Claimjumper
Mentor
.
Good Investment
- Thread starter waterbed
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Quiet Speed
Mentor
Gold and silver took off to the upside today. For a while the moves were almost straight up. Some bad economic data along with more news dealing with the uncertainty of the European financial fiasco are believed to be the cause of the sudden surge. Some report this morning stated that a Fed bank member said QE3 may be necessary; that could be a factor.
Is this truly a breakout from the doldrums that the metals have been in for weeks? Could it be a head fake and a trap by the grand manipulators? We shall see.
Is this truly a breakout from the doldrums that the metals have been in for weeks? Could it be a head fake and a trap by the grand manipulators? We shall see.
King World News always has interesting perspectives on precious metals. Of course it's always the same handful of super-bullish fund managers and traders. Silver is still down about 33% since May, and the stock market is still down a lot since July, and way down from its all-time high in 2007. It's almost impossible to make money investing since Depression 2.0 began. Banks are paying 1% interest while credit cards are charging 30% and more. Nothing wrong with that picture at all. :kev:
Tom Iron
Mentor
Good morning Don,
I recommend putting money in Philip Morris stock (mo), and booze. Can't lose and most of them pay dividends.
Tom Iron...
I recommend putting money in Philip Morris stock (mo), and booze. Can't lose and most of them pay dividends.
Tom Iron...
Want some stimulus?
Go to missingmoney.com and check to see if there is some long-lost money that belongs to you, your family, your friends, your associates, and your old class/team mates. You are probably not on the list, but I can assure that someone in your network of friends and family ARE on the various lists. I've found well over $400 bucks so far for my family and I just started.
When you're done, forward this info to others so they can find their money as well.
Also check out HUD's list of unclaimed refunds. Just load the terms into a search engine and your off to the stimulus races.
The silver gurus said there was going to be increased volatility going forward in the gold/silver market which is happening. Yet, with all the paper games, more silver eagles were sold on October 1, 2011 (730,000 or so) than used to be sold in an entire month! Lindsey Williams just went public again and asserted the elite are buying precious metals by the ton. This guy is connected to former CEO's of major oil companies. Physical buying of big chunks of metal remains ongoing. Meanwhile, the mega crooks continue to double-down in the paper markets, hoping beyond hope they can stabilize the stock markets and stem the tide of physical buying. NOT GONNA HAPPEN, and I think they know it, too, deep down. I see a market EXPLOSION in the future. Can't give a date, but Lindsey's insider contact said the governments will continue to take on massive debt over the next year until the purchasing power of the federal reserve note drops to almost nothing. I'm taking Lindsey's word "to the bank."
Harvey Organ just mentioned that MF Global just went bust.
From what Harvey says, MF Global was a whale and led by Jon Corzine who is a former CEO of Goldman sucks (GS) and is connected to Obummer. MF Global did not want to admit that they commingled over 700 million dollars of client funds with their own trading money before going broke. Ha Ha! Crooks got caught and nothing will probably happen criminally. This, in turn, will piss of the masses just that much more.
Jim Willie of the Hat Trick letter recently wrote that powerful billionaires and other mega actors are taking down the crooks 1-by-1. I guess it was MF Global this week. Next week it's ...? Willie says his inside sources have told him that the trigger will eventually be pulled on JPM and GS by the very same bunch of rich and very angry actors. According to Willie, UBS was harpooned by this group and a cover story was used to tell the sheeple. In the process, UBS was stripped of its gold. Ha ha! Willie said the hunters are just waiting for the lumbering and bleeding GS and JPM to enter their financial crosshairs. We'll see.
Harvey Organ just mentioned that MF Global just went bust.
Jim Willie of the Hat Trick letter recently wrote that powerful billionaires and other mega actors are taking down the crooks 1-by-1. I guess it was MF Global this week. Next week it's ...? Willie says his inside sources have told him that the trigger will eventually be pulled on JPM and GS by the very same bunch of rich and very angry actors. According to Willie, UBS was harpooned by this group and a cover story was used to tell the sheeple. In the process, UBS was stripped of its gold. Ha ha! Willie said the hunters are just waiting for the lumbering and bleeding GS and JPM to enter their financial crosshairs. We'll see.
For the gold and silver experts here at CF I need advice. I am upper middle class with 250k in equity, and another 250k in a retirement account. I have 1800.00 to blow on fun and unforeseen expenses every month.
