL Network analyst Willie McGinest, in the same video, was in agreement with Casserly.

    Jeremiah -- Welker one of riskiest free agents. NFL.com's Daniel Jeremiah, a former NFL scout, pinpointed Welker as one of the NFL's riskiest free agents (video here). "You look at him in that offense, with that quarterback, he's a perfect fit in the slot for the New England Patriots. I don't know that the skill set necessarily travels to all offenses," he says. "He's a little bit dependent on the system. I think you get in trouble if you pay him too much money."

    Light -- have to take care of the 'heart and soul.' In an appearance on Comcast SportsNet's "Sports Tonight" program on Tuesday (video here), former Patriots offensive lineman Matt Light called Welker the "heart and soul" of the team. "You have to find a way to make him right," Light says. "I think he made really good money last year -- you can't argue that fact ... at some point, you have to say, 'just do the right thing for the guy; he's been there long enough.'"

    Freeman -- Welker is 'most underrated player in football.' CBSSports.com National NFL insider Mike Freeman writes on some of the big-name receivers in free agency (link here), and says this of Welker, "[He] is the most underrated player in all of football and has been for several years. If Welker doesn't stay in New England, there would be a slew of teams waiting to sign him." Freeman doesn't envision the Patriots placing the $11.4 million franchise tag on Welker.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-..._/id/4739866/gathering-opinions-on-wes-welker
     
  22. Extra Point

    Extra Point Hall of Famer

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    It's amazing how one of the top receivers in the NFL is denigrated as a "system guy."

    So a man who racks up 100+ receptions year after year does so because of the "system."

    So why isn't anyone else doing it? Because they can't. Because Welker is an elite athlete and an elite performer and they're not.

    The Patriots have been successful because they have two hall of fame caliber players on their team, Welker and Brady. Welker's worth what the highest paid receivers get.

    If the Patriots let Welker walk they'll be sorry.
     
  23. dwid

    dwid Hall of Famer

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    The Patriots do run a different system than some NFL teams, but the main difference is that you can communicate plays in one or two words rather than the long stuff like what Coryell and west coast offenses (or those that blend) such as "Scatter-Two Bunch-Right-Zip-Fire 2 Jet Texas Right-F Flat X-Q." Instead of using route trees or calling a single receivers route, instead they use concepts, which is easier for players to memorize, so you would think blacks would excel at something so simple.

    Parcells ran it, probably anyone from his coaching tree runs it, and now that Bellicheck has had quite a few of his guys hired elsewhere, also run it, like Weiss, and of course Crennel (where was McCluster's 100 catch season last year?)

    More than one person has said that Welker is the heart and soul of the team, including Brady himself. It makes me worry that is the reason Bellicheck has loaded up on runningbacks, because in the beginning of Brady's career they were run heavy and he was more of a game manager.

    Perhaps Bellicheck is thinking of going back to the same thing if they don't retain Welker. You could try to find someone to replace him, but I don't think you are going to get 110 catches a season. Welker is open on pretty much every play if you look at the all 22 film. Welker has said it, and Brady agreed with him on one of the soundbytes the mic picked up.

    It wouldn't be a big stretch to say he can get 150+ catches in a season, but sometimes there are better matchups, and that is what Brady is the best at, finding the best matchups, and 120+ times a season that is Welker (probably more but sometimes Brady just wants to sling it to the hands of stone receiver running deep down the field, usually for a dropped pass).

    I am worried that the next qb he works with won't be as good at recognizing that. No doubt that Welker could master another system with the 8 word long plays.

    Perhaps Bellicheck is thinking of putting Woodhead in Welker's role. He has lined up in the slot quite a bit and it looks good on paper but there is more to playing the slot, he is best on busted plays, dumpoffs/screens but the slot receiver runs more than that, and Welker has been running the same stuff since he was back at Texas Tech. Woodhead has run some nice routes out of the slot though, so there is potential.

