Wladimir Klitschko - Mariusz Wach, Nov 10, 2012
- Thread starter werewolf
- Start date
werewolf
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- May 6, 2011
- Messages
- 5,995
What was to "castespeak"? Both fighters were white. Those announcers annoyed me too. They said Wlad and Wach both looked soft. They said Wlad "is definitely a top ten" all time heavyweight now - behind their ******* "superheroes", of course. Top ten my foot. They are clearly 1 & 2.
But Wlad could have been in trouble if that one big punch of Wach landed earlier in the round!
Wach did everything he could and then some. Compare that with Haye's cowardly effort, spent mostly falling down on his knees, and culminating with him whining and showing off his ugly foot!
Last edited:
Gibbon
Guru
Good points Boxing Specialist2.
And any sort of statistical analysis of success in the ring versus "success" during the stare down would be fraught with problems. Point scoring a fight is subjective enough. Point scoring a stare down?
Then the black factor: A black may tend to be "larger" in these stare downs but I would contend that, in some instances, a careful reading can sift false bravado from genuine confidence. Vladimir's bravado in this particular stare down struck me as "credible". Wach's anxiety also struck me as "credible". Does it predict unequivocally the outcome of the fight? Obviously not.
I would also add generally that part of all of us may be inclined to pull for the guy who seems less like a c*cky, bully and more like the unassuming guy who laughs off the ritual or even feels uncomfortable with it, then methodically knocks the bully's teeth in.
Last edited:
whiteathlete33
Hall of Famer
Dan Raphael always has very positive things to say about the Klitschko brothers. Bruce Beck, who I actually like a lot and is very good, did say that the heavyweight division is weak but Raphael butted in and said there are a lot of up and coming fighters like Kubrat Pulev.
werewolf
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- May 6, 2011
- Messages
- 5,995
"Dont read a lot into body language at a staredown, it means nothing."
That's what I say too. Just stupid show biz schtick. If I was in that position I wouldn't even look at the other guy. If the tv guys insisted that I had to, I'd probably just try to make him laugh, like that old game we played when we were kids.
That's what I say too. Just stupid show biz schtick. If I was in that position I wouldn't even look at the other guy. If the tv guys insisted that I had to, I'd probably just try to make him laugh, like that old game we played when we were kids.
Gibbon
Guru
A perfect example of someone acting larger in a "stare down" was the famous, filmed instance of Haye accosting Vladimir on an escalator.
But come on, did anyone, for even the slightest second, find Haye's bravado, at any point between then and his eventual unilateral destruction in the ring, "credible"? And this is an instance that certainly wouldn't require a careful reading.
I think that's why some of us like the stare down. Who is bluffing, who is for real, who can just laugh off their opponent's threats, who is afraid?
It brings out the poker player and face reader in all of us.
Because as all of us concede, confidence is a massive factor in a fight. The question seems to be, can it be read with any sort of accuracy? The stare down exists so that fans can attempt to read the opponents. If it were a hundred percent obvious who the more confident of the opponents was then it would detract rather than add to the suspense, drama and "unknown" of an upcoming fight.
yes the stare down is a black thing. Intimidation is their biggest weapon (for most of them) and with the black supremacy myth it works quite a bit in all sports, more so at the lower levels. Behind the intimidation of a black person is usually a scared ****less little boy inside. But I say usually, from experience. Once you start winning they give up, but this is usually. I have fought many blacks growing up street fights and a local boxing gym, and this one time this guy wasn't kidding and I was confident before fighting him and I was seeing flashes of white every time he landed a punch. Oh well, you win some you lose some. Found out his mom just died of cancer and his dad was doing life in Angola.
Charles Martel
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
- Messages
- 8,484
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=caeI6HrGiqA
Video with the highlights of Wach-Klitschko.
Video with the highlights of Wach-Klitschko.
Charles Martel
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
- Messages
- 8,484
Good article here about the Klitchko-Wach fight.
http://www.boxinginsider.com/headli...ntinues-to-roll-dominates-tough-mariusz-wach/
And some interesting comments below, including those from boxing writer Phil Anselmo (former lead singer of Pantera and Alice in Chains).
http://www.boxinginsider.com/headli...ntinues-to-roll-dominates-tough-mariusz-wach/
And some interesting comments below, including those from boxing writer Phil Anselmo (former lead singer of Pantera and Alice in Chains).