How much physical gold/silver should I aquire and where does one secure it? I look forward to you guys response.
How much physical gold/silver should I aquire and where does one secure it? I look forward to you guys response.
I have a family member that has an advanced degree in finance from a major state university. A family friend asked him several years ago what he should do with his money. He had 500K in a retirement account and was planning to retire in the next year or two. My family member said that he should take the 500K and put it all into the shiny gold stuff. Gold bullion was about 400 per oz or less at the time. The guy said he simply could not do THAT (probably because he was married). Family member told him, "Well, you eventually will lose it all, then." Flash forward several years later to the present, and the stock market and bond market have basically done nothing and gold has went from 400 to 1600+. If the guy had taken my family member's advice, he would be "set" right now, but I don't think he did.
I talk to my family ALOT about this subject, and he got in with both hands at ROCK BOTTOM (about $250 oz). I think his info to the guy with 500K would be the same today as it was several years ago, including the blurb about LOSING IT ALL if he remained in the traditional, "safe" investments like stocks and bonds, especially bonds issued by government.
As mentioned above in another post, Lindsey Williams just went public again, and his oil boy sources told him that folks with paper portfolios would lose it all by the end of 2012.
If my family member was standing in your shoes, he would sell the house and put ALL THE PROCEEDS into gold bullion coins, preferably issued by the U.S. gov't. As an alternative, he might get a 2nd loan on the house and use the money to buy shiny. That way he would not even have to try and sell the damn thing in this lousy market. He would use some of the $1800 extra to pay the 2nd mortgage. The current equity will likely be lost in the future any way. Housing prices will likely go to the CASH price since mortgages will go away. He would surely take the 250k in the retirement account and put it all into metal, even if there is a stiff penalty and taxes. Better to get something rather than nothing. Read about Argentina and how the politicians RAIDED the citizens' retirement accounts. The poor Argentinian citizens had their retirement nest eggs RAPED by the gov't. Same thing is likely to happen here. I get max loans on my retirement account and buy the shiny. Could be an option for you. Take the rest of the monthly money, if any, and buy bullion. There are a lot of good metals dealers out there such as APMEX. com. You may have a local dealer, but compare their prices to APMEX. If you have low interest rate credit cards, you could get a cash advance on them and stock up on gold/silver and use the $1800 to pay them off over time. I would not do it but it could be an option.
For storage, don't put the coins in a safety deposit box. The banksters and BIGGOV will likely steal it. Israel Friedman, "Izzy," recommends that people hide the coins in "hidey holes." You'll have to figure out where to put the stuff. If you insist on paper silver and gold, check out Sprott's silver and gold trusts or Central Fund of Canada (CEF). However, these look like big, juicy targets for a desperate gov't to me. You can also buy silver and gold mining stocks, and if you insist, you may want to consider the ETFs for the silver and gold miners, GDX, GDXJ and SIL. I've been told that John Doody has an excellent gold stock picking newsletter as well. Before buying any paper silver, you may want to read all the posts in this thread. Silver and gold stocks are highly volatile.
Gold is a much more traditional investment and is seen by more folks as an alternative to paper money than silver. Silver is more volatile than gold and tends to go up and down more than gold. Perhaps 80% gold and 20% silver if you are planning to retire in the near future. If you can stand the volatility, maybe put more into silver. My family member has the vast majority of the money in gold.
At this point, I would not look at putting the funds into gold and silver as an investment. Instead, I would look at it as buying insurance to protect the purchasing power of your savings. Dollar denominated assets that have "Federal Reserve Note" at the top of them look like they will continue to be devalued at this time, and Lindsey says this will accelerate in 2012.
However, I would not put ANY money into gold and silver without thoroughly investigating the fundamentals of this type of investment. You'll need this info to stick with it when there are take downs. Gold and silver are highly manipulated by the BOYZ. They love to take the non-believing momentum guys' money on a regular basis.
Please do not take the above information as "investment advice." I wrote the above solely for educational/amusement purposes and you really need to see an "Investment Professional" prior to making any type of investment decision. :smiley: You know, the ones who are married to the current financial system and pitch the "asset allocation" method, etc. I'm pretty sure they will strongly advise you to NOT purchase ANY gold or silver related assets and stick with U.S. gov't bonds if you wish to "play it safe."
