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Discussion in 'College Football Stars' started by white lightning, Oct 7, 2006.
Staley was faster and more athletic than Gerhart but Toby is stronger than Luke.
Luke was faster than Toby but Toby has the size and power to play FB which will make a huge difference in his being drafted much higher and given a better opportunity than Luke was. Luke couldn't be bulked up to play FB, he lacked the size and power, but he had such great speed, moves and ability to find the openings. His snubbing bothers me the most for some reason, probably because I still believe that Luke would've been a great RB that ended the White inferiority myth.
From Rotoworld: Stanford RB Toby Gerhart has upcoming visits with the Ravens and Eagles, according to his school paper. Both fits seem odd. The Eagles just signed Mike Bell to complement LeSean McCoy and have Leonard Weaver as a possible short-yardage guy. The Ravens' backfield is packed with Ray Rice and Willis McGahee, but it's possible Baltimore sees Gerhart as a future power back to pair with Rice.
That's all we need -- Fat Bastard Andy Reid to ruin Gerhart's pro career. And the Ravens with Rice have a young back that is also a good receiver, so Toby would look to be a secondary back there. I'm going to be nervous as hell come the draft to see who takes Gerhart, Tebow, Decker, Shipley, Cooper, White, McGaha, and Meier.
Andy Reid is so bad that I could see him drafting Gerhart to use him as a WSTD or even use him as a fullback with a few carries here and there. That would be a terrible place for him to end up but I highly doubt Porky will draft Toby. He's going to be too busy drooling over all the affletes in the draft.
I still say Gerhart goes to Texans...the Chiefs or Packers might be next...
So Don...I'll be very interested to see those where thoseplayers end up too....do you think Jake Sharp will be drafted?? Did not see his name...I was hoping he could land somewhere between rounds 5-7....or might it be better to land as a free agent where he ends up in a better situation?
22, I'll be very surprised if Sharp is drafted, and even more surprised if he ever plays a down ina regular season game. At best I see him being switched to slot receiver ala Woodhead. Stokley and Welker and several others are making Whites more acceptable as slot receivers.
The small White RBs get screwed over as surely as the big ones. Gerhart had to be almost superhuman in performance and in measurables to even be considered as a tailback in the NFL, and he still may be turned into a fullback or H-back depending on who drafts him. The ones who are what the NFL considers ideal size (say 6'0" and 220 lbs.) seem to never get a chance in college. If Sharp does get an opportunity in the NFL then it will be an indication that the Caste System is beginning to crack.Edited by: Don Wassall
Another Toby article:
Gerhart Readies for Coming Draft
Toby Gerhart declared for the NFL Draft in early January. Since then, his life has been a whirlwind of workouts, medical testing, interviews and drills. From training six days a week in Irvine, Calif., to performing in front of a legion of scouts, coaches and front office personnel at the Combine, Gerhart has been in full preparation mode for months. He's aware of the stakes ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬" impressing NFL staffs, and thus solidifying an early round status, could mean a difference of millions of dollars. And so he works.
No one can dispute Gerhart's success at the collegiate level. The 2009 Heisman runner-up ran for 3,522 yards and 43 touchdowns in his career. He started for two full seasons. The numbers are eye-opening, but production alone does not a good NFL prospect make. The offseason leading up to the draft provides an avenue for teams to evaluate a player's athleticism and character, which, along with amateur accomplishment, helps them project future success.
"Everyone said I had the intangibles, the background, the intelligence in terms of understanding the game, and great tape,"Â Gerhart said. "I had years of tape where I ran for a lot of yards and a lot of touchdowns, but then there are certain measurables, between the 40 [yard dash] and my official height and weight and vertical, that matter, too."Â
Before doing all of the requisite drills at the meat market known as the NFL Combine, the perception of Gerhart was that he was a good but not great athlete who may be a step slow and too one-dimensional for the next level. His draft status fluctuated anywhere from the late first round to the fourth. He was viewed as a fullback and not a running back. With so much riding on his performances in group and individual workouts, Gerhart took a leave of absence from Stanford for winter quarter, dropped off the baseball team and moved south to train at the Velocity Sports Performance Center. There, he spent hours per day on his lateral and linear speed, cone work, pass catching, interview tactics, play diagramming and so on.
