Black QBs in the NFL

Discussion in 'NFL' started by Woody, Mar 19, 2012.

  1. dwid

    dwid Hall of Famer

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    well like you said making the position easier just makes it easier for White quarterbacks. As for basketball on grass, I am glad that happened, as it opened the door for White receivers, although they play in the slot most of the time, they are still getting to showcase their ablities and start. I consider Leach one of the first pioneers of this although he kind of learned from Hal Mumme (the guy who was coaching when Tim Couch put up big numbers in the SEC), and not sure who came from the Leach tree and who came from the Mumme tree. Without Leach we would have no Welker, Amendola etc, and then Welker opened up the door for White receivers in general.

    Before Bellicheck sent down McDaniels to learn more about Urban Meyer's offense (Bellicheck likes to stay in touch with all new things) the Patriots didn't run 3 to 5 receiver sets (basically spread offense) 70 percent of the time like they do now.

    Whites will always prevail at the qb situation, the only thing helping guys like Rg3 and Kapernick is running ability, when that is gone in like 3 to 5 years, or better yet once the running is contained, they will not be able to play at the same level.

    We have some athletic qbs in the league, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees is great at moving around in the pocket, even Brady (despite ppl suggesting he is a statue). The newer guys like Ryan Tannehill, Jake Locker and Christian Ponder can all run too, why aren't they allowed to run the spread option? I know Tannehill and Locker ran it in college. I don't think Wilson ever ran it in college. People say well Locker is injury prone, well he is injury prone staying in the pocket as well, so hopefully he can stay healthy no matter what.

    If you think about it, Rob Ryan was a great d coordinator and the Saints got lucky. However, the Cowboys made a brilliant move, I am sure they were aware that Chip Kelly was going to bring in some spread option stuff, plus they have Rg3 doing the same thing for Washington. Thats 4 games a season.

    Montee Kiffin was the first I ever saw come up with the scheme to stop it, I don't know if he was the guy that came up with scrape exchange for stopping the basic zone read but he shut down the read option against Florida. The problem was in that game is that Tebow just lined up in power formations and ran like a regular halfback, there were so many 3rd and 3's that they just could not stop Tebow from converting. He said Tebow was simply not human. If that had been Rg3 or any quotback back there Tennesee wins easily.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  2. Leonardfan

    Leonardfan Hall of Famer

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    dwid - I do agree with you that whites are better at the QB position and with the changes in the rules they are playing even better but that doesn't really deal with the numbers game - more and more quotabacks are going to be drafted and be given chance after chance to be starters in the league. The media and all the talking heads are really behind this new push for the "revolutionizing" of the QB position. Griffin was the talk of the league all year - Luck played second fiddle to him although his performance was much more impressive.

    It is just a mindset that is being put into the head of the casual DWF that is now being built up that somehow blacks are better QBs.
     
  3. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    Good post. We do have some good runners at quarterback as you mentioned, but the best white runners were always moved to other positions or shut out completely.. Locker, Tebow, and and Ponder are all great athletes but don't compare to guys like Scott Frost, Eric Crouch, and Matt Jones who were even faster and athletic. Any one of those three could have run for thousand yards just like Vick did one season but that would open up too many eyes.

    The fact remains were are looking at 8, possibly even 9 starting quotabacks next season. That has to be an all time high.
     
  4. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    Jackson couldn't learn the play book last season. The competition for the starting job should be minimal unless Fitz looks terrible in the pre season. How does a guy who can't learn the play book even make a roster? It's not like Jackson is some great talent or even a spot starter level player he is TERRIBLE!
     
  5. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    I count Newton, Vick, Kaepernick, Wilson, Freeman, and Griffin if he's healthy enough to start next season. Who am I missing?
     
  6. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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  7. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    Vick is no lock to start all or even most of the season, neither is Freeman. Griffin might not play due to injury. Jackson is highly unlikely to win the starting job in Buffalo. Wilson, Kaepernick and Newton are the only three sure things. No need to make it seem worse than it is. The media loves to periodically predict a black takeover at QB, but they've been wrong every time before and odds are they'll be wrong again with the current crop of great black hopes.
     