    If Welker doesn't stay I guess the best scenario would be for him to go to the Saints, Drew Brees is an amazing qb, espescially with the talent he has had to work with over the years. He got 5,000 yards one year with not one single receiver getting 1k, he can find the open receiver and that would be Welker, it would pretty similar to the Brady/Welker/Gronk situatation with a little of Woodhead, except it would be Brees/Welker/Jimmy Graham with a little bit of Sproles in there, btw he got Sproles 88 catches the other year and I think Graham 100. Welker will have more favorable matchups then those two. Denver would be bad because he would be taking away from Decker, Stokley is nice because he is a guy that is going to get around 500 yards a season at his age. With Welker gone then the best scenario is for Woodhead to take over, he hardly gets the ball now so why not utilize him? I think you could do more of a Marshall Faulk role with him, except instead of the majority of his plays coming taking handoffs it will be in the slot, the reverse of what Marshall was doing for the Rams. Maybe 60 to 80 catches catches and 40 to 60 rushes. Would be great to see 80 catches and 80 rushes but I don't know if we would see that. As far as Edelman I see him as more of a fit on the outside like what Lloyd was supposed to be, he did okay in Welker's role but not ideal, I think he averaged under 10 ypc, which shows that you can't just plug and play and get the same results.

    Say what you want about the Saints but its one of the best situations for Welker to thrive in, they have a spread offense that is similar to the Patriots, he gets the ball to the open guy and they like to do a lot of short pasing with yards after the catch.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  24. Extra Point

    Extra Point Hall of Famer

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    I think Welker would excel in any system due to his elite athleticism. Welker has tremendous quickness and agility and he knows how to use it.

    Many analysts look at only one thing in assessing wide receivers, the 40 time. Well, football isn't track.

    Welker is very durable. This is an underrated asset for a player.
     
  25. dwid

    dwid Hall of Famer

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    there are many other factors that would hurt his stats though, many teams he would be the 3rd read on most plays.

    not every qb is like Brady, Manning and Brees where its find the open man where they can scan the field and recognize where a player is going to be based on coverage, they can recognize that stuff so fast.

    Matt Ryan is not at that level yet, plus it would be two "stud" receivers ahead of him in the progressions, plus a run heavy offense. Joe Flacco is close but not quite there yet, plus Smith and Boldin would be the first two reads.

    Guys like Manning, Brady and Brees have mastered the concept of where a receiver should be on option routes based on what coverage the defense is in but Welker is probably the best at being on the same page at recognizing the same thing.

    Decker is pretty good at too, which is why he got 1k with Demaryius Thomas also getting 1k. Decker is the better all around receiver but is usually running shorter routes because DT can't and then Stokley runs even shorter routes. You put Welker on that team then Decker's yards go down, but since Decker might be open more down the field you might see a split between yards with neither guy getting 1k. They might have one amazing year where 3 guys get 1k but its still risky.

    You put him on teams like the Bears then guys like Brandon Marshall are going to be whining about targets.

    Teams like the 49ers, well that guy can't even make it past the first read. I think Welker could put up 1k in any system, but I want him to keep getting 100+ receptions, he isn't far away from 1000 career receptions if he keeps that up, 2 years in New England and probably New Orleans as well. For most other teams 115-120 catches will probably dip to 70 or 80 with around 1000 yards, based on his production in 2009 when they used him more on normal wideout routes more than the screens etc, averaging 12.9, so it would take him 3 years to get to that 1k reception mark.


    Plus, isn't it just fun watching the entire New England team? taking away Welker would make it less fun to watch. Then you have to tune into some blacker team to see what Welker does.

    well I did forget about one guy, Andrew Luck, he is pretty damn close to being elite, at such a young age its amazing, it would be a reason to actually watch the Colts more.

    Just think of how he got screwed for a few games on HIS OWN TEAM and wasn't getting the ball that much for a few games. Will he have a qb lobbying for him with the next team if this happens? (keep in mind he has been with Brady since 2007)
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013

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