Gibbon
Guru
It's a tough sport and a tougher life, my friend.
white lightning
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2004
- Messages
- 21,462
Watching the Klitschkos fight brings out such great pride in all of us. I cannot remember anytime in my life where I have enjoyed watching any other fights even close to as much as I do with Wlad and Vitali. The two best fighters of all time. The only other fighter of recent years that was even close would be Joe Calazaghe. He was special too. Nothing like watching great white warriors dominate. Thanks for posting the video with hilites of the fight. I really enjoyed it and I will probably watch it many more times. Wlads next win will be incredible as it would be his 60th victory. Other than the fighters from 50+ years ago, I wonder how many heavyweights have won that many professional fight. What a incredible boxer! I wish it never had to end but I will enjoy each and every fight up until he retires. These guys are one of a kind and we are privlidged to be able to watch such greatness.
The Hock
Master
That brief rally at the end of the fifth probably gave Wach's (finally a Polish name not tricky to spell) corner a false hope. Without that maybe they don't let him come out for the 9th.
I've never seen Vlad go after a guy the way he did in the 8th. Wach's corner could have stepped in. Then again, what's someone else's damaged brain cells compared to a chance at an upset and millions down the road?
I've never seen Vlad go after a guy the way he did in the 8th. Wach's corner could have stepped in. Then again, what's someone else's damaged brain cells compared to a chance at an upset and millions down the road?
white is right
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2006
- Messages
- 10,163
I recall champagne bubbles when I got butted in football or horsing around with my friends...
werewolf
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- May 6, 2011
- Messages
- 5,995
Wach's Glove Was Missing Padding & Vitali Caught It
Here's video of Vitali in Wach's dressing room before the fight checking the gloves. Vitali finds that the right glove is missing padding near the knuckle area. The guys from the commission check it, agree and force Wach to get a new right glove.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_WNLP83ZiD8#!
Here's video of Vitali in Wach's dressing room before the fight checking the gloves. Vitali finds that the right glove is missing padding near the knuckle area. The guys from the commission check it, agree and force Wach to get a new right glove.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_WNLP83ZiD8#!
Gibbon
Guru
I recall champagne bubbles when I got butted in football or horsing around with my friends...
Yup, definitely weird when someone knocks against the off switch...haha.
The Hock
Master
And remember in the movie "Klitschko" Vitali is the one who figured out that the little piano recital Don King was giving them was on a self playing piano.
BoxingSpecialist2
Mentor
lol, Oh man, thats hilarious!
But honestly now, what a bunch of cheaters, they tried to pull a Margarito.
Gibbon
Guru
I think they were just being realistic...haha.
whiteathlete33
Hall of Famer
This doesn't look good for Wach. From Fightnews
[h=1]Bönte: Wach failed steroid test
[/h] [FONT=Arial Narrow, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT] By Przemek Garczarczyk
According to Bernd Bönte, manager of heavyweight champions Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko, Poland’s Mariusz Wach, Wladimir’s latest challenger, tested positive for anabolic steroids in their last fight, on November 10 in Hamburg. “The President of the Federation of German Professional Boxing Association (BDB), Thomas Putz has informed us about a positive Sample A,†Bönte told the German daily Bild. “That would also explain why Wach has survived all these big hits. Doping is of course is a no-go. It also shows how dangerous doping could be blocking pain.â€
Both Wach and his promoter Mariusz Kolodziej from Global Boxing are denying any steroid use before the fight. They have right to ask for the B Sample to be tested, but if both tests come back positive for anabolic steroids, Wach will be banned for one year from fights in Europe and there will be possible sanctions in the U.S.