  8. foreverfree

    foreverfree Mentor

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    Uh, just what is a slot receiver? And where on the field is the "slot"? And why is it derogatory to be a slot receiver? John
     
  9. dwid

    dwid Hall of Famer

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    the simplest way to put it is that they line up between the two outside receivers. If a tight end is split out side it usually means he is technically slot receiver, Dallas Clark did this a lot.

    They get less respect because they tend to ago against linebackers and safties, or find the soft spots in zone coverage

    However, since teams have moved to more 3 and 4 receiver sets they will use a nickelback, which is basically a corner. However, guys like Welker, teams throw all kinds of combinations against him and nothing works. Revis couldn't stop him. The same with Gronkowski and other elite guys who line up in the slot, even above average guys they will direct more attention to, so its not really like it was in the older days. You might find a mismatch sometimes like a linebacker matched up with Welker and Brady will take that every time.

    I think this has been partially the reason for more White safties in the league, they usually line up as a nickelback, I have seen it with Eric Smith and Julian Edelman, there they were lined up as corners so technically you can say there have been White corners, even if it was in rotation. Some black corners simply can't cover the slot, they are used to using the sideline as a boundary, with all of that space in the middle they get lost.

    The slot guy used to be the guy who just went across the middle of the field to get the first down on 3rd down on some simple route. Now guys like Welker are running more plays that a rb would like screens etc where yac are important, he gets a lot of passes 5 yards or less and he has to make people miss just like a rb and get yac. Guys like Gronkowski use more of their physicalness to get open and yards after the catch.

    Now they don't have to always line up in the slot, in two receiver sets Welker is lined up as the outside receiver. I even saw David Thomas and Jeremy Shockey lined up as two outside receivers on one play.

    The main thing is that a White guy is dominating the position, so it won't get any respect. When Victor Cruz had his big year not much was said about him being a slot receiver. The same with Randall Cobb and Percy Harvin, those are the two that can even come close to getting the same percentage of yards after the catch like Welker, who has gained 4,000 yards after the catch, all by himself, still no credit. Now if we can only get more White guys being featured like Welker where the offense runs through them then it would be great. Jordy Nelson is not a slot receiver although they have had him lined up there before. Same with Decker and Brian Hartline. Shipley was a slot receiver, and thats what he played in college as well. Collie was forced into the slot position but didn't play it in college. Amendola is also a slot receiver but could play both. Kevin Walter is an outside receiver but they seem to use him more as a blocker in the run game and don't focus too many passes his way, its usually either Andre Johnson or one of the many tight ends they have. Speaking of which, teams are starting to move outside recievers around, Ive seen Calvin Johnson line up in the slot.

    Even with the rise of White receivers its also been the excuse to flood the league with undersized blacks. People always say Welker is small at 5'9 but Andrew Hawkins, the slot receiver for the Bengals gets a ton of hype and size is rarely mentioned, he is 5'7, Dexter McCluster is another small guy with not that much ability. Hopefully guys like Devon Wylie, the guy for the Cowboys, can't remember his name right now get more chances.


    I like to think of slot receviers like Welker as hybrid wide recevier/runningback, because its kind of blended in, everything except take handoffs, and I think Welker would excel at that. Look at Percy Harvin he played in the slot and was a rb for Florida and now he primarily plays the slot. He usually gets handoffs when Peterson is not healthy so Gerhat doesn't get the 20 carries he deserves. Ryan Swope is another guy, when watching the top backs coming out I thought he was right up there with Burkhead and Wegher, but he got moved to the slot and has exceled there, and is where he will play in the NFL, so the comparisons to Welker make sense.