You might also want to read, "The Great Supercycle" by David Skarica. Good book in my opinion.
werewolf
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- May 6, 2011
- Messages
- 5,995
Gold has been doing great, but it doesn't always go straight up. The gold market is manipulated too. If you bought it at its peak in 1980 when all the hustlers were trying to sell gold guaranteeing it would soon be going up to the stratosphere you wouldn't have been able to even recoup your original investment for 27 years.
Colonel_Reb
Hall of Famer
You've already received some good advice about gold and silver. I do believe that in a SHTF scenario, 90% silver pre-1964 U.S. coins will be very useful, so you might want to keep that in mind. Of course, a donation to CF is always a great investment! I have to add that it would be cool to have that much extra dough every month.
Real gem of an article here:
http://www.jsmineset.com/2011/11/14...d-symposium-14-15-november-2011-by-alf-field/
It's been really difficult riding this gold bull as the goal of the bull is to buck you off. You need faith, and Alf definitely has helped me keep the faith with his inspirational speech.
I'm keeping the article for the rest of this bull.
Hope you like it as well.
Btw, Jim Sinclair of JSMINESET maintains a FREE website to help us bulls out. He nailed the last bull top to almost the exact dollar (about $850.00 per ounce) in the 1970's by using a certain formula. If you use his formula for the current bull, we're looking at 5 digit gold based on the CURRENT situation, external debt, current official gold holdings, etc.
Semper Fi.
http://www.jsmineset.com/2011/11/14...d-symposium-14-15-november-2011-by-alf-field/
It's been really difficult riding this gold bull as the goal of the bull is to buck you off. You need faith, and Alf definitely has helped me keep the faith with his inspirational speech.
I'm keeping the article for the rest of this bull.
Hope you like it as well.
Btw, Jim Sinclair of JSMINESET maintains a FREE website to help us bulls out. He nailed the last bull top to almost the exact dollar (about $850.00 per ounce) in the 1970's by using a certain formula. If you use his formula for the current bull, we're looking at 5 digit gold based on the CURRENT situation, external debt, current official gold holdings, etc.
Semper Fi.
Col Reb, I have donated to CF and more will be forthcoming. FYI, I live a very frugile lifestyle. Ca is very expensive to live in comfortably, especially Southern Ca. Reb, the money that is not squandered is saved. I did not mean to pontificate.
waterbed
Mentor
scaring people off
the reoson golden sachs manipulate the silver market is it brings money.
But what is the primair reson the go aprupt changing from buying to going short( get the lowering in price profit).
Becuase they want as least as possible people to go in the silver business.
becuase they invest with leverage.this means that with 2 billon and a leverage of 5 you can buy sell 10 billion.
The less people in the silver market becuase they are scared of the huge unpreditable movement of the price to higher the leaverage you can do without it being unsafe.with 5 lerage you can profit 5 times as much but also when it is 20% *5 lower( slighly less becuase where you do it takes a slight margin) you have lost it all.From the grap it looks like the '99%'( 99.95% or so) is only is responsible for only 15% of the movement of silver, form the little waves in graphs made by the 99% and the big crazy vertical waves it looks like the real price, when people will buy bthe silver till there is no left and golden sachs going to new bubble becuase they want to keep the biggest margings and that they do where few of the 99% is so they can leverage very big, the troy ounce price wll go to 190 dollar an ounce or so.some say co2 will be on the stock market soon in 10 years or so and will be the next banks toy.And the companys get killed.but if we write that we know what they are doing everywhere the non ex bank politicans will wake up some day maybe and stop the co2 to stock market with emiison rights and the strict use of co2 then.
the reoson golden sachs manipulate the silver market is it brings money.
But what is the primair reson the go aprupt changing from buying to going short( get the lowering in price profit).
Becuase they want as least as possible people to go in the silver business.
becuase they invest with leverage.this means that with 2 billon and a leverage of 5 you can buy sell 10 billion.