"It was just straight training. I liked that. I didn't have to worry about school, I didn't have to worry about anything else, I was just 100 percent into training,"Â he said.
There were two areas of his game that required particular attention: his straight-line speed and receiving abilities. He was generally seen as a bruiser that did not have a terrible amount of quickness; such players rarely find extensive success at running back at the next level. Additionally, he did not catch too many balls at Stanford<\p>ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬"<\p>it was rarely a large part of the Cardinal game plan during his career<\p>ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬"<\p>so teams did not have a good read on whether or not he could be a force in the passing game. Lastly, there was a medical question: Gerhart tore his ACL as a sophomore and was forced to miss practically the entire season, and any lingering effects could damage his draft stock.
And so Gerhart trained, then he trained some more. For the first time in his life, he was focusing solely on football<\p>ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬"<\p>instead of dropping weight to become a better baseball player, he was able to instead work on crafting his body to NFL specifications.
"I spent the day working out. I was in the best shape of my life. In terms of body fat, speed, everything was going nicely,"Â Gerhart said of his time in Irvine.
Then came the Combine in late February, where Gerhart was able to show off his abilities. Medically, his knee checked out<\p>ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬"<\p>his MRIs and x-rays were examined by doctors from every team. His weigh-in produced no surprises: 6-foot-0, 231 pounds, just about where he was listed as a Cardinal. But that was simply the calm before the storm: the drills were ultimately what mattered, and Gerhart excelled.
"We started out with the vertical [jump], and that went really well. Then there was the broad [jump], and that went pretty well,"Â he said. "Then we got down to the 40 and for me, everything was riding on the 40. I was confident."Â
"You finish your 40 and you have no idea what you've ran. They don't tell you your time,"Â he continued. "I checked my cell phone to see if anyone was texting me. One of my roommates from Stanford just posted "Hell yeah!"Â as a text message so I thought, ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‹Å“Well, it must have been pretty good.'"Â
Indeed, it was: he ran a 4.53 in the event, a very fast time for a man his size. With one run, he had answered a wealth of questions. When he performed flawlessly in receiving drills, it was the icing on the cake to what was seen, uniformly, as an excellent Combine performance.
"I got a lot of positive feedback,"Â Gerhart said. "I didn't see the television broadcast, but my parents said they were expecting me to run mid to high 4.6s, so by running a 4.53 it opened a lot of people's eyes and showed I was much faster than people thought. It solidified my draft stock a little more, and it solidified me playing running back at the next level."Â
Post Combine, Gerhart begin individual workouts. The New York Jets flew their running backs coach out to put him through drills last week; he will have a similar meeting with the Denver Broncos this week. He has already flown out to meet the San Diego Chargers, and will visit the facilities of the Baltimore Ravens and Philadelphia Eagles.
"It's exciting, but it's also crazy. You talk to teams and you may get a good feeling from them, but then they don't draft you, and a team you never talked to is someone who picks you,"Â he said.
The draft is less than three weeks away. For now, Gerhart has established himself as a late first to mid second round prospect. He's back at Stanford to finish his final 13 units; he'll graduate on time in June. He'll be at home on draft weekend, surrounded by friends and family.
"I think we're going to have fun and enjoy the process and wait for a phone call. Hopefully it comes earlier rather than later and we can celebrate."Â
"the numbers are eye-opening, but production alone does not a good NFL prospect make."
Funny how this only applies to White athletes. When people were recently that Terrence Cody was going to make a good pro, based on how "great he was in college" I said "what is it that the Tebow haters say? that success in college doesn't equal success in the pros?"
I got some vague answers such as "thats the quarterback position which is different." I guess what makes it different is that is a primarily White position, because when arguing for Gerhart saying he will be a good pro, people have responded with the same line "just because he was good in college doesn't mean he will be in the pros, I bet you think Tebow will be a good quarterback in the NFL too right?"
