JordyNelsonFTW
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Would you rather have Calvin Johnson or Jordy Nelson?
Who would you rather have
- Thread starter JordyNelsonFTW
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Whats the point of these questions? what knowledge are you seeking?
As far as would I recruit blacks if it would help me win? well that implies that you couldn't win with Whites alone, and it would probably be much easier to recruit White talent since there is so many kids that dont get recruited. Meanwhile these little schools like lets say in the MAC, still recruit Florida while UF, FSU and Miami get the 3, 4 and 5 star guys (usually biased in favor of blacks by racist recruiting services) and then other top schools from the SEC get to some as well. Then you have smaller ones like UCF, FIU, FAU, USF, thats division 1 fbs alone. These other colleges somehow think that with blacks being 13 percent of the population in the usa, and only a little higher in florida at 16 percent, there will be enough black talent to go around? LOL, its no wonder some of these teams are bottom dwellers.
as far as jordy/johnson. I dont know if its playcalling, Stafford or Calvin Johnson whining for the ball, but he is targeted too much and it leads to turnovers. It was like that with Andre Johnson for a while, they never get anywhere as a TEAM. And the goal is to win the Superbowl. Jordy put up 1k with the least amount of targets for a 1k receiver that year. He also shined in the Superbowl. As much as people complain about lack of targets, ballhogs just dont seem to get as much success when it comes to winning/postseason. Sometimes it can happen even with rbs at least in recent years. I mean how many playoff games has Adrian Peterson been in let alone experienced a win? Im guessing maybe has to do with contracts and becoming too reliant on one person. Teams have moved away from feeding it to the rb though, back in the day it was common to have more with 350, sometimes even 400 carries (the guy for the chiefs, larry johnson i believe). Last year 314 was the highest, with 301 2nd highest.
imo Jordy could easily put up Calvin Johnson numbers, he isnt too far behind. Even though Calvin timed faster in the 40, Jordy looks to be faster on the field. Jordy would just need the same amount of targets. He had 30 less targets last year and had the same number of 20+ yard plays and only behind by a little over a hundred yards. Actually had 1 more catch than him but catches a few more shorter passes. The year before that CJ had an insane number of targets at 205 so lots of catches, but a measly 5 tds. I believe Jordy was injured that year, but the year before Jordy put up 1200+ yds 15 tds with 96 targets. Thats CJ's targets cut in half and then some.
As far as would I recruit blacks if it would help me win? well that implies that you couldn't win with Whites alone, and it would probably be much easier to recruit White talent since there is so many kids that dont get recruited. Meanwhile these little schools like lets say in the MAC, still recruit Florida while UF, FSU and Miami get the 3, 4 and 5 star guys (usually biased in favor of blacks by racist recruiting services) and then other top schools from the SEC get to some as well. Then you have smaller ones like UCF, FIU, FAU, USF, thats division 1 fbs alone. These other colleges somehow think that with blacks being 13 percent of the population in the usa, and only a little higher in florida at 16 percent, there will be enough black talent to go around? LOL, its no wonder some of these teams are bottom dwellers.
as far as jordy/johnson. I dont know if its playcalling, Stafford or Calvin Johnson whining for the ball, but he is targeted too much and it leads to turnovers. It was like that with Andre Johnson for a while, they never get anywhere as a TEAM. And the goal is to win the Superbowl. Jordy put up 1k with the least amount of targets for a 1k receiver that year. He also shined in the Superbowl. As much as people complain about lack of targets, ballhogs just dont seem to get as much success when it comes to winning/postseason. Sometimes it can happen even with rbs at least in recent years. I mean how many playoff games has Adrian Peterson been in let alone experienced a win? Im guessing maybe has to do with contracts and becoming too reliant on one person. Teams have moved away from feeding it to the rb though, back in the day it was common to have more with 350, sometimes even 400 carries (the guy for the chiefs, larry johnson i believe). Last year 314 was the highest, with 301 2nd highest.
imo Jordy could easily put up Calvin Johnson numbers, he isnt too far behind. Even though Calvin timed faster in the 40, Jordy looks to be faster on the field. Jordy would just need the same amount of targets. He had 30 less targets last year and had the same number of 20+ yard plays and only behind by a little over a hundred yards. Actually had 1 more catch than him but catches a few more shorter passes. The year before that CJ had an insane number of targets at 205 so lots of catches, but a measly 5 tds. I believe Jordy was injured that year, but the year before Jordy put up 1200+ yds 15 tds with 96 targets. Thats CJ's targets cut in half and then some.
