Japanese Sprinters

Discussion in 'Track & Field' started by jacknyc, May 6, 2009.

  1. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,373
    While it was exciting for a while, but now I'm becoming suspicious. Japan cannot become a sprint power overnight unless they are doing something strange. Where did all of these guys come from? I would say the same thing if all of a sudden Ireland became a sprinting power within a year or two. I know Japan has always had some talent, but nothing even remotely close to this. Too many guys running world class times from out or now where. I hope I'm wrong but usually where there is smoke there is fire!
     
  2. jacknyc

    jacknyc Master

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    3,195
    .... a bit of context here:
    -Kiryu Yoshihide set a World Youth Record (16 yrs old) last year, before setting the World Junior Record this year.
    -Shota Izuka, won the 200m gold medal at the World Junior Championships in 2010.
    -Akiyuki Hashimoto finished fourth in the 200m at the 2011 World Youth Championships.

    So these guys haven't really appeared out of nowhere. It's just that we don't really follow Japanese track, and understandably so, since they rarely compete outside of their country.
     
  3. jacknyc

    jacknyc Master

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    3,195
    Well Shota Izuki withdrew from the 200m race in Tokyo today.
    In his absence, our old friend Jared Connaughton won the 200m in 20.70.
     
  4. jacknyc

    jacknyc Master

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    3,195
    Well Kiryu comes back down to earth....he finished 3rd in Tokyo today in a time of 10.40 (-1.4w). Winning time was 10.19. 2nd was 10.24.
    He did beat a couple of decent int'l sprinters though....
     
  5. RCSMAN

    RCSMAN Mentor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    824
  6. athlete888

    athlete888 Newbie

    Joined:
    May 24, 2009
    Messages:
    14
  7. Francois the Postman

    Francois the Postman Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    47
    Last edited: May 17, 2013
  8. jacknyc

    jacknyc Master

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    3,195
    I disagree.
    From what I've read he is still attending high school and lives at home with his mother and father and brother. He is not in some special training group living away from home. And he started running fast at 16 yrs old - set a World Youth Record. That all makes me think he is clean.
    And why would some coaches/officals pick a 16 yr old to put on a doping program, when Japan already had older, more established sprinters?!
    Plus if you watch the video of his race, you can see he has a very slight build compared to the Americans.
    And furthermore, if it was that easy to turn a short teenager into a nearly sub-10 sprinter, than there should be thousands and thousands of sub-10 teenage sprinters all around the world.
     
  9. harold

    harold Guru

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    129
    sarms and more sarms ,
    more gains the early you get them on em .
    as long as think near enough to adult height ,.

    being a fast athlete simply comes down to training for speed
    and at the same time(which most people will lack in) having high androgenicity kicking in at
    right stage of late teens .not rocket science ..... can happen naturally in some more than others or can force it by other means .


    there have been many athletes that benefited ,
    but still a question of knowledge and sourceing them .
    and which circles mix in .



    why not thousands of such sprinters then would be obvious what going on,
    needs to be kept within certain individuals to create this illusion that clean
    until bubble bursts . and obviously would need a organised programme channeling every youth in any country
    to find that many sprinters and starting as young as possible .cant all be athletes ,
    and not an exact science still need a fast youth sprinter to begin with and had that
    in kiryu ,running in 10.6-10.7 range .
    and that is where japan really does have strength and depth in young sprinters
    compared to average european country ,has maybe 10 ,20,30 other individuals
    that in 11-10.7 range due to things like interest levels ,participation ,population .
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2013
  10. Francois the Postman

    Francois the Postman Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    47
    Builds mean very little.

    Pietro Mennea admitted that he had used HgH during his career & he was built like an 1500m runner.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2013
  11. harold

    harold Guru

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    129
    i have tolerated you for long enough franny ya faaanny ,
    obvious troll but there you have it .

    hgh did nothing for him .
    mennea was dirty as others of era but still and always a legend ....
     
  12. jacknyc

    jacknyc Master

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    3,195
    I find this theory very improbable as it relates to YoshihideKiryu.... that somehow as a 15 yr old, he was 'chosen' and put on a very advanced PEDs program.
    If this were true, then I would still think that there would be many others who meet your necessary criteria for effective PED use - having high androgenicity kicking in at late teens, knowledge and sourcing of the right drugs, etc - to get down to 10 flat.
    Wouldn't Europe have several, if not many, 10 flat sprinters in that case?