When a White athlete does well in college, he is usually considered a bad NFL prospect by DWFS until he proves otherwise (and they usually have to play well right away, most fans have written Craig Steltz off as a bust because he hasn't been a full time starter yet, and kind of hard for players like Steltz, also Hass, when they never get a real chance to prove themselves), but for a black player who was great in college, he is considered a great prospect until he fails for more than 3 or 4 years.
Dwid, looking at this years draft and comparing Craig Steltz who was a hard hitter and ball hawk to Chad Jones an overrated afflete playing the same position at the same school. Steltz had more production even though he was not a starter until his senior year. He is also as fast as Chad Jones...just another example of the caste system.
Not since Luke Staley and Touchdown Tommy Vardell has a white running back had a chance to shine. I hope he goes to the Chargers. He would fit in perfect there. Sproles would be the speed back with Toby having the best of both worlds. Imagine how many Stanford fans would buy season tickets. His legend would grow even bigger. I can't wait for the draft. Good luck to Toby!
I'd love to see Toby in a Charger's uniform, as he'd be the clear main back then, with Sproles as a change of pace runner.
Great video about Toby Gerhart. It's short but sweet. Man is this kid put together. He is a mack truck. Built like a machine. I can't believe how low they have him ranked. In a fair world, he is a top ten pick!
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d81764bf4&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=trueEdited by: white lightning
Some draft guru who had Gerhart in the 2nd round, his analysis: Great on-field production, eye-popping measurables, ...but, he has a lot of mileage and his high-impact running style will shorten his career. Therefore he drops in the draft.
I call b.s. on that analysis. If Earl Campbell was in this draft, he'd still be the number one pick even knowing he only had 4 good years in him. I've yet to hear one legitimate reason why Gerhart is not a top ten pick.
Many affletes also had a lot of mileage during their college careers but for them it doesn't matter. They are supermen who can handle the punishment and a white running back obviously can't. Look at Ron Dayne. He was shorter than Toby and ran in the 4.6 range yet was drafted with the 11th pick. No one ever mentioned the wear and tear he took in college. He turned out to be a colossal bust and never even came close to having a 1,000 yard season. Why was he a bust? He was overweight at 250lbs on only a 5'10 frame, had a poor work ethic, and didn't have enough speed. Toby has excellent speed, is one of the hardest workers in the game, and was very productive in college. It's starting to get ridiculous the way he's being questioned.
NFL.com has a caste poll, 'Which RB will have the best NFL career'? And yes guess which Top 5 RB they left out of that poll? Yes you guessed it, Toby Gerhart! What a suprise, NOT!
To add to insult they include Dexter McCluster who isn't an out and out RB and who deeply dissapointed at the Combine. This made me email NFL.com about Gerharts exclusion though I now feel as though it really was just a waste of my time. I did add that I'm an English NFL fan (a market that the NFL want to exploit) and that we are a bit more suspicious over here about the racial makeup of the NFL and certain positions like RB.
Here's an excerpt from an article talking about Toby as being a possible Patriot. Todd McShay said Toby isn't a good pass catcher. What a load of crap! Toby was rarely thrown to out of the backfield. He did just fine when he was thrown to. Once again, the lack of opportunity to prove one's self in a particular aspect of the game is totally ignored by a supposed "expert." They just have to knock the White athlete somehow, and intellectual honesty doesn't matter at all.
Old RBs run out of time</span>
Patriots need fresh legs</span>
By Ian R. Rapoport</span>|
Friday, April 16, 2010|http://www.bostonherald.com|<a href="http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/" target="_blank">N.E.
Photo by Herald file</span>
F</span>OXBORO - The Patriots [<a href="http://scores.heraldinteractive.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=bostonherald&page=nfl/teams/077/team.aspx?id=077" target="_blank">team
stats</a>]</font> are racing the clock. No, not the draft clock.
The one that keeps churning out birthdays for their aging group of
If the age of 30 represents the swan song for the position, the
Patriots have been listening to the same music for years.