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Extra Point
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This is a great idea for a thread! Let's compare white players with black players.
This thread will make lurkers who are reading it think. It will make them recognize that there are many good white players in the league and that many of them are underrated.
Extra Point
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Many in the sports media are proclaiming that Luke Kuechly is overrated. They cite black players that are allegedly better than Kuechly.
Pro Football Focus rates Kuechly's teammate Thomas Davis as being better than him. On their list of the top 101 players in the league they rate Davis at 52 and Kuechly at 80
DWFs on various message boards now parrot that Davis is better than Kuechly. "Kuechly's's not even the best linebacker on his own team!" they cry.
Last year Kuechly had 166 tackles and Davis had 123.
Who would you rather have on your team, Luke Kuechly or Thomas Davis?
Pro Football Focus rates Kuechly's teammate Thomas Davis as being better than him. On their list of the top 101 players in the league they rate Davis at 52 and Kuechly at 80
DWFs on various message boards now parrot that Davis is better than Kuechly. "Kuechly's's not even the best linebacker on his own team!" they cry.
Last year Kuechly had 166 tackles and Davis had 123.
Who would you rather have on your team, Luke Kuechly or Thomas Davis?
Statements like these would be more persuasive if they were backed up by article and message board links.
Extra Point
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well i did see a good point, why the hell wasnt Kiko Alonso selected DROY?
the positive thing is, most of those comments have more negative votes than positive.
I see mostly things about Lavonte David being better. dwfs say "stats aren't everything" then proceed to post someone elses stats.
Hes the first inside backer to win it since Brian Urlacher in 2005. The way I look at it, White guys barely get acknowledged. I dont think any White player not deserving is going to win an award. The statement about our stars usually goes like this "such and such is good BUT" almost always a but. "the blocking he gets is the best" as if no other tailback gets blocking. "he has a hof qb throwing to him" as if no other stud receiver had a hof caliber qb. "his defensive line is so good it frees him up" as if no other great linebackers have good play from their dline. Or they focus on the things they think the player cant do. Its because they hear these lies said over and over by the media and parroted on msg boards by dwfs who think they might sound intelligent if they just say what they heard.
L
Lew
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welcome back iconoclast
Awake in America
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Who would you rather have, Geno Smith or Kirk Cousins?
Who would you rather have, E.J. Manuel or Tim Tebow?
This could get to be fun!
Leonardfan
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Haha well played Awake in America. Of course the average DWF will pick the black 99% of the time.
DWF Upside
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If at first you don't succeed, just create another troll account with the responses you desire. I'm not sure how this cherry picked example proves your Marxist agenda but to each there own.
davidholly
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Calvin Johnson's cap hit is 2.2x Jordy Nelson's this year. Next year his cap hit will be 4.4x Jordy Nelson's. The year after that his cap hit will be 2.7x Jordy Nelson's.
Putting so much of your cap into a receiver is retarded. Sure Calvin Johnson is an amazing receiver but receiver is one of the easiest positions to judge in the NFL.
The caste system makes it extremely economical to give whites a chance, people like Belichick have realized this.
Putting so much of your cap into a receiver is retarded. Sure Calvin Johnson is an amazing receiver but receiver is one of the easiest positions to judge in the NFL.
The caste system makes it extremely economical to give whites a chance, people like Belichick have realized this.
I'd rather have Calvin Johnson because in the caste NFL he will be fed the ball on a continuing basis whether he is triple teamed or not. Meanwhile Aaron Rodgers treats Nelson like he was a vintage automobile and takes him out for a spin once in a while when the conditions are right. Just the racial politics of the position make Johnson a better bet, there are also many other black receivers with nowhere near the skills of Calvin Johnson or Jordy Nelson that get treated the same way.
Awake in America
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Would you rather have Patrick Chung or Harrison Smith?
Would you rather have Mark Ingram or Toby Gerhart?
Would you rather have Chris Conte or Darcel McBath?
Would you rather have Brandon Meriweather or Eric Weddle?
Would you rather have James Laurinaitis or Jerrod Mayo?