    Also as far as I know Japan has no history of 'doping'.
    Russia yes, Turkey yes, USA yes, China yes, Bulgaria yes, Jamaica yes. But I am not aware of any doping issues with Japanese athletes.

    I do agree that PEDs are very prevalent in track.
    But I do not see any 'evidence' of this with Kiryu, and I don't find your argument very plausible or convincing.
    It is possible, but I don't think so.

    We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
     
  13. albinosprint

    albinosprint Mentor

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,073
    Location:
    New York
    I agree, there's no way a 15yr old Japanese kid is on a PED's program.
     
  14. Francois the Postman

    Francois the Postman Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    47
    Kiryu record in jeopardy.


    inShare
    May 16, 2013
    Jiji-Japan News
    Kyoto high schooler Yoshihide Kiryu may not be credited with tying the world junior record in the men's 100 meters because the Hiroshima meet where he clocked 10.01 seconds was not equipped with the proper wind gauge, it was learned Wednesday.

    Edion Stadium, venue for the Mikio Oda Memorial Meet on April 29, did not have an ultrasonic wind gauge, which is specified in the IAAF rules as necessary for ratifying records.

    Kiryu ran 10.01 with a 0.9 mps tailwind, well below the allowable 2.0 mps. Regardless of whether the IAAF ratifies it as a record or not, Kiryu will still be credited with having run 10.01--second on the all-time Japan list--and will keep his place in the world rankings.

    The Japan athletics federation is expected to apply to the IAAF to ratify the 17-year-old's record anyway, citing a lack of global usage of the ultrasonic wind gauge.

    Trinidad's Darrel Brown set the world junior record in 2003 and American Jeffery Demps tied it in 2008.
     
  15. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2006
    Messages:
    9,091
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7SKA6OCLBc&feature=youtu.be
    Something is up with a new fangled PED routine because two more Chinese runners ran sub 10.1X times and are knocking on the sub 10 door. If it was Japan doing this then the suspicion levels would be low, but China with it's history of PED abuse in the past and crazy propaganda and basic human rights abuses that still go on makes these times stink to high heaven. Just my two cents.....:tsk:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7SKA6OCLBc&feature=youtu.be
     
  16. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,373
    You beat me to it. No doubt about it. China has never had a guy run a sub 10 or even get that close. Now out of no where they have two guys on the verge of acheiving this goal. Then Japan is breaking records left and right. As much as I love to see stereotypes broken, I have to have some suspicion as to how quickly this is all happening.

    Then China also took 2 of the top 3 spots in the high jump. Where is this coming from? It makes you wonder. I hate it when we have to
    second guess performances but all sports now are rampant with many drug cheats.

    By the way. Gatlin looks as roided as he was a few years back. There is no way in my opinion that he is natural. Once a cheat, always a cheat. The only thing I will say is that most guys around the globe now what the jamaicans are doing so they are joining the party to try and beat them.
     
  17. Francois the Postman

    Francois the Postman Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    47
    3 Bingtian Su CHNCHN 10.06
    4 Calesio Newman USAUSA 10.08
    5 Peimeng Zhang CHNCHN 10.09

    Hmmmmmm. Those times don't really make me suspicious. 10.06 & 10.09 aren't that mind blowing TBH. Now if they had thrown in a couple of 9.90's, then I might be.

    I mean,
    Lemaitre has ran faster (he's doped too?) & someone like Bob Hayes was blowing that away back in the 60's on dirt tracks.

    Not much of a case being made for a PED program as of yet.

    Scary isn't it, Bolt can run 10.06 wearing wellies.

     
  18. Soccer&track

    Soccer&track Guru

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    131
    I am sure there is some kind of doping program going on in China, not sure about Japan....but in reality it doesn't matter unless they get caught(as far as DWFs are concerned). It is no surprise to me if China puts a guy under 10 seconds due to their sheer population numbers and the fact that the government often plays a large role in developing athletes. In their defense, I will say that most of these guys have turned in pretty fast times over the past couple years, and although they have clearly progressed this year, they haven't run video game times yet. That being said, I won't necessarily root for them, but if they run fast then good for them. I think we should focus on all the talent we have coming up instead of what the Asians are doing! We have some serious female and male sprinters coming. And I think we may see Tumi run a sub 10 this year and join Lemaitre!
     