Does next week's draft present an opportunity to add a youthful face
alongside <a href="http://www.bostonherald.com/search/?topic=Fred+Taylor" target="_blank">Fred
(age 34), Sammy Morris (34) and <a href="http://news.bostonherald.com/search/?topic=Kevin+Faulk&searchSite=recent" target="_blank">Kevin
(33)? Is it a chance to push middling starter <a href="http://www.bostonherald.com/search/?searchSite=true&topic=Laurence+Maroney&mode=score&sorting=pubdate" target="_blank">Laurence
toward his potential?
If the Patriots decide to satisfy the No. 6 need according to the
Herald, one draft analyst believes there will be ample options late.
"I think it'll be in the middle rounds before they get to running
back,"Â said ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay, a Swampscott native.
If the Pats chose a top back, trading up for electric Clemson running
back C.J. Spiller is unlikely. Plucking hard-nosed Ryan Mathews from
Fresno State or dynamic Jahvid Best from California could happen at No.
Otherwise, with three second-round picks, none in the third and one
in the fourth, the Pats may have to move up to find value. Coach <a href="http://www.bostonherald.com/search/?searchSite=true&topic=Bill+Belichick&mode=score&sorting=pubdate" target="_blank">Bill
Belichick</a> has said if he must move, "we'll be able to get
They may have to.
Stanford's Toby Gerhart, Tennessee's Montario Hardesty, and
Mississippi State's Anthony Dixon are potential power backs, while Ole
Miss' Dexter McCluster and Southern Cal's Joe McKnight are candidates to
take over for Faulk on third downs, eventually.
McShay believes all would likely be available late in the second
"When you look at Toby Gerhart, he can provide the toughness and the
no-nonsense running ability,"Â McShay said. "Not a great pass-catcher,
but he's a better athlete than a lot of people give him credit for. The
more tape I watch, the more I like."Â
Edited by: Colonel_Reb
I can't think of a single White RB, FB, WR or TE who didn't/doesn't have good hands. About the worst hands I can think of are possessed by Jeremy Shockey and even he would be above average were he black. Gerhart's a star baseball player; to claim without evidence that he can't catch a football wellis typical caste racism.
Hey, McShay...you are one of those people that have not given him the credit that he has proved and deserves. Maybe if you had watched more tape of him before making your analysis and low draft projections of him, he wouldn't be expected to still be available "late in the second round." Also, it sounds like you still need to watch even more tape of him if you think he's "not a great pass-catcher". Please tell us, what did you base your premature conclusions on before you saw tape of him and what he could do? Could it have been his lack of skin pigmentation?
Hey, McShay...you are one of those people that have not given him the credit that he has proved he deserves. Maybe if you had watched more tape of him before making your analysis and low draft projections of him, he wouldn't be expected to still be available "late in the second round." Also, it sounds like you still need to watch even more tape of him if you think he's "not a great pass-catcher". Please tell us, what did you base your premature conclusions on before you saw tape of him and what he could do? Could it have been his lack of skin pigmentation?
Jerehmy Urban doesn't have the greatest hands, either. Other than him, there aren't too many. Any white man touching an NFL football must be flawless at all times.
The only white pass catcher other than the two aforementioned that doesn't have "great" hands IMO is Matt Jones. His hands in his last season in Jacksonville improved to the point that they were pretty good though (I'd say above average for a WR). He was finally getting the hang of his new position and on pace for 1,000 yards, but became the brunt of unabashed hate from DWFs and the media.Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins
And BTW, I think I've only seen Wes Welker have something that would count as a "drop" one time and I watch him a 4-6 times every season and in the playoffs. Hass is of course another guy with impeccable hands.
Whites have an edge in hands over blacks. I think a small part is hand eye coordination, but the bigger part is afroletes getting alligator arms due to lack of toughness. Blacks know they will still get big paydays and be "given a pass" regardless of key drops.
Don, good point/allusion to Toby's baseball prowess. I mean a baseball is traveling faster & much smaller than a baseball & Toby catches tons of baseballs. "McGay" is a caste lackey.
i've never seen Jones drop a pass. when did this "averageness" catching ability occur? i'm just curious. even going back to his collegiate career, despite being known for carrying the ball in one hand all the time when he scrambled, he almost never fumbled.
in fact, Black Jack del Negro often publicly lambasted Jones for catching too many passes one-handed.