Would you rather have Ahmad Brooks or Ryan Kerrigan?
Would you rather have J.J. Watt or ....... pick one.
Would you rather have Luke Kuechly or ...... pick one.
Would you rather have Geno Smith or E.J. Manuel?
This IS fun!
Would you rather have Mark Ingram or Toby Gerhart?
Would you rather have Chris Conte or Darcel McBath?
Would you rather have Brandon Meriweather or Eric Weddle?
Would you rather have James Laurinaitis or Jerrod Mayo?
Would you rather have Ahmad Brooks or Ryan Kerrigan?
Would you rather have J.J. Watt or ....... pick one.
Would you rather have Luke Kuechly or ...... pick one.
Would you rather have Geno Smith or E.J. Manuel?
This IS fun!
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how does becoming reliant on one player throwing into triple coverage/force feeding help you win against tough teams? pretty silly to force it all the time when you have so many guys in single coverage risking turning it over. I mean how many playoff games has he won? If i was more concerned about breaking the single season receiving yard record I would get him other than that no
Here's a good article on it but puts the blame on the qb and coordinator. Like those guys wouldn't complain about less targets.
https://m.numberfire.com/nfl/news/2...arned-from-high-volume-wide-receivers-in-2013
"The Force Fed Failures
Before I get too far, allow me to explain that the above average NEP loss on incompletions for these top receivers is not an indictment on the receiver's ability. No one is going to argue that A.J. Green, Andre Johnson and Calvin Johnson are bad receivers, but rather that the way they're used in their respective offenses has led to an inefficient trend forming in their targets.
The fact that those three receivers were the ones who saw the biggest per-incompletion drop in NEP is more damning to their offensive coordinators and quarterbacks than it is to them as wideouts. Green and Calvin in particular are seen as two of the best receivers in recent history, and yet their offenses finished 11th and 12th respectively in Adjusted Passing NEP in 2013. Andre's Texans finished 30th within that metric.
So what can we learn from this? It varies from team to team.
In the case of the Texans, it was simply an issue of feeding Johnson too heavily, and not relying on other targets. Johnson saw 90 more looks than the next closest receiver (DeAndre Hopkins), and his NEP loss per incompletion was 12% worse than Hopkins'. The other targets in Houston were all somewhat average on a per-incompletion basis, which meant the disaster that was the Texans' passing attack mainly happened as a result of throwing to their best player.
For the Lions, it's a somewhat similar story. Calvin Johnson and fellow wideout Nate Burleson saw significantly worse average losses on targeted incompletions than did Kris Durham or any of the tight ends or backs that regularly featured in Detroit. Matt Stafford's overreliance on Megatron and the occasionally healthy Burleson was his downfall, as even missing on a target to the drop-happy Brandon Pettigrew didn't hurt the team as much as throwing to the best receiver in the league.
For the Bengals, the differences between downfield targets and short targets is even greater. A.J. Green's per-incompletion NEP loss rate paled in comparison to the NEP lost on the average missed throw to Marvin Jones, while Andy Dalton's misfired attempts in the direction of Gio Bernard, Jermaine Gresham and Mohamed Sanu came in well below average compared to the rest of the NFL's receivers. But over 250 of the team's targets went to Jones and Green, and the results were fairly catastrophic.
The common thread among all three teams is that not every target in the passing game saw poor per-incompletion averages. The average incomplete pass thrown to any receiver not named Green or Johnson across the three teams lost exactly one expected point, nearly the same as the three-year league average. So for these three teams in particular, force-feeding the best player at receiver wound up hurting more than it helped."
just saw this part hah
"hat the bad news is out of the way, it's time for some good news. There was one player who saw more than 140 targets in 2013 and stood out as having well below average NEP losses on the average incompletion. Julian Edelman led the highly-targeted receivers with the lowest average loss in NEP per incompletion. The average pass thrown to Edelman that didn't connect cost the Patriots over 0.3 expected points less than the average misfire to a receiver for any other team. Going back to 2010, three of the eight most efficient incompletion targets have been Patriots' possession receivers (Wes Welker in 2011 and 2012, and Edelman in 2013"
Of course routes run effect it but still pretty good
https://m.numberfire.com/nfl/news/2...arned-from-high-volume-wide-receivers-in-2013
"The Force Fed Failures
Before I get too far, allow me to explain that the above average NEP loss on incompletions for these top receivers is not an indictment on the receiver's ability. No one is going to argue that A.J. Green, Andre Johnson and Calvin Johnson are bad receivers, but rather that the way they're used in their respective offenses has led to an inefficient trend forming in their targets.