The less people in the silver market becuase they are scared of the huge unpreditable movement of the price to higher the leaverage you can do without it being unsafe.with 5 lerage you can profit 5 times as much but also when it is 20% *5 lower( slighly less becuase where you do it takes a slight margin) you have lost it all.From the grap it looks like the '99%'( 99.95% or so) is only is responsible for only 15% of the movement of silver, form the little waves in graphs made by the 99% and the big crazy vertical waves it looks like the real price, when people will buy bthe silver till there is no left and golden sachs going to new bubble becuase they want to keep the biggest margings and that they do where few of the 99% is so they can leverage very big, the troy ounce price wll go to 190 dollar an ounce or so.some say co2 will be on the stock market soon in 10 years or so and will be the next banks toy.And the companys get killed.but if we write that we know what they are doing everywhere the non ex bank politicans will wake up some day maybe and stop the co2 to stock market with emiison rights and the strict use of co2 then.
Mark Dice trys to sell a 1 ounce gold coin (worth about $1,550) for $25; none of the DWFs are interested.
http://www.silverdoctors.com/mark-dice-fails-to-sell-1oz-gold-coin-for-25-again/
http://www.silverdoctors.com/mark-dice-fails-to-sell-1oz-gold-coin-for-25-again/
Highlander
Mentor
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2009
- Messages
- 1,778
Shows how deeply entrenched Americans are in the Matrix. They aren't even aware of (roughly) how much an ounce of gold is worth. Stunningly brainwashed populace.
There is little hope, I'm afraid.
The funny (really, sad) thing is that these people have an air of uppityness and arrogance to them, as if the guy offering them this fantastic deal is the idiot. The first woman he asks says "nice try", which is what she probably also says to every "average" (beneath her) guy that asks her out on a date; as if she's some untouchable princess know-it-all.
That's "empowerment" for ya.
Colonel_Reb
Hall of Famer
You are right, Highlander. These people are the personification of arrogant ignorance. I'm passing that clip along.
Quiet Speed
Mentor
Who knows where the price of gold or silver will be in a year or two? If the Bernanke dollars (funny money) keep being rolled into the system, and interests rates remain low and real interest rates remain negative, you would think the price of precious metals would rise. But it seems to be effectively capped for the time being. Anyway, Dan Norcini looks at Goldman Sach's recent reports. One says gold will point downward in the following year and another that says QE4 is to be expected.
Goldman Sach's Right Hand does not Know what its Left Hand is Doing
Goldman Sach's Right Hand does not Know what its Left Hand is Doing
FootballDad
Hall of Famer
Considering the insipid ignorance of the general populace in regards to gold and silver value, perhaps it would be far better to instead invest in alcohol. Buy a few cases of Jack Daniels or whatever is the preferred "flavor" in your region. It would/will be fantastic for bartering, as its value will multiply.
Mark Dice offers a free 1 ounce gold coin to anyone who can guess its value within 25%. Another great demonstration, as if any more were needed, of the amazing ignorance of Boobus Americanus.
http://www.silverdoctors.com/mark-dice-attempts-to-give-away-1oz-gold-maple-hilarity-ensues/
Freethinker
Hall of Famer
Dice does one or two of these "give aways" every year. He's yet to give away a coin.
Here's another one with silver dollars, and a European tourist eventually takes Dice up on his offer to sell it for 99 cents, but wants it as a souvenir without knowing its value.
http://www.silverdoctors.com/mark-d...in-front-of-coin-shop-for-99-hilarity-ensues/
Colonel_Reb
Hall of Famer
The manipulation is still there, but there is something to be said for the fact that silver is still $30 an ounce.
Quiet Speed
Mentor
Can't say how this effects the price of gold. At least foreign countries who have gold stored by the Federal Reserve can relax.
Get Ready for Some Major Disinformation about America's Gold
An audit of the gold held at the New York Federal Reserve has been completed and the disinformation campaign has started. Notice how LaTi reports the story:
LaTi goes on:
Here's more LaTi disinformation, which misdirects from the above important questions:
Then we have two more paragraphs of disinformation:
Touring the New York Fed
Every year tens of thousands of visitors from around the world visit the gold vault as part of a free, public tour of the New York Fed. This tour is designed to educate visitors about the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and Federal Reserve System. You can register for a tour here.
Bottom Line: The audit of the NY Fed gold will be used to deceive and give the impression that the gold supposedly held for American's has been audited.
source
Get Ready for Some Major Disinformation about America's Gold
An audit of the gold held at the New York Federal Reserve has been completed and the disinformation campaign has started. Notice how LaTi reports the story:
The U.S. government’s gold in New York is safe in a vault underneath Manhattan, and some of the precious metal there is purer than previously thought.
