Week 9 2006

White Shogun

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I like Adam Archuleta. I think he's a good DB. Having said that..

In his six years in the league (80 games), AA has 393 tackles, 16 sacks, 3 INT and 1 TD against 18 passes defended.

Roy Williams, in his five years in the league (72 games), RW has 313 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 15 INT and 3 TD against 30 passes defended. In the last two years, RW has as many INT per season as AA has had in his entire career. You don't get 15 INT as a safety without being able to cover people.

By way of comparison, Rodney Harrison has 32 INT after 12 years in the league.

Roy Williams is a good cover guy, and a good strong safety. Edited by: White Shogun
 

lumsdenpower

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White Shogun said:
I like Adam Archuleta. I think he's a good DB. Having said that..

In his six years in the league (80 games), AA has 393 tackles, 16 sacks, 3 INT and 1 TD against 18 passes defended.

Roy Williams, in his five years in the league (72 games), RW has 313 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 15 INT and 3 TD against 30 passes defended. In the last two years, RW has as many INT per season as AA has had in his entire career. You don't get 15 INT as a safety without being able to cover people.

By way of comparison, Rodney Harrison has 32 TD after 12 years in the league.

Roy Williams is a good cover guy, and a good strong safety.
Rodney Harrison has 32TD
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you certainly mean INT
 

White Shogun

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backrow said:
yup, riding the pine behind 100 years old Vincent...

Yeah, Vincent is definitely old. They are playing him over Archuleta based on his by-gone glory days as a CB. But he did have 4 INT in '05 with Buffalo, the last year he played a full season.

But the 'Skins D is ranked 30th overall; they have only 2 INT through 9 games, tied with Houston for the lowest number of INT in the league. So looks like nobody on the 'Skins is working pass coverage, let alone Adam Archuleta.
 

White Shogun

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lumsdenpower said:
Rodney Harrison has 32TD you certainly mean INT

Oops!
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Right you are, sir! It's been corrected, thanks!
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Jimmy Chitwood

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Shogun, you are right that williams is a good strong safety. he's not a good cover guy, though. he reminds me of Brian Russell in that he reads receivers' routes very well when he plays deep, and then he breaks on the ball incredibly well when it is in the air. that leads to really big hits and frequent interceptions.

but neither do a very good job when locked up in man-to-man coverage. of course, Russell gets no love when he leads the league in INTs, but williams is considered to be "da man" with his stats. go figure.

just my two cents.
 

White Shogun

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Can you give me an example of a strong safety with what you consider good man-to-man coverage skills? How often are safeties supposed to cover receivers man-to-man?
Edited by: White Shogun
 

Jimmy Chitwood

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well, in today's NFL, free safeties and strong safeties are often forced to switch from their traditional roles. an example would be the Redskins, where despite being the strong safety, Archuleta was required to do more in coverage than sean taylor, who is the free safety. taylor plays usually plays closer to the line of scrimmage in run support, while Adam normally plays deeper, which is certainly not his strength.

in this scheme SS's aren't normally used to cover wideouts man-to-man unless something breaks down, but they are expected to cover tight ends and RBs out of the backfield or sometimes in the slot.

an example of a strong safety who is good in coverage would be Todd Johnson for the Bears, who traditionally would be considered a free safety. or, to pick a more noted black one, rodney harrison for the Patriots.

btw, not trying to start a squabble.
 

White Shogun

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Hey Jimmy,
Me, neither! :) It's just good to lay down a definition or an 'example' for a starting point when a conversation like this gets going.

You actually wrote what I was going to say, but left out; that safeties normally cover TE and RB out of the backfield, and aren't required to cover man-to-man that often. But I left it out because of the variety of defenses you see today, along with what you pointed out that free and strong safeties seem to switch roles, depending on the players and the defensive coordinator.

I used Rodney Harrison as an example in my first post about Roy Williams. Statistically, Harrison averages 1 INT for every 2.28 passes defensed; Williams 1 INT for every 2.0 passes defensed. I know you can't always judge a player by his stats ('cept Mike Vick
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) but I've watched a lot of Cowboy's games (because of geography,) and from what I've seen on the TeeVee, Williams is a good safety. I'm going to try and make sure to watch the rest of the Dallas games this season and see if I can spot the reason you guys don't think he can cover. Right now I'm of the opinion he is one of the best safeties in the league, but I'll withhold judgement and watch more closely for holes in his game.
 

backrow

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Grant Wistrom and Stuart Scweigert had good game on MNF... Stu had 8 tackles and Wistrom had 2 sacks
 
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Tyler Brayton certainly punished Stevens for getting in the face of his much smaller white collegue later on in the game.
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bigunreal