December 3rd, 2012
[h=1]Bönte: Wach failed steroid test
[/h] [FONT=Arial Narrow, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT] By Przemek Garczarczyk
According to Bernd Bönte, manager of heavyweight champions Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko, Poland’s Mariusz Wach, Wladimir’s latest challenger, tested positive for anabolic steroids in their last fight, on November 10 in Hamburg. “The President of the Federation of German Professional Boxing Association (BDB), Thomas Putz has informed us about a positive Sample A,†Bönte told the German daily Bild. “That would also explain why Wach has survived all these big hits. Doping is of course is a no-go. It also shows how dangerous doping could be blocking pain.â€
Both Wach and his promoter Mariusz Kolodziej from Global Boxing are denying any steroid use before the fight. They have right to ask for the B Sample to be tested, but if both tests come back positive for anabolic steroids, Wach will be banned for one year from fights in Europe and there will be possible sanctions in the U.S.
December 3rd, 2012
Charles Martel
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
- Messages
- 8,484
I don't trust Wach's trainer. Remember how he was bashing Wladimir before the fight, ranting and raving?
The Hock
Master
I had watched a couple earlier Wach fights and felt he was just too skinny to take Vlad's power. Then he shows up for their fight much sturdier looking. I figured maybe he had just filled out, but looks like he had some help.
This little turn of events also adds a little perspective to Wach's suspicious boxing gloves that Vitali had questions about.
This little turn of events also adds a little perspective to Wach's suspicious boxing gloves that Vitali had questions about.
white is right
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2006
- Messages
- 10,163
It wouldn't shock me if he had anabolic help. Not this his body screamed roids ie Shannon Briggs or "Roid" Jones Jr at his lone heavyweight fight. I will have to look up who was Wach's strength and conditioning coach. That's the true villian in this story.
BoxingSpecialist2
Mentor
Wladimir Klitschko is pretty much my favourite boxer in the world, so I support him fully and I'm glad he won.
That being said, Mariusz Wach and his team are looking very shady when you put together these drug test results combined with the strange circumstances surrounding his gloves. I don't believe there was a preexisting problem with the gloves, in my view, his trainer probably tampered with it. It seems like he and his team cheated through all possible avenues to try and gain some sort of advantage to win the fight.
On the one hand, I can understand that. Wlad is a hell of a champion and as a pro athlete, Mariusz wants to win and will do everything he can to accomplish that. This was his titleshot so he wanted to do everything possible to win. On the other hand, cheating is wrong and he and his team should be punished for that.
In any case, this is no worse than the Negro Andre Berto who similarily also tested positive for PED's, or Hispanic Tony Margarito who was found guilty of tampering with gloves. Atleast Wach has the excuse that he was a CHALLENGER challenging for a title, these guys were champions who cheated. I believe both Berto and Margarito received 1 year suspensions, so at the absolute most, Wach should receive that same amount of time.
Predictably, it already seems like Wach is drawing the same amount of "heat" (if not more than) as Berto did for testing positive for PED's. That is truly biased when you consider that Berto is a much bigger name than Wach. In my view, Berto got off very lightly and without criticism for his positive test result.
People gave Berto a break and totally forgot about his positive test, so hopefully Mariusz can learn from this ordeal and remain clean in the future!
That being said, Mariusz Wach and his team are looking very shady when you put together these drug test results combined with the strange circumstances surrounding his gloves. I don't believe there was a preexisting problem with the gloves, in my view, his trainer probably tampered with it. It seems like he and his team cheated through all possible avenues to try and gain some sort of advantage to win the fight.
On the one hand, I can understand that. Wlad is a hell of a champion and as a pro athlete, Mariusz wants to win and will do everything he can to accomplish that. This was his titleshot so he wanted to do everything possible to win. On the other hand, cheating is wrong and he and his team should be punished for that.
In any case, this is no worse than the Negro Andre Berto who similarily also tested positive for PED's, or Hispanic Tony Margarito who was found guilty of tampering with gloves. Atleast Wach has the excuse that he was a CHALLENGER challenging for a title, these guys were champions who cheated. I believe both Berto and Margarito received 1 year suspensions, so at the absolute most, Wach should receive that same amount of time.
Predictably, it already seems like Wach is drawing the same amount of "heat" (if not more than) as Berto did for testing positive for PED's. That is truly biased when you consider that Berto is a much bigger name than Wach. In my view, Berto got off very lightly and without criticism for his positive test result.
People gave Berto a break and totally forgot about his positive test, so hopefully Mariusz can learn from this ordeal and remain clean in the future!