The fact that those three receivers were the ones who saw the biggest per-incompletion drop in NEP is more damning to their offensive coordinators and quarterbacks than it is to them as wideouts. Green and Calvin in particular are seen as two of the best receivers in recent history, and yet their offenses finished 11th and 12th respectively in Adjusted Passing NEP in 2013. Andre's Texans finished 30th within that metric.
So what can we learn from this? It varies from team to team.
In the case of the Texans, it was simply an issue of feeding Johnson too heavily, and not relying on other targets. Johnson saw 90 more looks than the next closest receiver (DeAndre Hopkins), and his NEP loss per incompletion was 12% worse than Hopkins'. The other targets in Houston were all somewhat average on a per-incompletion basis, which meant the disaster that was the Texans' passing attack mainly happened as a result of throwing to their best player.
For the Lions, it's a somewhat similar story. Calvin Johnson and fellow wideout Nate Burleson saw significantly worse average losses on targeted incompletions than did Kris Durham or any of the tight ends or backs that regularly featured in Detroit. Matt Stafford's overreliance on Megatron and the occasionally healthy Burleson was his downfall, as even missing on a target to the drop-happy Brandon Pettigrew didn't hurt the team as much as throwing to the best receiver in the league.
For the Bengals, the differences between downfield targets and short targets is even greater. A.J. Green's per-incompletion NEP loss rate paled in comparison to the NEP lost on the average missed throw to Marvin Jones, while Andy Dalton's misfired attempts in the direction of Gio Bernard, Jermaine Gresham and Mohamed Sanu came in well below average compared to the rest of the NFL's receivers. But over 250 of the team's targets went to Jones and Green, and the results were fairly catastrophic.
The common thread among all three teams is that not every target in the passing game saw poor per-incompletion averages. The average incomplete pass thrown to any receiver not named Green or Johnson across the three teams lost exactly one expected point, nearly the same as the three-year league average. So for these three teams in particular, force-feeding the best player at receiver wound up hurting more than it helped."
just saw this part hah
"hat the bad news is out of the way, it's time for some good news. There was one player who saw more than 140 targets in 2013 and stood out as having well below average NEP losses on the average incompletion. Julian Edelman led the highly-targeted receivers with the lowest average loss in NEP per incompletion. The average pass thrown to Edelman that didn't connect cost the Patriots over 0.3 expected points less than the average misfire to a receiver for any other team. Going back to 2010, three of the eight most efficient incompletion targets have been Patriots' possession receivers (Wes Welker in 2011 and 2012, and Edelman in 2013"
Of course routes run effect it but still pretty good
FootballDad
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Hey dwid, I believe that jax was commenting in regards to choosing one or the other for a fantasy team, which would favor the force-fed player. For an actual NFL franchise, your argument is valid.
Extra Point
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Good one.
Rice, of course, has just been released by the Ravens and suspended indefinitely by the league.
Extra Point
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Who would you rather have, Nick Foles or Robert Griffin?
Me, I'd take Foles.
Me, I'd take Foles.
PamelaOC
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Extra Point
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Who would you rather have, Mike Glennon or Geno Smith?
FootballDad
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Speaking as a DWF, Smith DEFINITELY has a much better upside, and a room-brightening smile to match! Like the commentator on CBS said, it's all because of the Jets DEFENSE that the Jets sucked today. Not because Smith isn't any good. Athletic QBs are the FUTURE of the position! Jeez, Extra Point, get with the program, whites need to be eliminated from the league so that we can see a pure game! Joe DFW.
Average American
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I don't think it's an unfair question..
As of Week 7: Nelson has 47 catches, 712 yards, 6 TDs
Johnson has 22 catches, 348 yards, 2 TDs (& is currently sidelined w/an injury)
Right now, I'd rather have Nelson.. Even before Johnson got injured, he had gone several weeks without a touchdown catch.
Wes Woodhead
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Nelson is clearly the best WR in the NFl. The only reason anybody would say otherwise is because they are anti White.