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First, on the Archuleta issue- the Redskins play one white guy on defense, and he is the only player to be benched due to their underwhelming performance thus far. I wonder why he stands out? Everything that is said negatively about Archuleta could be said about Sean Taylor. The big difference between them is that Archuleta is despised by the media (and white fans) because he is a white guy playing a black position. Also, Sean Taylor is a thug who has committed enough crimes to land any non-football playing citizen in prison, while Archuleta is apparently an upstanding citizen. It's easy to see which one born-again Christian "Saint" Joe Gibbs favors. There is such a double standard applied to the handful of white DBS who are allowed to play in the NFL. Going back to a couple of the last white CBs to be drafted high out of college, both ironically by the Redskins back in the 1980s, I can tell you first hand how unfairly they were treated by the idiotic fans and the lapdog media. Tory Nixon was never given a real chance to start at CB for the Redskins, and was quickly run out of town where he had a brief run as the 49ers' nickel back. He was a second round draft choice, I believe. The Redskins followed up by drafting Brian Davis in the 2nd round a few years later. I watched Davis play, and every time a receiver caught a pass against him, it was duly noted by the announcers and it didn't take long for the fans to start booing him whenever he was beaten in coverage. At that same time, the Redskins featured one of the absolute worst CBs of all time, the truly dreadful Barry Wilburn. This clown was beaten all the time, more consistently than Davis could even hope to surpass. Still, the media did not point out incessantly that he'd been beaten in coverage, and the fans certainly didn't boo him for it. Davis never got a real chance to start, and to my knowledge was the last highly drafted white CB out of college who wasn't converted to safety (not sure about Scott Case, but don't think he was drafted that high).
We all remember what Jason Sehorn went through. That guy was phenomenal for a few seasons, but every time he was beaten in coverage, the announcers would say "---- beat Jason Sehorn," or, at best, "Jason Sehorn on the coverage." This happened all the time, and it doesn't happen regularly to any black CB. If I remember correctly, Sehorn was at the top of those dreaded "overrated player" lists, the ones that always feature a disproportionate number of the few whites who play in the NFL.

On to my second point- I heard that obnoxious "Mike and Mike" on ESPN radio discussing the Tyler Braxton- Jeremy Stevens incident. They were calling it the most despicable thing they'd ever seen on a football field. Funny, just a few weeks back, that black behemoth Albert Haynesworth nearly killed a player by stomping on his face, a la Don King (few people realize that Don King killed a parapelegic years ago by STOMPING him to death- it's absolutely true). I have no doubt that "Greenie" and his buffoonish sidekick Golic consider Braxton's far less violent act a greater crime. I don't condone dirty play, but to single out one of the only white players in the game, for kneeing a well-padded opponent in the groin (not to mention one of the most odious players in the league, long time troublemaker and would-be criminal Jeremy Stevens), is unfair and ridiculous.
 

Don Wassall

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Stevens had a personal foul called on him earlier in the game after hitting Stuart Schweigert, thenhadthe run-in with Brayton, the Raiders' only other white starter on defense. Purely coincidence, I'm sure. It would be interesting to know what Stevens was saying to Schweigert and Brayton. I'm willing to bet it was racial in nature.


Brayton didn't respond in a very smart way, but at least he responded. I also liked the way Andrew Walter -- who looks like he could be quality starter on even a semi-decent team -- showed his disgust at the absolutely pathetic play of Oakland's offense.


Carson Palmer yelled at thug WR Chris Henry at the end of the Bengals-Ravensgame Sunday after Henry made no attempt whatsoever to catch a long pass from Palmer as the clock was winding down.We need morewhite players who aren't afraid to stand up for themselves, even if it's a kick to the crotch, over passive ones who "know their place."
 

bigunreal

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Oops- the name is obviously Brayton, not Braxton.
 

nhl411

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art shell apparently has come out as saying that stevens kicked brayton first so he should be punished jsut as badly
 

Don Wassall

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Shell's a racist -- he called Jeff George several anti-white slurs during a heated discussion they had the first time Shell coached the Raiders.


Shell looks clueless when they show him during games. He reminds me of Ray Rhodes during his disastrous season as the head coach of the Packers, completely out of his element. Shell was brought back as an affirmative action gesture by wizened old Al Davis, but mainly to keep the team's gangstas in line, a task at which he has failed miserably.
 

jared

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hmm, i don't know man, i just can't support a knee to the groin. i wish he would have just punched him in the stomach, i'd feel better about it then. stevens is garbage.
 

Colonel_Reb

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Art Shell was made fun of today by the SLC sports talk show hosts.
 
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