  19. Soccer&track

    Soccer&track Guru

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    131
    Gatlin is so obviously on PEDs its comical. He is very bloated, years older and yet still running faster than he ever did when he was busted. I scratch my head wondering how anyone can take this guy seriously.
     
  20. jacknyc

    jacknyc Master

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    3,195
    Here is a list that I posted from February this year of the top 10 Asian sprinters of the last 10 years. This list doesn't include this year's times:

    1/ 10.03 Shingu Suetsugu - Japan
    2/ 10.07 Masashi Eriguchi - Japan
    3/ 10.07 Ryota Yamagata - Japan
    4/ 10.09 Nobuharu Asahara - Japan
    4/ 10.09 Naoki Tsukahara - Japan
    6/ 10.16 Bingtian Su - China
    7/ 10.17 Haijian Chen - China
    8/ 10.19 Yoshihide Kiryu - Japan
    9/ 10.20 Shinji Takahira - Japan
    10/ 10.21 Yi Lao - China
    10/ 10.21 Peimeng Zhang - China
    10/ 10.21 Shintaro Kimura - Japan
    10/ 10.21 Hiroyasu Tsuchie - Japan
    10/ 10.21 Yusuke Kotani - Japan

    You can see that Bingtian Su, Peimeng Zheng, and Yoshihide Kiryu were already on this list before this season.
    These guys haven't come out of nowhere, but are young sprinters who are progressing. We don't really follow these guys, so it's not surprising that we are startled when they run fast times.
    I would not be surprised if there is a PED program in China, but we also might be seeing the effects of the 2008 Olympics on their youth. China is a very nationalistic country, and the Olympics were a HUGE deal for them. Some of these young guys may have been inspired by that and by Liu Xiang the WR hurdler.
     
  21. Soccer&track

    Soccer&track Guru

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    131
    I agree completely. Japan has had guys running 10.1xs for a while now, and several appear to be progressing, which isn't all that shocking to me. If they keep up these 10.0x runs there will surely be a sub 10 Asian this summer. All the more reason for us whites to pick it up and start dominating! With the worlds in Russia, maybe some new faces will pop up in the next few years.
     
  22. Keyser Soze

    Keyser Soze Guru

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    101
    Location:
    Europe
    Don't know about he Japanese but China is Undisputably the new East Germany/USSR as I pointed earlier.

    In fact in the early 1990s China hired East German coaches for their Olympic teams and especially their swimming team.

    We all know what happened to the chinese swimming team throughout the 90s ;) And you don't what me to start about their ridiculous weightlifting team ...

    101% State doping system + slave athletes = more gold metals

    Ofcourse their getting better in hiding their tracks... it's normal and logic.
     
  23. harold

    harold Guru

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    129
    how many times do i have to say ,
    that it is all due to sarms ,sarms and more sarms .

    AND OF COURSE A YOUNGER ATHLETE CAN TAKE CERTAIN SARMS
    AND THIS IS THE REALITY .as i can see it there before me .

    two obvious points are the consistancy that it gives and with some athletes the speed endurance .
    and why arent they doing the exact same with female sprinters ,in china cant say just a societal occurrence,as in belong in home .

    like during steroid era when focused mainly on women in certain events as where more gains to be had.
    simply due to, that it is harder and alot less performance enhancing with women
    for obvious reasons .i.e females will have alot less androgen receptors from get go ,
    and can even state that certain races have less androgen receptors and activity at them .
    why arent the female sprinting records being broken for example.


    soccer and track
    said list proves nada!!!
    as stated with sarms not some fairy dust
    still need a fast athlete and still do all the right things
    in training and out . only enhance so much .especially if already into mid twenties .
    both chinese guys are far from young
    and peimeng can see alot more obviously
    as stalled in career for many years in the 10.20,s
    and that was his natural peak .
     
  24. harold

    harold Guru

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    129
    the reality of modern sprinting is sarms ,
    and the reality is that asian going sub ten will happen this summer.
    due to this fact . just the way sprinting is at moment nothing can do .
    most likely being su bingting .
     
  25. jacknyc

    jacknyc Master

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    3,195
    The IAAF website says that Zheng just turned 26, while Su is 22 yrs old.
     

Share This Page