    As far as black quarterbacks, yes they keep force feeding them into the NFL, but eventually fans will take notice once the read option is stopped. I mean people started questioning what the deal with Jason Campbell was, the guy got 5 years and did nothing with it. Same with Garrard, people started realizing he wasn't a legit franchise qb, he is a guy that can maybe come in a few games if needed. This time around is different from the last time they were going to "revolutionize the game", internet has become a much bigger tool of communicating and allows people from all over to. Team message boards weren't this big 10 years ago, not even close. The most you heard about sports was on ESPN or the local sports channel. You ask people 10 years ago at this point about Cam Newton and they would tell you he was great. Espn doesn't say anything negative about him, but talk to the average fan and they will tell you he isn't that good, he makes too many mistakes and chokes in the 2nd half. Of course there are still a few die hards that are calling it a sophomore slump but I don't know. Josh Freeman supposedly came out of his sophomore slump (which was actually his third year in the league) and looked better, but not close to what he showed that one season, hes completing under 60 percent and just not the same. Both have losing records. Next year will be his 5th and if he doesn't make it then he is what I thought he would be, an average qb, which for a black qb is pretty good.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  10. Leonardfan

    Leonardfan Hall of Famer

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  11. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    Also, we have to look at the next couple of drafts. Here is the top 10 quarterback prospect for the 2014 NFL draft from NFLdraftcout.


    [TABLE="class: data"]
    [TR="class: row1"]
    [TD="align: left"]A.J. McCarron[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: sort, align: center"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Alabama[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]rSr[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]6-2[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]212[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: row2"]
    [TD="align: left"]Logan Thomas[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: sort, align: center"]2[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Virginia Tech[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]rSr[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]6-6[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]258[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: row1"]
    [TD="align: left"]Aaron Murray[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: sort, align: center"]3[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Georgia[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]rSr[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]6-1[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]212[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: row2"]
    [TD="align: left"]Zach Mettenberger[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: sort, align: center"]4[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]LSU[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]rSr[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]6-5[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]230[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: row1"]
    [TD="align: left"]Tajh Boyd[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: sort, align: center"]5[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Clemson[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]rSr[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]6-1[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]225[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: row2"]
    [TD="align: left"]Derek Carr[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: sort, align: center"]6[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Fresno State[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]rSr[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]6-3[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]212[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: row1"]
    [TD="align: left"]David Fales[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: sort, align: center"]7[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]San Jose State[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Sr[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]6-3[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]220[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: row2"]
    [TD="align: left"]Tyler Russell[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: sort, align: center"]8[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Mississippi State[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]rSr[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]6-4[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]220[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: row1"]
    [TD="align: left"]Bryn Renner[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: sort, align: center"]9[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]North Carolina[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]rSr[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]6-3[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]215[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: row2"]
    [TD="align: left"]Devin Gardner[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: sort, align: center"]10[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Michigan[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Sr[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]6-4[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]203[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    That's four blacks in the top 10, Thomas, Boyd, Russell, and Gardner. They are already hyping this Teddy Bridgewater as the best quarterback in the 2015 class and possible number one pick if he comes out next year as well.
     
  12. Leonardfan

    Leonardfan Hall of Famer

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    Thomas was garbage this year - I don't think he really improves much next season - some team could pick him early but he will end up flopping. Should be a candidate to convert to TE moreso than Klein was this year.

    Russell and Gardner both have no business being on that list.

    Boyd and Bridgwater are going to be the two QBs they hype up next season.

    But yea the numbers are pretty troubling as the position becomes blacker in college it will inevitably become blacker in the NFL.

    They will do their best to rip McCarron as a game manager with mediocre physical skills and also try to tear Murray down due to his height "issues".

    Bryn Renner might be a pretty nice prospect for us going forward though - he is a real under the radar guy but has played really well. He plays in the ACC so he will have a chance to outshine both the midget boyd and the ogre thomas. I would't be surpsised if he ended up in the first round round conversation next year. He actually played some WR in HS - he isn't required to run at UNC but he should put his impressive athletic skills on display.