The problem with this is that the gold held at the New York Federal Reserve is not "The U.S. government’s gold." It is gold held, for the most part, by the Federal Reserve for foreign countries.
LaTi goes on:
That’s according to a first-ever audit conducted last year by the Treasury Department of U.S. gold on deposit at Federal Reserve banks in New York and elsewhere.
This is curious because it is the government conducting the audit. That's like having Bernie Madoff's brother auditing Bernie's customer accounts. Why wasn't an independent auditing firm brought in? And since the gold is held for countries like Germany, why didn't Germany and others who have gold on account get to pick the auditor?
Here's more LaTi disinformation, which misdirects from the above important questions:
As part of the audit, the Treasury tested a sample of the government’s 34,021 gold bars in the New York Fed’s vault five stories below Manhattan’s financial district, according to the inspector general’s office. Auditors drilled tiny holes into the bars to remove samples that were tested for fineness in a process called assaying.
In three of the 367 tests, the gold was more pure than Treasury records indicated, according to the Treasury's inspector general. As a result, the government notched up the value of its gold holdings by approximately 27 fine troy ounces – or about $43,500, based on gold’s market value Monday.
Then LaTi tells us this:
The audit of the Fed gold came after 2012 presidential contender and former U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) questioned the central bank's gold holdings. While he was in Congress, Paul questioned whether the New York Fed had loaned or otherwise encumbered U.S. gold in financial arrangements, and he advanced a bill that would have required a full assay and audit of the country’s gold reserves.
But Dr. Paul was most concerned about "the country’s gold reserves," which is different from what is held at the Fed. The country's gold reserves are held mostly at Fort Knox, which no one is allowed to see, much less audit.
Then we have two more paragraphs of disinformation:
The New York Fed holds 99.98% of the U.S.-owned gold bars and coins in the custody of the Federal Reserve. The rest of the gold is on display at Fed banks in cities such as Richmond, Kansas City and San Francisco.
As of Sept. 30, when the market price of gold was $1,776 an ounce, the Fed banks held $23.9 billion in U.S. gold. (Gold has since declined in value, and on Monday the precious metal was hovering around $1,610 an ounce.)
Unlike Fort Knox, the NY Fed gives tours of its vaults, so Americans can see the gold of other countries, but not US gold.
Bottom line: This audit was designed to confuse. Expect more stories about how the Treasury conducted and audit of US gold. Not true. Fort Knox gold, where America's gold supposedly sits, is off limits to all and has never been audited.
Again, the gold held at the New York Fed is mostly gold held for foreign countries. It does not belong to the Federal Reserve or the United States government. LaTi after misdirecting throughout the full story, ends with the limited truth: The vast majority of the country’s gold reserves is held elsewhere, in Fort Knox, West Point and Denver.
Of course, the full truth is this gold has never been audited and unlike the NY Fed, which provides tours, there are no tours of the Fort Knox gold.
Touring the New York Fed
Every year tens of thousands of visitors from around the world visit the gold vault as part of a free, public tour of the New York Fed. This tour is designed to educate visitors about the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and Federal Reserve System. You can register for a tour here.
Bottom Line: The audit of the NY Fed gold will be used to deceive and give the impression that the gold supposedly held for American's has been audited.
source
Quiet Speed
Mentor
Remember the old story about what Willy Sutton said when asked why he robbed banks? And he replied, “That’s where the money is.” The whole premise is 180 degrees now. One of these days someone will ask a bankster why he fleeced the people. He’ll reply, “That’s where the money was.”
Suppression of the precious metals is obviously part of the grand scheme and have been pushed back relentlessly. Gold and Silver miners shares have been taken to the woodshed in the process.
James McShirley Comments to Lemetropole Cafe - "Virtually every manipulation I follow is in the 90%+ category"
http://www.zerohedge.com/contribute...pole-cafe-virtually-every-manipulation-i-foll
Suppression of the precious metals is obviously part of the grand scheme and have been pushed back relentlessly. Gold and Silver miners shares have been taken to the woodshed in the process.
James McShirley Comments to Lemetropole Cafe - "Virtually every manipulation I follow is in the 90%+ category"
http://www.zerohedge.com/contribute...pole-cafe-virtually-every-manipulation-i-foll