    Mettenberger needs to continue improving and have a huge year in order to warrant first round consideration. He was very streaky this season. Honestly he was somewhat of a disappointment to me but my expectations for him were probably to grandiose. Derek Carr put up huge numbers and has a huge arm. Fales is an under the radar guy but he throws a nice ball and is very accurate. We do have some potential for sure but the powers that be are doing their damndest to blacken the position.

    My bold prediction for next season is that Russell Wilson actually regresses. I think teams have enough tape on him to see what he does. I have seen him play enough to understand that much of his play is improvisational and he has some obvious tendencies that can be defended therefore minimizing his effectiveness. Also Kaepernick will fall back down to earth next year. Plenty of QBs have started their careers on a hot streak only to fall back to earth.

    It is glaringly obvious that the media continues this push and it is damn frustrating. Defensive coordinators now know that the pistol and read option need to be defended and will come up with schemes to limit how effective that type of offense is.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  13. MichSt

    MichSt Guest

    Also Chuckie Keeton. He might already be as good as those guys, and will probably declare early. Rakeem Cato's close behind.

    If Brett Hundley doesn't regress after his freshman season, he's gonna be the star of 2015.
     
  14. Leonardfan

    Leonardfan Hall of Famer

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    Cato sucks - I have seen both him and Keeton play. Each play in weaker conferences and are small for the position.

    The return of Casey Pachall should be a 1st rounder as long as he keeps his head on straight.
     
  15. Leonardfan

    Leonardfan Hall of Famer

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    Sounds like the Raiders are going to allow Pryor to compete for the starting position and Manuel and Smith will both be bumped up into the first round bring the total QBs that will be projected starters to 10 - a huge jump up. This league is getting blacker and blacker.
     
  16. Freethinker

    Freethinker Hall of Famer

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    I couldn't help but think of Leonard fan when reading this:

    Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel's Bob McGinn was told by a scout that WVU QB Geno Smith compares to draft bust Akili Smith.


    Smith is largely viewed as one of the biggest draft busts in NFL history after being selected No. 3 overall by the Cincinnati Bengals in 1999. Geno Smith appears to have more talent than the bust, as he sees the field well enough and can throw the ball vertically with great ball placement.

    Of course, rotoworld adds (in blue) their 2 cents to go against what the scout says.
     
  17. dwid

    dwid Hall of Famer

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    Geno struggled with going through his progressions in a very simple offense. Dana Holgerson comes from the Leach coaching tree. Funny how Smith isn't getting the "system qb" label. Its not like he can run well or anything, he is a poorer version of the last guy that came out from Tech under Leach, not Harrell, he didn't have a strong arm but another guy, can't think of the name right now.

    Id say more Andre Ware than Akili Smith, Smith was bulkier.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  18. Truthteller

    Truthteller Mentor

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    A while back I posted about how the media made it sound like white quarterbacks would soon be extinct, back around 1999 and 2000:

    http://www.castefootball.us/forums/...QBs-in-the-NFL?p=266279&viewfull=1#post266279

    Why do I bring this up?

    I was checking out my local DWF board today and one of the idiot posters was hyping up some QB from Minnesota as a "potential surprise player"..."next Kapernick or Wilson"...blah, blah, blah.

    I don't watch a lot of college football, but I remember this particular Uncle Tom, because the Marxists kept showing his Korean wife and mixed-race, twin sons during a game I happened to watch for a minutes last season. Per my recollection, MarQueis Gray was moved to tight end as a senior, because he was so bad at quarterback during his entire college career. Now, all of a sudden, this dread-locked "Corn-ball Brotha" that couldn't play against the likes of Illinois and Indiana, is considered a legit "NFL prospect" at quarterback....in Jewish fantasy land:



    I'm not sure who this Pauline @sshole is, but this story is shades of Quincy Carter, all over again. Back in 2000 he was so darn unimpressive at Georgia, that I believe Bulldogs coaches suggested he leave early for the NFL, because they felt he might be relegated to being a backup as a senior (behind David Greene), if he stayed in school.

    So, logic would dictate if a guy can't start for his college team, he probably isn't much of an NFL prospect, right?

    Didn't happen...According to all the "experts" Carter was awesome in pre-draft workouts and flew up the draft charts at a rapid pace! Dallas had to trade up in round 2 to land Carter, because racist Denny Green (who already had 3 black QB's on his roster) made noise about drafting the scrub, because he was "too talented to pass up".

    We all now how history played out: Quincy Carter was beyond awful in Dallas and was soon gone.

    So, is history repeating itself? A guy that can't even start for his college team at QB, is suddenly a "hot prospect", according to some loser who never even played the game?
     
  19. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    All this love for the "potential" of black QBs after so many of them have flopped or otherwise failed to meet expectations, yet when Margus Hunt tears up the Combine like something out of a video game, I hear Warren Sapp refer to him as "Mike Mamula." Why not compare him to J.J. Watt? Or go back several years when all four of the starting defensive ends in the Pro Bowl were White. Only the black writer Jason Whitlock noticed it at the time other than Caste Football supporters. The DWFs still expect all defensive players to be black, and they now even expect most or all of the good quarterbacks to be black. And of course all White receivers no matter their size and playing style, all look like Wes Welker, and before that Ricky Proehl. It's so sad and pathetic, shows how easily the human mind can be twisted to believe anything when a false and alien ideology is enforced through technology that's used in a malevolent and totalitarian manner.
     
  20. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    I'm a bit worried with all these quotabacks, but like Don said, only three are definitely starters next season. Geno Smiff could be a huge hype train. Griffin probably won't last long, Vick is terrible but may still start thanks to Chocolate Chip Kelly, Freeman is on a serious decline, and Newton has been brought back down to earth.
     
  21. Leonardfan

    Leonardfan Hall of Famer

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    They are also hyping up Matt Scott who played in Bitch Rod's offense. He ran a 4.69 which is apparently good enough to be considered as a potential starter down the road in the NFL.

    The only saving grace is the depth of white QBs in the draft. Barkley really helped himself measuring in at 6'2 1/2. Most experts seem really down on him because he is a "pocket passer". This guy was considered a the potential first overall pick this year and in contention with Luck to go first last year. Glennon and Nassib are also guys that should go fairly early which is a good thing. Nassib reminds me alot of Dalton which is a good thing as Dalton is one of the best young qb's out there - better than Scam.

    Tyler Wilson should also be a 2nd/3rd rounder. Landry Jones was once considered a first round guy but the powers that be have knocked him down to a mid-round guy.

    Tyler Bray probably helped himself out the most - he should be a 2nd round pick after the combine. Just a big strong armed QB with alot of potential.
     
  22. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    I found this list of the ten "greatest" Black quartebacks almost laughable. After about number 3 the list almost drops off of a cliff.....:icon_lol:http://espn.go.com/espn/topics/_/page/black-history-month
     
  23. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    Washed up black QBs Vince Young, David Garrard, and even DuhMarcus Russell (who weighs over 300 pounds) are all currently trying to hook on with an NFL team. Garrard, who hasn't played in a regular season game since 2010, wants to sign with the Jets and believes he's good enough to replace Sanchez as the starter. Young is claiming that he's better than most of the starting QBs in the league. Of course all three of them are getting straight-faced media coverage.

    Never underestimate the overinflated black ego. I was watching an interview with Michael Robinson last night on NFL Network, and he made the claim that the NFL didn't know what to do with a quarterback of his skill set "8 or 10 years ago" so he was moved to fullback. First of all, Robinson did get opportunities at quarterback and was lousy. Secondly, he came along well after Randall Cunningham, Kordell Stewart, Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair, Michael Vick, etc., so his claim that he was somehow "ahead of his time" is incredibly delusional even for a black person.
     
  24. Leonardfan

    Leonardfan Hall of Famer

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    There is a real push by the media to get Palmer out of Oakland and hand the job over to Terell Pryor...what a joke.

    Like most other black QBs he will get his affirmative action shot at the position even though it is undeserved.
     
  25. Leonardfan

    Leonardfan Hall of Famer

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    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013

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